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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 137

post #4081 of 9553
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

someone dicovered it in 60hz mode as well. your right fox is 720p, but remember the vp is upconverting to 1080p.
I am watching CBS at 720p with DISH. I am using through as resolution, and my VP do show 59.94 from 818. This is with HDMI main.
I do see the 24.94 to 24p issue though, but I don't see it with 720p signal.
post #4082 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by keef95 View Post

My Onkyo UBT-1 is really annoying me. I'm running it through the rear USB as I don't want my cover open all the time. When USB on the receiver is not selected it connects with my phone (iPhone 4S) automatically so hijacks the audio including ringtones from the phone. It always shows "Pairing" even after it pairs and is displaying "Chris's iPhone" on the line above and display. I don't want to have to turn off Bluetooth on the phone as all my vehicles have Bluetooth and streaming audio and I forget to turn it back on. After screwing with it (rear USB isn't convenient to get to) it now shows "No Storage"... Am I doing something wrong or is there a better Bluetooth solution for the 818, I love it when it works as I have 3000 songs on my phone and really sounds good...
+1

My UBT-1 autoswitches to USB whenever my phone tries to connect, even when I'm already using another input, e.g. watching TV or Blu-Ray. To make matters worse, the range is very poor compared to my other Bluetooth devices. If I walk around the room, my phone often disconnects and reconnects, and the input is hijacked repeatedly. Very annoying indeed.

BTW, does anyone know if it's possible to change the volume control to do 1dB steps? I don't like the 0.5 steps. I can probably program my Harmony One to do that, but I'm just wondering if there's an easier/faster way.
post #4083 of 9553
OK now I am worried.

My 818 has not arrived yet.
I am considering sending it back unopened and getting a Yamaha.

- Rich
post #4084 of 9553
Got the 818 hooked up over the weekend and it works great for me. However, i am running into an issue that maybe is being caused by the 818. Every since i hooked it up to my Panasonic TX-50PZ800U, i get a flashing red light on the TV. When this happens i can 't turn the tv on or off. Even when i unplug the TV the red light is flashing on the TV. I haven't counted the red flashes of light on the Panasonic to help determine what it is. But, So far, i have been able to get the tv to come back on after a few mins. of unplugging the TV and plugging it back in, holding in power on the TV etc.

I have done some research on the web and some are saying it could be HDMI related, that i should put the main out from the 818 to HDMI 3 on the TV. Something to do with 5v power coming from the cable or something.. I tend to think this could be true for a couple of reasons.

I didn't have the problem until I hooked the 818 up. Also, i noticed that when i turn the 818 off and leave the TV on I'm still getting a picture on the TV from my satellite dish, even though the 818 is off. I only have the one cable going from the main out on the 818 to the HDMI 1 on the TV. Does this seem strange to anyone? Is it because i have the video as Through on the Onkyo that it allows the video and sound to pass straight to the TV even thought the Onkyo is in standby?



I haven't been able to mess with it this morning. I'm going to try changing the order in which things are turned on as well as changing HDMI cable from the Receiver to the TV.

Has anyone else maybe heard of this situation with a new receiver and a Panasonic? Is there a video setting on the 818 that someone might think would help?
post #4085 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6sj7gt View Post

If you are streaming to the Express using iTunes from your iPhone then you are streaming the music directly from your iPhone.
Remember that you will only see DTS on the 818's display if the music source is already DTS encoded. I am not aware of any iTunes Music that is. If you are streaming content from iTunes on your iPhone it is almost certainly two channel stereo.
The fact that you see DTS momentarily indicates that the AirPlay connection is detected correctly, but as soon as you play a stereo track, the display correctly indicates the actual audio encoding: stereo.
DTS is more likely to be useful when streaming from DTS encoded content using an Apple TV, not iTunes music. An Apple TV is likely to have a lot more DTS content available.

Thanksk 6sj7gt! Makes perfect sense!!
post #4086 of 9553
I have been unable to find anything that shows the amplifier output of the 818 to all channels driven. I'm considering an Emotiva UPA-700 before the sale is over mid-month. Has anyone seen an all channels driven spec sheet out there?
post #4087 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by cainman View Post

I have been unable to find anything that shows the amplifier output of the 818 to all channels driven. I'm considering an Emotiva UPA-700 before the sale is over mid-month. Has anyone seen an all channels driven spec sheet out there?


Not sure, I think I might of read 100-105. I use the 818 as a pre-amp with marantz 200 watt monoblocks and I could not be happier.
post #4088 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

Anyone else experiencing a "chirp" noise with their receiver. Whenever I turn on the receiver to watch television (Pioneer Plasma) and switch to the Cbl/Sat input to watch (through my Motorola Cable Box and Comcast) I get a loud noticeable chirp sound through the speakers - my wife thought maybe we had a bird in the house the first time it happened. This generally happens only when I first switch over the the input, after a few seconds, but has happened on one or two other occasions when I simply turned up the volume after having watched for a bit. I have not yet determined if this happens when I use the BD input to watch through by PlayStation 3 or when I listen to Pandora through the Net or an ipod through the USB, but plan to explore that this weekend.
I am running 5.1 and my front speakers are Def Tech SM65's. I don't think it is a speaker issue as this did not happen with my Denon receiver but I have another pair of speakers I can hook up to see if it is limited to the Def Techs. I can't tell if it is coming from the surrounds as well as they are ceiling mounted.
I never experienced the chirp with any prior equipment.
I have seen some reports of chirps with other Onkyo receivers but nothing in this thread.
I have contacted Onkyo but not received a response as of yet. I tried calling but the wait time was excessive.
I have had the receiver a few weeks and am still within my 30 day return time.

Nobody else has experienced the chirp?
post #4089 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

You are confusing two different topics. Boosting below the speakers resonance frequency is nonsense. But, the in-room -3dB point has nothing to do with the speaker's electrical and/or mechanical properties. It's virtually impossible to determine the resonance frequency of a speaker by measuring it's in-room response at the listening position.

I understand that it is impossible to detect speaker resonance frequency for Audyssey, so it relies on acoustic measurements only. This is not 'precise' but basically works more or less, but still there is acoustical roll-off and it should not be even tried to be compensated and any boost below this frequency is unfavorable.

I searched old topics and it seems this issue comes from time to time (but before the graphs was only provided for subwoofer channel). The interesting part is that this boost seems always to happen with exactly +10dB level. Now I understand that this is from normalization process, but it is a bug in this process in the first place. What happens is something like this - Audyssey measures and detects -3bB point, then creates a filter. It happens that this filter corrects ALL the range above F3 by ONLY ATTENUATING with the average weighted response 10dB lower. Then it matches the level. This is where you are talking there is no boost. But there is a boost. It is the same thing at the end. If you choose some frequency then attenuate everything above by 10dB and then add 10dB to whole range - the net result is boosting below that frequency by 10dB, so I do not care about the process that made this boost, there is a boost and it is petty clear on the graph.

To the question how this should work from my perspective - as long as there is the same perceived loudness the frequencies below F3 should not be boosted compared to the unequalized signal. If there is normalization process the filter should take into account this. It is definitely not right that correction is done by attenuating everything above F3.

And. Good news - mic from Chris arrived. Recalibrated with it as you said - 3x times the same point.
The good part. Front Left is only boosting 6dB instead of 10dB (probably caused by less correction in HF range).
As a result - still too bright to my taste, but sounds somehow listenable (not harsh and distorted). When watching the racing scene from Star Wars Episode I at reference level I don't feel like tweeters will blow away, the voices in the Jesus Christ Superstar don't sound like moved one octave higher. All listening is with crossovers moved to 80Hz where they set lower by AVR (sorry have not saved measurements for front this time).

The bad news. 10dB boost to 6dB boost "improvement" happened only with front channel. Center and surround channels are still suffering with full 10dB boost bellow F3. frown.gif
So, while I cannot hear immediately the effect of this, this still defeats the purpose of crossovers to exempt amplifier and speakers from work on that hard range and minimize any possible distortion as Audyssey brings the range bellow F3 pretty much to the original level (sometimes more, sometimes less). Definitely still *very* bad and simply unacceptable and dangerous for those who have no subwoofer in the system. And if same is happening with subwoofer then is dangerous for subwoofer itself (I have to measure mine too later, but I have read report from some user who who burned his sub few years ago just because of this boost).

My graphs for the Center channel:


The Right Surround:


Red is Audyssey. The curves above are electrical response, below are acoustical.
Electrical response is shown with high pass filters from crossovers set by AVR by the Audyssey calibration process.
Acoustical response is full-range unfiltered.
Edited by IgorZep - 1/7/13 at 2:09pm
post #4090 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

Nobody else has experienced the chirp?

never seen or heard of this.
post #4091 of 9553
What exactly do I lose if I use the sub monitor out ? Only the OSD? I have looked thru the forum and haven't seen where some lone listed what you are missing out on aside from the video processing.
post #4092 of 9553
What program and MIC are you guys using to get these graphs? I'm curious about how my room measures. Is it the mic that comes with the receiver hooked up to a laptop with a special purchased program?
post #4093 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat76 View Post

What program and MIC are you guys using to get these graphs? I'm curious about how my room measures. Is it the mic that comes with the receiver hooked up to a laptop with a special purchased program?

Here's a link that might be of interest to you;

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs
post #4094 of 9553

Thank-you. Pretty sure this is the program. From what I read so far, I can run this program with an HDMI cable hooked up to my receiver from my laptop. I'll probably just use my receiver mic just to see what it does and get a calibrated usb mic with calibration file later.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
post #4095 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

My graphs for the Center channel:
[...]
The Right Surround:
[...]
Red is Audyssey. The curves above are electrical response, below are acoustical.
Electrical response is shown with high pass filters from crossovers set by AVR by the Audyssey calibration process.
Acoustical response is full-range unfiltered.

Thanks for these. What can be seen is that MultEQ tries to match the acoustic in-room high pass slope expected by bass management. In most situations this creates a slight boost below the speaker's in-room -3dB point. Again, this has nothing to do with the -3dB point of the speaker or it's mechanical/electrical capabilities.

In your case there're obviously huge 30dB dips between 30-50Hz, probably caused by room modes. When MultEQ tries its "slope-matching" a larger than usual boost in the MultEQ filter occurs. Again, this is not a bug but how MultEQ works. If you expect it to work differently you'd need to discuss that with Auydssey.

I'd recommend moving speakers and/or listening position within your room to get rid of the huge dips. Then run Audyssey again.

Do you have a floor plan of your room? Where are speakers and listener located?

P.S. Is your measuring mic calibrated? The rising response at higher frequencies is unusual.
post #4096 of 9553
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp121h View Post

What exactly do I lose if I use the sub monitor out ? Only the OSD? I have looked thru the forum and haven't seen where some lone listed what you are missing out on aside from the video processing.

Yes, you lose OSD and you lose all video processing on the sub-out. Basically you are just using the 818 as a video switcher at that point. You do get on screen volume control, but that's it.
post #4097 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Thanks for these. What can be seen is that MultEQ tries to match the acoustic in-room high pass slope expected by bass management. In most situations this creates a slight boost below the speaker's in-room -3dB point. Again, this has nothing to do with the -3dB point of the speaker or it's mechanical/electrical capabilities.
In your case there're obviously huge 30dB dips between 30-50Hz, probably caused by room modes. When MultEQ tries its "slope-matching" a larger than usual boost in the MultEQ filter occurs. Again, this is not a bug but how MultEQ works. If you expect it to work differently you'd need to discuss that with Auydssey.
I'd recommend moving speakers and/or listening position within your room to get rid of the huge dips. Then run Audyssey again.
Do you have a floor plan of your room? Where are speakers and listener located?
P.S. Is your measuring mic calibrated? The rising response at higher frequencies is unusual.

This "target acoustic in-room high pass slope" seems like a lot optimistic for any reasonable speaker design. Look at the center speaker graph, while it have two sharp nulls between 40-50 Hz the level at 30 Hz and below more than you could expect from any speaker natural roll-off, Aydy is still boost there, but to match it to any reasonable speaker slope (Chris says it is 4th order, on graph it seems more like 1st) it should be heavily attenuating at this point, but it still boosts at the whole 10dB... Absolutely not in line with this explanation.

I can't move speakers and listening position too much. But considering that I already have 5 speakers at pretty different positions and all of them are suffering - it hardly will change anything. I have had also very different placements for fronts some time ago (they were placed unreasonably wide, and the furniture in room was differently placed. Still the issue was there.

The mic is not individually calibrated. It is the ECM8000 with generic profile (for off-axis measurements, pointing to the ceiling as with Audy mic). More or less measurements of the fronts (if not looking to the LF range) matches those that are published by respected magazines, and I feel myself that it is too bright after Audy (pretty exactly to the amount of this rising), so I tend to believe that the my ECM8000 is pretty close to specs and within allowed 2dB error. But I cannot be 100% sure.
post #4098 of 9553
How large is your room? Do you have a floor plan? Where are speakers and listener located?
post #4099 of 9553
Markus, 17m2, speakers along the long wall.
No floor plan, but here is the picture of fronts:

A bit old, but pretty accurate. The table is not there when calibrating/listening. All three speakers now moved a bit to the center of the room. And there is a little more space between "towers" on the sides.
No more pictures at the moment...
post #4100 of 9553
Is the couch and listening position against the back wall?
Did Audyssey raise or lower the gain for your speakers in the speaker level menu?
post #4101 of 9553
I'm running an 818 with a 7 channel setup. No heights or wides. I just picked up a set of older B&W 600 series speakers (fronts, center and surrounds) keeping my definitive 1000's for rear surround. Considering adding an external amp. Likely Emotiva. My question is it it better or more preferred to amplify the front three or 5 channels and allow the 818 to run the rear surrounds? Looking for opinions or other considerations.

Thanks for any feedback.
post #4102 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Is the couch and listening position against the back wall?
Did Audyssey raise or lower the gain for your speakers in the speaker level menu?

Yes, it is against the back wall. The measurements are done right in front of the couch, so the mic has enough space from the wall.
Audyssey lowers gain to -7dB.
post #4103 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by cainman View Post

I'm running an 818 with a 7 channel setup. No heights or wides. I just picked up a set of older B&W 600 series speakers (fronts, center and surrounds) keeping my definitive 1000's for rear surround. Considering adding an external amp. Likely Emotiva. My question is it it better or more preferred to amplify the front three or 5 channels and allow the 818 to run the rear surrounds? Looking for opinions or other considerations.
Thanks for any feedback.
I've got my 818 running my 5 speakers from BIC Acoustech and I have another pair of dipole rear surrounds from Aperion and the 818 powers them JUST fine...clear sound at a very loud sound (not too mention the 2 subs I have connected). Not sure you need an external amp.
post #4104 of 9553
I have a question about using the onkyo as a pre/pro...how does it know not to use its amps? is it just by having the RCA's in the outputs on the back?

The reason I ask, is because i am wondering if it is possible to have the receiver use its own amps to drive the channels during say TV watching, but use the external amp to drive the speakers for movies and music? is this possible?

I am just trying to get rid of one step to make it easier o n the wife to watch tv without using hdmi passthrough and also without having to keep the harmony one aimed at the TV for another step.

2nd question is...how do I setup a macro on the harmony one to go to zone 2 and turn that on to trigger the 12v on for the amp? thanks in advance!!
post #4105 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I have a question about using the onkyo as a pre/pro...how does it know not to use its amps? is it just by having the RCA's in the outputs on the back?
The reason I ask, is because i am wondering if it is possible to have the receiver use its own amps to drive the channels during say TV watching, but use the external amp to drive the speakers for movies and music? is this possible?
I am just trying to get rid of one step to make it easier o n the wife to watch tv without using hdmi passthrough and also without having to keep the harmony one aimed at the TV for another step.
2nd question is...how do I setup a macro on the harmony one to go to zone 2 and turn that on to trigger the 12v on for the amp? thanks in advance!!

"The reason I ask, is because i am wondering if it is possible to have the receiver use its own amps to drive the channels during say TV watching, but use the external amp to drive the speakers for movies and music? is this possible?"

no...
post #4106 of 9553
Any one else get a firmware update tonight? I previously did the 7/24 update. This update installed quickly. Checked the Onkyo USA site and nothing after 7/24 is shown.
post #4107 of 9553
Not sure but I'll go check.
post #4108 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by cainman View Post

I'm running an 818 with a 7 channel setup. No heights or wides. I just picked up a set of older B&W 600 series speakers (fronts, center and surrounds) keeping my definitive 1000's for rear surround. Considering adding an external amp. Likely Emotiva. My question is it it better or more preferred to amplify the front three or 5 channels and allow the 818 to run the rear surrounds? Looking for opinions or other considerations.

The general idea is the more powerful amps drive the fronts where most of the 'action' is.

Whether you actually need more power is another question, here many get Emo but many also question if ext. amp is really needed to get the desired SPL in your listening position. The B&Ws aren't hard to drive particularly. So no rush, just see how the 818 performs on its own.

Having said that I use the 818 for the surrounds only. The 818 should drive the four surrounds comfortably and I've always felt using ext. amps for the fronts only is more cost effective, or put it another way, using ext. amps for the surrounds is wasteful/overkill.

Also note this thread about the low output of the 818 pre-outs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448461/onkyo-818-pre-out-connection-rating

While I don't have the means to measure it it DOES corroborate with my own impression compared to another AVR (Arcam). With 818 as pre-amp I have to turn up the volume on the Arcam from about 30 to 65 on it's scale to match all speakers.
post #4109 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlvca View Post

Any one else get a firmware update tonight? I previously did the 7/24 update. This update installed quickly. Checked the Onkyo USA site and nothing after 7/24 is shown.

Nothing new on mine. What version number does yours say? Mines 1100-7101-0100-0000
post #4110 of 9553
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Nothing new on mine. What version number does yours say? Mines 1100-7101-0100-0000

Exactly the same as yours.

Strange. I had turned the unit off and on a couple of times trying to test my amp trigger.

Thanks for checking.
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