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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 129

post #3841 of 9458
As far as I'm concerned, if someone has this AVR that has this problem really noticeable, then it's not to specification, and people should send it in for repair, until that issue is not visible ( that's what I would do ), maybe then, onkyo will realize they should make a fix for it.....

Maybe someone needs to remind Onkyo what happened to Samsung for playing dumb with installing cheap 2nd rate capacitors on power supply boards of all their flat panel tv's they made over 6 plus years ago.......
post #3842 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I haven't seen any judder watching 1080p/24hz movies and that includes 3D titles.

+1

My only gripe is the HDMI cables fall out alot. The industry needs to fix these the way they did fo rSATA cables ...
Edited by skybolt - 1/3/13 at 11:14am
post #3843 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

As far as I'm concerned, if someone has this AVR that has this problem really noticeable, then it's not to specification, and people should send it in for repair, until that issue is not visible ( that's what I would do ), maybe then, onkyo will realize they should make a fix for it.....
Maybe someone needs to remind Onkyo what happened to Samsung for playing dumb with installing cheap 2nd rate capacitors on power supply boards of all flat panel tv's they made over 6 plus years ago.......

Someone has already done that and the ultimate 'solution' was that their retailer, who was trying to get it fixed for them, ended up giving them a refund towards purchase of a non Onkyo product because Onkyo could not or would not fix the issue after a period of two months. Similarly Joe Rod told us back in August that Onkyo was aware of this and would hopefully fix it, and now five months later, zilcho.

Unfortunately in an era of low end garbage TVs, various settings that can hide or obscure this type of problem (frame interpolation motion "smoothing", etc) and apathetic customers (have their BD players set by default to 1080P/60), Onkyo can get away with it.

I'm not independantly wealthy or I might consider buying another AVR so I could send this one in and beat Onkyo up about it. Unfortunately I don't have an extra $1500 laying around to play chicken with Onkyo over this, but if someone does then bravo, go for it.
post #3844 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelillis View Post

Well, I dont own one of these machines and was researching a 515/616 (dont laugh, I dodged a major pile of you know what there) and was almost about the press the buy button for a 818, but not now if there is a noticeable judder every 41 seconds on 24 fps ps3 blurays..
Is it really a noticeable annoying artifact or is this an academic argument where in real life it really isn't an issue ????

Yes, it is there and it is VERY noticeable. At least on my big-ass plasma that handles 24P properly. I saw the issue both when using my PS3 as a source and when using my HTPC as a source. Switching to the secondary output however bypasses all of the Onkyo processing and circumvents the issue. It's not a great solution, but it is a solution of sorts.

To those who don't notice it, my guess is that they simply are part of the fortunate group who don't notice things like this (they probably don't notice gawdawful 3:2 pulldown judder either) or they have their TV set up for something other than 24P, or they have a TV that hides these types of problems through the use of excessive processing or motion smoothing.

My Panasonic plasma provides a picture that is amazingly film-like when viewing 24P content and sadly the problem is VERY noticeable. I would expect it is quite noticeable on 24P projectors also.

I was the first person in this thread who pointed this problem out and lots of hecklers insisted that the problem was not present... however testing done by another member using a lumigen processor PROVES that it has this problem... so if you notice things like dupe/dropped frames, then avoid the 818.
post #3845 of 9458
I am not a heckler not stupid or blind and am very sensitive to various video defects and yet both on my panny plasma and jvc pj both 24 p capable I do not see this defect. Or I would be screaming like those that do. Never one skip or judder . Would be interesting to hear what joerod would have to say on the subject at this time.. He does have an ear to Onkyo.
post #3846 of 9458
I have pointed out to Onkyo that both 59.94 and 23.976 material is being converted to 60 and 24fps, I have test this using my Dvdo Edge. If Onkyo is using the same VP chip in their higher end models then they should have the same flaws.
post #3847 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I am not a heckler not stupid or blind and am very sensitive to various video defects and yet both on my panny plasma and jvc pj both 24 p capable I do not see this defect. Or I would be screaming like those that do. Never one skip or judder . Would be interesting to hear what joerod would have to say on the subject at this time.. He does have an ear to Onkyo.


I have a conversation going with Joerod about this but then again he was made aware of this a few months back. I understand some people do not see stutter or other issue but anyone with a video processor can confirm its altering the signal.
post #3848 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

E I have a conversation going with Joerod about this but then again he was made aware of this a few months back. I understand some people do not see stutter or other issue but anyone with a video processor can confirm its altering the signal.

I do not have a video processor just my eyes. I do not doubt that the issue exists just find it strange I do not see it. Did joe give you any feed back on what Onkyo is trying to do about this. I wonder if the same issue has appeared to any 1010 3010 5010 users as it is the same processor.
post #3849 of 9458
I have an Iphone 5, latest firmware, and the 818, latest firmware. When I try to play music either using the onkyo remote, or plugging it into the USB, it will occasionally skip and pop as if it is having trouble processing the audio files. Anyone have this problem? Is there a fix? Thanks.
post #3850 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I am not a heckler not stupid or blind and am very sensitive to various video defects and yet both on my panny plasma and jvc pj both 24 p capable I do not see this defect. Or I would be screaming like those that do. Never one skip or judder . Would be interesting to hear what joerod would have to say on the subject at this time.. He does have an ear to Onkyo.

Then either you simply don't observe the problem (hard to believe if you are as annoyed by artifacts as you say), or your unit is different than others (possible but not likely), or, your combination of settings on your display equipment and the Onkyo do not produce the problem.

All I'm going to say is that at least one person who conversed with me about this over PM, and who will remain nameless, did not in fact have their gear set up for 24P, it was displaying at 60 fps. After spending oodles of time helping them get their gear setup they reported that they saw the picture "glitch" but that it didn't really bother them.

Le Sigh.

As a result, I'm not interested in spending my own valuable time trying to "prove" the problem is there when I already know it is.
post #3851 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I do not have a video processor just my eyes. I do not doubt that the issue exists just find it strange I do not see it.

Could there be different build dates, firmware? What could be the magic variable? I was looking at getting this, but now I'm not so sure.
post #3852 of 9458
For the 24p issue, the HDMI-sub output will eliminate this, correct? (understand you will lose the OSD, but that is probably a small price to pay?)

For me, I don't see this issue because I had an Oppo and video output goes directly to my VP, while the other goes to 818 for audio processing only. I do have the AVR output to my VP for other sources (TV, Wii, PS3 etc) but they are not 24p source (well PS3 can technically output 24p, but I use Oppo for blu-ray playback). I can certainly check the VP input and see if it is doing 23.976 or 24.
post #3853 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

For the 24p issue, the HDMI-sub output will eliminate this, correct? (understand you will lose the OSD, but that is probably a small price to pay?)
For me, I don't see this issue because I had an Oppo and video output goes directly to my VP, while the other goes to 818 for audio processing only. I do have the AVR output to my VP for other sources (TV, Wii, PS3 etc) but they are not 24p source (well PS3 can technically output 24p, but I use Oppo for blu-ray playback). I can certainly check the VP input and see if it is doing 23.976 or 24.

Set your PS3 for 1080P/24 and then you should see on your VP that the output of the signal from the 818 Main is 24.00 not 23.976 as it should be.

You are correct, using the sub-out is a workaround, you don't only lose the OSD, you loose all of the fancy video processing that you MIGHT want to use for other input sources like a STB, game machine, etc.
post #3854 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber Ale View Post

Could there be different build dates, firmware? What could be the magic variable? I was looking at getting this, but now I'm not so sure.

The most likely variable, other than equipment settings (not really doing 24P from the 818 with a valid source and to a TV set to display a 24P multiple frame-rate) is differences in how different people perceive this kind of thing... which, unfortunately, is not something that can be quantifiably measured.
post #3855 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Right speaker + sub, "Music" curve, before (blue) and after (green):

Is that your in room response?
If so, bravo! pretty impressive even before x32 is applied.

How do you like the "flat" sound?
I personally prefer a little roll off at the high end, but I can't argue with the results.
post #3856 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Is that your in room response?

Yes but without LF boost which gets me down to 20Hz flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

How do you like the "flat" sound?
I personally prefer a little roll off at the high end, but I can't argue with the results.

This is taken care of by Audyssey's Dynamic EQ.
post #3857 of 9458
Howdy,
Browsed a few pages but didn't see anyone with the question I have.

Just got a 818 after our 707 started to fail. Big improvement over the 707, run coolers too. I set up up according to the instruction which included a firmware update.

Two issues I'm wondering about, first when we start up the onkyo start up screen is green most of the time (it has done this from the first start up before any firmware update). We only notice it when we turn the TV on first.
The other issue is with U-verse, sometime it has horizontal lines going though the picture, a few time it had no sound, some time turning it down all the way then tuning it up usually it's turning off the u-verse DVR then turning it back on.. I'm kind of thinking it is a u-verse problem but wanted to check to make sure this isn't a sign of a failing receiver.

Thanks for your input.
post #3858 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Set your PS3 for 1080P/24 and then you should see on your VP that the output of the signal from the 818 Main is 24.00 not 23.976 as it should be.
You are correct, using the sub-out is a workaround, you don't only lose the OSD, you loose all of the fancy video processing that you MIGHT want to use for other input sources like a STB, game machine, etc.

Thanks. I will do some testing tonight if I have time. I had a Lumagen VP so I do "direct" anyway, but I really want the OSD. I will report back my finding.
post #3859 of 9458
thanks for all the 24frame comments, I run 24p from the ps3 onto my 60 inch plasma, so I'd bet if I had the 818, I'd see the issue aswell, so I'll not be getting this machine.
I'd bet onkyo are working on a 828 for release in May 2013, maybe this one will not have the bug.
post #3860 of 9458
I have a 5 year old Mits 65" DLP, the manual says it supports 24p... does it really mean 24 or actually 23.976?

I'm curious if I will see the problem or if my TV "avoids" it?
post #3861 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin View Post

I have a 5 year old Mits 65" DLP, the manual says it supports 24fps... does it really mean 24fps or actually 23.976?
I'm curious if I will see the problem or if my TV "avoids" it?

24p support usually means that the display accepts 24.000/23.976 content and internally converts it to ~60FPS before display. Most TVs manufactured in the last few years do this.

High-end plasmas and many 120/240Hz LCDs support playing back the 24p content at some multiple of the native frame rate (48, 72, 96, 120, 250Hz). I'd be surprised if your DLP supported native playback, but it's possible. What model is it?
post #3862 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelillis View Post

thanks for all the 24frame comments, I run 24p from the ps3 onto my 60 inch plasma, so I'd bet if I had the 818, I'd see the issue aswell, so I'll not be getting this machine.
I'd bet onkyo are working on a 828 for release in May 2013, maybe this one will not have the bug.

They surely know by now if it's fixable; given the lack of progress and transparency from Onkyo on this issue I think that's the wisest course of action.
post #3863 of 9458
My Onkyo 876 that my new 818 replaced would show in the display when it was playing Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio from my Blu Ray player. How do I know when the 818 is doing so?
post #3864 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin View Post

I have a 5 year old Mits 65" DLP, the manual says it supports 24p... does it really mean 24 or actually 23.976?
I'm curious if I will see the problem or if my TV "avoids" it?

As bob mentions, your TV almost definitely supports both 24.00 and 23.976.

The problem would not be because of your TV, the problem would be that when playing a BD source which in the north american market is sent at 23.976, the Onkyo would convert this to 24.00 and in doing so you end up with duplicated frames every ~40 seconds.

The whole 23.976 thing is moronic anyway. They should have made a clean break with this NTSC bull when the BD format was launched. 24.00 and 60.00 is all it ever should have supported... then we wouldn't be dealing with this kind of bologna.
post #3865 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassEtcher View Post

My Onkyo 876 that my new 818 replaced would show in the display when it was playing Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio from my Blu Ray player. How do I know when the 818 is doing so?

There are a few different ways:

OSD:


FP:


App:
post #3866 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The most likely variable, other than equipment settings (not really doing 24P from the 818 with a valid source and to a TV set to display a 24P multiple frame-rate) is differences in how different people perceive this kind of thing... which, unfortunately, is not something that can be quantifiably measured.

I also have this same issue as you. I have no idea if it is in all 818's (I would assume) but it is definitely is happening to me. If any of you want to try and replicate this, just pop in transformers 3 and turn on 24p in your blu ray player. It was so bad for me I wanted to just pack my receiver up and send it back to New Egg. I also can see the stutter (or whatever you call it) without 24p on. I also have the stutter when I switch HDMI's to sub out. I really want to like this receiver too!

I went back a few pages and could see people were having a problem with this as far back as September. I would have thought there would have been a fix by now!?!? I have a couple of weeks left to return this unit and probably will if Onkyo doesn't fix it. Other than the 24p bug my receiver is flawless for what I use it for. Just wanted people to know that jmpage2 is not crazy and this problem is very real.

I will also be emailing Onkyo tomorrow.
post #3867 of 9458
I had my finger on the "buy" button to pick up a 818 today. All the posts about skip/judder issue has made me reconsider.
post #3868 of 9458
Super noob question: is there a huge, noticeable difference between watching bluray with or without 24p? Because all of this talk has me wanting to replace the 818 I picked up last week and save my money for something else. Speaking of which, is there a comparable product out there right now in terms of features that's anywhere close in price?
post #3869 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

They surely know by now if it's fixable; given the lack of progress and transparency from Onkyo on this issue I think that's the wisest course of action.

So you're saying those who have purchased one and are still within the 30days should return it if at all possible?

I think I am on the fence with this one, I got mine for $679 from Amazon on there one day sale before xmas.
The sound is awesome, I am not sure about the video, but I can just put it in direct and bypass the VP, can't I?

Any recomendations for a decent video processor - Better then the DVDo Edge?
post #3870 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Super noob question: is there a huge, noticeable difference between watching bluray with or without 24p? Because all of this talk has me wanting to replace the 818 I picked up last week and save my money for something else. Speaking of which, is there a comparable product out there right now in terms of features that's anywhere close in price?



^ I would be interested as well.
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