or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 130

post #3871 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

So you're saying those who have purchased one and are still within the 30days should return it if at all possible?
I think I am on the fence with this one, I got mine for $679 from Amazon on there one day sale before xmas.
The sound is awesome, I am not sure about the video, but I can just put it in direct and bypass the VP, can't I?
Any recomendations for a decent video processor - Better then the DVDo Edge?

No settings will bypass this 24P processing flaw. You will want to use the HDMI sub-output to avoid the issue.
post #3872 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Then either you simply don't observe the problem (hard to believe if you are as annoyed by artifacts as you say), or your unit is different than others (possible but not likely), or, your combination of settings on your display equipment and the Onkyo do not produce the problem.
All I'm going to say is that at least one person who conversed with me about this over PM, and who will remain nameless, did not in fact have their gear set up for 24P, it was displaying at 60 fps. After spending oodles of time helping them get their gear setup they reported that they saw the picture "glitch" but that it didn't really bother them.
Le Sigh.
As a result, I'm not interested in spending my own valuable time trying to "prove" the problem is there when I already know it is.

I am not asking you to,prove anything. Both my displays are 24p capable and are set for that. I run from the 818 main to a darbee to a splitter and out to the pj and panny,plasma and see no jumps,judder, etc . I do not doubt that you have or see this issue but others do not and it is apiary that some are bypassing this unit especially at somemofbthe great pricing being offered. If i saw this issue I would be at the front of the complaint line .
post #3873 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Super noob question: is there a huge, noticeable difference between watching bluray with or without 24p? Because all of this talk has me wanting to replace the 818 I picked up last week and save my money for something else. Speaking of which, is there a comparable product out there right now in terms of features that's anywhere close in price?

If you're asking this question then it probably does not matter to you.

On a TV that does a good job with 24P material, 24P looks more film-like. When the pictures "judders" when the camera pans, it looks the same way (or at least similar) that it does when you are in a movie theater.

Alternatively you watch at 60fps and avoid this onkyo processing bug. The problem that myself (and others) have with watching 24P content at 60FPS is that there is 3:2 pulldown done on the 24P material which results in a pretty noticeable stuttering effect (referred to as 3:2 pulldown judder) as well as some noticeable motion issues related to 3:2 telecine. You can read entire gobs of info on the internet about it.

In the early days of 24P in home cinema, displays/projectors did not do a very good job with handling 24P and providing a good picture. These days, the better sets will display 24P at either 72, 96 or 120hz. It minimizes the motion judder (which is still slightly noticeable but without it then it would not look like "film" anymore) and the result is pretty pleasing for those who like the film look. Plasma sets and certain projector types (those with separate LCD or LCOS elements for RGB for example) tend to do the best.

If none of this matters to you, or you like the glassy smooth image of a 120hz or higher LCD using motion smoothing, then all of this is irrelevant to you, just watch at 60fps from your BD player or HTPC and let your TV do those processing things to make the 24p source material look like a 'soap opera'. This is simply a matter of preference/opinion and the soap opera comment is simply the best way to describe the look of motion enhancement and super high frame rates, it's not meant to be disparaging.
post #3874 of 9458
Thanks. I've read a lot about 3:2 pulldown and judder today, and it seems to me that, having bought a gorgeous new plasma and a brand new receiver (818 last week during B and H's $679 sale), that I ought to be using the best possible features, and not settling for something I could have without nice, new equipment. I might test it again this weekend if I can find time between working, but unless I can test it and see it and it still doesn't bother me, the 818 is going back on Sunday, which is really too bad because the feature set is awesome.

Is this 24p issue common on receivers these days (I haven't been in the market for years since I bought by Pioneer VSX-92THX, which is still going strong but lacks some of the newer features that I want, including 3D passthrough), or is really only an issue on the 818 (and other Onkyos from what people were posting earlier about several models using the same chip)?
post #3875 of 9458
Thread Starter 
All AVRs have issues but as far as I know onkyo is the only one who has managed to jack up something simple like 24P in the past couple of years.
post #3876 of 9458
I just plugged in my new NR818 today... everything seems to work fine except I cannot get Ethernet working... I have tried both DHCP and setting a static IP. I have 4 other devices connected to the same Dlink gig switch I've been using for 3 years, tried 2 different CAT5 cables, and even opened a brand new Trendnet gig switch... the switches show the Onkyo is connected (connection light is on) but I don't show any activity, the firewall/router does not show any DHCP address provided to it, and I cannot connect to the IP address it shows in Settings...

Any ideas?
post #3877 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Do you get a link light on the DLink switch port you are using? Could simply be a bad port on the 818. If you have an old skool hub (not switch) you can plug a laptop in that has wireshark on it and see if the 818 is even trying to get on the network.
post #3878 of 9458
I have the same problem. Though I did not update the firm ware. My iPod (3rd gen) would skip once or twice when playing a song on the 818.
post #3879 of 9458
The first thing I did was the firmware update (via USB) - before hooking anything up at all.

I'm going to try factory reset tomorrow. Then calling Onkyo unless anyone else has any first-hand experience with this same problem?
post #3880 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

No settings will bypass this 24P processing flaw. You will want to use the HDMI sub-output to avoid the issue.

I thought setting the Picture mode to Direct also bypasses the VP, as when I do this all of the video settings get hidden?
post #3881 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Super noob question: is there a huge, noticeable difference between watching bluray with or without 24p? Because all of this talk has me wanting to replace the 818 I picked up last week and save my money for something else.

If you don't see motion judder running a 24p movie @ 60FPS (3:2) the 23.976 @ 24.000 won't bother you much either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Speaking of which, is there a comparable product out there right now in terms of features that's anywhere close in price?

Not really. That's what makes it so frustrating smile.gif.
post #3882 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post


Not really. That's what makes it so frustrating smile.gif.

Makes sense though...nothing else is priced to account for a MAJOR flaw. Sigh. Not looking forward to braving BandH on consecutive Sundays, but it's better than being stuck with a lemon.
post #3883 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

I thought setting the Picture mode to Direct also bypasses the VP, as when I do this all of the video settings get hidden?

If that would fix it we would all be much happier.

Regardless of what settings you use, the main output will not properly pass 23.976 has been my experience (I even tried turning off the video processor in the service menu). Must use the sub-output instead.
post #3884 of 9458
I usually don't post here much but thought I'd put my 2 cents in. System is currently 52xbr909 Sony with DefTech Mythos ST, 8080 center, matching surrounds and a triad in room sub. Anyway I used the Onkyo NR3007 for a couple years and now went with the 818. First thing I've noticed is that it doesn't sound nearly as good. It just doesn't seem as dynamic though perhaps it's a tad warmer...I dunno. Not a huge room correction fan with the exception of anthems ARC system but I decided to run it again this time and again I'm just not happy with the results. What did we all do before corrections when evaluating receivers I wonder? Manual level matching and what not is what I primarily rely on to this day and I usually enjoy the uncorrected response of everything I've ever listened to (which is quite a lot of gear over 20 plus years). As for the 24p issue my combination seems to be handling it just fine. Regardless of the data I see only a minor issue and yes my 24p settings are correct, though at time I use the Sony's clear 1 for film material as burst and resolution patterns reveal its the only way all 1080 lines are presented during motion on engages backlight scanning. Even set to off though my judder appears normal. I have a film degree and have spent 10 years in the av industry from a sales/installation perspective and have been an enthusiast since I was a child. Not stating it isn't there but I just am not seeing the depth of the issue some are. I'm more concerned about audio quality here and it doesn't stack up, think I downgraded intentionally in order to convince myself I need a power amp. Oh well, hopefully onkyo can resolve this 24p issue for the masses. I'm sure software can do the job, really doubt it's a hardware issue.
post #3885 of 9458
Thread Starter 
The problem might not be one that Onkyo can or will fix even if it is a firmware issue. It costs money to re-engineer the firmware and fix problems like this.... it could be that another company provided some of the firmware that Onkyo uses, and is unable or unwilling to provide a fix.

The bottom line is that anyone on the fence about this unit who is concerned about this problem should either prepare themselves to use a workaround if needed, or buy a different unit. Absolutely don't expect a fix is coming, because in all likelihood it is not.

In the business that I am in, this type of problem would be categorized as a Sev-2 bug. We would have to prioritize fixing it, and we would fix it because we support our products for about 5 years (if we did not support for that long customers would not buy the products). Unfortunately in consumer products anything goes. As long as the unit turns on and does most of what it is advertised to do, companies can get away with this kind of thing.
post #3886 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

If that would fix it we would all be much happier.
Regardless of what settings you use, the main output will not properly pass 23.976 has been my experience (I even tried turning off the video processor in the service menu). Must use the sub-output instead.

Really big bummer. That kills all on screen menus ... Man is this a catch 22.
post #3887 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Really big bummer. That kills all on screen menus ... Man is this a catch 22.

You still get on screen volume control, but only when viewing HD resolution source material. Yes, it is a major drag, but for me (I watch a lot of movies) it's better than watching dropped frames or switching my gear over to 60fps.
post #3888 of 9458
Anyone else experiencing a "chirp" noise with their receiver. Whenever I turn on the receiver to watch television (Pioneer Plasma) and switch to the Cbl/Sat input to watch (through my Motorola Cable Box and Comcast) I get a loud noticeable chirp sound through the speakers - my wife thought maybe we had a bird in the house the first time it happened. This generally happens only when I first switch over the the input, after a few seconds, but has happened on one or two other occasions when I simply turned up the volume after having watched for a bit. I have not yet determined if this happens when I use the BD input to watch through by PlayStation 3 or when I listen to Pandora through the Net or an ipod through the USB, but plan to explore that this weekend.

I am running 5.1 and my front speakers are Def Tech SM65's. I don't think it is a speaker issue as this did not happen with my Denon receiver but I have another pair of speakers I can hook up to see if it is limited to the Def Techs. I can't tell if it is coming from the surrounds as well as they are ceiling mounted.

I never experienced the chirp with any prior equipment.

I have seen some reports of chirps with other Onkyo receivers but nothing in this thread.

I have contacted Onkyo but not received a response as of yet. I tried calling but the wait time was excessive.

I have had the receiver a few weeks and am still within my 30 day return time.
post #3889 of 9458
In the picture custom settings, in the manual it shows u can control Mosquito, Random, and Block noise. The only options I see is Edge enhancement and noise reduction, am I missing something? Does these option's only show up if the source is 480i. Thanks.
post #3890 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The problem might not be one that Onkyo can or will fix even if it is a firmware issue. It costs money to re-engineer the firmware and fix problems like this.... it could be that another company provided some of the firmware that Onkyo uses, and is unable or unwilling to provide a fix. ....

unfortunetly this could also be a hardware issue, like a clock not being able to scale to the needed frequency. I really hope this is not the case.
post #3891 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

In the picture custom settings, in the manual it shows u can control Mosquito, Random, and Block noise. The only options I see is Edge enhancement and noise reduction, am I missing something? Does these option's only show up if the source is 480i. Thanks.

Yes, set it to custom with NR off and you get everything.
post #3892 of 9458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

unfortunetly this could also be a hardware issue, like a clock not being able to scale to the needed frequency. I really hope this is not the case.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it is if Onkyo is not fixing it, or offering refunds for people who don't want to live with the problem.
post #3893 of 9458
I am also in the camp of does not see it, I have specifically tried not to go looking for it because I'm fairly pleased with my system and once I see something like that out comes the wallet and I've really been focused on the audio end as of late.

First off I thought this was different than the "soap opera" effect. My TV has a "motion smoother" setting which causes soap opera. I have been using 60hz and it is noticeable different then the soap opera effect to me.

I went to try to set everything to 24P and I'm a little confused on the settings. LG670 blue ray, easy to set to 24 P (I was at 60Hz). The onkyo is in "auto" so I thought that would pass through the 24 hz (bug inducing), but then my TV settings are where I'm stumped. I always keep the motion smoother off but my Panny Plasma 55ST30 has a setting called "24p Direct in" and the only possible settings for it are 48Hz or 60Hz. Does this mean my display will not do 24hz (23.976)?

Also On a different note, I turned the OSD off in the onkyo menu, but when I press settings (to tweak audio stuff, like sub level a couple db) I still get the OSD. I can navigate what I want in that quick settings menu through the onkyo's display. Is there any way to make that menu not pop up? Maybe I should just be using HDMI sub out, it goes away then right?
post #3894 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it is if Onkyo is not fixing it, or offering refunds for people who don't want to live with the problem.

True, but I doubt Onkyo is prarusing these forums either. From what I gather they are in denile or something. We need to register our complaints with them so it can get recongized. unless I missed something, they don't know this exists.

If enough of us flooded them with service emails or something maybe they would take notice.
post #3895 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

... but my Panny Plasma 55ST30 has a setting called "24p Direct in" and the only possible settings for it are 48Hz or 60Hz. Does this mean my display will not do 24hz (23.976)?

24p = 24.000/23.976 to your TV. Set the TV to 48Hz, but don't be surprised if it doesn't look great. Last I checked 48Hz had a lot of flicker on Panasonic PDPs, only the VT series really offers proper 24p support (@96Hz).
post #3896 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I am also in the camp of does not see it, I have specifically tried not to go looking for it because I'm fairly pleased with my system and once I see something like that out comes the wallet and I've really been focused on the audio end as of late.
First off I thought this was different than the "soap opera" effect. My TV has a "motion smoother" setting which causes soap opera. I have been using 60hz and it is noticeable different then the soap opera effect to me.
I went to try to set everything to 24P and I'm a little confused on the settings. LG670 blue ray, easy to set to 24 P (I was at 60Hz). The onkyo is in "auto" so I thought that would pass through the 24 hz (bug inducing), but then my TV settings are where I'm stumped. I always keep the motion smoother off but my Panny Plasma 55ST30 has a setting called "24p Direct in" and the only possible settings for it are 48Hz or 60Hz. Does this mean my display will not do 24hz (23.976)?
Also On a different note, I turned the OSD off in the onkyo menu, but when I press settings (to tweak audio stuff, like sub level a couple db) I still get the OSD. I can navigate what I want in that quick settings menu through the onkyo's display. Is there any way to make that menu not pop up? Maybe I should just be using HDMI sub out, it goes away then right?

24P is FPS, not refresh rate. And yes use your 24P direct in, then watch a fast panning action scene. It looks like an earth quake. I didn't have my system setup right either, when I checked my BD player this AM I tested the Avengers, very depressing.
post #3897 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

24p = 24.000/23.976 to your TV. Set the TV to 48Hz, but don't be surprised if it doesn't look great. Last I checked 48Hz had a lot of flicker on Panasonic PDPs, only the VT series really offers proper 24p support (@96Hz).

So basically, no matter what combo of settings I try, My display is going to hide it But the closest I can get is try 48hz?
post #3898 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krefly View Post

If I set my new Panny ST50 to 24p, the flicker makes it unwatchable. So I set it to 60fps. Are you saying that effectively negates 24p and the set uses 3:2 pulldown??

Yes. Displaying 24 FPS @60Hz requires a 3:2 conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krefly View Post

I thought I read that 3:2 pulldown was only applied to 1080i?

That's telecine.
post #3899 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The sound is awesome, I am not sure about the video, but I can just put it in direct and bypass the VP, can't I?
Any recomendations for a decent video processor - Better then the DVDo Edge?

The new Oppo BD/VP (BDP-103) combo looks promising. Otherwise Lumagen.
post #3900 of 9458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

So basically, no matter what combo of settings I try, My display is going to hide it But the closest I can get is try 48hz?

No. Most OEMs don't make a distinction b/w 24.000 & 23.976 in the UI.

I don't think you'll be happy w/ 48Hz because of the issues w/ flicker. 3:2 judder is less annoying than flicker IMO.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion