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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 163

post #4861 of 7305
2/10/13 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boidsonly View Post

Where were you 6-7 months ago? eek.gif This info should be stickied to thread 1 or 2 with the other 818 info?

Succinct is an understatement. I I believe I actually understand it now. Nice writeup on your link, BTW. Hope you keep it updated. wink.gif

Thanks!!

Thanks! The way Onkyo implemented it just doesn't seem to lend itself to a clear explanation, which is often a sign the user experience is poor. Oh well. What you see is the best I've got at the moment smile.gif

I only recently got my 818, so I wouldn't of been any help 6-7 months ago...

BTW, I've added some more info the my site
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post #4862 of 7305
2/10/13 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

MM,

Great work, although I have to admit my eyes glazed over initially but after re-reading it (quite) a few times it all became clearer. I have now changed to 'through -Custom:through' from 'source - custom:auto' I don't have the pj on now but will look at it later.

Do you have a personal favorite?

Patrick, thanks! My eyes were glazing over when I was running the tests! As for the write-up, I wish I could make it more clear.

Glad to see the info was useful to a degree that it caused you to make a change. I'll be interested to hear if you prefer the new settings.

As for my personal favorite? I'm a little burnt out on 818 video modes right now and haven't made a choice. If I go with only using Main, I suspect I'm going to use Monitor Out:Resolution = Source and each input's Picture Mode set to direct. This is because I'm not sure I want the VP messing with anything in my setup. But it's definitely a nice to have for some potential future flexibility.
Edited by MadMyers - 2/10/13 at 2:05pm
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post #4863 of 7305
2/10/13 at 2:03pm
Hey Guys I need some help! I am new to the forum.

I bought the 818 about 2 months ago. Worked fine until 3 days ago. Here's the problem. I tried calibrating it with the microphone as usual but this time when I plugged in the jack into the input of the receiver...there was a sudden spark. I am not sure why. The sound still works fine coming from my speakers but the calibration seems to be faulty. When I test the calibration using my subwoofers ....i usual have to turn the volume nob 1/4 of the way on the subwoofer to reach 75 db but this time it crank it all the up and it still doesnt go past 15db. Im pretty sure its not the microphone problem but rather the input jack.

Any advice on what I shoud do? Thank you in advance.
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post #4864 of 7305
2/10/13 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by luminiz View Post

Hey Guys I need some help! I am new to the forum.

I bought the 818 about 2 months ago. Worked fine until 3 days ago. Here's the problem. I tried calibrating it with the microphone as usual but this time when I plugged in the jack into the input of the receiver...there was a sudden spark. I am not sure why. The sound still works fine coming from my speakers but the calibration seems to be faulty. When I test the calibration using my subwoofers ....i usual have to turn the volume nob 1/4 of the way on the subwoofer to reach 75 db but this time it crank it all the up and it still doesnt go past 15db. Im pretty sure its not the microphone problem but rather the input jack.

Any advice on what I shoud do? Thank you in advance.

Just a guess. If your weather at the time was extremely dry possable static shock. Try unplugging for a few minutes. If that does not work try a complete factory reset. If that does not do the trick I recommend then calling Onkyo customer service. Good luck
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post #4865 of 7305
2/10/13 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Just a guess. If your weather at the time was extremely dry possable static shock. Try unplugging for a few minutes. If that does not work try a complete factory reset. If that does not do the trick I recommend then calling Onkyo customer service. Good luck

I second that thinking as I blew out 2 mics a few years ago with static electricity. Now, I always ground myself before putting in or taking out the mic.
In my case, when starting the tests it would get hung up on the left/first speaker position and return a 'speaker error' message and go no farther. Contact Onkyo and they'll send you another mic.
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post #4866 of 7305
2/10/13 at 7:27pm
And now for the bad news...

My Sony VPL-HW30ES projector and the Onkyo TX-NR818 don't play nice. The Sony will not power on if the Onkyo is already on! It starts to turn on and the displays 12 quick flashing lights.

I've found several threads describing this same problem with different Onkyo receivers (on AVSForum and elsewhere). Sadly, I wasn't aware of this prior to my purchase.

I'm not sure if this is going to be a deal breaker for me...

I've posted about this on the Onkyo forum. It will be interesting to see what they say.

The short summary is that I've tried all the various HDMI CEC options and combinations and it makes no difference. I did show that the problem doesn't occur if the Onkyo is connected to the Projector using the Sub output. But this shouldn't be surprising since I believe the Onkyo doesn't support CEC on Sub. Also, when the Sony is turned on first and CEC is enabled, the Sony does see the Onkyo (it displays there is a receiver called TX-NR818), so the CEC communication functionality isn't completely broken.

Hoping for good news back from Onkyo...
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post #4867 of 7305
2/10/13 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

And now for the bad news...

My Sony VPL-HW30ES projector and the Onkyo TX-NR818 don't play nice. The Sony will not power on if the Onkyo is already on! It starts to turn on and the displays 12 quick flashing lights.

I've found several threads describing this same problem with different Onkyo receivers (on AVSForum and elsewhere). Sadly, I wasn't aware of this prior to my purchase.

I'm not sure if this is going to be a deal breaker for me...

I've posted about this on the Onkyo forum. It will be interesting to see what they say.

The short summary is that I've tried all the various HDMI CEC options and combinations and it makes no difference. I did show that the problem doesn't occur if the Onkyo is connected to the Projector using the Sub output. But this shouldn't be surprising since I believe the Onkyo doesn't support CEC on Sub. Also, when the Sony is turned on first and CEC is enabled, the Sony does see the Onkyo (it displays there is a receiver called TX-NR818), so the CEC communication functionality isn't completely broken.

Hoping for good news back from Onkyo...

use a harmony remote and delay the power on for the 818 so that the projector is the first thing on.
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post #4868 of 7305
2/11/13 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

use a harmony remote and delay the power on for the 818 so that the projector is the first thing on.

+1.
That Sony projector is really the root cause.
Any new AVR (2011 and up) has the potential to give you issues with HDMI now that OEMs are forced to follow more strict HDMI rules as far as copy protection.
The cowboy days of old are pretty much over with regards to HDMI and their loose interpretation on how everything must work.
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post #4869 of 7305
2/11/13 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

And now for the bad news...

My Sony VPL-HW30ES projector and the Onkyo TX-NR818 don't play nice. The Sony will not power on if the Onkyo is already on! It starts to turn on and the displays 12 quick flashing lights.

I've found several threads describing this same problem with different Onkyo receivers (on AVSForum and elsewhere). Sadly, I wasn't aware of this prior to my purchase.

I'm not sure if this is going to be a deal breaker for me...

I've posted about this on the Onkyo forum. It will be interesting to see what they say.

The short summary is that I've tried all the various HDMI CEC options and combinations and it makes no difference. I did show that the problem doesn't occur if the Onkyo is connected to the Projector using the Sub output. But this shouldn't be surprising since I believe the Onkyo doesn't support CEC on Sub. Also, when the Sony is turned on first and CEC is enabled, the Sony does see the Onkyo (it displays there is a receiver called TX-NR818), so the CEC communication functionality isn't completely broken.

Hoping for good news back from Onkyo...

I have the same AVR & Sony PJ. I ran into the same issue after I updated the firmware. I called my local non-box store where I bought the Sony since I could not find anything on-line regarding the number of flashes (the book has error codes but not for that number) and he quickly said (without me telling him that I updated the firmware) to turn off the Onkyo and Sony and unplug the power cord to the Sony and the HDMI to the Sony; then wait a minute and plug the power back in and then the HDMI (I believe that was the order). It has to do with the handshake needing to be reset. I have the Harmony ONE and I have not made any changes to it regarding any delays etc: just the default settings and it worked fine right after I did that.
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post #4870 of 7305
2/11/13 at 1:25pm
Thanks for the replies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

use a harmony remote and delay the power on for the 818 so that the projector is the first thing on.

Yes, this is a solution... but I occasionally like to have the receiver on without the projector (listening to music, for example). When doing this and then wanting to watch video, it's painful to be required to shut off the Onkyo and then Power on the Sony, and then re-power Onkyo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

+1.
That Sony projector is really the root cause.
Any new AVR (2011 and up) has the potential to give you issues with HDMI now that OEMs are forced to follow more strict HDMI rules as far as copy protection.
The cowboy days of old are pretty much over with regards to HDMI and their loose interpretation on how everything must work.

It's not clear to me that this is a Sony problem...or an Onkyo problem. Heck, both Sony and Onkyo will probably say their stuff is performing perfectly and ignore the fact that when put together it just doesn't work. The Sony is pretty new (just last years model), so I wouldn't assume this is the result of an older HDMI implementation playing fast and loose. Keep in mind everything works fine when the Onkyo isn't in the picture... It's not like I need to have my Bluray turned off in order to power on the Sony when directly connected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I have the same AVR & Sony PJ. I ran into the same issue after I updated the firmware. I called my local non-box store where I bought the Sony since I could not find anything on-line regarding the number of flashes (the book has error codes but not for that number) and he quickly said (without me telling him that I updated the firmware) to turn off the Onkyo and Sony and unplug the power cord to the Sony and the HDMI to the Sony; then wait a minute and plug the power back in and then the HDMI (I believe that was the order). It has to do with the handshake needing to be reset. I have the Harmony ONE and I have not made any changes to it regarding any delays etc: just the default settings and it worked fine right after I did that.

Strange, but I'll try anything. Just to be clear, are you saying that (1) you experienced the "Sony will not power on if the Onkyo is already on" problem and then (2) did that dance of power/cable disconnects/reconnects and finally (3) you were able to turn the Sony projector on even if the Onkyo was on?
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post #4871 of 7305
2/11/13 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Thanks for the replies.

Strange, but I'll try anything. Just to be clear, are you saying that (1) you experienced the "Sony will not power on if the Onkyo is already on" problem and then (2) did that dance of power/cable disconnects/reconnects and finally (3) you were able to turn the Sony projector on even if the Onkyo was on?

I'm saying I used the standard wizard on the ONE to watch TV etc and when I watch TV (just tested it) the Sony turned on first, then the AVR and it works fine. Yes - I can say for certainty that the Sony will power on and play fine if the Onkyo was already on (the Sony timed-out and turned off in the past when I've been setting up the POopcorn Hour etc).
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post #4872 of 7305
2/11/13 at 5:43pm
FWIW, I received and installed the FW update today. Based on my eyes and on the info display of my Epson FP, the 24p bug has been squashed. Thanks to those who pushed this to Onkyo's attention and thanks to Onkyo for doing the right thing.
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post #4873 of 7305
2/12/13 at 9:16am
Has any one noticed with the beta firmware, after entering setup and exiting it, the quick setup needs to be pressed more than once for the OSD?
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post #4874 of 7305
2/12/13 at 1:15pm
From the Onkyo USA Support forum concerning FW for the '24p bug';

It has been decided that this firmware will be released on a REQUESTED basis and not published onto the Onkyo USA/ Onkyo Canada Support webpage. Please send all inuires to askOnkyo@us.onkyo.com for this firmware request.

Thank you again for all your cooperation;

http://forums.onkyousa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138&p=4028#p4028

I have a question to the beta testers; Does Onkyo warn you that this may screw up your machine and they assume no responsibility if it does and therefore any warranty claims would be rejected?
Edited by Patrick Murphy - 2/12/13 at 1:22pm
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post #4875 of 7305
2/12/13 at 1:43pm
Poor form Onkyo. You just said a big FU to all your european customers, all your Integra customers and all of the owners of all of the other models affected by this bug.
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post #4876 of 7305
2/12/13 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

From the Onkyo USA Support forum concerning FW for the '24p bug';

It has been decided that this firmware will be released on a REQUESTED basis and not published onto the Onkyo USA/ Onkyo Canada Support webpage. Please send all inuires to askOnkyo@us.onkyo.com for this firmware request.

Thank you again for all your cooperation;

http://forums.onkyousa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138&p=4028#p4028

I have a question to the beta testers; Does Onkyo warn you that this may screw up your machine and they assume no responsibility if it does and therefore any warranty claims would be rejected?

A couple of comments on the 24/60fps issue...

Before I upgraded to the "fix" version, I spent a little time looking for the problem. It's was immediately visible (well, where immediately means within a minute or so). I used the lip-sync test pattern on the Disney WOW calibration disc. It has a line that spins around in a cirlce. I could easily see the periodic "hickup" in the signal --- if I didn't get a little dizzy from watching the pattern closely.

When I upgraded to the "fix" version, I repeated the test. I was pleased that there wasn't any hickup. So IMHO, the issue has been resolved.

Regarding your question to beta testers... Onkyo sent me the firmware with no caveats. Just an instruction file with the wrong file names listed. There was no special warning.

Putting myself in Onkyo's shoes, I can see why they are doing it this way. In their minds, the people bothered by this problem are a small group. They don't want to burden the "happy" crowd with a firmware upgrade. Regardless of the quality of the firmware upgrade, it will increase the number of support calls they get --- which costs them money.
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post #4877 of 7305
2/12/13 at 1:52pm
Not sure how it is a big "FU", anyone can request the firmware via email - regardless of model, location, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

I do think it should be prepped for wider release. What happens when there is a new firmware update for the masses? Do we not install as it will overwrite the fixes offered by the per request version?
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post #4878 of 7305
2/12/13 at 2:06pm
That i
Quote:
Originally Posted by runtodrun View Post

Not sure how it is a big "FU", anyone can request the firmware via email - regardless of model, location, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

I do think it should be prepped for wider release. What happens when there is a new firmware update for the masses? Do we not install as it will overwrite the fixes offered by the per request version?

That is exactly my question as well. I just sent my email request since that's the only way to get the fix. I specifically asked them that question in my request. Waiting for their response.
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post #4879 of 7305
2/12/13 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by runtodrun View Post

Not sure how it is a big "FU", anyone can request the firmware via email - regardless of model, location, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

I do think it should be prepped for wider release. What happens when there is a new firmware update for the masses? Do we not install as it will overwrite the fixes offered by the per request version?

If they have said that they will offer a fixed firmware for anything other than the North American TX-NR818 then it is the first I've heard about it.
Nothing in their statement that I can see, suggests what you have stated.
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post #4880 of 7305
2/12/13 at 2:52pm
I have been a loyal Onkyo customer for many years, but this just takes the cake. They have a fix for the problem but won't make the firmware publicly available which means all units sold will still have the bug and won't be repaired unless the bug is caught by the customer, this is just BAD business. My next unit will be anything other when the time comes.
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post #4881 of 7305
2/12/13 at 4:53pm
What the hell is wrong with Onkyo?
They should be thanking the members here for doing their beta testing, then they pull crap like this.
Nice....rolleyes.gif
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post #4882 of 7305
2/12/13 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

If they have said that they will offer a fixed firmware for anything other than the North American TX-NR818 then it is the first I've heard about it.
Nothing in their statement that I can see, suggests what you have stated.

My bad Fahrenheit. Typical American ignorance of the rest of the world. I just assumed 818 firmware was the same regardless of country.

Doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't fix problem globally and make it part of the official firmware. Also unfortunate.

Let me know KK. Very interested in the answer. Thanks - T
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post #4883 of 7305
2/12/13 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by runtodrun View Post

My bad Fahrenheit. Typical American ignorance of the rest of the world. I just assumed 818 firmware was the same regardless of country.

No, you are actually correct on that point. All evidence suggests that firmware for the 818 is universal. It also looks like the Integra 50.4 uses the identical firmware.

The problems I have are -

1. Onkyo (US) are claiming that its not supported outside of NA. If you are out of that region and request it, then what? We're forced to have to ask kindly for someone here to make it publically (or privately) available. Onkyo have made it clear that they aren't happy for anyone to do so.

2. This issue doesn't only affect the 818. It is a legacy issue going back at least as far as the 806 and we also know it affects the 717 and the Integra 50.4 (and probably all integras going backwards to 2008).
It probably also affects the models above the 818 and going back as many years.
That is a hell of a lot of units in circulation that could all benefit from (and deserve) this fixed firmware.

I'm also concerned that we've had little in the way of assurances that they understand the problem they've fixed.
Its one thing to honor the requests of a small vocal group, but its an entirely different thing to understand why that group requested it in the first place.... We will have to wait and see how the future models perform.
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post #4884 of 7305
2/12/13 at 6:27pm
I hope the members on Onkyo's forum that bashed me now have their eyes opened. Onkyo should release a " universal VP " firmare update, it should NOT matter which country you live in, a VP should NOT alter the incoming frame rate period, unless the end user changes it.
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post #4885 of 7305
2/12/13 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

No, you are actually correct on that point. All evidence suggests that firmware for the 818 is universal. It also looks like the Integra 50.4 uses the identical firmware.

The problems I have are -

1. Onkyo (US) are claiming that its not supported outside of NA. If you are out of that region and request it, then what? We're forced to have to ask kindly for someone here to make it publically (or privately) available. Onkyo have made it clear that they aren't happy for anyone to do so.

2. This issue doesn't only affect the 818. It is a legacy issue going back at least as far as the 806 and we also know it affects the 717 and the Integra 50.4 (and probably all integras going backwards to 2008).
It probably also affects the models above the 818 and going back as many years.
That is a hell of a lot of units in circulation that could all benefit from (and deserve) this fixed firmware.

I'm also concerned that we've had little in the way of assurances that they understand the problem they've fixed.
Its one thing to honor the requests of a small vocal group, but its an entirely different thing to understand why that group requested it in the first place.... We will have to wait and see how the future models perform.


I have asked Home Theater magazine to test all future Onkyo/ Integra product for the VP bug on their future reviews, I hope for future consumers they listened.
Edited by Mike Butny - 2/12/13 at 8:55pm
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post #4886 of 7305
2/12/13 at 6:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

I hope the members on Onkyo's forum that bashed me now have their eyes opened. Onkyo should release a " universal VP " firmare update, it should NOT matter which country you live in, a VP should NOT alter the incoming frame rate period, unless the end user changes it.

Hah. Get in line pal, I was the first one to report this and got the hisses and boos galore. I echo the above comments, it's not clear they even understand what they fixed or why people complained about it. Next AVR will NOT be an onkyo based on how they have handled this whole thing. It's one thing to make a rookie mistake with something essential like preserving the framerate, it's entirely another to pull these stunts.
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post #4887 of 7305
2/12/13 at 8:03pm
I agree with you jmpage2, a few us took a beating and I'm happy we all stuck together and made progress. The 818 for the money is a really nice receiver now that the VP issue has been resolved and when paired with external amps it really shines. It still has a few bugs but for my main use it serves it's purpose.
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post #4888 of 7305
2/12/13 at 8:51pm
I really don't understand why Onkyo wouldn't want to send down a fix for all of their customers. What do they lose by offering a firmware update?

I really don't think my next unit will be an Onkyo either. My money goes to companies that want to build relationships, not push customers away.
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post #4889 of 7305
2/12/13 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

I really don't understand why Onkyo wouldn't want to send down a fix for all of their customers. What do they lose by offering a firmware update?

I really don't think my next unit will be an Onkyo either. My money goes to companies that want to build relationships, not push customers away.

It could be seen as losing face to acknowledge a rather substantial and essential capability that every other AVR out there can do, they were not doing right. They also might worry that it opens them up to warranty/lawsuit type issues.

Here's to hoping that they quietly "slip this in" to the next FW (if any) that comes out for this model, but I'm not holding my breath. Perhaps if the owners of earlier models had made a stink about it, then it would have been fixed before this.
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post #4890 of 7305
2/12/13 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

From the Onkyo USA Support forum concerning FW for the '24p bug';

It has been decided that this firmware will be released on a REQUESTED basis and not published onto the Onkyo USA/ Onkyo Canada Support webpage. Please send all inuires to askOnkyo@us.onkyo.com for this firmware request.

Thank you again for all your cooperation;

http://forums.onkyousa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138&p=4028#p4028

I have a question to the beta testers; Does Onkyo warn you that this may screw up your machine and they assume no responsibility if it does and therefore any warranty claims would be rejected?

The email itself didn't give any such warning, but on the Onkyo USA web site, under firmware updates, I found this,

Limitation of liability
The program and accompanying online documentation are furnished to you for use at your own risk.
Onkyo will not be liable and you will have no remedy for damages for any claim of any kind whatsoever
concerning your use of the program or the accompanying online documentation, regardless of legal
theory, and whether arising in tort or contract. In no event will Onkyo be liable to you or any third party
for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages of any kind, including, but not limited to,
compensation, reimbursement or damages on account of the loss of present or prospective profits, loss
of data, or for any other reason whatsoever.
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