Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 175

I've had it both ways, Last night i was streaming netflix through my Blu-ray player and i had it only while content was playing. Once paused it went away.
A couple days ago I noticed it with nothing playing (first caught my attention while streaming music), turned the volume up to about -10 and it was quite noisy, went to access the sound menu in startup and the noise went away as soon as i opened that menu.

I miss-described it, more of a constant rushing wind noise then true white noise. Kinda like you would hear on old vinyl records or tape recordings.

Forgot to mention it may not just be audyssey, it goes away when receiver is set to pure or direct modes, but theater its there and with audyssey on its the loudest.

Okay just played with it for the last 30 minutes, Its not audyssey its the dynamic settings, once turned on the dynamic equalizer makes enough backround noise to be unbearable.

I thought it was audyssey but realized that the preset i was using turned them both on. with audyssey on and dynamic off there is still some noise but its bearable.
Is this normal?
Do i need to ground my receiver or something?
Setting im missing somewhere?


Have only had the reciever for a few days and didnt notice this until recently im hoping i just turned a setting on that is causing this.




EDIT: Its The BD HDMI Input thats creating the noise, The dynamic settings made it way louder, musta been the perfect frequencys they were boosting. Tried switching the BD player to input 2 and the noises are gone.

Even selecting BD input with nothing connected gives off the sound, Is there a setting that can cause this or do i need to call onkyo and warranty this thing?
Edited by getsideways87 - 2/26/13 at 7:34am

I need some knowledge or opinion here.
I use my full HD projector on the hdmi main out and I have no other monitor on the hdmi sub. I am thinking to plug in a small monitor just to make it easier for me and the rest of the family to navigate through menus, especially when playing music from net but also to control the dune smart B1 device that has no display or other indication on it so even to start playing a CD is somehow tricky.
I wonder if I use a monitor that has max resolution of 1366x768/60Hz and connected in hdmi sub out with a hdmi to dvi cable will i get picture of the menus from the receiver and the dune? I would like to have also picture from the player when playing movies just for trial reasons and I am wondering what will happen when a full hd, 1080p 24fps signal is coming out from the palyer...will it show on the monitor?

I know that from the sub out i will not have the fancy menus such as from the main outpout but at least I would have something to navigate through. What do you think? Should you reckon that a full hd monitor is an absolutely must for not to mesh with the rest of the setup?

I hope so.

Some people fail to read the graphs/understand there is a boost BY AUDYSSEY till the very low frequencies if I present the graph with HPF applied. There are two things you do not understand - bass management and audyssey are different subsystems and bass management is not supposed to fix problems created by audyssey (and it is even unable to 'fix' them enough in my case, not to mention it is unable to do what it supposed do by itself).
The normalization topic was covered million times already, it is not normalization and you can see it even on the graph I posted (I will measure starting from lower frequencies next time). Anyway whatever process caused it - it is a boost! If you cant understand that... And if you repeating the same nonsensical things again and again... I can only be rude, as Markus said...
MonitorAudio RX6 (detected 40Hz), RX Centre (detected 50Hz), RXFX (detected 60Hz now as I mounted them to the wall, before when free-standing they was detecting as 90-120Hz), RXW12.
Set everything to 80Hz after audyssey calibration (left surrounds as is when they was detected higher).
Sounds harsh with dirty mids/highs sometimes vibrating when modulated by very low frequencies, becoming a total cacophony on complex music content or on movie special effects, turning off Audyssey cleans the dirtiness, eliminates vibration of high frequencies. Pure audio is worse than stereo with bass-management involved in that I can hear some dirtiness, but it is tolerable up to the reference levels. no-audyssey stereo with bass management is perfectly clear, with audyssey the dirtiness is much worse than in pure-audio and intolerable to my ears on levels significantly less than reference. Not every recording sounds that bad, but happens more often than not.

Igor, it is you being rude and not listening.

Did you
run audyssey with a sub and crossover
change the center to full range and sub to no
measure the center channel pre out
?

When I was auditioning them at the shop they was driven by a way less capable Marantz and and at a lot higher volumes they was absolutely clean with no sign of any distortion. So, speakers are not the problem. And... your 'over-taxed' guess have a grain of truth - If you boost as much as Audyssey does for me at such a low frequencies - many amps will be over-taxed... You will need a concert hall amps (and speakers) in just a small room to compensate for this. +10dB is 10 times more in power. This it what I am talking about from the beginning. It is what any sound engineer knows. There would be no over-taxing if there would be no boost, largely unneeded boost...

Room size/shape is the rectangle, 3.1*5.6*2.5 meters (10*18*8 feet). TV/Fronts along the long wall (I know it is not the best layout, but the only practical one for me).

I am rude because you are rude by repeating wrong assertions (that was discussed already) without even understanding them.
Yes. (removed incoherent words from quote).

"sub to no" is incoherent? "run audyssey" makes more sense in english. I realize there is a language barrier but your english is good enough, that's not the problem.

Your measurement (which I last quoted) provides no useful information. If you want to measure what your AVR does (Audyssey + bass management) to your center channel running in full range mode you need to calibrate it in full range mode. The expected behavior you measured is undefined. If you want to measure what is happening post calibration to just your center channel 1)run calibration 2) change crossover to 80 hz, 3) unplug the sub 4) sweep the center.

Again you have received a lot of helpful advice that can help you but there is a reception problem and an attitude problem. Run Markus's suggested tests. Thus far there is no evidence of a bug, at least not in that graph.

Also what do you perceive the difference between boosting and attenuating to be on head room when level matched with a C-weighted SPL meter?

So I'm trying to play my Apple TV which is connected via HDMI to the receiver with the receiver off. Is that not what HDMI passthrough does? Maybe I have the settings wrong or am misunderstanding HDMI passthrough. Is it possible?

Anybody?

I'm no expert on Audessey, so take it for what it's worth... To me, it look like Audessey is just trying to roll off the frequency at 12db/octave, as designed to blend with the sub.

Looking at the measured impedance of your RX6's ( http://www.stereophile.com/content/monitor-audio-silver-rx6-loudspeaker-measurements ), there is a large bump in impedance from 10hz to 50hz. Audessey is just increasing the amplitude of the signal in direct proportion to the impedance of the speaker. It looks like you can reduce this effect by plugging the ports on your speakers.

Thanks jm. Appreciate it.

You should use the punctuation at least sometimes, the "no measure" blown my head and I understood what you really meant only after replying
I am thinking to do this experiment (calibrate without sub) and measure to see if there are difference (I hardly believe it will still).
But independent of that the graphs povide very useful information - what is Audyssey is doing. If you thing it is not useful - you do not understand the purpose of bass management well enough. I will repeat to you again - it is not there to fix Audyssey issues, it is for solving other issues - i.e. free the amp from low frequencies and provide to the speakers electrical rolloff of 12dB/octave below their lowest capable frequency.

If you missed it, there are also measurements of my Right Front channel with XOvers left as Audyssey sets them. It doesn't matter again, as Audyssey tries to extend the natural low-end capabilities of the speakers and it is not it's purpose and not expected from ANY room equalization system.
The expected behavior is something like you can see on Markus graphs. What is on my graphs is extremely unexpected.
What helpful advice? Helpful is something that helps. There is nothing that can help 818 to play well in my room. Because of this bug.
The Audyssey sect is powerful. There are so many fanatics that are blindly believe everything Audyssey does is a feature. After Markus suggested tests you will see basically the same graphs, there will be nothing new on them, why then there will more evidence for you? The presence of a large boost covering large frequency range below F3 is the evidence of a bug. Everything else is our speculation about the reasons as we don't precisely know how Audyssey calculates things. There is clearly a misestimation of F3, but if it is a root reason or a consequence of some other issue - we don't know. But there is a bug as long as the effect is wrong independent of the reasons! The sub normalization boost was a bug too, whatever was the reasons. It was accepted as a bug because of the effect, not because of the reasons.

As I said that graph shows nothing useful. You can regurgitate whatever you want all you want but it doesn't make it true.

If you want to run your speakers full range, calibrate them that way. If you want to use a sub, calibrate it that way. You can't switch without re-running calibration, measure, and claim bug. That's simply incorrect.

How come you skipped my last question?

Yes, it looks like it is trying to make this rolloff at lower frequency than the natural one, so, the boost, as the real rolloff is lower... or right... on the graph, what is really the same thing.
Audyssey does not measure impedance And what to plug to closed boxes of center and surrounds? They sound worse than fronts after all...

It is not graphs that show nothing useful, it is you who can't see it. This is what is true.
Sorry, I intended to ask you what did you meant there... I din't understood this sentence.

Is any one having ethernet issues with their tx-nr818 unit?

I have tried 2 units (returned the first after troubleshooting with Onkyo support and thought it was a malfunctional ethernet port). The problem I have is similar to what has been described with older gen models (808) here on AVS Forum.



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1253769/new-2010-onkyo-tx-nr708-tx-nr808-tx-nr1008-av-receivers/24


The problem I have is with a wired internet connection, I do not have "internet" access. I get assigned an IP address (I am able to identify the MAC address of the Onkyo on my router's attached devices table). Interestingly, when the ethernet cable is attached, the NET and USB options stall at the initializing window. If I unplug the ethernet cable and reboot, the NET and USB services work. With NET I am at least able to see the list of available services (pandora, spotify etc.). With USB, I can browse music.

I have turned to unit on, then switched input to NET (get a list of services) and then attach the Ethernet cable and it gets stuck at "connecting..."

I have called Onkyo support and have troubleshooted the situation with them, however the only solution they have is to purchase the wifi dongle (which I have no problem doing, but I prefer a wired connection and I think there are some quality limitations on streaming with wifi -correct me if I'm wrong-). They are telling me that maybe its a compatibility issue with my networking devices. I have had no other connecting issues with other devices. Doesn't make sense to me as I am also getting assigned an IP address as well and my MAC address is visible on my network attached devices table.

My home networking equipment contains an Apple Time Capsule as my router and 2 D-Link switches. I have confirmed that the routers and cable work with every other product in my home (xbox,mac mini,directv, googletv, laptop).

Any ideas?

Thanks!

You can repeat whatever you want all you want but it doesn't make it true. Show me a description from Audyssey or Onkyo for the behavior of a non LFE channel below the chosen crossover's rolloff when calibrated with a subwoofer then changed to full range. Otherwise you may a) accept that the graph shows nothing useful b) Believe the graph shows a bug while being wrong.

What words or portions of the sentence is not clear for you? I'm happy to try again if you let me know what part is unclear/difficult to translate.

Are you intentionally skipped my note about Front Channel measurements? Is it because it blows away all your trying to convince everyone here that Audyssey is innocent victim? Why there is so much resistance in Audyssey folks against any information showing negative sides of Audyssey? It is while Audyssey people love to say bad things about YPAO or MCACC, often really sating untruth about them, but standing so strong for Audyssey even when it really does stupidest things to the signal one can even imagine.

I Own the 818 and just took back a Marantz sr5007,THE only reason was the price was righ with the 818t.But FWIW that Marantz was way cleaner in sound and would wail when pushed.This onkyo,Not so much.It has nice features and the such.Definate difference in Dynamic volume features compared to the marantz the onkyo seems to fight it's OWN SELF trying to do it's correction time.

Which note?

Ever notice that every audyssey guide everywhere tells you that you can raise the crossover but not lower it?

I know all words used in the sentence, but still understand nothing... I don't have SPL meter at hands so probably will not be able to answer, but it is still interesting what you wanted to ask here...

I posted graphs for my Right Front channel also, and it is with crossovers left as set by Audyssey.
It tells that it recommeds it but not that you can't do otherwise. Why it recommends this is obvious too, there is a natural roll off below F3 frequency, and there will be a hole acoustically if you set crosses lower. This is what in their reasoning also, not because they 'may be boosting' there. And this applies to any non-Audyssey receiver also and have nothing to do with Audyssey. And there are situations when this adjustment has to be done, for example when very small speakers are detected close to 200Hz, but sub rolls off at 150Hz for example.

The pre-out plot means nothing without considering the impedance curve of your speakers. The increase from 4 ohms to 20 ohms requires a corresponding increase in amplifier input signal (what you are measuring at the pre-out). Audessey compensates for this by measuring in-room. I don't doubt Audessey is doing a poor job with your room/speakers, I'm just trying to explain the "gain" you are seeing below F3.

You don't really need an SPL meter to prove it, it is more theory and understanding what is happening with EQ and headroom/strain on your system. System being the amp and speaker limits. It is a myth that boosting is bad and attenuating is good. They both impact your overall head room the same. The reason being if you attenuate then the overall volume decreases so you have to turn it up to reach the same SPL. When you boost the overall volume increases and you turn it down. Thus as long as you level match the two approaches they impact system headroom the same. C-weighted because it does a broader range of the spectrum then A-weighted.

Therefore a graph can be made to look just like this with only boost and a graph can be made just like this with only attenuation and overall volume change. You have not provided any evidence of boost.

Regardless of those truths, the point is irrelevant because you are claiming a boost in a region who's behavior is undefined. The reason you should not lower a crossover is evident in your graph here, you have no idea what's happening down there in the region calibration determined NOT TO SEND THAT SIGNAL TO YOUR SPEAKERS. your process to make that graph was
1) Calibrate with a sub
2) Change center channel to full range and defeat the crossover
3) measure the center channel
This is not a case the system is designed to handle thus the behavior is undefined.

-Do Markus's prcedure
-I think it is also worthwhile to make an appropriate graph of the center channel. Recommend you calibrate with sub, unhook sub, measure center, raise crossover to 80Hz, measure, and then overlay the graphs on the one quoted.
-Try to hear people out a bit.

I'm confused - you do or do not have internet? I'll go with you do but you can't connect w/the 818. Is the ethernet line you're using a new one or are you using one plugged into a device previously? I ask since you need to unplug the cable at the router to reset it's address otherwise it'll continue to look for whatever device you originally had it plugged into.

Impedance is irrelevant here because it is something the amp has to handle. If you feed a flat signal to an amplifier and the speaker response is flat, then the output of the speaker will be flat too. You don't need to feed the amplifier a signal that counterbalances the impedance of the speaker.