Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 137

H I am watching CBS at 720p with DISH. I am using through as resolution, and my VP do show 59.94 from 818. This is with HDMI main.
I do see the 24.94 to 24p issue though, but I don't see it with 720p signal.

+1

My UBT-1 autoswitches to USB whenever my phone tries to connect, even when I'm already using another input, e.g. watching TV or Blu-Ray. To make matters worse, the range is very poor compared to my other Bluetooth devices. If I walk around the room, my phone often disconnects and reconnects, and the input is hijacked repeatedly. Very annoying indeed.

BTW, does anyone know if it's possible to change the volume control to do 1dB steps? I don't like the 0.5 steps. I can probably program my Harmony One to do that, but I'm just wondering if there's an easier/faster way.

OK now I am worried.

My 818 has not arrived yet.
I am considering sending it back unopened and getting a Yamaha.

- Rich

Got the 818 hooked up over the weekend and it works great for me. However, i am running into an issue that maybe is being caused by the 818. Every since i hooked it up to my Panasonic TX-50PZ800U, i get a flashing red light on the TV. When this happens i can 't turn the tv on or off. Even when i unplug the TV the red light is flashing on the TV. I haven't counted the red flashes of light on the Panasonic to help determine what it is. But, So far, i have been able to get the tv to come back on after a few mins. of unplugging the TV and plugging it back in, holding in power on the TV etc.

I have done some research on the web and some are saying it could be HDMI related, that i should put the main out from the 818 to HDMI 3 on the TV. Something to do with 5v power coming from the cable or something.. I tend to think this could be true for a couple of reasons.

I didn't have the problem until I hooked the 818 up. Also, i noticed that when i turn the 818 off and leave the TV on I'm still getting a picture on the TV from my satellite dish, even though the 818 is off. I only have the one cable going from the main out on the 818 to the HDMI 1 on the TV. Does this seem strange to anyone? Is it because i have the video as Through on the Onkyo that it allows the video and sound to pass straight to the TV even thought the Onkyo is in standby?



I haven't been able to mess with it this morning. I'm going to try changing the order in which things are turned on as well as changing HDMI cable from the Receiver to the TV.

Has anyone else maybe heard of this situation with a new receiver and a Panasonic? Is there a video setting on the 818 that someone might think would help?

Thanksk 6sj7gt! Makes perfect sense!!

I have been unable to find anything that shows the amplifier output of the 818 to all channels driven. I'm considering an Emotiva UPA-700 before the sale is over mid-month. Has anyone seen an all channels driven spec sheet out there?

Not sure, I think I might of read 100-105. I use the 818 as a pre-amp with marantz 200 watt monoblocks and I could not be happier.

Nobody else has experienced the chirp?

I understand that it is impossible to detect speaker resonance frequency for Audyssey, so it relies on acoustic measurements only. This is not 'precise' but basically works more or less, but still there is acoustical roll-off and it should not be even tried to be compensated and any boost below this frequency is unfavorable.

I searched old topics and it seems this issue comes from time to time (but before the graphs was only provided for subwoofer channel). The interesting part is that this boost seems always to happen with exactly +10dB level. Now I understand that this is from normalization process, but it is a bug in this process in the first place. What happens is something like this - Audyssey measures and detects -3bB point, then creates a filter. It happens that this filter corrects ALL the range above F3 by ONLY ATTENUATING with the average weighted response 10dB lower. Then it matches the level. This is where you are talking there is no boost. But there is a boost. It is the same thing at the end. If you choose some frequency then attenuate everything above by 10dB and then add 10dB to whole range - the net result is boosting below that frequency by 10dB, so I do not care about the process that made this boost, there is a boost and it is petty clear on the graph.

To the question how this should work from my perspective - as long as there is the same perceived loudness the frequencies below F3 should not be boosted compared to the unequalized signal. If there is normalization process the filter should take into account this. It is definitely not right that correction is done by attenuating everything above F3.

And. Good news - mic from Chris arrived. Recalibrated with it as you said - 3x times the same point.
The good part. Front Left is only boosting 6dB instead of 10dB (probably caused by less correction in HF range).
As a result - still too bright to my taste, but sounds somehow listenable (not harsh and distorted). When watching the racing scene from Star Wars Episode I at reference level I don't feel like tweeters will blow away, the voices in the Jesus Christ Superstar don't sound like moved one octave higher. All listening is with crossovers moved to 80Hz where they set lower by AVR (sorry have not saved measurements for front this time).

The bad news. 10dB boost to 6dB boost "improvement" happened only with front channel. Center and surround channels are still suffering with full 10dB boost bellow F3.
So, while I cannot hear immediately the effect of this, this still defeats the purpose of crossovers to exempt amplifier and speakers from work on that hard range and minimize any possible distortion as Audyssey brings the range bellow F3 pretty much to the original level (sometimes more, sometimes less). Definitely still *very* bad and simply unacceptable and dangerous for those who have no subwoofer in the system. And if same is happening with subwoofer then is dangerous for subwoofer itself (I have to measure mine too later, but I have read report from some user who who burned his sub few years ago just because of this boost).

My graphs for the Center channel:


The Right Surround:


Red is Audyssey. The curves above are electrical response, below are acoustical.
Electrical response is shown with high pass filters from crossovers set by AVR by the Audyssey calibration process.
Acoustical response is full-range unfiltered.
Edited by IgorZep - 1/7/13 at 2:09pm

never seen or heard of this.

What exactly do I lose if I use the sub monitor out ? Only the OSD? I have looked thru the forum and haven't seen where some lone listed what you are missing out on aside from the video processing.

What program and MIC are you guys using to get these graphs? I'm curious about how my room measures. Is it the mic that comes with the receiver hooked up to a laptop with a special purchased program?

Here's a link that might be of interest to you;

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs

Thank-you. Pretty sure this is the program. From what I read so far, I can run this program with an HDMI cable hooked up to my receiver from my laptop. I'll probably just use my receiver mic just to see what it does and get a calibrated usb mic with calibration file later.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Thanks for these. What can be seen is that MultEQ tries to match the acoustic in-room high pass slope expected by bass management. In most situations this creates a slight boost below the speaker's in-room -3dB point. Again, this has nothing to do with the -3dB point of the speaker or it's mechanical/electrical capabilities.

In your case there're obviously huge 30dB dips between 30-50Hz, probably caused by room modes. When MultEQ tries its "slope-matching" a larger than usual boost in the MultEQ filter occurs. Again, this is not a bug but how MultEQ works. If you expect it to work differently you'd need to discuss that with Auydssey.

I'd recommend moving speakers and/or listening position within your room to get rid of the huge dips. Then run Audyssey again.

Do you have a floor plan of your room? Where are speakers and listener located?

P.S. Is your measuring mic calibrated? The rising response at higher frequencies is unusual.

This "target acoustic in-room high pass slope" seems like a lot optimistic for any reasonable speaker design. Look at the center speaker graph, while it have two sharp nulls between 40-50 Hz the level at 30 Hz and below more than you could expect from any speaker natural roll-off, Aydy is still boost there, but to match it to any reasonable speaker slope (Chris says it is 4th order, on graph it seems more like 1st) it should be heavily attenuating at this point, but it still boosts at the whole 10dB... Absolutely not in line with this explanation.

I can't move speakers and listening position too much. But considering that I already have 5 speakers at pretty different positions and all of them are suffering - it hardly will change anything. I have had also very different placements for fronts some time ago (they were placed unreasonably wide, and the furniture in room was differently placed. Still the issue was there.

The mic is not individually calibrated. It is the ECM8000 with generic profile (for off-axis measurements, pointing to the ceiling as with Audy mic). More or less measurements of the fronts (if not looking to the LF range) matches those that are published by respected magazines, and I feel myself that it is too bright after Audy (pretty exactly to the amount of this rising), so I tend to believe that the my ECM8000 is pretty close to specs and within allowed 2dB error. But I cannot be 100% sure.

How large is your room? Do you have a floor plan? Where are speakers and listener located?

Markus, 17m2, speakers along the long wall.
No floor plan, but here is the picture of fronts:

A bit old, but pretty accurate. The table is not there when calibrating/listening. All three speakers now moved a bit to the center of the room. And there is a little more space between "towers" on the sides.
No more pictures at the moment...

Is the couch and listening position against the back wall?
Did Audyssey raise or lower the gain for your speakers in the speaker level menu?

I'm running an 818 with a 7 channel setup. No heights or wides. I just picked up a set of older B&W 600 series speakers (fronts, center and surrounds) keeping my definitive 1000's for rear surround. Considering adding an external amp. Likely Emotiva. My question is it it better or more preferred to amplify the front three or 5 channels and allow the 818 to run the rear surrounds? Looking for opinions or other considerations.

Thanks for any feedback.

Yes, it is against the back wall. The measurements are done right in front of the couch, so the mic has enough space from the wall.
Audyssey lowers gain to -7dB.

I've got my 818 running my 5 speakers from BIC Acoustech and I have another pair of dipole rear surrounds from Aperion and the 818 powers them JUST fine...clear sound at a very loud sound (not too mention the 2 subs I have connected). Not sure you need an external amp.

I have a question about using the onkyo as a pre/pro...how does it know not to use its amps? is it just by having the RCA's in the outputs on the back?

The reason I ask, is because i am wondering if it is possible to have the receiver use its own amps to drive the channels during say TV watching, but use the external amp to drive the speakers for movies and music? is this possible?

I am just trying to get rid of one step to make it easier o n the wife to watch tv without using hdmi passthrough and also without having to keep the harmony one aimed at the TV for another step.

2nd question is...how do I setup a macro on the harmony one to go to zone 2 and turn that on to trigger the 12v on for the amp? thanks in advance!!

"The reason I ask, is because i am wondering if it is possible to have the receiver use its own amps to drive the channels during say TV watching, but use the external amp to drive the speakers for movies and music? is this possible?"

no...

Any one else get a firmware update tonight? I previously did the 7/24 update. This update installed quickly. Checked the Onkyo USA site and nothing after 7/24 is shown.

Not sure but I'll go check.

The general idea is the more powerful amps drive the fronts where most of the 'action' is.

Whether you actually need more power is another question, here many get Emo but many also question if ext. amp is really needed to get the desired SPL in your listening position. The B&Ws aren't hard to drive particularly. So no rush, just see how the 818 performs on its own.

Having said that I use the 818 for the surrounds only. The 818 should drive the four surrounds comfortably and I've always felt using ext. amps for the fronts only is more cost effective, or put it another way, using ext. amps for the surrounds is wasteful/overkill.

Also note this thread about the low output of the 818 pre-outs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448461/onkyo-818-pre-out-connection-rating

While I don't have the means to measure it it DOES corroborate with my own impression compared to another AVR (Arcam). With 818 as pre-amp I have to turn up the volume on the Arcam from about 30 to 65 on it's scale to match all speakers.

Nothing new on mine. What version number does yours say? Mines 1100-7101-0100-0000

Exactly the same as yours.

Strange. I had turned the unit off and on a couple of times trying to test my amp trigger.

Thanks for checking.