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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 136

post #4051 of 7033
1/6/13 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Igor, you should be taking your issues up in the Audyssey support thread as the folks that work at Audyssey actually participate in that thread.

Chris no longer participates in that thread. But it seems that Igor already talked to him about the issue: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/22818516-strange-boost-below-the-lowest-detected-frequency-of-speaker
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post #4052 of 7033
1/6/13 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp121h View Post

I have been using my phone to stream to the express. Am I actually using ITunes when I use my phone? Or is it just using the phone?

If you are streaming to the Express using iTunes from your iPhone then you are streaming the music directly from your iPhone.

Remember that you will only see DTS on the 818's display if the music source is already DTS encoded. I am not aware of any iTunes Music that is. If you are streaming content from iTunes on your iPhone it is almost certainly two channel stereo.

The fact that you see DTS momentarily indicates that the AirPlay connection is detected correctly, but as soon as you play a stereo track, the display correctly indicates the actual audio encoding: stereo.

DTS is more likely to be useful when streaming from DTS encoded content using an Apple TV, not iTunes music. An Apple TV is likely to have a lot more DTS content available.
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post #4053 of 7033
1/6/13 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Indeed. In fact, I'm sort of shocked that it's not in some of the mags already. Letters to the editor if nothing else. Frankly, I'm surprised that they haven't been sued or at least threatened by consumer groups for false advertising.

I've had mine around 3 months now its a uk spec Europe if you like and I have to say I do not see this problem. I do get ticks pops and cut outs on sound at high bit rates and it likes to switch off every now and then and as for networking !!! Nuffield said. I would and I think will replace the 818 when I get to building my hc
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post #4054 of 7033
1/6/13 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Menu pg 72. Under Listening Mode Preset, you can choose "straight decode" for trueHD and DTS-HDMA.
Or, you should just be able to cycle through the different Listening mode to get to it.

Thanks. So I set the listening mode preset for Dolby D and DTS to straight decode. However, when the BD is playing the display still does not show TrueHD or Master Audio. It still just shows THX Cinema or what ever other listening mode is selected on the remote. What am I missing?
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post #4055 of 7033
1/6/13 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiacfatboy View Post

I've had mine around 3 months now its a uk spec Europe if you like and I have to say I do not see this problem. I do get ticks pops and cut outs on sound at high bit rates and it likes to switch off every now and then and as for networking !!! Nuffield said. I would and I think will replace the 818 when I get to building my hc

even though i have not witnessed the bug issue. i 100% believe the issue is there, and it probably extends into several models. there is no reason whatsoever to doubt some of the members here who discovered it. especially the ones who ran the tests.

edit: i'm not stating YOU have doubts btw...just making a point.
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post #4056 of 7033
1/6/13 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassEtcher View Post

Thanks. So I set the listening mode preset for Dolby D and DTS to straight decode. However, when the BD is playing the display still does not show TrueHD or Master Audio. It still just shows THX Cinema or what ever other listening mode is selected on the remote. What am I missing?
What player are you using and what audio setting it have? Seems like you are not sending bitstream to 818. You can press "display" on the remote and it should give you information as to what the "input audio" is. If you are some multichannel (5.1 PCM or 7.1PCM) then your source is decoding the trueHD or Dts-Hdma and your 818 will never show it.
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post #4057 of 7033
1/6/13 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

I ran tests with a Dvdo Edge and had it set to direct, which is supposed to not alter the signal and it altered not only 23.976 material but also 59.97 as well. The only work around is to use the sub out. I believe EVERY Onkyo receiver will do this and reviewers need to test for this from now on!!!!!!

I immediately began to worry then these Receivers/Processors included two video processors.
Oppo does extremely well with the QDEO only so the inclusion of both seems like it was a shortcut to 4K (which nobody needed anyway).

I have an 818 on order and I will be good enough for my application.
Can the Sub Output be used in stand-by pass-through mode?

- Rich
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post #4058 of 7033
1/6/13 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

even though i have not witnessed the bug issue. i 100% believe the issue is there, and it probably extends into several models. there is no reason whatsoever to doubt some of the members here who discovered it. especially the ones who ran the tests.
edit: i'm not stating YOU have doubts btw...just making a point.
Totally agree on all points and was thinking that I was missing something. I wondered if the uk version my have something different ? It really is a shame that the 818 let's its self down in this way as I really wanted it to be great. I am dubious about buying onkyo again.
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post #4059 of 7033
1/6/13 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

The data with 1 position will be exactly the same, small variance will not explain anything, at least for this boost problem.

I don't know. When looking at your data then there are rather large differences between position 1 and 2 which makes it hard to tell how MultEQ would behave with all 8 data points. That's why using only 3 measurements without moving the mic will result in more useful data. Now MultEQ doesn't perform any averaging, it basically acts like a one point equalizing solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

It seems that the new mic. will arrive soon, will try next week with that one.

Looking forward to see new measurements.
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post #4060 of 7033
1/6/13 at 12:57pm
Well, I tried asking in the 3009 thread if they had noticed this issue, and one nice person replied with not noticing it, but another person in the thread attacked my question, so not sure how much help that thread will be.

I would like to take a moment to thank everyone's efforts to help with this 24p " bug " and everyone here to help with efforts, I would really like to keep this receiver, but I have cold feet on believing Onkyo will honor their word, as their word is everything ( well suppose to be ) maybe not anymore, but it's nice to have a forum to have support of other owners and work through issues, or we would all be stuck in the dark.

I bought this receiver to be the statement of leading technology, for one of the best video processing receivers to date, so for this has not worked correctly right out of the box, is not acceptable to me, I have bought too many other things to wait for them to come out with a fix later, I could say that till I'm blue in the face, so this 818 is going back, and I will look for something else, and not take the chance, I already have a good enough 7 channel receiver that's 10 years old, and all I would need is a HDMI switcher for 150 bucks to have some switching between 3 sources....
Edited by TheaterChad - 1/6/13 at 1:11pm
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post #4061 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

What player are you using and what audio setting it have? Seems like you are not sending bitstream to 818. You can press "display" on the remote and it should give you information as to what the "input audio" is. If you are some multichannel (5.1 PCM or 7.1PCM) then your source is decoding the trueHD or Dts-Hdma and your 818 will never show it.

You were right. I had apparently set my blu ray player to PCM back when my 876 lost HDMI capability. Reset it to bitstream and now I get the proper display on the panel.
Thanks Again!
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post #4062 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I don't know. When looking at your data then there are rather large differences between position 1 and 2 which makes it hard to tell how MultEQ would behave with all 8 data points. That's why using only 3 measurements without moving the mic will result in more useful data. Now MultEQ doesn't perform any averaging, it basically acts like a one point equalizing solution.
Looking forward to see new measurements.

Normalization or level matching is the averaging. MultEQ is not one point equalizing, it is one filter equalizing, but this filter has thousands of taps (the order of the filter, or number of coefficients) but this fact is hardly related to the normalization...
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post #4063 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:21pm
FWIW, I was looking at my Sony projector's manual and it only calls out 1080p/24 with a vertical rate of 23.976. It doesn't have an entry for 1080/24p with a vertical rate of exactly 24Hz. It goes on to say that sources using values not in the table may not be displayed correctly. I wonder what my projector would display if I connected it to the 818 when the 818 is exhibiting this issue.

I'm a little confused about the comments of the 818 misbehaving with 1080i/60 content as the Sony seems to state that 1080i/60 with vertical rate of 60 Hz is the only valid one. You only get the 59.94 Hz when you do 480i/60.

Finally, I read something very disappointing about the 818 --- separate from the 24p issue --- which is that you cannot have "per input" audio configurations? Really?
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post #4064 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Normalization or level matching is the averaging. MultEQ is not one point equalizing, it is one filter equalizing, but this filter has thousands of taps (the order of the filter, or number of coefficients) but this fact is hardly related to the normalization...

That's not what I was talking about. If you put the mic at different locations as recommended by Audyssey, then Audyssey uses the differences between those data points to make assumption about the room. This results in a single prototype transfer function which is inverted. This averaging process is Audyssey's IP and undisclosed.
So if you want MultEQ to behave in a way that is reproducible then use one and the same in-room transfer function as the input for MultEQ. This can be achieved by leaving the mic at a single location during calibration. Now MultEQ will perform a single point equalization. The results will always be the same. The uncertainties introduced by the averaging process from multiple data points are removed.

If you want more in-depth information about MultEQ send me a PM with your email address.
Edited by markus767 - 1/6/13 at 1:46pm
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post #4065 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos38 View Post

does the onkyo 1009 have the 24 bug?

I'd be surprised if it didn't. Anything that shares the same HW.
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post #4066 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:51pm
This is what you originally asked-
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

And one more follow-up question...
Can one configure the Monitor Out mode to be specific to an "input"? For example, can I have monitor out be MAIN when using bluray input and monitor out be SUB when using the game1 input?
Much thanks

I answered you "No".

Now you are asking this-
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Finally, I read something very disappointing about the 818 --- separate from the 24p issue --- which is that you cannot have "per input" audio configurations? Really?

These are two fundamentally different questions. If you had of asked that in the first place, you would have received a different answer. So which is it?
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post #4067 of 7033
1/6/13 at 1:59pm
^^^^

Fahrenheit, these are completely independent questions which stand on their own. The first was regarding whether one could have a unique "Monitor out" setting put input, such as game or bluray. The more recently request was whether one could, for example, have the lipsync delay be 120ms for bluray and be only 10ms for game. I spent some time going through the manual and didn't see an obvious list of what settings are per input and which ones are global. Not saying the manual doesn't include this info, just that I didn't see it.

Sorry for the confusion and thanks for spending the time to read (and answer) my questions
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post #4068 of 7033
1/6/13 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Well, I tried asking in the 3009 thread if they had noticed this issue, and one nice person replied with not noticing it, but another person in the thread attacked my question, so not sure how much help that thread will be.
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone's efforts to help with this 24p " bug " and everyone here to help with efforts, I would really like to keep this receiver, but I have cold feet on believing Onkyo will honor their word, as their word is everything ( well suppose to be ) maybe not anymore, but it's nice to have a forum to have support of other owners and work through issues, or we would all be stuck in the dark.
I bought this receiver to be the statement of leading technology, for one of the best video processing receivers to date, so for this has not worked correctly right out of the box, is not acceptable to me, I have bought too many other things to wait for them to come out with a fix later, I could say that till I'm blue in the face, so this 818 is going back, and I will look for something else, and not take the chance, I already have a good enough 7 channel receiver that's 10 years old, and all I would need is a HDMI switcher for 150 bucks to have some switching between 3 sources....
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post #4069 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

^^^^
Fahrenheit, these are completely independent questions which stand on their own.

Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying.

Not sure about lipsync, but there certainly is for audio formats.
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post #4070 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Well, I tried asking in the 3009 thread if they had noticed this issue, and one nice person replied with not noticing it, but another person in the thread attacked my question, so not sure how much help that thread will be.
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone's efforts to help with this 24p " bug " and everyone here to help with efforts, I would really like to keep this receiver, but I have cold feet on believing Onkyo will honor their word, as their word is everything ( well suppose to be ) maybe not anymore, but it's nice to have a forum to have support of other owners and work through issues, or we would all be stuck in the dark.
I bought this receiver to be the statement of leading technology, for one of the best video processing receivers to date, so for this has not worked correctly right out of the box, is not acceptable to me, I have bought too many other things to wait for them to come out with a fix later, I could say that till I'm blue in the face, so this 818 is going back, and I will look for something else, and not take the chance, I already have a good enough 7 channel receiver that's 10 years old, and all I would need is a HDMI switcher for 150 bucks to have some switching between 3 sources....

Theatechad I saw your post and his arrogant answer. You asked a very simple question and deserved a quick professional answer. I have yet to see this issue on my 818 not to say it does not exist as a prior owner of a 3009 I also did not observe it. But with so many seeing it I also was interested in seeing what other Onkyo owners with the same video processors are reporting that was the treason for my visit also to the 3009 thread and just had to bust on him a bit .

My guess is that Onkyo seems not either consider this issue as worth solving or not able to without a recall of affected units. Although I like they're units they have had quite a few issues the last couple of years even having tonrecall certain 0009 units with affected serial numbers last year. So possibly they are not willing to assume the cost of another recall or replacement program again.
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post #4071 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassEtcher View Post

You were right. I had apparently set my blu ray player to PCM back when my 876 lost HDMI capability. Reset it to bitstream and now I get the proper display on the panel.
Thanks Again!
Glad it works now!
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post #4072 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:15pm
VP BUG ISSUE:

well guys i do see it now. i actually have seen it several times since i got my 818 in 60hz mode, but thought it was a hiccup with my dvr. just like the poster who said it disappears if your in direct mode is right on the money. if anybody really wants to see the frame skip just watch some nfl that's currently on.watch the panning shots like a ball thrown or a good run. so two ways around this either run in direct mode or add soe. i bought the 818 for two things, the great vp chips and xt32. i now have a great room corrector, but worthless vp. if you have an dvdo edge i suppose it's no big deal. i don't and the value to me with the 818, and any onkyo product has significantly deflated. ONKYO if you do not fix this or this issue is found in your 13' i promise you i will NEVER by an onkyo avr ever again. i've been with them since the inception of the 805.mad.gif
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post #4073 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

VP BUG ISSUE:
well guys i do see it now. i actually have seen it several times since i got my 818 in 60hz mode, but thought it was a hiccup with my dvr. just like the poster who said it disappears if your in direct mode is right on the money. if anybody really wants to see the frame skip just watch some nfl that's currently on.watch the panning shots like a ball thrown or a good run. so two ways around this either run in direct mode or add soe. i bought the 818 for two things, the great vp chips and xt32. i now have a great room corrector, but worthless vp. if you have an dvdo edge i suppose it's no big deal. i don't and the value to me with the 818, and any onkyo product has significantly deflated. ONKYO if you do not fix this or this issue is found in your 13' i promise you i will NEVER by an onkyo avr ever again. i've been with them since the inception of the 805.mad.gif

I thought this issue was only for content that is 1080p/24 before it gets to the 818? Fox definitely doesn't broadcast in 1080p (nor does any other channel that I'm aware of). Confused as to how the bug would appear in this instance? I thought this was only an issue with Blu Ray.
Edited by KK in CT - 1/6/13 at 3:41pm
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post #4074 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post


It also converts 59.94 sources into 60fps. If the nfl is a 720p broadcast at 59.94, then it would also be affected I guess.
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post #4075 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

I thought this issue was only for content that is 1080p/24 before it gets to the 818? Fox definitely doesn't broadcast in 1080p (nor does any other channel that I'm aware of). Confused as to how the bug would appear in this instance? I thought this was only an issue with Blu Ray.

someone dicovered it in 60hz mode as well. your right fox is 720p, but remember the vp is upconverting to 1080p.
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post #4076 of 7033
1/6/13 at 3:54pm
Everyone who is complaining here but who has not yet complained in the Onkyo thread, get on it! http://forums.onkyousa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138
Edited by cytoSiN - 1/6/13 at 4:03pm
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post #4077 of 7033
1/6/13 at 8:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Everyone who is complaining here but who has not yet complained in the Onkyo thread, get on it! http://forums.onkyousa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138

It doesn't
Matter. They probably aren't going to fix it. They did fix a similar bug on a higher end 2011 model but it took them around nine months to do so. Best thing is to use sub out till a better non onkyo AVR is available later this year and buy that. Then dump the onkyo on eBay.
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post #4078 of 7033
1/6/13 at 8:45pm
Which video mode provides the least amount of processing ? I thought it was "Through" but then others are mentioning "Direct"

What's the difference between these two modes ?
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post #4079 of 7033
1/6/13 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Theatechad I saw your post and his arrogant answer. You asked a very simple question and deserved a quick professional answer. I have yet to see this issue on my 818 not to say it does not exist as a prior owner of a 3009 I also did not observe it. But with so many seeing it I also was interested in seeing what other Onkyo owners with the same video processors are reporting that was the treason for my visit also to the 3009 thread and just had to bust on him a bit .
My guess is that Onkyo seems not either consider this issue as worth solving or not able to without a recall of affected units. Although I like they're units they have had quite a few issues the last couple of years even having tonrecall certain 0009 units with affected serial numbers last year. So possibly they are not willing to assume the cost of another recall or replacement program again.

Hey William,

Well, it's no big deal on that guys reply to my post in the 3009 thread, it happens in threads that people don't really read someone's initial question, and reply away, I took his reply very badly, as this bug has elevated my frustration to a big degree, so in the end of it, it was no big deal.

I have given up on this effort, like my previous post above states, I have boxed up my 818, and I will get a 100 percent refund on my return, and I can buy something else, somewhere else at another time, and that's the most happy I can be, other than I'm really bummed out this receiver did not work out, especially after waiting 1 year for a new receiver....Thx.

Airgas!:

Sorry to hear you see this too, even in 60p processing, yikes, this is starting to hurt.....Hopefully this works out with a resolution....
Edited by TheaterChad - 1/6/13 at 10:40pm
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post #4080 of 7033
1/7/13 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Which video mode provides the least amount of processing ? I thought it was "Through" but then others are mentioning "Direct"
What's the difference between these two modes ?
To be honest, I think the manual is confusing. Under resolution, through means "select this to pass video through at the same resolution with no conversion"... However, if you are talking about picture mode, then "through" means "does not adjust picture quality (changes resolution), while direct means no resolution changes.
I think I did some experiment with some 720p input and found that:
If you set resolution to through in monitor out, then it does not matter direct or through you set in picture mode. It pass through.
However, if you set resolution to source, then in picture mode, direct will keep resolution while through will change resolution.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion