Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 132

It's hard to find test equipment that measures this. All of the HDMI analyzers I found gloss over the distinction b/w 24.000 & 23.976 just like most consumer kit.

Without solid evidence it's difficult to frame something like this in a review.

You want your speakers to be flat in-room (by using Audyssey) which obviously requires a boost. Now they distort. So your speakers obviously don't work in your room the way they are set up. This is not a problem with Audyssey.

Measure your speaker's in-room response to rule out a problem with Audyssey.

No room correction system can possibly know about the electrical parameters of your speakers. All they can do is measure the speaker's acoustical -3dB point. Obviously your speaker vendor prioritized low frequency extension over max. SPL.

The crossover slopes of subwoofer and satellites have to match. Makes a lot of sense for a room correction system to ensure that this is the case.
Edited by markus767 - 1/5/13 at 7:40am

Yes, this is a problem, but with 818, as it is confirmed that Audyssey does not boost frequencies under F3 on other receivers (from other brands)! And it is in Audyssey FAQ that it should not boost under F3!
I do not want flat in room response from speakers on frequencies they cannot play in my room. Everybody not want this!

I repeat, what you are telling about correcting roll-off is nonsense! It is impossible to do without serious damage to other SQ parameters to even damaging the speakers... Audyssey should not do it BY DESIGN!
Edited by IgorZep - 1/5/13 at 7:59am

This is nonsense also. It is ordinary vented box - same as with MOST speakers today. So, your claim is that Audyssey is not usable with vented-box speakers?

What makes you so sure that the acoustical -3dB point of your speakers in your room is different from what Audyssey found? Did you measure?

Loudspeaker design is about trade-offs. The trade-off at the low end is always low frequency extension vs. SPL.

Any room correction system that relies on the in-room -3dB point can be problematic with ported speakers when it tries to boost below the port's resonance frequency. Audyssey is no exception.

Agreed! The more publicity this gets, especially on their own turf, the more likely they are to do something about it (even if that chance remains very small). If you care about this at all, please head to Bob's link and make your voice heard!

I am sure it is NOT different. I measured. This is close to 50 Hz, and the receiver also sets speaker crossover to 50 Hz after Audyssey calibration. The problem is that there MUST BE NO BOOST under that frequency by Audyssey for obvious reasons (to those who have enough knowledge about speaker and crossover design).

That's why I always advise that the ports on non-subs be "stuffed." For vented subs I recommend a high pass filter (HPF) at or above its tuned frequency.

Care to post that measurement?

This is what I am talking about!!! Audyssey know this, and it is even in their FAQ that they ARE NOT BOOSTING under that frequency for exactly that reasons... So, this 818 behavior is a BUG! Period. Stop trying to convince anyone it is not.

BTW... I have closed boxes on surrounds - same problem there!

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. Please post the in-room measurement of your speakers and the related preamp ouputs. This would expose any misbehavior. If any misbehavior can be identified then send the data to Audyssey and Onkyo. Shouting at people in forums that actually try to help you is counterproductive.

Here are both electrical and acoustic measurements for right front channel (detected as 40 Hz by the Audyssey and set by the AVR after calibration).

But really, it adds nothing more and doesn't explain fenomena. There is a fact that it behaves incorrectly - whatewer caused this misbehavior does not really matter.
The misbehavior is identified. It is obvious on the graphs! The data is sent to them. I am just making every other owner of 818 aware of the possible problem, so they can check their own receivers if they are affected or not. It is not helpful and counterproductive to deny the fact that there is such a serious issue with 818. It looks like same was happening with 24fps issue... And this one is really even more serious if it is common issue. I would be really glad if it is confirmed by someone that 818 can actually work correctly in this respect.

Sorry, Don't know what you are showing me. What are OSD, FP, and APP? And what is the CE Test showing in the second image?
Thanks

IgorZep,

Thanks for the graphs. Just to make sure I understand them correctly. The upper part is preamp output and the lower curves are in-room?
The lower grey and black curves are two different mic locations with Audyssey off?

Did you set subwoofer to "none" prior running Audyssey?
Edited by markus767 - 1/5/13 at 9:50am

no amount of complaining is going to kick them into gear. we are a minute few on hear compared to overall global sales #'s. most don't even see this issue let alone know what to look for. take for example amazon reviews i don't even think the bug is mentioned.

Maybe so, but in the amount of time it took you to write that post, you could have posted a sentence or two over at the Onkyo forums and made your voice heard. They may ignore us, but it can't hurt, that's for sure.

I have listed quite a number of bugs for 818 in my Amazon review of the AVR. I would be very happy if someone else did it before I bought it... All it had at the time is 5 stars fanatic reviews telling how this thing is great... Same from "professional" reviews by popular magazines! Half of their claims are simple false for this unit. Thankfully there are reviews telling the truth there today, but if more people would throw few words there about their problems - this would be really helpful for those who are considering it for buying.

The Apple AirPort Express will stream bit for bit perfect digital audio over its optical output. Obviously the audio source must be DTS encoded to begin with. All streaming to the Express is encoded using the Apple Lossless codec which preserves DTS encoding, if present in the source.

Then, make sure you do all of the following in iTunes:

• Disable iTunes volume control for remote speakers
• iTunes volume slider: all the way up
• Disable all audio modification options, such as
  
  • Sound Enhancer
  • Crossfade playback
  • Sound Check
  • "Equalizer"

These options may appear in different places for different iTunes versions.

Then, enjoy bit-for-bit perfect DTS audio sent wirelessly from your Macs to your 818.

These are the different places where the 818 shows what it's doing.

OSD = on screen display
FP = front panel (assuming you don't have a processing mode selected)
App = Onkyo Android Application (screenshot)

CE Test is what I renamed the input, since that's what I use it for .

I disabled NR and now I get the other options, is this so you can fine tune each individually? So if I set NR to low I would assume it auto sets the others to low even though those options would be hidden.

Yes, Yes, and No... I calibrated with subwoofer, but it does not matter as calibration is independent for each channel including the sub.

Started having an intermittent Issue where I am getting a high-pitched tone during aggressive playback of action sequences. I have checked all of the connections to make sure that nothing is crossed, all speakers and wires are terminated with banana plugs and does not seem to be the issue. This just started happening recently.

When I say "aggressive playback", I have my system calibrated to reference level, but I am playing about 10 DB below that. Yet when there are many explosions and such, the tone will start. It is almost as if it is a power issue, but I have played it at much higher volumes in the past with no similar issue. I would think the receiver would shut itself off If it is shorting out or getting hot. The receiver is in a open air rack with at least 8 inches above it for clearance and equal to that behind it. It does not seem to be running hot.

I checked the manual and not see anything about high-pitched sound/tone being indicative of anything. I am very puzzled.

Any thoughts? Any similar experiences? Your help is appreciated!

blackjack do u have ur 818 connected to a power strip or to the wall? if so does the strip have power conditioning?

Could you describe more in details what is the "high-pitched tone"? Is it really a tone? Or a kind of distortion?

It's a tone, almost like a test tone. High pitched, steady. Doesn't waver or change. Goes away when I pause the blu-ray playback, and returns when the action starts. Does not happen when watching low-key video such as Dexter.

The system and components are all plugged into an APC UPS with no power conditioning that I'm aware.

So then I guess the 818 will not display ( as the 876 did) on the unit's front panel that it is processing TrueHD from my blu ray player without pulling up these other readouts. Is that correct?

Not sure your graphs show that MultEQ is misbehaving - not all mic positions are shown.
Anyway, MultEQ finds a -3dB point of around 40Hz and corrects everything above that point. There are obviously some hefty modal peaks around 60Hz to 100Hz which MultEQ tries to correct. Below 40Hz the filter rolls off as it should.

I'd recommend running Audyssey again with the mandatory 3 measurements. But now leave the mic at the very same location for all 3 measurements. Then measure preamp out and in-room response again. This will show exactly if Audyssey misbehaves.
Edited by markus767 - 1/5/13 at 12:39pm