or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 113

post #3361 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

It should be, but it is not.


I guess the only option would be to use sub out for 24fps material or a bluray payer with 2 hdmi outputs, can u assign sub out to a device, Directv on main out with processing and sub out linked to bluray input with no processing ? Is this on all onkyo receivers and preamps? If so why are the likes of Home Theater mag and Widescreen review not catching this during their reviews?
post #3362 of 9477
No, you cannot assign sources to outputs. You used to be able to choose priority if 'Both' was selected in the menu, but this year they've done away with it. 'Main' will dominate if you have CEC enabled on your display.
post #3363 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuteboxe View Post

For some reason, pass through has stopped passing audio. The picture comes up just fine, but there is no volume. I haven't switched anything on the unit, not sure if my wife did by accident. Pass through is still set to the input I want too..anyone know what problem can be?
thought I'd try again. Still having same issue.
post #3364 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Yes, buy a Manratz wink.gif

I thought about buying a Marantz, but that Porthole design is butt ugly, so I went with the 818.
post #3365 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeOracle View Post

Hi everyone!
Just got my 818, hooked up everything and getting too excited to hear how it sounds.. the first question I have is.. I hooked up the front speakers with a pair of tower and then I have a pair of monitor speakers hooked up to the wide. When I play a music CD I can only hear sound coming from the front not wide together.
Can I have both Front and Wide speakers working together when listening to music?
Thanks for advice in advance!
Cheers

You need to run the Audyssey setup and it will find the wide speakers. You will then have 3 options to use them with; Audyssey DSX (PLII DSX), Neo X and THX NEO X.
post #3366 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LPCM and DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHS are essentially the same thing. One is not compressed and the other is compressed (losslessly).  To say there is a difference between them is like taking a Word document in its .doc form and one that has been compressed and is now in .zip form, and then saying when the .zip document is decompressed, the content of the Word document will be different. It won't.

If you are hearing differences in the mix, then something is wrong somewhere.

+1.

But I'll add this:
Depending on the AVR some treat LPCM as a digital direct signal (similar to 7.1 analog inputs) and therefore not provide any post processing.
This could explain any sonic differences if indeed this is happening.
(I don't think the 818 does this however but I don't have one to verify)

which avrs might this be true of? as the very first that any avr does when receiving a codec* is unpack it to pcm... there were a few avrs (one of the marantz units comes to mind) that could not both unpack the lossless codecs AND apply post-processing due to lack of horsepower... but that would be the opposite scenario of what you describe...

* with the exception of avrs that have a "dsd direct to analog" option, and that is limited to dsd input only...
post #3367 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

It should be, but it is not.


I guess the only option would be to use sub out for 24fps material or a bluray payer with 2 hdmi outputs, can u assign sub out to a device, Directv on main out with processing and sub out linked to bluray input with no processing ? Is this on all onkyo receivers and preamps? If so why are the likes of Home Theater mag and Widescreen review not catching this during their reviews?

dunno why... not thorough enough, possibly... a person who has very popular reviews missed it as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

If u have it set to pass through without any processing applied it should be fine,

It should be, but it is not.

yup... "should" being the operative word...
post #3368 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

After setting up audyssey is there anyway to go back to view the results?

 

Unfortunately not from within the AVR itself. You could use independent measuring gear like REW or OmniMic to see the 'before Audyssey' and 'after Audyssey' response in your room, and that will show you graphically what corrections Audyssey has made (or more accurately, the result in your room of the corrections Audyssey has made).

post #3369 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

After reading this thread, I've decided against buying this AVR. Now, I've got to decide between Denon and Manratz. wink.gif

 

The best value currently IMO is a Denon 4311 if you can still find one. People have been snapping them up for about $1,000 according to various members' reports. The 4311 has a full implementation of XT32 (unlike the 818) and has preouts if you want to be able to drive external amps.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 12/13/12 at 6:18am
post #3370 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Unfortunately not from within the AVR itself. You could use independent measuring gear like REW or OmniMic to see the 'before Audyssey' and 'after Audyssey' response in your room, and that will show you graphically what corrections Audyssey has made (or more accurately, the result in your room of the corrections Audyssey has made).

What I am wanting to see is the page that it shows once Audyssey is finished. Once you leave that page I can't seem to find a way back to it. I changed my crossovers and also bumped my sub level a bit. I wanted to switch back to what Audyssey had done but there doesn't seem to be away to do that with this receiver. I could on my Denon 2809 that this unit replaced.
post #3371 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Hey. Did anyone here happen to have problems connecting 818 to D-Link Gigabit switch (DGS-1008A in my case)? Positive and negative experience would be interesting (with the exact model of the switch).
Mine is not able to 'handshake' the speed and blinking once every few seconds trying to re-handshake.

There are widespread problems with gigabit switches that aren't really their fault. Running at gigabit speeds requires a lot of careful mouth-holding in the wiring department. A kink in a line that was removed may not leave visible traces but may have still messed things up internally. If there is someway to shift the speed of things down to 100BTX it might be worth experimenting with.
post #3372 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LPCM and DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHS are essentially the same thing. One is not compressed and the other is compressed (losslessly).  To say there is a difference between them is like taking a Word document in its .doc form and one that has been compressed and is now in .zip form, and then saying when the .zip document is decompressed, the content of the Word document will be different. It won't.

If you are hearing differences in the mix, then something is wrong somewhere.

+1.

But I'll add this:
Depending on the AVR some treat LPCM as a digital direct signal (similar to 7.1 analog inputs) and therefore not provide any post processing.
This could explain any sonic differences if indeed this is happening.
(I don't think the 818 does this however but I don't have one to verify)

 

I'm not sure I am understanding you. Post processing will be applied to LPCM regardless of whether the AVR is being sent a compressed codec or a straight LPCM signal. If the AVR is sent a compressed codec, the first thing it does is to decompress it to LPCM. All available processing will still be in force will it not? Alternatively, I could have my player decompress a codec and send LPCM to the AVR - but the post-processing is not denied to the LPCM in that case. But you do say 'depending on the AVR', so perhaps you could elaborate and let me know which AVRs work this way.

 

One thing I did overlook in my reply to the OP was that there is one obvious way that he could be hearing differences and that is if the LPCM track was mixed differently to the compressed track for some reason, and then both were included on the same blu-ray. I don't think I have ever encountered that personally though. Otherwise, as I said before, the content of a compressed DTS-HD MA codec is identical to the LPCM once decompressed, just like the Word document is the same whether in native .doc format, or extracted from a .zip formal file.

post #3373 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Unfortunately not from within the AVR itself. You could use independent measuring gear like REW or OmniMic to see the 'before Audyssey' and 'after Audyssey' response in your room, and that will show you graphically what corrections Audyssey has made (or more accurately, the result in your room of the corrections Audyssey has made).

What I am wanting to see is the page that it shows once Audyssey is finished. Once you leave that page I can't seem to find a way back to it. I changed my crossovers and also bumped my sub level a bit. I wanted to switch back to what Audyssey had done but there doesn't seem to be away to do that with this receiver. I could on my Denon 2809 that this unit replaced.

 

Oh, OK. Well IIRC all that page shows is the crossovers and distances and trims. You can check those in the setup menu under speakers. If you didn't make a note of the Audyssey-set values, then there is no way to rediscover them unfortunately. All you can do is run Audyssey again and this time make a note of the settings (I usually take a photo of the screen with my iPhone - real easy).

post #3374 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oh, OK. Well IIRC all that page shows is the crossovers and distances and trims. You can check those in the setup menu under speakers. If you didn't make a note of the Audyssey-set values, then there is no way to rediscover them unfortunately. All you can do is run Audyssey again and this time make a note of the settings (I usually take a photo of the screen with my iPhone - real easy).

redface.gif Yeah, I thought about that right after I changed everything.

When you say the 4311 has a full implementation of XT32 are you talking about the SubEQ?
post #3375 of 9477
Mike Bunty touched on something that i've been struggling with. I'm looking for a work around aside from the obvious on his question.

"I guess the only option would be to use sub out for 24fps material or a bluray payer with 2 hdmi outputs, can u assign sub out to a device, Directv on main out with processing and sub out linked to bluray input with no processing ?

I know i can could hook the PS3 (Blu-ray) to the HDMI on the tv and run an optical out to the receiver. BUT is there any other way that i can try to use both HDMI outs and have the P33 hooked to the sub out and the rest (Directv , XBOX etc.) hooked to the mains? If i hooked the PS3 to the HDMI sub out, maybe i can have a button on the Harmony one labeled HDMI out or program it to switch to the Sub out when watching a Blu-ray?

I have always purchased Onkyo and I'm trying to find any way to continue. I would like to get the 818.. Not sure if the 1010 has the same problem with the 24p or not .. I'm assuming it does.

I've read all 113 pages and some claim you wont see the 24p problem and some do.. if i can find a work around that will work for me i would be extremely grateful.
post #3376 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I'm not sure I am understanding you. Post processing will be applied to LPCM regardless of whether the AVR is being sent a compressed codec or a straight LPCM signal. If the AVR is sent a compressed codec, the first thing it does is to decompress it to LPCM. All available processing will still be in force will it not? Alternatively, I could have my player decompress a codec and send LPCM to the AVR - but the post-processing is not denied to the LPCM in that case. But you do say 'depending on the AVR', so perhaps you could elaborate and let me know which AVRs work this way.

One thing I did overlook in my reply to the OP was that there is one obvious way that he could be hearing differences and that is if the LPCM track was mixed differently to the compressed track for some reason, and then both were included on the same blu-ray. I don't think I have ever encountered that personally though. Otherwise, as I said before, the content of a compressed DTS-HD MA codec is identical to the LPCM once decompressed, just like the Word document is the same whether in native .doc format, or extracted from a .zip formal file.

I was referring to having LPCM set to default to the "Direct" listening mode. In this case you lose all of the EQ, delay and db balancing that audyssey has setup has set.
I could have sworn that on the older Onkyos this was the default setting (705, 805 etc) and it accounted for the differences.

I think I may be mistaken and if someone can verify that would be great.
post #3377 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oh, OK. Well IIRC all that page shows is the crossovers and distances and trims. You can check those in the setup menu under speakers. If you didn't make a note of the Audyssey-set values, then there is no way to rediscover them unfortunately. All you can do is run Audyssey again and this time make a note of the settings (I usually take a photo of the screen with my iPhone - real easy).

 

 

 

 

Quote:
redface.gif Yeah, I thought about that right after I changed everything.

 

 

Ah - glad it's not just me then :)

 

 

Quote:

When you say the 4311 has a full implementation of XT32 are you talking about the SubEQ?

 

Yes, correct.

post #3378 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I'm not sure I am understanding you. Post processing will be applied to LPCM regardless of whether the AVR is being sent a compressed codec or a straight LPCM signal. If the AVR is sent a compressed codec, the first thing it does is to decompress it to LPCM. All available processing will still be in force will it not? Alternatively, I could have my player decompress a codec and send LPCM to the AVR - but the post-processing is not denied to the LPCM in that case. But you do say 'depending on the AVR', so perhaps you could elaborate and let me know which AVRs work this way.

One thing I did overlook in my reply to the OP was that there is one obvious way that he could be hearing differences and that is if the LPCM track was mixed differently to the compressed track for some reason, and then both were included on the same blu-ray. I don't think I have ever encountered that personally though. Otherwise, as I said before, the content of a compressed DTS-HD MA codec is identical to the LPCM once decompressed, just like the Word document is the same whether in native .doc format, or extracted from a .zip formal file.

 

Quote:
I was referring to having LPCM set to default to the "Direct" listening mode. In this case you lose all of the EQ, delay and db balancing that audyssey has setup has set.

 

 

Ah, right. With you now. Not seen that though.

 

Quote:
I could have sworn that on the older Onkyos this was the default setting (705, 805 etc) and it accounted for the differences.

I think I may be mistaken and if someone can verify that would be great.

 

I had (still have, in the attic) a 705 and I don't remember it doing that, BICBW.

post #3379 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

You need to run the Audyssey setup and it will find the wide speakers. You will then have 3 options to use them with; Audyssey DSX (PLII DSX), Neo X and THX NEO X.

Thanks.. got it working now smile.gif
post #3380 of 9477
So I just setup my 818 yesterday. Here are a few thoughts after playing with it for a bit. So far I have only listened to music for a few hours and watched a movie. I am mostly comparing this to my Denon 2809.

I had the chance to play with this receiver at another forum members house before purchasing it. This allowed me to learn the menus and get a good idea of what I was getting into with this unit.

Once I started setting it up everything was pretty quick and easy. Compared to my Denon the GUI seem light years better. Being 2012 in a land of smart phones and tablets I would have liked to see it in a higher resolution. The inputs and terminals on the back are what you would expect. I have a very simplified setup at my house so I am only really using one HDMI in and one out.
I reset the unit before doing anything with it. Then I ran Audyssey. That was about it for setup. I was surprised at how fast Audyssey is Now.

I then downloaded the Onkyo app on my Nexus 7 and started streaming Pandora. Everything seemed to sound very good. Once I figured out how to add my Spotify account to the receiver I was very happy. Using the tablet to control my music was very nice. I will be using this combo a lot. I messed around with the app to see just how much it can do and so far I can't say it's missing anything that I would need it to do.

Later I decided to watch a movie. Audyssey seems to helped my center channel a lot. Dialog was much improved. One movie isn't enough to really know for sure so I'll be watching a lot of stuff this weekend to see how it compare with a bigger sample. I did change a few of the settings after Audyssey was done. I moved my crossovers up to 80Hz and bumped my sub up 5db. This version of Audyssey seems both better and worse then what I was use to on my Denon (XT). Everything seem blended better especially my sub. However the changes also seem more pronounced. Like the high frequencies and it seems to put a stronger focus of bass to my speakers than rolling it off to my sub like it had on the Denon. I wonder if the crossover slope is any different between these two units. Overall I do like the sound quality.

Speaking of the sound; I played around with the different music settings. On my Denon I normally just used either stereo, 5 ch stereo, or Pro-logic Music. I have cycled through all of them but haven't really decided what I like the most yet. But there are a lot to choose from.

Overall this is a great receiver. It handles anything a modern receiver should while adding some nice perks like its app and XT32. It's a huge step up from my denon when it come to features. So far I have not seen any real drawbacks to the unit and plan to have it for many years to come. Oh yeah before I forget.. This unit doesn't seem to get nearly as hot as Onyko's I've experienced in the past. It might even run cooler then my Denon. I will keep checking on this but with the added fans I don't think heat will be an issue.
post #3381 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by farkem View Post

Try a different cable. Sounds like one of the conductors isn't solid. Could be in the jack, or a break in the cable. Especially if you are using solid core wire as a patch cable [not a good idea, in the long run].

Today it works well, replaced the cable just in case. Thanks everyone who answered.
post #3382 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp121h View Post

I know i can could hook the PS3 (Blu-ray) to the HDMI on the tv and run an optical out to the receiver. BUT is there any other way that i can try to use both HDMI outs and have the P33 hooked to the sub out and the rest (Directv , XBOX etc.) hooked to the mains? If i hooked the PS3 to the HDMI sub out, maybe i can have a button on the Harmony one labeled HDMI out or program it to switch to the Sub out when watching a Blu-ray?.

Hook up both HDMI outputs to two different inputs on the TV and set the output on the AVR to 'Both'. Then, when you want to watch a 24p source, you can use the input which the SUB out is connected to.
Where you will find it frustrating is if you have CEC (RIHD) enabled, the MAIN will auto switch all the time and switching back to SUB is often a laborious handshaking resync (20 seconds on my setup),

I don't advise you to game with the Main output. Significantly more lag than Sub.
post #3383 of 9477
I realize your audyssey knowledge is very strong and you're super helpful and all but this is not true. It's kinda a terminology thing...but not really
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The 4311 has a full implementation of XT32 (unlike the 818) and has preouts if you want to be able to drive external amps.
Here are some true statements.
The Dennon 4311 has a full implementation of Audyssey XT32.
The Dennon 4311 has a full implementation of Audyssey SubEQHT.
The Onkyo 818 has a full implementation of Audyssey XT32.
The Onkyo 818 does not implement Audyssey SubEQHT.

Because SubEQHT integrates with XT32 does not make it a component of XT32. I realize all XT32 AVR's prior to the 818 also had SubEQHT, that doesn't make it a component of it either. The audyssey website distinguishes between the two technologies / features.

I agree the 4311 is a great AVR, can't go wrong there. The lack of SubEQHT on the 818 may not matter for allot of users. It does nothing for one sub, what it does for two subs can be accomplished as well or better with other tools, and it gets interesting at 3+ subs depending on approach. Besides what a terrible name "SubEQHT", it does not EQ subs.

Whether we can agree on the terminology and feature categorization or not, I'm sure you understand the feature differences.
post #3384 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Hook up both HDMI outputs to two different inputs on the TV and set the output on the AVR to 'Both'. Then, when you want to watch a 24p source, you can use the input which the SUB out is connected to.
Where you will find it frustrating is if you have CEC (RIHD) enabled, the MAIN will auto switch all the time and switching back to SUB is often a laborious handshaking resync (20 seconds on my setup),
I don't advise you to game with the Main output. Significantly more lag than Sub.
OUT
Thanks Fahrenheit. If i understand you correctly. I can have an HDMI coming out of the Main OUT to lets say HDMI 1 on the TV. Then have another HDMI coming out of the sub OUT and going to HDMI 2 on the TV. How does the 818 know when i'm going to watch a blu-ray and switch to the Sub out vs Main? Based on what you are telling me, i could have ONLY Directv coming thru the main and PS3, XBOX, etc going thru the sub. I would be fine with that.

I'm not sure if i will have RIHD enabled or not.. if i understand what that is correctly it is a way to conrol other devices with your onkyo remote thru HDMI? Maybe? If thats the case i should be fine as i will be relying completey with the Harmony one. Will I need to manually switch each time between the Main and Sub outs? When going from Blu-ray to Directv ? Sorry for my ignorance.. I just want to understand before i buy.
post #3385 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I realize your audyssey knowledge is very strong and you're super helpful and all but this is not true. It's kinda a terminology thing...but not really
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The 4311 has a full implementation of XT32 (unlike the 818) and has preouts if you want to be able to drive external amps.
Here are some true statements.
The Dennon 4311 has a full implementation of Audyssey XT32.
The Dennon 4311 has a full implementation of Audyssey SubEQHT.
The Onkyo 818 has a full implementation of Audyssey XT32.
The Onkyo 818 does not implement Audyssey SubEQHT.

Because SubEQHT integrates with XT32 does not make it a component of XT32. I realize all XT32 AVR's prior to the 818 also had SubEQHT, that doesn't make it a component of it either. The audyssey website distinguishes between the two technologies / features.

I agree the 4311 is a great AVR, can't go wrong there. The lack of SubEQHT on the 818 may not matter for allot of users. It does nothing for one sub, what it does for two subs can be accomplished as well or better with other tools, and it gets interesting at 3+ subs depending on approach. Besides what a terrible name "SubEQHT", it does not EQ subs.

Whether we can agree on the terminology and feature categorization or not, I'm sure you understand the feature differences.

 

I'm not really sure what your point is. For the avoidance of any confusion, every XT32-equipped unit will measure the distances and levels of dual subs independently and then EQ them as one. The 818 does not do this. 

 

If someone has only one sub, or a pair of identical subs that are co-located or equidistant from the MLP, this probably won't really matter.

 

The 4311 operates like every other XT32-equipped unit I have ever heard of and measures the sub distances and levels independently and then EQs them as one. This is advantageous when the subs are not co-located and/or equidistant from the MLP, which is common when dual subs are used in order to reduce seat to seat variance for the bass frequencies.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 12/13/12 at 3:43pm
post #3386 of 9477
I love using my phone app to control music using a hard drive filled with all my wav files. But, it only seems to work through the front USB - whenever I connect through the rear USB I get nothing. I thought the rear USB could be used for basic file playing. No? Cos' I can't really keep the front tray open, and I want the hard drive connected full-time.
post #3387 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Where you will find it frustrating is if you have CEC (RIHD) enabled, the MAIN will auto switch all the time

And you also have to live with RIHD enabled if you want ARC... This aggressive auto switching is really killing every other feature of the receiver frown.gif
post #3388 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

And you also have to live with RIHD enabled if you want ARC... This aggressive auto switching is really killing every other feature of the receiver frown.gif

It's not the AVR per se, it's probably just responding to CEC commands from the devices on the bus.
post #3389 of 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp121h View Post

OUT
Thanks Fahrenheit. If i understand you correctly. I can have an HDMI coming out of the Main OUT to lets say HDMI 1 on the TV. Then have another HDMI coming out of the sub OUT and going to HDMI 2 on the TV.

That is correct. But if what IgorZep mentioned applies to you, you may wish to check which input on the TV supports ARC. On my Panasonic, its HDMI 2, so Main would have to be going to HDMI 2 if that is a factor.
Quote:
How does the 818 know when i'm going to watch a blu-ray and switch to the Sub out vs Main?

It doesn't know. It tries to be smarter than you and switches to MAIN for you because Onkyo thinks that is what you want. Then when you override it and change the TV to the input that SUB is on, you sit there and wait for it to do its handshake... Then when you pause the movie and switch over to another input to save your screen from getting IR you have to switch back to SUB manually again and sit through another handshaking session....It gets old very quickly.

I don't use ARC and I have my TV set to skip the HDMI input that MAIN is connected to. That way, I avoid any autoswitching. If I need the GUI, I can then enable that input on the TV again and do what I need to then set it to skip again. Its not perfectly, but it bypasses all the annoying auto switching.
Quote:
Based on what you are telling me, i could have ONLY Directv coming thru the main and PS3, XBOX, etc going thru the sub. I would be fine with that.

If you choose to do that (and I suggest you do), then yes, you can do that. But be aware that you have to manually make the change on your TV, which can get very tedious.
post #3390 of 9477
do u guys recommend this receiver?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion