or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 224

post #6691 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Honestly why would anyone buy an 818 anyways for stereo reproduction when there are far more competent models available if peak 2 channel performance is what someone is after? This is probably a combination of things including beefier amps in his old machine as well as 15+ years of being used to the way it sounded.

good point!
post #6692 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Honestly why would anyone buy an 818 anyways for stereo reproduction when there are far more competent models available if peak 2 channel performance is what someone is after? This is probably a combination of things including beefier amps in his old machine as well as 15+ years of being used to the way it sounded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

good point!

I actually asked him this very question, pages back, when he was flip-flopping over " to purchase, or not to purchase...."
He said he only had two-channel, and was wondering if it was a good purchase.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

Would the Onkyo 809 be just as good as the 818 even if it does have a lesser version of Audyssey? The specs for the Onkyo 809 seem identical with the 818 with both being 135 watts 2-channel driven. The thing that I see better with the Onkyo 818 is the better version of Audyssey. Surely the lesser version of Audyssey with the Onkyo 809 is sufficient enough to setup only two speakers and the better version of Audyssey with the 818 may just be overkill at $200 more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

As the 809 is plagued with problems...I wouldn't risk it.
The 818 seems to be more of a thoroughly tested, and stable unit. (maybe the 806-9 units were R&D for the 818...)
If you want a 2 ch. setup...get a 2 ch receiver. Why are you spending all of the extra money on channels that you won't use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

My setup will be a Panasonic ST50 HDTV and a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 685 speakers.
post #6693 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post


I actually asked him this very question, pages back, when he was flip-flopping over " to purchase, or not to purchase...."
He said he only had two-channel, and was wondering if it was a good purchase.

I believe the 818 is a solid reciever....however i stayed away from it due to onkyo's past history. that being said no reciever will satisfy every enthusiast. we all hear differently and have different needs. perhaps roman was not sure what he was looking for. i suggested the a820 because it may work well in his case and save costs on restocking. worth a shot because i believe there are much better options out there than a 1997 sony...just sayin. In the end it sounds like the audiophile friend did not set up the avr correctly. 2ch or 7ch should not matter. all new avr's are rated 2ch driven, so they should drive 2ch stereo similar to a dedicated 2ch stereo reciever.
post #6694 of 9474
Thanks, the sound bar is for the wife/kids. I just noted that my Panasonic tv does not support ARC. Does that mean I need to connect a digital audio out back from the tv to the receiver? The tv manual says that this connection will only give you 2 channel audio. Does this limit all satellite audio to 2 channel? Is there a way around this like a direct connection from the satellite box to the receiver or something else? Thanks for your help.
post #6695 of 9474
Feed the optical cable straight to AV from the satalite box.
post #6696 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

I got my 818 in the mail today and I briefly took the cover off to have a peak and I must say this thing is a hulking monster. There's nothing pretty about this beast and that's the way I like it! I anticipate plenty of power to drive my speakers and I don't need anything more and I would certainly not settle for anything less. This is awesome considering this is my first home theater setup and I'm probably going to hook everything up tomorrow. I can't wait to test this thing with everything hooked up. I'm certainly no audiophile but I'll report back with my thoughts.

Could this cause a problem for returning the unit? confused.gif
post #6697 of 9474
Thread Starter 
Sounds like he already is going to eat a restocking fee.
post #6698 of 9474
Need some help on basic set up with DTV box, Panasonic tv with no ARC and the 818. Is it DTV by hdmi to 818 and also optical from DTV to 818. Then 818 by hdmi to tv. All other connections like blue ray by hdmi to 818. Will this provide 5.1 from DTV sources and blue ray, etc. Thanks.
post #6699 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankluck View Post

Need some help on basic set up with DTV box, Panasonic tv with no ARC and the 818. Is it DTV by hdmi to 818 and also optical from DTV to 818. Then 818 by hdmi to tv. All other connections like blue ray by hdmi to 818. Will this provide 5.1 from DTV sources and blue ray, etc. Thanks.
Yes.
post #6700 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWD69 View Post

Could this cause a problem for returning the unit? confused.gif

No, I didn't mean the actual metal cover of the avr but the cover material that it was wrapped in. biggrin.gif
post #6701 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Honestly why would anyone buy an 818 anyways for stereo reproduction when there are far more competent models available if peak 2 channel performance is what someone is after? This is probably a combination of things including beefier amps in his old machine as well as 15+ years of being used to the way it sounded.

Yes, my relative said the Onkyo 818's amp isn't very good compared to the Sony's. For a few years in the late 90s and early 2000s I believe Sony has released some ES receivers with some good amplifiers from what I've read. Here's the owners manual of the Sony receiver I was talking about.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/STRDA80ES.PDF

I am going to sell the Onkyo. I'd rather not deal with it because even if I keep messing with it I feel there's no way it's going to match the Sony receiver's sound quality. Currently have a person that wants to buy it for $550 shipped.
post #6702 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe the 818 is a solid reciever....however i stayed away from it due to onkyo's past history. that being said no reciever will satisfy every enthusiast. we all hear differently and have different needs. perhaps roman was not sure what he was looking for. i suggested the a820 because it may work well in his case and save costs on restocking. worth a shot because i believe there are much better options out there than a 1997 sony...just sayin. In the end it sounds like the audiophile friend did not set up the avr correctly. 2ch or 7ch should not matter. all new avr's are rated 2ch driven, so they should drive 2ch stereo similar to a dedicated 2ch stereo reciever.

Much better receivers out there than the 1997 Sony receiver? Perhaps the ES models and Sony STR-DB930 from 1998-2001? cool.gif I also thought newer is better but the Onkyo's amplifier isn't anywhere near the amplifier of the STR-DA80ES from 1997.
post #6703 of 9474
Hi Roman,

i can't understand your problems. I think the SONY is "soundet" and the Onkyo plays "neutral and linearly" which is correct for Movie sound (Audyssey etc.) If you didn't like this you can use the manual EQ to adapt the Subwoofer and each speaker and give it more bass etc.

What is your relative using for hardware that he can say the Onkyo isn't a good amp?

Regards, Ben
post #6704 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyTurbo View Post

Hi Roman,

i can't understand your problems. I think the SONY is "soundet" and the Onkyo plays "neutral and linearly" which is correct for Movie sound (Audyssey etc.) If you didn't like this you can use the manual EQ to adapt the Subwoofer and each speaker and give it more bass etc.

What is your relative using for hardware that he can say the Onkyo isn't a good amp?

Regards, Ben

I don't have a subwoofer and simply using two B&W 685 speakers. With the Onkyo the speaker sound is lifeless and when hooked up to the Sony receiver my speakers really shine and I feel I don't even need a subwoofer since the setup is in a bedroom.

My relative uses separate components and spends thousands on audio equipment. I'm not completely sure of all of his equipment since he alternates often and this is his hobby so he is constantly changing his equipment. I know that he has recently bought two 6 foot tall speakers for $5,000, two Emotiva XPA-1 monoblock amplifiers and a $2,000 Valedyne subwoofer. I also saw a McIntosh pre-amp. He takes this hobby seriously as you can see.

He said that while the sound can improve with separate components he still thinks my B&W 685 speakers connected to the Sony STR-DA80ES still sound really good. Coming from a guy that spends thousands upon thousands on audio equipment and has been in this hobby for 20 years I'd say his opinion is rather powerful since he has heard it all and knows what to look for in quality audio equipment. He also recommended the B&W 685s to me and took me to a high-end audio equipment showroom to hear them in action. I was sold and he was able to get me a great deal for them because he had recently made some expensive purchases at the store so they really value his business and don't mind giving him discounts.
Edited by RomanBlade86 - 5/4/13 at 2:18pm
post #6705 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post


I don't have a subwoofer and simply using two B&W 685 speakers. With the Onkyo the speaker sound is lifeless and when hooked up to the Sony receiver my speakers really shine and I feel I don't even need a subwoofer since the setup is in a bedroom.

My relative uses separate components and spends thousands on audio equipment. I'm not completely sure of all of his equipment since he alternates often and this is his hobby so he is constantly changing his equipment. I know that he has recently bought two 6 foot tall speakers for $5,000, two Emotiva XPA-1 monoblock amplifiers and a $2,000 Valedyne subwoofer. I also saw a McIntosh pre-amp. He takes this hobby seriously as you can see.

He said that while the sound can improve with separate components he still thinks my B&W 685 speakers connected to the Sony STR-DA80ES still sound really good. Coming from a guy that spends thousands upon thousands on audio equipment and has been in this hobby for 20 years I'd say his opinion is rather powerful since he has heard it all and knows what to look for in quality audio equipment. He also recommended the B&W 685s to me and took me to a high-end audio equipment showroom to hear them in action. I was sold on their sound and he was able to get me a great deal for them because he was a frequent customer at the store.

My hunch says you did not prefer the high frequency roll-off of Audyssey, which you could have turned off and used the flat/music curve.

post #6706 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

Much better receivers out there than the 1997 Sony receiver? Perhaps the ES models and Sony STR-DB930 from 1998-2001? cool.gif I also thought newer is better but the Onkyo's amplifier isn't anywhere near the amplifier of the STR-DA80ES from 1997.

If one was that serious about driving a set of speakers, then imo i would get a new reciever that has hdmi and all the new technology, including pre outs, then add a seperate amp. I dont care how good the sony es line was back in the late 90's, it will not hold a candle to a good external amp.
post #6707 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

My hunch says you did not prefer the high frequency roll-off of Audyssey, which you could have turned off and used the flat/music curve.

We tried the sound settings before we ran Audyssey. It wouldn't take an audiophile to know the differences between the Onkyo's sound and the Sony's. The sound was like night and day. The Onkyo's sound was flat and lifeless and the Sony's was rich and powerful and I felt like I was in a movie theater minus the surround sound. He believed the Onkyo had a weak amplifier compared to the Sony receiver. That seemed to be the greatest factor in the sound production.
post #6708 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

If one was that serious about driving a set of speakers, then imo i would get a new reciever that has hdmi and all the new technology, including pre outs, then add a seperate amp. I dont care how good the sony es line was back in the late 90's, it will not hold a candle to a good external amp.

A receiver isn't even necessary and getting a pre-amp and amp would be the much better choice.
post #6709 of 9474
I believe if you have this much respect for your relatives opinion, you would have gained his advice about the 818, and probably took you to demo it, with the speakers you have. You made a bad judgement it seems.
post #6710 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post


We tried the sound settings before we ran Audyssey. It wouldn't take an audiophile to know the differences between the Onkyo's sound and the Sony's. The sound was like night and day. The Onkyo's sound was flat and lifeless and the Sony's was rich and powerful and I felt like I was in a movie theater minus the surround sound. He believed the Onkyo had a weak amplifier compared to the Sony receiver. That seemed to be the greatest factor in the sound production.

Not sure your stance but I am in the camp that believes that amps to not have a sound signature unless they are poorly designed or driven beyond their specs.  Therefore I think that you were not comparing apples to apples as far as settings go (no processing, not bass/treble boost etc), one of the receivers is defective or it was placebo that there was a major difference.

post #6711 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Not sure your stance but I am in the camp that believes that amps to not have a sound signature unless they are poorly designed or driven beyond their specs.  Therefore I think that you were not comparing apples to apples as far as settings go (no processing, not bass/treble boost etc), one of the receivers is defective or it was placebo that there was a major difference.

It definitely wasn't a placebo effect. I think even a deaf man could feel the difference in the bass vibrations in the speakers when powered between these two receivers.
Edited by RomanBlade86 - 5/4/13 at 2:51pm
post #6712 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

I believe if you have this much respect for your relatives opinion, you would have gained his advice about the 818, and probably took you to demo it, with the speakers you have. You made a bad judgement it seems.

He did tell me to either stick with the Sony receiver or get separate components but I didn't listen to him and he teased me about it too. Instead I listened to others that made it seem like it was a must that I get something with HDMI if I plan to watch Blu-ray movies and that separate components are overkill for properly driving my speakers. Some even said that a modern receiver that was even cheaper than the 818 will do the job. If the Onkyo 818 sounded so bad with my B&W 685s I can only imagine something that was cheaper and lighter. I'll just stick with the Sony receiver for now and maybe down the line take my relative's advice and buy a pre-amp and amp.
post #6713 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post


It definitely wasn't a placebo. I think even a deaf man could feel the difference in the bass between these two receivers.

Can't be ruled out based on your test method.

 

In the end, glad you still have a receiver that sounds good to you.  I'd just caution that if you purchase something different to give it a fair comparison and don't let your wallet determine which one sounds better.  :-)

post #6714 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

It definitely wasn't a placebo effect. I think even a deaf man could feel the difference in the bass vibrations in the speakers when powered between these two receivers.
If bass is missing, adjust the AV settings and enhance that. I have mine on -10db bass and all my speakers xover at 200hz most of the time because there's too much low end for the majority (without my sub-woofer on, it's never on)
post #6715 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Can't be ruled out based on your test method.

In the end, glad you still have a receiver that sounds good to you.  I'd just caution that if you purchase something different to give it a fair comparison and don't let your wallet determine which one sounds better.  :-)

Yes, this is just one case where newer isn't always better. I really wanted the Onkyo to sound better than the old Sony receiver but I don't think when tested side by side with the B&W 685s anyone would choose the Onkyo's sound over the Sony's. I can't believe that something that is made in 1997 without all the bells and whistles and now costs $200 or less on eBay can sound better than today's HDMI compatible feature-packed receiver that just last year retailed for $1,200. The Sony STR-DA80ES also retailed for that price back in 1997 but I suppose you got a lot for your money back then than you do now. cool.gif
post #6716 of 9474
Decided to do some tests myself. For the first time, re-arranged my banana plugs and solo'd my Zensor 1's. As fronts, default settings, not a redone calibration, played a bit of Tron Legacy and Alter Bridge, I must say the bass wasn't blowing me away, but a quick +4db on the bass quickly improved that.
Not saying you're ********ting us, although you need to provide some more details.
I do believe you need to download the 818 pdf manual, and do a bit of reading.
post #6717 of 9474
If you had set up the onkyo it would have wowed you, but you didn't set it up properly and your and your relatives bias is allowing you to think the old Sony is "better".

Let me know how that Sony works with high def lossless tracks.....I hope you are happy in the end that is what matters. However I caution you on "badmouthing" modern receivers until such a time you take the time to learn how to set one up correctly.
post #6718 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

Decided to do some tests myself. For the first time, re-arranged my banana plugs and solo'd my Zensor 1's. As fronts, default settings, not a redone calibration, played a bit of Tron Legacy and Alter Bridge, I must say the bass wasn't blowing me away, but a quick +4db on the bass quickly improved that.
Not saying you're ********ting us, although you need to provide some more details.
I do believe you need to download the 818 pdf manual, and do a bit of reading.

I do admit we only spent maybe an hour working on this thing so it was definitely not enough time to master this receiver. I just decided to sell it anyway because I don't want to bother trying to improve it little by little when the Sony receiver is perfect right out the gate.
post #6719 of 9474
I can see Roman's point. I have a 17 year old HK amp that
Outputs 60 watts per channel. I still marvel at the sound that
Comes out of this beast. I haven't compared it to my newer
AVR's, which require quite a bit more tweaking, but it
Still puts a grin on my face when I fire it up.

Roman, does your relative have experience with modern
AVR's? Seems from your description of his system that he
Is running a traditional 2 channel set up without modern DSP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Re RomanBlade86: I find it interesting that Roman still has
Not communicated his settings or set-up procedure to us.
His "audiophile" relative "helped" him with his set-up but,
It has already been admitted that he didn't run all the mic
Positions. Surely,if the relative "knew" what he was doing
This would have been corrected.

Makes me wonder what else is not set-up correctly?

On a separated thread I recommended a simpler solution
Based on a 2 speaker system. HK 3490 or Outlaw Audio
RR2150.
post #6720 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

I can see Roman's point. I have a 17 year old HK amp that
Outputs 60 watts per channel. I still marvel at the sound that
Comes out of this beast. I haven't compared it to my newer
AVR's, which require quite a bit more tweaking, but it
Still puts a grin on my face when I fire it up.

Roman, does your relative have experience with modern
AVR's? Seems from your description of his system that he
Is running a traditional 2 channel set up without modern DSP.

I'm not sure whether he has experience with modern AVRs but he has said that he has bought receivers in the past but now he knows better and only sticks with separate components. Unlike many others he doesn't feel that HDMI gives an advantage because separate components don't have HDMI inputs and separate components are the way to go for the best sound.

He has two setups. One is in the living room and one is in his downstairs home theater. In the living room he is using these two 6 foot tall speakers that he bought for $5,000 and a $2,000 Velodyne subwoofer. Downstairs he has surround sound with a 9 speaker setup I believe. All of his setups are powered by a pre-amp and amp.

He also said that when he was buying the Sony receiver back in the day he was told the receiver would be ideal for two-channels unlike some other receivers that they were selling. Supposedly the receiver makes a 2-channel setup shine and I'm certainly not going to argue with that statement. When I tested Elizabeth and Robocop on Blu-ray the movies sounded superb from my speakers. My relative said this was due to the powerful amplifier in the receiver.

He also feels that this Sony ES receiver was a high-end receiver from back in the day so it was designed for high-end equipment unlike many of today's mass produced receivers which aren't designed for high-end equipment and the audiophile in mind. I'm sure some of his reasoning is true because there seem to be many people that believe that the quality of receivers have gone way down considerably from back in the days. Just read the comments section of this article:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20082026-47/how-can-30-year-old-receivers-sound-better-than-new-ones/
Edited by RomanBlade86 - 5/4/13 at 4:26pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion