or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 266

post #7951 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

I once heard a 9.4 system, using JTR Triple 8HTs as the surrounds. Freak'in amazing. Watched Blackhawk down and it literally felt like you were there. Subs were Captivators I think, or something gigantic from Seaton.

yeah, ask kbarnes how he likes his subm.biggrin.gif
post #7952 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Watch the new Star Trek, Into Darkness last night. Seriously, I can't believe how good this 818 sounds. The movie experience is phenomenal. The bass management is blowing me away, as is the clarity and completeness of the surround field. This really puts the UMC to shame. I've really been missing out.

I don't know if it's the Audyssey XT32, or just the AVR, but I am impressed...a very happy customer. I only did 3 listening positions with Audyssey, because there really aren't more than that in my room.

Now I just need to figure out how to play stereo music with full range going to my fronts, and still send LFE to my woofers. I have fronts speakers that play below 30Hz, so I get frustrated when they get crossed over at 60 or 80. But I also love bass, and like my dual 15" to playing during music. Hope I can figure this one out, but I haven't messed with it too much yet.

 

It;'s not "listening positions" you are measuring with Audyssey. Have a read of this:

 

d)2.   Do I really need to use all the available Audyssey mic positions?

post #7953 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

MCACC doesn't EQ the bass frequencies of course...

Good point; whatever Audyssey is doing to bass, so far I don't like it though.

It is possible I have become used to listening to things the "wrong" way since I have never had bass management until I got the 818. I just turned it up 'til it sounded good.

 

That is a real possibility. People get used to humpy and boomy bass - when it's calibrated to flat, they feel something is missing. It is: the humps and bumps. XT32 does a great job on the bass frequencies, but there may be a reason why it hasn’t done its best for you.  Bring it over to the Official Audyssey Thread if you want further advice on it. 

 

f)5.    Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

post #7954 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Anything shot on film has more than enough resolution to make a 4K transfer. The movie studios could introduce 4k tomorrow if they wanted to, and if there was demand, and if the playback hardware was available and if there were enough people with 4K displays out there...
 
In some ways, 4K has become a huge marketing tool and little else. At bottom, 4K displays are LCD displays and they suffer from all the problems of LCD displays - inherently weak black levels, motion handling issues, hotspotting etc etc. Having higher resolution doesn't solve any of these problems. 4K is not the "badge of quality" that many seem to assume it is. Personally, at the current state of the art, I’d prefer a top line 1080p plasma to a 4K LCD.
 
The next big thing for consumer displays is OLED.

Scary part is that 8K will follow shortly after the market is saturated with outdated equipment as they continue to spoon feed us technology! Imagine if they threw out there the best they have right now and everyone purchased it! What would they do for business then? I purchased my Sony XBR 65" TV and paid $4000 and a year ago it was $6999! Then it will most likely be the last Full Array LED TV since it is to expensive to produce. Even the new 4K is edge lit panels. Remember Plasma TVs that were $20,000? That now sell for Hundreds of dollars now. So it will be a while before I get a 4k TV .
post #7955 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

I agree with most of your post...However, the BS I was referring to, is from onkyo themselves...there may have never been "official" documentation, regarding the heat generated, but one of the first things the "techs" asked when you got them on the phone (after: 'did you try a manual reset?", and "did you unplug the unit for 30 seconds?"), was: "does the unit have adequate ventilation?"
Don't get me wrong here, the 818 is hands down the best receiver I have seen in my 30 years as an enthusiast...
BUT Onkyo's "Tech Support" is sub par...and their "Customer Service" is abysmal...(until very recently). So much so, that I had started a case with the BBB...(to no avail), over my 807, which was a lemon from day one.
I never said they intentionally made a "flawed product"... but the response after the fact was not in keeping with good business OR good customer service. (until they were forced into a resolution.)
Again, why did you get a replacement with a 5 year warranty? And I had to fight tooth and nail, for two years to get a refurb with zero warranty...(unless I wanted to pay for one)? Where is the logic? There should be ONE standard...

Let's talk about that for a second. I do not believe that they intentially put out a flawed product but I bet that when it finally came to light they made a decision not to go replace all that was already produced and figured they would handle issues one on one! Just think how many are out there where the owners do not have a clue as to having an issue with their unit? Just like Samsung TV with their severe banding and clouding issues with all their led TVs. How many are
out there that the consumer does not know they have a severely defective unit? Samsung just handles complaints as they roll in. I had a Samsung 65ES8000 that was swapped twice and the panel replaced twice in a 6 month period until I finally switched to Sonys XBR! Never had an issue with swapping since they knew they were defective. Just think about all of the consumers that are tech challenged and just figure expensive equals good and do not know the difference?
post #7956 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It;'s not "listening positions" you are measuring with Audyssey. Have a read of this:

d)2.   Do I really need to use all the available Audyssey mic positions?

Thanks for the link. That was a good read. I'll go back and run it with all positions.
post #7957 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is a real possibility. People get used to humpy and boomy bass - when it's calibrated to flat, they feel something is missing. It is: the humps and bumps.

This must have been me. Bass is much more subdued now, not as boomy, giving the feeling that there is less bass. However, I'm now hearing LFE effects crystal clear, and powerfully, when they are supposed to happen, which has been a whole new experience. Rumbly, bumbly bass is gone, leaving only what the sound engineer created (or so I believe). It's not more bass, rather it is better quality bass.

I went from having my subwoofer amp gain at 12 o'clock with my old processor, to 7 o'clock with the 818, and getting better bass.
post #7958 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

+49 is the international dial code for Germany. Their UK support is in *Germany*??  Wow.

Yeep, they have single support center for UK and Germany. smile.gif
post #7959 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Watch the new Star Trek, Into Darkness last night. Seriously, I can't believe how good this 818 sounds. The movie experience is phenomenal. The bass management is blowing me away, as is the clarity and completeness of the surround field. This really puts the UMC to shame. I've really been missing out.

I don't know if it's the Audyssey XT32, or just the AVR, but I am impressed...a very happy customer. I only did 3 listening positions with Audyssey, because there really aren't more than that in my room.

Now I just need to figure out how to play stereo music with full range going to my fronts, and still send LFE to my woofers. I have fronts speakers that play below 30Hz, so I get frustrated when they get crossed over at 60 or 80. But I also love bass, and like my dual 15" to playing during music. Hope I can figure this one out, but I haven't messed with it too much yet.


I only have seating for 4 but did the full 8 point and it sounded better.
post #7960 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake608 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

I agree with most of your post...However, the BS I was referring to, is from onkyo themselves...there may have never been "official" documentation, regarding the heat generated, but one of the first things the "techs" asked when you got them on the phone (after: 'did you try a manual reset?", and "did you unplug the unit for 30 seconds?"), was: "does the unit have adequate ventilation?"
Don't get me wrong here, the 818 is hands down the best receiver I have seen in my 30 years as an enthusiast...
BUT Onkyo's "Tech Support" is sub par...and their "Customer Service" is abysmal...(until very recently). So much so, that I had started a case with the BBB...(to no avail), over my 807, which was a lemon from day one.
I never said they intentionally made a "flawed product"... but the response after the fact was not in keeping with good business OR good customer service. (until they were forced into a resolution.)
Again, why did you get a replacement with a 5 year warranty? And I had to fight tooth and nail, for two years to get a refurb with zero warranty...(unless I wanted to pay for one)? Where is the logic? There should be ONE standard...

Let's talk about that for a second. I do not believe that they intentially put out a flawed product but I bet that when it finally came to light they made a decision not to go replace all that was already produced and figured they would handle issues one on one! 

 

Not really. It didn’t work that way. The HDMI board failure issue didn't show up in xx07 series units until they were 24 months old (approximately). Onkyo operate on a 12 month model cycle. So by the time the problem first showed up in the xx07, the xx08 models had been out for 1 year and were about to be replaced by the xx09 models. This explains why the xx09 models had the same issue and why it appears as if Onkyo just carried on releasing new model years product with the same old fault. They didn't - nobody knew about the fault until the xx09 models were already on the street.

 

No matter how 'unsavvy' the owners of the Onkyo units with this issue, there is no way they would not recognise no sound coming from their unit as a fault ;)

post #7961 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It;'s not "listening positions" you are measuring with Audyssey. Have a read of this:

d)2.   Do I really need to use all the available Audyssey mic positions?

Thanks for the link. That was a good read. I'll go back and run it with all positions.

 

My pleasure. Glad you found it helpful.

post #7962 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake608 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Anything shot on film has more than enough resolution to make a 4K transfer. The movie studios could introduce 4k tomorrow if they wanted to, and if there was demand, and if the playback hardware was available and if there were enough people with 4K displays out there...
 
In some ways, 4K has become a huge marketing tool and little else. At bottom, 4K displays are LCD displays and they suffer from all the problems of LCD displays - inherently weak black levels, motion handling issues, hotspotting etc etc. Having higher resolution doesn't solve any of these problems. 4K is not the "badge of quality" that many seem to assume it is. Personally, at the current state of the art, I’d prefer a top line 1080p plasma to a 4K LCD.
 
The next big thing for consumer displays is OLED.

Scary part is that 8K will follow shortly after the market is saturated with outdated equipment as they continue to spoon feed us technology! Imagine if they threw out there the best they have right now and everyone purchased it! What would they do for business then? I purchased my Sony XBR 65" TV and paid $4000 and a year ago it was $6999! Then it will most likely be the last Full Array LED TV since it is to expensive to produce. Even the new 4K is edge lit panels. Remember Plasma TVs that were $20,000? That now sell for Hundreds of dollars now. So it will be a while before I get a 4k TV .

 

Yes, I am in no hurry to upgrade my PJ to 4K. TBH, viewing on a 92 inch screen from about 8.5 feet distance, I am not seeing anything in the PQ that could really be improved by 4K. I actually don't want the image any 'sharper' and I am seeing no artifacts that are a result of 1920x1080 resolution. If I had a 140 inch screen and was viewing from a distance perhaps closer than ideal, I might be persuaded.

post #7963 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is a real possibility. People get used to humpy and boomy bass - when it's calibrated to flat, they feel something is missing. It is: the humps and bumps.

This must have been me. Bass is much more subdued now, not as boomy, giving the feeling that there is less bass. However, I'm now hearing LFE effects crystal clear, and powerfully, when they are supposed to happen, which has been a whole new experience. Rumbly, bumbly bass is gone, leaving only what the sound engineer created (or so I believe). It's not more bass, rather it is better quality bass.

I went from having my subwoofer amp gain at 12 o'clock with my old processor, to 7 o'clock with the 818, and getting better bass.

 

What you describe is a text-book response to calibrated bass. At first you feel something is missing, then you realise that the bass quality is much better. And then, when the bass does kick in, it comes in lightning fast, and disappears just as quickly - nice and tight and controlled. This is a major step forward for anyone who has experienced boomy, flabby bass in the past. You may also notice an 

improvement further up the frequency range because it is no longer being masked by all that flab.

post #7964 of 9474
My initial contact was via the onkyo support form (essential as it creates a ticket number for you)

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/support-273.html

From then on updates were via email

customercare_eu@eu.onkyo.com

and calls from Mark the EU Customer Services Manager
post #7965 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

+49 is the international dial code for Germany. Their UK support is in *Germany*??  Wow.

Yeep, they have single support center for UK and Germany. smile.gif

 

Thanks Igor. I never realised that. I have never (knock on wood) needed service on any of my Onkyos.

post #7966 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickWells View Post

My initial contact was via the onkyo support form (essential as it creates a ticket number for you)

http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/support-273.html

From then on updates were via email

customercare_eu@eu.onkyo.com

and calls from Mark the EU Customer Services Manager

 

Thanks - useful to know. My 5509 is almost 24 months old.....

post #7967 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Not really. It didn’t work that way. The HDMI board failure issue didn't show up in xx07 series units until they were 24 months old (approximately). Onkyo operate on a 12 month model cycle. So by the time the problem first showed up in the xx07, the xx08 models had been out for 1 year and were about to be replaced by the xx09 models. This explains why the xx09 models had the same issue and why it appears as if Onkyo just carried on releasing new model years product with the same old fault. They didn't - nobody knew about the fault until the xx09 models were already on the street.

No matter how 'unsavvy' the owners of the Onkyo units with this issue, there is no way they would not recognise no sound coming from their unit as a fault wink.gif

I have to disagree here...while you may like to believe that they "didn't know" until two years later, I am going to assume that the first few that failed before the two year mark, and got a "repair" instead of a board replacement, or a replacement unit altogether, showed them all they needed to know. Look at all the "re-solder" repairs that were completed before the boards were even discussed to be replaced.
I think you are fooling yourself, that they weren't somehow trying to pass it off as a select few, or an abnormality. I am certain that they may not have been aware of the scope of what they were in for, as those first few failed, but, you can't tell me that the first techs that worked on the first failed units didn't see this coming.
I have worked for automotive dealerships most of my adult life. I have performed warranty repairs, as well as tested and documented for warranty purposes. I have seen denial on the part of the manufacturer, and blindness in the eyes f the consumer. I can tell you this. After a few cars with the same issue, we knew what we were going to be in for.
post #7968 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post


Now I just need to figure out how to play stereo music with full range going to my fronts, and still send LFE to my woofers.

That may be counter-productive.
Quote:
I have fronts speakers that play below 30Hz, so I get frustrated when they get crossed over at 60 or 80.

Why be frustrated? That may be a good thing.
Quote:
But I also love bass, and like my dual 15" to playing during music. Hope I can figure this one out, but I haven't messed with it too much yet.

More details?

Most people find that Audyssey's choices for Xovers are pretty good.
post #7969 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Not really. It didn’t work that way. The HDMI board failure issue didn't show up in xx07 series units until they were 24 months old (approximately). Onkyo operate on a 12 month model cycle. So by the time the problem first showed up in the xx07, the xx08 models had been out for 1 year and were about to be replaced by the xx09 models. This explains why the xx09 models had the same issue and why it appears as if Onkyo just carried on releasing new model years product with the same old fault. They didn't - nobody knew about the fault until the xx09 models were already on the street.

No matter how 'unsavvy' the owners of the Onkyo units with this issue, there is no way they would not recognise no sound coming from their unit as a fault wink.gif

I have to disagree here...while you may like to believe that they "didn't know" until two years later, I am going to assume that the first few that failed before the two year mark, and got a "repair" instead of a board replacement, or a replacement unit altogether, showed them all they needed to know. Look at all the "re-solder" repairs that were completed before the boards were even discussed to be replaced.
I think you are fooling yourself, that they weren't somehow trying to pass it off as a select few, or an abnormality. I am certain that they may not have been aware of the scope of what they were in for, as those first few failed, but, you can't tell me that the first techs that worked on the first failed units didn't see this coming.
I have worked for automotive dealerships most of my adult life. I have performed warranty repairs, as well as tested and documented for warranty purposes. I have seen denial on the part of the manufacturer, and blindness in the eyes f the consumer. I can tell you this. After a few cars with the same issue, we knew what we were going to be in for.

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All the evidence I have seen shows the problem showed up at around 24 months of usage, which makes the scenario I describe perfectly reasonable. Guessing that some problems showed up way earlier is just that: a guess.

post #7970 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All the evidence I have seen shows the problem showed up at around 24 months of usage, which makes the scenario I describe perfectly reasonable. Guessing that some problems showed up way earlier is just that: a guess.
I am certain I can go back in the old threads and find early evidence of failure.
Some people had the board repair 2 and 3 times...
Edit:
I am not disagreeing with you for argument's sake...(I know it may seem that way)...I thank you for your efforts with Audyssey, and respect your knowledge and expertise. I have found much of your information extremely useful and reliable.
But after my experience with Onkyo, and all the denial on their part...and the fact that they actually ignored call after call, and email after email, (Some to department heads, and supervisors), until I got the BBB involved...I am a little soured on the CE industry as a whole. (I had a similar experience with Samsung)
Edited by kevin g. - 9/20/13 at 6:24am
post #7971 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

I am certain I can go back in the old threads and find early evidence of failure.
Some people had the board repair 2 and 3 times...
Edit:
I am not disagreeing with you for argument's sake...(I know it may seem that way)...I thank you for your efforts with Audyssey, and respect your knowledge and expertise. I have found much of your information extremely useful and reliable.
But after my experience with Onkyo, and all the denial on their part...and the fact that they actually ignored call after call, and email after email, (Some to department heads, and supervisors), until I got the BBB involved...I am a little soured on the CE industry as a whole. (I had a similar experience with Samsung)

The truth will lay somewhere in between. As an electrical and hardware engineer who builds avionics that your lives depend on when flying, even my products are shipped with known 'issues'. Not safety issues, rather reliability, obsolescence, part tolerance, manufacturing variability, and others. All companies must do a cost benefit analysis to find out the appropriate corrective action to issues that impact customer experience and warranty repairs. This is tougher for consumer electronics, because there is no control over how the consumer installs and uses the product. Unless someone here knows the hardware engineers at Onkyo that work on the HDMI boards, all the facts will remain buried. We are left with speculation at best.
post #7972 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Watch the new Star Trek, Into Darkness last night. Seriously, I can't believe how good this 818 sounds. The movie experience is phenomenal. The bass management is blowing me away, as is the clarity and completeness of the surround field. This really puts the UMC to shame. I've really been missing out.

I don't know if it's the Audyssey XT32, or just the AVR, but I am impressed...a very happy customer. I only did 3 listening positions with Audyssey, because there really aren't more than that in my room.

Now I just need to figure out how to play stereo music with full range going to my fronts, and still send LFE to my woofers. I have fronts speakers that play below 30Hz, so I get frustrated when they get crossed over at 60 or 80. But I also love bass, and like my dual 15" to playing during music. Hope I can figure this one out, but I haven't messed with it too much yet.
Man, I hated that movie. It was too "easy" and "cliche" for me. Reminded me of 2012.

I'm sure "Direct" gives you unaltered audio with LFE unlike "Pure Audio" don't quote me on that though.
If you're using a sub with your fronts, you'll lose nothing setting them at 60Hz, you'd really want your sub doing the heavy lifting anyway. Now if you didn't have a sub, that's another story.
post #7973 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

Man, I hated that movie. It was too "easy" and "cliche" for me. Reminded me of 2012.

I partially agree. Easy and cliche, yes, but I didn't hate it because the special effects were so good. I felt it had a good surround mix, and sounded great. Kinda like a Michael Bay flick. Turn off your brain and enjoy the spectacle.

Relevant (and hilarious...wait till the end): http://youtu.be/REOjxvQPQNQ
Edited by freeride - 9/20/13 at 10:18am
post #7974 of 9474
I recall earlier in this thread people updating their firmware. I haven't updated since the 1080p/24 frame rate issue occurred and when I click to update it says I'm up to date. Is there newer firmware that you must manually download from a PC to a thumbdrive and then install?

If so what are the benefits of the new firmware?
post #7975 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I recall earlier in this thread people updating their firmware. I haven't updated since the 1080p/24 frame rate issue occurred and when I click to update it says I'm up to date. Is there newer firmware that you must manually download from a PC to a thumbdrive and then install?

If so what are the benefits of the new firmware?

New firmware usually means small fixes, nothing major. I've updated once since the 24fps issue. You must update the firmware using the website now and not directly through the AV.
post #7976 of 9474
There are at least two more updates, available by USB only. Read about them here, in Firmware Instructions: http://us.onkyo.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-NR818&class=Receiver&source=prodClass

I updated my firmware via USB last week, right after I plugged in the 818 for the first time. Had no issues with it. Worked perfectly.
post #7977 of 9474
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All the evidence I have seen shows the problem showed up at around 24 months of usage, which makes the scenario I describe perfectly reasonable. Guessing that some problems showed up way earlier is just that: a guess.
I am certain I can go back in the old threads and find early evidence of failure.
Some people had the board repair 2 and 3 times...
Edit:
I am not disagreeing with you for argument's sake...(I know it may seem that way)...I thank you for your efforts with Audyssey, and respect your knowledge and expertise. I have found much of your information extremely useful and reliable.
But after my experience with Onkyo, and all the denial on their part...and the fact that they actually ignored call after call, and email after email, (Some to department heads, and supervisors), until I got the BBB involved...I am a little soured on the CE industry as a whole. (I had a similar experience with Samsung)

 

Hey, no worries... we all have our views. As freeride says, it's pretty much all speculation anyway. Onkyo have said nothing officially about it AFAIK.

post #7978 of 9474
I am not sure if I have the 6/13/2013 FW update. Onkyo's site only lists the 8/28/13 update. My unit currently has 1120-8103-0101-0000, is this the 6/13 or a previous version? Thanks.
post #7979 of 9474
I recently picked up the 818, and I must say, I am fairly impressed with XT32. My theater has honestly never sounded better. My wife even noticed the bass was much tighter during movies:)

After reading up on Dynamic EQ, I was not sure that I would enjoy it or not, but I enjoy it while watching prime time shows.

I only have one problem that I have not solved, and that is with music. I am strictly a 2.0 music guy, so I use Pure Audio. What has me baffled is that the highs seem laid back using Pure Audio on the 818. I came from an 805, and it really shined in Pure Audio with my Monitor Audio GS10s. It is almost like there is a blanket over the tweeters. They are just not crisp. It is so hard to describe sound on a forum.

I have tried stereo with the Audysee music curve and DEQ off, and it is no better. I am really lost on what to try next.

Has anyone had a similar experience? It makes no sense due to no processing and Pure Audio should be no different amp to amp?
post #7980 of 9474
You'd have to connect up your old receiver to make sure you are not hearing things. Pure direct is no processing and should sound the same. As much as you think it sounds different my money is on it does not. But only way to tell is blind test with both.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion