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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 140

post #4171 of 9516
Just out of curiousity, if I am using THX cinema mode with Audyssey, am I supposed to select the music flat curve as the movie curve EQs the highs which THX is already doing?
post #4172 of 9516
Hello.I see only PCM on my receiver from my PS3 when playing Blurays,how to get DTS MA or HD to be displayed on the front panel?(Bitstream is set to mix on ps3)...i dont know what i am doing wrong.thank you for your help
post #4173 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRams View Post

Rarding the1080/24p issue:

I've tried to educating myself about this issue, and according to wikipedia (which might not always be the best source) 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM.
It seems to me that 23.976 FPS appers when transfering a 24p movie (which is the standard) to NTSC television (60i, standard in USA and Canada).

In believe that in Europe (and Asia) where we use the PAL system, Blu-ray movies are sold with the original 24p move frame rate, thus avoiding the 23.976 issue.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate:


24p is a progressive format and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. Film and video makers use 24p even if their productions are not going to be transferred to film, simply because of the on-screen "look" of the (low) frame rate which matches native film. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 FPS (24×1000÷1001 to be exact), and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 FPS. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM. The 24 FPS rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s.[4] Practically all hand-drawn animation is designed to be played at 24 FPS. Actually hand-drawing 24 unique frames per second ("1's") is costly. Even in big budget films usually hand-draw animation shooting on "2's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown twice, so only 12 unique frames per second)[6][7] and some animation is even drawn on "4's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown four times, so only six unique frames per second).

60i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for NTSC television (e.g., in the US), whether from a broadcast signal, DVD, or home camcorder. This interlaced field rate was developed separately by Farnsworth and Zworykin in 1934,[12] and was part of the NTSC television standards mandated by the FCC in 1941. When NTSC color was introduced in 1953, the older rate of 60 fields per second was reduced by a factor of 1000/1001 to avoid interference between the chroma subcarrier and the broadcast sound carrier. (Hence the usual designation "29.97 fps" = 30 frames(60 fields)/1.001)

As I already tested the same movies the other guys mentioned before, I really could not detect any problems in our PAL area. While other guys in the US had problems with those movies on BD, which we all used to test. Same settings ... So I again guess it has to be related to the NTSC format. I know 4 people in 4 different countries with the same receiver. 2 guys in the US had this "24p" problem while my other friend in Germany (also PAL) did not see anything at all, just like me..
post #4174 of 9516
Whats the best settings to watch movies?what settings do you use guys?
post #4175 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by mar83cin View Post

Hello.I see only PCM on my receiver from my PS3 when playing Blurays,how to get DTS MA or HD to be displayed on the front panel?(Bitstream is set to mix on ps3)...i dont know what i am doing wrong.thank you for your help

Did you also tried other BD's? Does it has anything to do with the source? I also have bitstream set to mix on my ps3 and DTS is beeing displayed at my AVR.
post #4176 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I've attached 2 .mkv files with moving bars that should make the 24fps bug visible. One file is 23.976fps the other 24fps.

MovingBars.zip 273k .zip file
(Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/11305610-post1.html)

Great!

Now, to make it as easy as pie for the Onkyo support people --- someone should turn this into a DVD and make an ISO...
post #4177 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Great!

Now, to make it as easy as pie for the Onkyo support people --- someone should turn this into a DVD and make an ISO...

Then Onkyo will say "you need to provide us with a DVD player" or better yet they'll claim the DVD player is causing the issue!
post #4178 of 9516
What flavor of PS3 do you have? I have one of the old school "fatty" models and they do not send bitstream output despite being set that way. That's when I went out and picked up an Oppo player.
post #4179 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by legbreaker View Post

Did you also tried other BD's? Does it has anything to do with the source? I also have bitstream set to mix on my ps3 and DTS is beeing displayed at my AVR.

Yes i did try other Blurays.it shows DTS but not HD.just on its own,PCM is on the front panel all the time...thank you for your respond.
post #4180 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by cainman View Post

What flavor of PS3 do you have? I have one of the old school "fatty" models and they do not send bitstream output despite being set that way. That's when I went out and picked up an Oppo player.


it is PS3 slim 250GB
post #4181 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by mar83cin View Post

it is PS3 slim 250GB

There are a couple places to set audio up on the PS3. One of them allows you to choose bitstream or PCM output, set it to bitstream.

The other is where you can choose the output formats, and if you are connected via HDMI the PS3 unit can do it automatically for you....it will "ping" the receiver to see the formats it supports and will automatically choose the same on the PS3 itself.

How-to: https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/788/~/change-ps3-audio-output-settings

Note when playing games the PS3 ONLY outputs PCM, this is normal. I went through the "auto" setup, made sure my audio was output as bitstream instead of PCM and now my Onkyo (its an 809 not 818 but probably doesnt make a difference) reads the exact format of the disc.....DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, etc. It also automatically switches between PCM and whatever format is coming (via bitstream) when changing from game to BR and vice versa.
post #4182 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisexv6 View Post

There are a couple places to set audio up on the PS3. One of them allows you to choose bitstream or PCM output, set it to bitstream.

The other is where you can choose the output formats, and if you are connected via HDMI the PS3 unit can do it automatically for you....it will "ping" the receiver to see the formats it supports and will automatically choose the same on the PS3 itself.

How-to: https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/788/~/change-ps3-audio-output-settings

Note when playing games the PS3 ONLY outputs PCM, this is normal. I went through the "auto" setup, made sure my audio was output as bitstream instead of PCM and now my Onkyo (its an 809 not 818 but probably doesnt make a difference) reads the exact format of the disc.....DTS Master HD, Dolby True HD, etc. It also automatically switches between PCM and whatever format is coming (via bitstream) when changing from game to BR and vice versa.


Thank you.i will have a look.
post #4183 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I've attached 2 .mkv files with moving bars that should make the 24fps bug visible. One file is 23.976fps the other 24fps.

MovingBars.zip 273k .zip file
(Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/11305610-post1.html)

Thanks - you can definitely see it there.
post #4184 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

This is really minor issue. This would be much nicer if they fixed 24p issue, audyssey issues, gapless problems and made the OSD less laggy. I.e. - the every day functionality. They you would be newer ever look at this menu...
I am sorry for going back to this minor issue, but I still don't know is it normal behavior. Can someone please confirm. I would except that receiver try to compare FW installed and FW on usb and shows some kind of confirmation even if you have the newest FW installed. There is even no option to choose update via network or usb. When the new firmware comes out and I am not able to upgrade, for me that's major issue.
Thank you
post #4185 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by begovics View Post

I am sorry for going back to this minor issue, but I still don't know is it normal behavior. Can someone please confirm. I would except that receiver try to compare FW installed and FW on usb and shows some kind of confirmation even if you have the newest FW installed. There is even no option to choose update via network or usb. When the new firmware comes out and I am not able to upgrade, for me that's major issue.
Thank you

Don't worry, this is how thing are done... according to manual:
Quote:
Select “Update via NET” and press ENTER.
Note that this option will not be available if there is no
firmware file newer than the currently installed
version.

Pretty the same is with USB. So, as long as there is no update you will not have the option to choose something.
post #4186 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Don't worry, this is how thing are done... according to manual:
Pretty the same is with USB. So, as long as there is no update you will not have the option to choose something.

I went through the manual several times and never noticed "...option will not be available if there is no..." rolleyes.gif
Thank you very much.
post #4187 of 9516
Greetings.
I'm a new 818 owner, and I'm having an issue with the sound of the receiver when using it for music, which is quite often.

I've run the Audessy calibration routine, and whenever the audessy is on , either movie or music mode (quick setup, sound, audessy choices movies/music/off) the sound is very unnatural, almost no lower end.

It almost sounds as if there is a phase problem with speaker wiring. This problem is present regardless of the listening mode in use, aside from pure audio & direct, they sound horribly flat.

Although the speakers are not a matched set, I'm 100% certain there is not a phasing problem due to reversed speaker wires and such.

I'm using the 818 for F / FW / Center / Surround channels, with the line level output going to an older Pioneer A/V receiver for the surround back channels. This REC. is in direct pass-through mode, so it's not changing things. Powering this Receiver down doesn't resolve the problem, so I doubt that's it.

Turning the audessy off in quick settings does resolve the problem to a great degree, but not 100%

Any ideas?
post #4188 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by legbreaker View Post

As I already tested the same movies the other guys mentioned before, I really could not detect any problems in our PAL area. While other guys in the US had problems with those movies on BD, which we all used to test. Same settings ... So I again guess it has to be related to the NTSC format. I know 4 people in 4 different countries with the same receiver. 2 guys in the US had this "24p" problem while my other friend in Germany (also PAL) did not see anything at all, just like me..

My thoughs exactly.
The issue with 23.976fps is something which dates back to when they changed original 24fps films to NTSC video format (59.94 Hz vertical scanning).
ATSC defines 23.976fps as "film-looking frame rate compatible with NTSC clock speed standards" and I believe this is still the most common Blu-ray format in USA & Canada.
But today HDTVs can accuratly show 24p films, it's no need to convert to NTSC or PAL video format first.
I believe that Blu-ray movies we buy in Europe is in 24.000fps, which is defined as "international film and ATSC high-definition material".

Quote:

23.976p: Some 24p productions, especially those made only for NTSC TV and video distribution (e.g. in Canada or the USA), actually have a frame rate of 24 * 29.97 / 30 frame/s, or 23.976frame/s. Many use the term "24p" as a shorthand for this frame rate, since "23.976" does not roll off the tongue as easily. This is because the "30frame/s" framerate of NTSC is actually 30/100.1%, also referred to as 29.97frame/s – this framerate is matched when video at 23.976frame/s has a 3:2 pulldown applied. Similarly, 60i is shorthand for 60/100.1% fields per second.
Nevertheless, even in NTSC regions, film productions are often shot at exactly 24 frame/s. This can be a source of confusion and technical difficulties if material is treated as normal video, since the slightly differing framerates can be problematic for video and audio sync. However, this is not a problem if the video material is merely treated as a carrier for material which is known by the editing system to be "true" 24frame/s, and audio is recorded separately from moving images, as is normal film practice.

As a curiosity: the first film to be shot in 48fps is "The Hobbit"-
post #4189 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annoid View Post

Greetings.
I'm a new 818 owner, and I'm having an issue with the sound of the receiver when using it for music, which is quite often.

I've run the Audessy calibration routine, and whenever the audessy is on , either movie or music mode (quick setup, sound, audessy choices movies/music/off) the sound is very unnatural, almost no lower end.

It almost sounds as if there is a phase problem with speaker wiring. This problem is present regardless of the listening mode in use, aside from pure audio & direct, they sound horribly flat.

Although the speakers are not a matched set, I'm 100% certain there is not a phasing problem due to reversed speaker wires and such.

I'm using the 818 for F / FW / Center / Surround channels, with the line level output going to an older Pioneer A/V receiver for the surround back channels. This REC. is in direct pass-through mode, so it's not changing things. Powering this Receiver down doesn't resolve the problem, so I doubt that's it.

Turning the audessy off in quick settings does resolve the problem to a great degree, but not 100%

Any ideas?

Hi Annoid,

You might want to run this by the folks over at the dedicated Audyssey thread;

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1
post #4190 of 9516
I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best way to hook up my Apple TV so I can, for an example, watch a game on ESPN while streaming music over Airplay from my iPad? Would I just hook up an optical cable from the Apple TV to the receiver? Does this reduce the sound quality? Thanks for the help!
post #4191 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcm304 View Post

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best way to hook up my Apple TV so I can, for an example, watch a game on ESPN while streaming music over Airplay from my iPad? Would I just hook up an optical cable from the Apple TV to the receiver? Does this reduce the sound quality? Thanks for the help!

Hi jcm304, yes connect an optical cable from apple tv to receiver "TV/CD"port.
- select your video input source (ESPN)
- wait until the source video is playing
- on the remote, press "Receiver" button and then "TV/CD" button
post #4192 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRams View Post

I believe that Blu-ray movies we buy in Europe is in 24.000fps, which is defined as "international film and ATSC high-definition material".

Its important to point out that some of the blu-rays you buy are 24.000fps. 'Some'.
The Hollywood blockbusters are often region free. The same disc pressed from the same master no matter where in the world you buy it. Those are almost certainly 23.976.

Let me just say that I am in New Zealand. A 'PAL' country. Jmpage2 is also in a PAL country. We have both categorically stated that we both experience this bug.
post #4193 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi jcm304, yes connect an optical cable from apple tv to receiver "TV/CD"port.
- select your video input source (ESPN)
- wait until the source video is playing
- on the remote, press "Receiver" button and then "TV/CD" button
Thanks!
post #4194 of 9516
Does anyone know if the network protocol is 10/100/1000 Base T or Just 10/100?
post #4195 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I've attached 2 .mkv files with moving bars that should make the 24fps bug visible. One file is 23.976fps the other 24fps.

MovingBars.zip 273k .zip file
(Source: http://www.avforums.com/forums/11305610-post1.html)

Nice. Send that to the Onkyo forums and maybe they'll stop asking us for proof.
post #4196 of 9516
Tested my buddy's Marantz AV8801 for the VP bug, the signal passes unaltered....If anyone was thinking about grabbing the Marantz the VP works as advertised.
post #4197 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWD69 View Post

I got my 818 a few days ago, haven't had a chance to set it up yet, anyway, I have a Denon AVR-3805 and a Sony STR-DA5200ES and I was wondering if I could use either one as an amp to set up a 9.1 system?
If I can, how would I go about doing that???confused.gif
Thanks!smile.gif

Bump!confused.gif
post #4198 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRams View Post

R[eg]arding the 1080/24p issue:

I urge you to read these too:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1187090/23-976hz-vs-24hz

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294790/are-all-blu-ray-discs-in-24fps-natively

24p discussions would be better taken to either of these rather than here to avoid clustering the thread further.
post #4199 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I've attached 2 .mkv files with moving bars that should make the 24fps bug visible. One file is 23.976fps the other 24fps.

MovingBars.zip 273k .zip file

Even easier to notice a bug on these test files: http://www.mediafire.com/?w4dm4i2a99weoh4 (source: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367468/himedia-hd900b-full-3d-media-streamer-realtek-1186-based/1140#post_21685294)
Also possible to begin try to enable the smoothing of motion in TV.

For 3D there are also stuttering?
What other models could reliably known to have a bug 23.976?
post #4200 of 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoElement View Post

Even easier to notice a bug on these test files: http://www.mediafire.com/?w4dm4i2a99weoh4 (source: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367468/himedia-hd900b-full-3d-media-streamer-realtek-1186-based/1140#post_21685294)
Also possible to begin try to enable the smoothing of motion in TV.

For 3D there are also stuttering?
What other models could reliably known to have a bug 23.976?

Some mentioned it might be a bug in the Marvell chip itself, but since other receivers use it and dont have the bug it would lead you to believe that the Onkyo firmware is the issue. Unfortunately it doesnt seem like Onkyo is eager to fix their firmware.

I still dont know if the earlier Onkyo models have the bug too. I have an 809 and I believe it has the same VP as the 818 but not sure it has the 24p bug.
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