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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 180

post #5371 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

I do believe this is wrong, which is unusual . . .

AFAIK, the final amplification stage of any receiver or amp has a fixed voltage gain. Voltage out is determined by voltage in. For any given source, voltage into the final amplification stage is controlled in the preamp stage by setting the volume controll. If we agree that the preamp stage can't see or feel or taste what impedance is attached to the amplifier, then there's no chance that voltage into the amp changes depending on the impedance of the attached speakers. Thus the voltage out of the amp will be the same regardless of speaker impedance, for any given source, at any given volume control setting. Whatever that voltage out is, Ohm's law teaches us that lower impedances will require more current, and for any voltage, the system that uses the most current is using the most power.

That is right! It was funny to read all this talk about Ohm's law and how 'more knowledgeable' people fail at school physics basics rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLocker View Post

That was my point. The higher input at his pre-outs (the boost he is speaking of) will result in higher voltage at the speaker, but not increased power or current, due to the increased impedance at that frequency.
Speakers are not power-to-SPL or current-to-SPL converters, they are too voltage-to-SPL converters (above F3, and voltage to the excursion converters below F3, simplified). But speakers are not one way converters, they convert cone movements back to the electricity. This is why impedance changes. Spike in impedance doesn't mean you need more voltage to get the same SPL/excursion, it just means that the speaker cone moving by it's own resonance is in tact with the voltage provided by the amp, so, the amp needs less energy to move/control the cone at the same amplitude as if there were no resonance. If you would provide the same power or the same current at the resonance frequency it would be producing much more SPL because of the resonance.
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post #5372 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:18pm
A note for those doing the firmware update... remember to check the FW version post update..

You may need to do it twice if you haven't upgraded the 818 from the original shipping FW version... (I beleive this is why there are two sets of files in the download.. one to get to the July 2012 FW, and the other to get for the 022813 version.)

smile.gif
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post #5373 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

absolutely true...i do prefer my cd's with audyssey on music and dynamic eq on though that is why i suggested it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

absolutely true...i do prefer my cd's with audyssey on music and dynamic eq on though that is why i suggested it.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did try Dyn EQ on first but it became not only brighter but it also boosted the bass to become boomy. Movie curve changes the music characteristics a bit but still acceptable.

I wish Audyssey gave us some flexibility here.
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post #5374 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


I think he was saying the music curve is too bright.

To me I think mac should try movie curve and dynamic EQ off with that same CD based on his description.

For me it is material dependent, Sometimes music just gets too bright though so lately I've been doing movie no dynamic eq by default and going to music if I think the content I'm on at the time could liven up a bit. Too bright is just a big turn off for me.

That's correct. Mostly material dependent. Having said that I also chanced my default music settings to Movie, Dyn EQ=Off, Dyn Vol=Off. I change them based on the CD content if needed.
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post #5375 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It could be the difference between the two Audyssey curves:

a)7.   What are the Audyssey 'Movie' and 'Music' curves?

Thanks. Good info.
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post #5376 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Update instructions for firmware 1120-8103-0101-0000

Extract the ZIP file you've downloaded from Onkyo. It contains 5 files and a folder (which contains another 5 files). Copy the folder and the 5 files to the root of your USB flash drive. The contents of the flash drive should look something like this:



When the update has finished after about 10 minutes (display on the AVR shows "Complete!") then press the "On/Standby" button on the AVR.

Thanks Markus and all the others. I posted this also at the USA site and got an immediate reply from the moderator who told me the same thing.

Going to put it in a little later.
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post #5377 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I think I've found a bug in either Onkyo's implementation of Audyssey Dynamic EQ or Audyssey Dynamic EQ itself related to source switching. I'm guessing it's Onkyo's fault, but who knows.

I can reproduce it, so I'm wondering if someone out there has a similar setup who can try it...

Setup:
1) Have War of the Worlds Bluray
2) Have a Queen CD or quality AAC with "Don't Stop Me Now" (I've got the AAC version from Queens Greatest Hits)
3) Play War of the Worlds with DTS Master Audio on BD input and go to the chapter with the news lady @ around -20 dB and have Audyssey Dynamic EQ enabled (with Audyssey Music).
4) Simultaneously play "Don't Stop Me Now" on a source that feeds into TV/CD on the Onkyo --- you shouldn't hear it, but it just primes the data
5) Watch 10 or 20 seconds of bluray
6) Press the TV/CD button to switch to the Queen song, at which point you should hear the Queen music since you started it earlier
7) You should see the video from War of the Worlds and hear the audio from "Don't Stop Me Now"
8) Turn the volume down to -35 dB

The Queen song is going to have messed up / pulsing audio. It seems to be related to the piano playing. Listen to it for 10 seconds and I'm pretty sure you will notice it.

The audio is messed up regardless of the volume, but it's much more obvious at lower levels.

The audio can be fixed by turning Audyssey Dynamic EQ off and then on again. The pulsing goes away and the volume is much louder (without changing the level itself).

I'm doubtful the exact steps above are needed to reproduce it, such as the specific scene or music choice, but wanted to share how I've reproduced it 3 times.

To me, it sounds like Onkyo isn't telling the Audyssey hardware that a "source change" has occurred and Audyssey is applying the wrong corrections to the content.

Anyone out there have these two titles and want to try and reproduce it?

(Fixed some big typos which are now forever immortalized in kbarnes701 quote below)

Anyone have a moment to try this out?

This weekend, or earlier if possible, I'll try it with other content. Now that Onkyo released the firmware for the 24p issue, I'm doubtful anything else will be fixed wink.gif
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post #5378 of 7042
2/28/13 at 4:55pm
I've had this receiver for about two months now. I love it. Main reason I purchased it was for the XT32 and it has done wonders for the overall SQ of my system.

One issue I am having is a popping sound in all channels when I power on my gear. It happens almost every time. I've never had this issue with previous receivers. Called Onkyo. They had me do a factory reset. It hasn't stopped. I don't think it's a ground loop issue cause I've never had ground loop issues. I don't think the popping is damaging my speakers in any way.

I'm running def tech 7004's. CLR2002. SM 450's. Dual SVS PB12's. Ising the 818 as a pre/pro into an Emotiva XPA-3 and two UPA-2's.

Any help would be appreciated. I don't want to send the unit in for service.
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post #5379 of 7042
2/28/13 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

I'm currently running a 9.1 system with backs and heights, I have not tried wide speakers yet and if I do I would have to install inwall speakers. Let me know what DSP mode you prefer, I bounce back from DTS Neo X and Dolby Prologic ll z

That's what I will most likely do as well as my room is narrow highs and backs. Right now I have a 616 in this room running highs so adding the backs will be sweet. I'm going to use the ext amp outs maybe I can switch from highs to wide's to see what the difference will be.
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post #5380 of 7042
2/28/13 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

There is no high frequency boost in the in-room response. I've used the "Music" curve. The resulting in-room response will be flat. If one selects the "Movie" curve the in-room response will fall off at higher frequencies.
My last graphs show (from top to bottom):
- in-room response before Audyssey
- MultEQ filter
- in-room response after Audyssey

I believe the problem with Audyssey's in-room power response optimization approach is that it doesn't incorporate free field polar response data of a speaker. But this is really off-topic here.
But this completely switches off any EQ for the mains, right?
Audyssey should make corrections above the Schröder frequency optional.

Perhaps I should rephrase it. I find a flat in-room FR to be too bright, and would prefer not to have the boost Audyssey apples to create it.

As you said, correction above the Schroder frequency should be optional.
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post #5381 of 7042
2/28/13 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Do we have any volunteers with measurement gear to post Audyssey behavior just like Markus has done? There are more than a few people here who seem to have the measurement gear and the knowledge required to do some measurements to investigate this further. Forget about Igor's problem. Those who are claiming that Audyssey is nearly perfect, can you volunteer to document your setup to show the clear improvement Audyssey has delivered?

I don't have an REW-compatible mic or a compatible PC, and I am not wedded to the concept of Audyssey's near perfection or motivated enough to show that it's misbehaving in my case to buy a mic and dedicate time to measure it out.

Any volunteers willing to measure and document their systems, for the sake of enriching the tribal knowledge here?? smile.gif


I've been following this tread with great interest, and I will post my measurments when I get home from business trip:)

I'm not completely happy with the sound from my MA RX6 and SVS sub in stereo mode. The sound is a little too harsh, especially when Dynamic EQ is activated.
My room is not acoustical treated and one of the walls is concrete, perhaps that's one of the reasons for my listening fatigue.
Nevertheless, after measuring with REW the curves looks nice whith flat frequence response.
I will do a new calibration with the mic a few inches above listening level to see if it helps.
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post #5382 of 7042
2/28/13 at 11:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

That is right! It was funny to read all this talk about Ohm's law and how 'more knowledgeable' people fail at school physics basics rolleyes.gif

What is it now that forces you to make rude and disrespectful comments again? GoatLocker's misunderstanding was resolved and I don't see that anybody else said anything wrong along the way.
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post #5383 of 7042
3/1/13 at 2:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUBS313 View Post

I've had this receiver for about two months now. I love it. Main reason I purchased it was for the XT32 and it has done wonders for the overall SQ of my system.

One issue I am having is a popping sound in all channels when I power on my gear. It happens almost every time. I've never had this issue with previous receivers. Called Onkyo. They had me do a factory reset. It hasn't stopped. I don't think it's a ground loop issue cause I've never had ground loop issues. I don't think the popping is damaging my speakers in any way.

I'm running def tech 7004's. CLR2002. SM 450's. Dual SVS PB12's. Ising the 818 as a pre/pro into an Emotiva XPA-3 and two UPA-2's.

Any help would be appreciated. I don't want to send the unit in for service.

Disconnect everything but one speaker and see if the problem is still there. If it is not reconnect speakers one at a time and test. Then if its still good reconnect sources one by one. You probably have an issue with a specific speaker or source.
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post #5384 of 7042
3/1/13 at 4:58am
I have a question can I use an old receiver to drive back speakers or front high speakers, like if I connect ext amp into Phono or CD input on an old receiver I have will that work or create a problem please give me your thoughts. I'm only asking because I have a few receiver laying around.
Edited by bargervais - 3/8/13 at 8:18am
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post #5385 of 7042
3/1/13 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

It doesn't matter.
Well, I tried both with a spare 128 MB USB jump drive, but my AVR isn't updating when I insert into the front USB port in the "Net" mode.

I see that the instructions from Onkyo state that, "You need at least 32 MB of available space to update the firmware." Does this mean that not only do I need the 105 MBs of space on the jump drive for the files that I downloaded from the Onkyo website, but I also need an extra 32 MBs (137 MB total) of extra/blank space on the jump drive, too? If so, I'm going to have to search long and hard for a 256 MB (or higher) jump drive in the house. I'm sure I have one stuffed in a drawer somewhere.

TLK cool.gif
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post #5386 of 7042
3/1/13 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Well, I tried both with a spare 128 MB USB jump drive, but my AVR isn't updating when I insert into the front USB port in the "Net" mode.

I see that the instructions from Onkyo state that, "You need at least 32 MB of available space to update the firmware." Does this mean that not only do I need the 105 MBs of space on the jump drive for the files that I downloaded from the Onkyo website, but I also need an extra 32 MBs (137 MB total) of extra/blank space on the jump drive, too? If so, I'm going to have to search long and hard for a 256 MB (or higher) jump drive in the house. I'm sure I have one stuffed in a drawer somewhere.

TLK cool.gif

First make sure RIHD is off:
Home > Setup > 7. Hardware Setup > 2. HDMI > HDMI Control (RIHD) > Off

Insert USB stick with firmware, then:
Home >Firmware Update > USB
Edited by markus767 - 3/1/13 at 6:01am
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post #5387 of 7042
3/1/13 at 6:16am
After doing research for 4 months plus... I think almost everyone can agree the 818 has the most bang for the buck of any receiver on the market today. Their are only two negatives associated with this product: 1) 24p problem which is fixed or going to be fixed via firmware and 2) reliability issues.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver... I almost never get extended warranty. In the case of the Onkyo 818 is it worth it to get a 2 or 3 year extended warranty. How many people actually have had a problem with these and how much is over blown internet chatter?

$65 dollars for 2 years and $90 dollars for 3 years... I know its all a calculated risk. Just asking all here if they think given the supposedly reliability problems this tips the scales towards a Yes?
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post #5388 of 7042
3/1/13 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

First make sure RIHD is off:
Home > Setup > 7. Hardware Setup > 2. HDMI > HDMI Control (RIHD) > Off

Insert USB stick with firmware, then:
Home >Firmware Update > USB
Okay. That works! Thank you. I wish the official Onkyo directions were as straightforward as yours! smile.gif

TLK cool.gif
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post #5389 of 7042
3/1/13 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

After doing research for 4 months plus... I think almost everyone can agree the 818 has the most bang for the buck of any receiver on the market today. Their are only two negatives associated with this product: 1) 24p problem which is fixed or going to be fixed via firmware and 2) reliability issues.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver... I almost never get extended warranty. In the case of the Onkyo 818 is it worth it to get a 2 or 3 year extended warranty. How many people actually have had a problem with these and how much is over blown internet chatter?

$65 dollars for 2 years and $90 dollars for 3 years... I know its all a calculated risk. Just asking all here if they think given the supposedly reliability problems this tips the scales towards a Yes?
I never buy an extended warranty on any of my electronic devices. I've never regretted that decision once.

TLK cool.gif
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post #5390 of 7042
3/1/13 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Okay. That works! Thank you. I wish the official Onkyo directions were as straightforward as yours! smile.gif

TLK cool.gif

They probably want to keep their support staff busy smile.gif
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post #5391 of 7042
3/1/13 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

What is it now that forces you to make rude and disrespectful comments again? GoatLocker's misunderstanding was resolved and I don't see that anybody else said anything wrong along the way.

LOL. Apparently, nothing was resolved. We must have a filter issue. I have no confusion...
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post #5392 of 7042
3/1/13 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

I have a question can I use an old receiver to drive back speakers or front high speakers, like if I connect ext amp into phone input on an old receiver I have will that work or create a problem please give me your thoughts. I'm only asking because I have a few receiver laying around.[



If the other receiver has Pre-Ins then your good.
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post #5393 of 7042
3/1/13 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLocker View Post

LOL. Apparently, nothing was resolved. We must have a filter issue. I have no confusion...

Not sure I understand your comment right but what you've said here was not correct.
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post #5394 of 7042
3/1/13 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

After doing research for 4 months plus... I think almost everyone can agree the 818 has the most bang for the buck of any receiver on the market today. Their are only two negatives associated with this product: 1) 24p problem which is fixed or going to be fixed via firmware and 2) reliability issues.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver... I almost never get extended warranty. In the case of the Onkyo 818 is it worth it to get a 2 or 3 year extended warranty. How many people actually have had a problem with these and how much is over blown internet chatter?

$65 dollars for 2 years and $90 dollars for 3 years... I know its all a calculated risk. Just asking all here if they think given the supposedly reliability problems this tips the scales towards a Yes?

Rather than buying a separate extended warranty, I prefer to use my AmEx card to buy electronics items. It automatically adds an additional year of manufacturer warranty equivalent coverage to the products. Even if you want to buy an extended warranty, instead of buying a 3-yr ext. warranty, I can buy using AmEx, and only pay for a 2-yr extended warranty. AmEx would still add the additional year of manufacturer-equivanet warranty at the end of the extended warranty you might have bought. It's a judgment call to what extent you want to CYA smile.gif but AmEx is a great option if you are paying with a credit card anyway. Why not use something already built into the membership benefits?

Regarding the reliability of Onkyos, I guess they are a just as much prone to failures as other brands (I've certainly been burned on Denons, FWIW), and for my money, at this moment in time, the Onkyo was the better value for money due to support for XT32, and the great price I got from J&R.
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post #5395 of 7042
3/1/13 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

After doing research for 4 months plus... I think almost everyone can agree the 818 has the most bang for the buck of any receiver on the market today. Their are only two negatives associated with this product: 1) 24p problem which is fixed or going to be fixed via firmware and 2) reliability issues.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver... I almost never get extended warranty. In the case of the Onkyo 818 is it worth it to get a 2 or 3 year extended warranty. How many people actually have had a problem with these and how much is over blown internet chatter?

$65 dollars for 2 years and $90 dollars for 3 years... I know its all a calculated risk. Just asking all here if they think given the supposedly reliability problems this tips the scales towards a Yes?

I don't normally buy any extended warranties but in the case of the 818, I believe I will. You see a lot of posts where the warranty runs out and folks start having problems (mostly HDMI boards) and for $65/90 it seems to be a good buy.

I've also seen posts where Onkyo replaces old faulty products with new/current units 3+ years later, so you'd be future proof for a very small investment, IMO.
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post #5396 of 7042
3/1/13 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I seriously doubt it.

No magic is going to fix overly compressed / low bitrate sources. The 818 does have block noise reduction, but I cannot say how well it helps.

Wiser to wait for the 818 replacement? I doubt any video processor is going to help much. Sorry to be a downer.

Thanks for the reply.
I'm going to order the 818. New to the thread... how far back do I need to go to understannd the 24P issue? Will the update be required on a new receiver?
Thanks, Rick.
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post #5397 of 7042
3/1/13 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stebrock View Post

Thanks for the reply.
I'm going to order the 818. New to the thread... how far back do I need to go to understannd the 24P issue? Will the update be required on a new receiver?
Thanks, Rick.

Yes... Receiver will probably come with the original firmware (mine did, which I got in the past month).

Just use the internet upgrade to get the latest "internet" firmware, then use the USB approach to move to the newest firmware. I'm not really sure that's required, but it's the safest thing to do and it only takes another 10 minutes or so.

Since you are just ordering, one would hope the North American firmware has been officially published on Onkyo's site by the time you receive your 818. Maybe it has been published today, I haven't looked.

No one that I'm aware of has complained about the 24p issue with the latest firmware...
Edited by MadMyers - 3/1/13 at 12:40pm
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post #5398 of 7042
3/1/13 at 1:19pm
One other question... new 818 or Crutchfield open box 3009 for $1300?
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post #5399 of 7042
3/1/13 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stebrock View Post

One other question... new 818 or Crutchfield open box 3009 for $1300?

Check the description of "open box" items, and if not mentioned on the site, call up Crutchfield to make sure before ordering. Sometimes open box really means "sold as is", and might be missing important accessories (sometimes even remotes and audyssey mics, etc.)

Look out for flash sales on the tx-nr818, as it has sometimes dipped as low as $599 for a brief window, and can mostly found for around $749-$799 from authorized dealers like J&R and B&H. You need to first decide between the features that are important for you, and then see which model offers the best fit for your money. Good luck!
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post #5400 of 7042
3/1/13 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

What is it now that forces you to make rude and disrespectful comments again? GoatLocker's misunderstanding was resolved and I don't see that anybody else said anything wrong along the way.
It is no more disrespectful than to use the 'more knowledgeable' argument in controversy. But this was said not to offend someone, but just as a little bit of humor. I sometimes do idiotic mistakes also and don't expect anyone not to do mistakes wink.gif It just was funny as I said. And it was you who said wrong about the resistance, I hope you will not beat me for noting that, I am sure you know Omh's law well and it was just slip of the pen.

By the way. Installed the new firmware today. Re-calibrated... All the same as I usually do. And it is magic - all speakers detected 10-30Hz higher than usual... And everything sounds now considerably differently. I haven't able to do extensive testing yet - too late evening already - neighbors will not understand that, but what I have tried show considerable improvement in the sense of distortion. I've yet to get used to the new sound, but it seems it does not falling down to screaming-drilling-vibrating mess at mid-high frequencies anymore. Even when there is excessive brightness on some recordings they doesn't sound disturbing. I really hope it is the end of the story finally, I will get back and report here when some more data is available.

PS. There was one quirk during firmware flashing. No errors, but after update it didn't recognize two digits of the installed firmware version. I had to reflash and factory-reset the unit to get it recognized. It was DSP2 part of the firmware. I guess Audyssey or some its parts resides there. There was no visible quirks when I was updating to July firmware and version was always shown correctly before, but may be there was something hidden that went wrong... May be this is why they are disabled network updates for now... Just guesses and speculations of course, but I really doubt XT32 itself has been changed in this firmware release.
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