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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 178

post #5311 of 7035
2/27/13 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Those who are claiming that Audyssey is nearly perfect, can you volunteer to document your setup to show the clear improvement Audyssey has delivered?
...
Audyssey's near perfection
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Audyssey XT32 is far from perfect.

LOL

sure I'll post some graphs when I get a chance to do some new measurements. My old one's are not tailored to this discussion and had already talked to another AVS'r this morning about which graphs to generate. Prolly Saturday will be my first opportunity.
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post #5312 of 7035
2/27/13 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


LOL

sure I'll post some graphs when I get a chance to do some new measurements. My old one's are not tailored to this discussion and had already talked to another AVS'r this morning about which graphs to generate. Prolly Saturday will be my first opportunity.

Thanks for volunteering, dstew! Looking forward to yours (any any others') findings.. smile.gif. My intent was to only have people not instinctively jump to the conclusion that a user might be measuring it wrong, or hearing it wrong, or reading the results wrong when someone says their Audyssey measurement produced a messed up sound post-calibration.

Now Igor, you've stirred up so much trouble (wink.giftongue.gif) here, and on Onkyo and Audyssey forums regarding the problem you have seen in your setup. You owe us all to generate more measurement graphs to address the questions raised here to prove that it wasn't flawed measurements or assumptions or subpar gear that caused this problem.
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post #5313 of 7035
2/27/13 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Well at least now its clear why you are selectively throwing out the reminders to keep it off a personal nature instead of taking it to the person instigating the attacks. I did edit my A** comment as that is too far and wish I had chosen not to sink to his approach. If you want to be the hall monitor you should be consistent.
When you believe a component of a system is faulty it is basic troubleshooting techniques to try a known working component in its place. Clearly his experience is not the norm. He doesn't need to buy a new AVR, for most of us around here we can easily get our hands on another unit for testing purposes for a day or three. Is it the 818 or Audyssey XT32? Deploy basic troubleshooting skills and know for sure. Same results with both? The issue is likely not that component of the system (unless you believe all us other XT32 users just missed the random boosting an octave and a half below the F3's rolloff). Why do you consider basic engineering troubleshooting practices to be outrageous?

A component of his system, either the amplifier or the speakers, is distorting based on the load. Discussing that in an attempt to help is "ridiculing"? How do you talk about problems without talking about problems?

I mistakenly thought he did not have a sub based off the graph he touted as "proving" a bug which the graph does nothing of the sort.

We have pointed out the flaws in his assumptions and how he can move forward; he's yet to do so. His personal attacks, refusal to accept basic physics of audio reproduction, failure to take steps toward a solution, while repeating his claimed "bug" is trolling. If he would like to move forward and do anything to contribute towards a solution that is always welcomed. But if he refuses to listen to the reasons why his claims are incorrect then it is not appropriate for him to continue claiming there is a bug.

Audyssey XT32 is far from perfect. More often then not poor results are user errors. Sometimes the overall system and room prove not to mix well with the Audysey algorithm, but you can't claim what he's seeing is a common problem. For an automated tool it is one of the best room correction systems available today and blows away the early attempts at room correction.


^^^^ this... thanks.. tired of seeing everyone beat a head horse with that guy.
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post #5314 of 7035
2/27/13 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLocker View Post

News from the ONKYO USA Support forum:


UPDATE: The TX-NR 717 and TX-NR 818 24 fps FIRMWARE recently issued via email on a case-by-case basis will be released onto the Onkyo US Support webpage via USB download ONLY. Customers will now be able to download the firmware update onto a USB flash drive and upload onto their receiver to resolve this issue. It is tentatively scheduled to be released March 1st 2013. The TX-NR 717 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0100-0000 and the TX-NR 818 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0101-0000.

Cordially;

Forum Moderator

Thanks for update GoatLocker. Just informed a buddy of mine about it.
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post #5315 of 7035
2/27/13 at 7:44pm
Hi All,

I went to a HiFi Show last weekend & spoke to "The" Onkyo Tech Guy to confirm that by adding additional amplification to the 818 (& making it 9.2), one could engage both Wides AND Heights simultaneously whilst employing Audyssey DSX or DTS Neo:X if one was to forgo the Back Surrounds.

He stated that this would not be possible - even with additional amplification, one can only choose either Wides OR Heights. However, I believe the manual indicates otherwise & I am wondering if anyone has tried engaging both Wides & Heights & what the outcome was - just so I can definitely know one way or the other!

Bazzy!
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post #5316 of 7035
2/27/13 at 7:53pm
Make sure to set a static IP in the router for the 818.
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post #5317 of 7035
2/27/13 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

Make sure to set a static IP in the router for the 818.

Why? It's never been a problem for me.
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post #5318 of 7035
2/27/13 at 8:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pretsam View Post

Thanks for update GoatLocker. Just informed a buddy of mine about it.

Yeah, hopefully this means that international folks can just download the NA version FW with the fix and not have to deal with the issue any longer.
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post #5319 of 7035
2/27/13 at 10:04pm
Everyone now worldwide will be able to get it and not risk losing warranty.
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post #5320 of 7035
2/27/13 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Do we have any volunteers with measurement gear to post Audyssey behavior just like Markus has done? There are more than a few people here who seem to have the measurement gear and the knowledge required to do some measurements to investigate this further. Forget about Igor's problem. Those who are claiming that Audyssey is nearly perfect, can you volunteer to document your setup to show the clear improvement Audyssey has delivered?

I don't have an REW-compatible mic or a compatible PC, and I am not wedded to the concept of Audyssey's near perfection or motivated enough to show that it's misbehaving in my case to buy a mic and dedicate time to measure it out.

Any volunteers willing to measure and document their systems, for the sake of enriching the tribal knowledge here?? smile.gif

There some measurements of Audyssey (and other systems) in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435060/rew-measurements-for-room-correction-systems-ypao-arc-audyssey-etc

There is a also a threat at HomeTheaterShack devoted to REW Audyssey measurements.

My experience with Audyssey is the opposite to Igor's. I think it does an excellent job in the bass, probably the best of any RC system.

But I think their target curve is wrong in that it is too flat, resulting in a boost in the treble like Markus's graphs show.

This is sometimes OK for HT, but often not for music. Such a flat response is correct nearfield, but sounds too bright from the listening position. IMHO of course.

If they would allow you to choose a curve like you can with the Pro version, or to only correct up to certain frequency like Anthem's ARC, it would be much more useful.

You can fix this with a separate equalizer and a shelving filter.

At least Denon allows you to choose to only EQ the sub and surrounds, something I wish Onkyo would do, but it would be much more elegant if Audysey was more flexible.
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post #5321 of 7035
2/27/13 at 11:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

But I think their target curve is wrong in that it is too flat, resulting in a boost in the treble like Markus's graphs show.

This is sometimes OK for HT, but often not for music. Such a flat response is correct nearfield, but sounds too bright from the listening position. IMHO of course.

If they would allow you to choose a curve like you can with the Pro version, or to only correct up to certain frequency like Anthem's ARC, it would be much more useful.

You can fix this with a separate equalizer and a shelving filter.

There is no high frequency boost in the in-room response. I've used the "Music" curve. The resulting in-room response will be flat. If one selects the "Movie" curve the in-room response will fall off at higher frequencies.
My last graphs show (from top to bottom):
- in-room response before Audyssey
- MultEQ filter
- in-room response after Audyssey

I believe the problem with Audyssey's in-room power response optimization approach is that it doesn't incorporate free field polar response data of a speaker. But this is really off-topic here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

At least Denon allows you to choose to only EQ the sub and surrounds, something I wish Onkyo would do, but it would be much more elegant if Audysey was more flexible.

But this completely switches off any EQ for the mains, right?
Audyssey should make corrections above the Schröder frequency optional.
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post #5322 of 7035
2/28/13 at 4:26am
Ok I'm considering getting the 818 so i need to be clear on one thing. Is the only way to get 9.2 is by using EXT AMP i want to run front high and surround back
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post #5323 of 7035
2/28/13 at 4:58am
Yes. The only ones with built in amplification are the 3010 or 5010 . I use ext amp . I have unit set up for 11.2 , I switch between heights and wides for 9.2 and now seem to use the wides more than heights. But yes you nee an ext amp for 9.1
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post #5324 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post


My experience with Audyssey is the opposite to Igor's. I think it does an excellent job in the bass, probably the best of any RC system.

But I think their target curve is wrong in that it is too flat, resulting in a boost in the treble like Markus's graphs show.

This is sometimes OK for HT, but often not for music. Such a flat response is correct nearfield, but sounds too bright from the listening position. IMHO of course..

I was listening to a CD today and it sounded bright at the main listening position (Audy = Music, Dyn EQ=Off, Dyn Vol=Off)

When I switch to Audy=Movie it sounded better. Any views?
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post #5325 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macuniverse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post


My experience with Audyssey is the opposite to Igor's. I think it does an excellent job in the bass, probably the best of any RC system.

But I think their target curve is wrong in that it is too flat, resulting in a boost in the treble like Markus's graphs show.

This is sometimes OK for HT, but often not for music. Such a flat response is correct nearfield, but sounds too bright from the listening position. IMHO of course..

I was listening to a CD today and it sounded bright at the main listening position (Audy = Music, Dyn EQ=Off, Dyn Vol=Off)

When I switch to Audy=Movie it sounded better. Any views?

try audyssey music with dynamic eq on.
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post #5326 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:25am
UK firmware is up;

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/articles/firmware-update-tx-nr818-28-02-2013-82777.html

Likely to see the US version later today
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post #5327 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

try audyssey music with dynamic eq on.

"Movie" has a high frequency roll off and a dip at 2kHz
"Music" is flat

Dynamic EQ will introduce a low and high frequency boost when listening below reference level.
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post #5328 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

try audyssey music with dynamic eq on.

"Movie" has a high frequency roll off and a dip at 2kHz
"Music" is flat

Dynamic EQ will introduce a low and high frequency boost when listening below reference level.

absolutely true...i do prefer my cd's with audyssey on music and dynamic eq on though that is why i suggested it.
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post #5329 of 7035
2/28/13 at 5:58am
Updated from 1110-8103-0101-0000 to 1120-8103-0101-0000 in minutes, all done.
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post #5330 of 7035
2/28/13 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

Updated from 1110-8103-0101-0000 to 1120-8103-0101-0000 in minutes, all done.

So Onkyo actually changed the firmware number for the official release?

Confused where 1120-8103-0101-0000 came from as the Onkyo note says "The TX-NR 717 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0100-0000 and the TX-NR 818 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0101-0000"
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post #5331 of 7035
2/28/13 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

So Onkyo actually changed the firmware number for the official release?

Confused where 1120-8103-0101-0000 came from as the Onkyo note says "The TX-NR 717 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0100-0000 and the TX-NR 818 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0101-0000"
That's right. My 818 is a European version, I had the so called "USA Beta Firmware" installed, which was 1110-8103-0101-0000, the latest UK firmware is 1120-8103-0101-0000.
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post #5332 of 7035
2/28/13 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Yes. The only ones with built in amplification are the 3010 or 5010 . I use ext amp . I have unit set up for 11.2 , I switch between heights and wides for 9.2 and now seem to use the wides more than heights. But yes you nee an ext amp for 9.1

Hi,

Are you able to run both Wides AND Heights simultaneously when selecting DSX or DTS Neo:X if you forgo the back surrounds?

Thank You,

Bazzy!
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post #5333 of 7035
2/28/13 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macuniverse View Post


I was listening to a CD today and it sounded bright at the main listening position (Audy = Music, Dyn EQ=Off, Dyn Vol=Off)

When I switch to Audy=Movie it sounded better. Any views?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

try audyssey music with dynamic eq on.

"Movie" has a high frequency roll off and a dip at 2kHz
"Music" is flat

Dynamic EQ will introduce a low and high frequency boost when listening below reference level.

absolutely true...i do prefer my cd's with audyssey on music and dynamic eq on though that is why i suggested it.

I think he was saying the music curve is too bright.

To me I think mac should try movie curve and dynamic EQ off with that same CD based on his description.

For me it is material dependent, Sometimes music just gets too bright though so lately I've been doing movie no dynamic eq by default and going to music if I think the content I'm on at the time could liven up a bit. Too bright is just a big turn off for me.
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post #5334 of 7035
2/28/13 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

To me I think mac should try movie curve and dynamic EQ off with that same CD based on his description.

Quite right.
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post #5335 of 7035
2/28/13 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

UK firmware is up;

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/articles/firmware-update-tx-nr818-28-02-2013-82777.html

Likely to see the US version later today

It's available for all European countries. Update takes about 10 minutes.


@jmpage2

Remember that one? smile.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412714/onkyo-tx-nr818-official-owners-thread-discussion/2460#post_22443810


Bugs do get fixed if pressure is high enough. Thanks to everyone that contributed!
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post #5336 of 7035
2/28/13 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macuniverse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post


My experience with Audyssey is the opposite to Igor's. I think it does an excellent job in the bass, probably the best of any RC system.

But I think their target curve is wrong in that it is too flat, resulting in a boost in the treble like Markus's graphs show.

This is sometimes OK for HT, but often not for music. Such a flat response is correct nearfield, but sounds too bright from the listening position. IMHO of course..

I was listening to a CD today and it sounded bright at the main listening position (Audy = Music, Dyn EQ=Off, Dyn Vol=Off)

When I switch to Audy=Movie it sounded better. Any views?

 

It could be the difference between the two Audyssey curves:

 

a)7.   What are the Audyssey 'Movie' and 'Music' curves?

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post #5337 of 7035
2/28/13 at 8:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

It's available for all European countries. Update takes about 10 minutes.


@jmpage2

Remember that one? smile.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412714/onkyo-tx-nr818-official-owners-thread-discussion/2460#post_22443810


Bugs do get fixed if pressure is high enough. Thanks to everyone that contributed!

I'm not sure what tipped them over into doing something. I doubt I had much of a role to play in it honestly.
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post #5338 of 7035
2/28/13 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I'm not sure what tipped them over into doing something. I doubt I had much of a role to play in it honestly.

Big thanks to jmpage, marcus, killian, and all those I've missed for pushing and researching the 24p issue!

I'm still confused by the apparent July date on the firmware! Either that date is wrong or Onkyo was sitting on it...
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post #5339 of 7035
2/28/13 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Yes. The only ones with built in amplification are the 3010 or 5010 . I use ext amp . I have unit set up for 11.2 , I switch between heights and wides for 9.2 and now seem to use the wides more than heights. But yes you nee an ext amp for 9.1

cool so you have an external amp to run all your speakers from the amp.
wouldn't it be less expensive for me to just go ahead and buy the 3010 or 5010.

one more question do you think i would enjoy 9.x using both front high and wide and forget about the S back all together.
i have the 616 right now running 7.x running with the front highs i'm going to replace it with the 818 and move the 616 to the den. i want to set it up 9.x adding the surround back but if you think wides would be better???
Edited by bargervais - 2/28/13 at 8:54am
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post #5340 of 7035
2/28/13 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLocker View Post

News from the ONKYO USA Support forum:


UPDATE: The TX-NR 717 and TX-NR 818 24 fps FIRMWARE recently issued via email on a case-by-case basis will be released onto the Onkyo US Support webpage via USB download ONLY. Customers will now be able to download the firmware update onto a USB flash drive and upload onto their receiver to resolve this issue. It is tentatively scheduled to be released March 1st 2013. The TX-NR 717 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0100-0000 and the TX-NR 818 firmware version should read 1110-8103-0101-0000.

Cordially;

Forum Moderator
Will they ever make this available without having to use the USB?
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