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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 269

post #8041 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkreger View Post

I just got the tx-nr818, got it set up, and ran audyssey. I have a question on the listening modes for my PS3.
On my old unit, I always had my PS3 set on direct for True HD and DTS HD, because I was always told that for hd codecs, you want the raw sound stream without any processing. Is this correct? Also, on addition to direct, the 818 has the option for straight decode. What is the difference between direct and straight decode, and which should I use for blu ray movies?

 

Straight Decode will play the signal as is (DD, TrueHD, etc) along with Audyssey EQ, bass management etc.  Direct will play the signal minus any processing such as Audyssey, bass management, etc.  Use Straight.

post #8042 of 9503
Thanks. Also, should the preserve THX setting be on or off? Do you guys use Thx settings? What about Dynamic EQ? Should that be on?
post #8043 of 9503
DynamicEQ is what levels out the loud and soft parts. Just apply it to taste. Generally, the lower your listening level, the more you will want.

As to THX... I have been experimenting with all the audio settings and have not liked the THX settings. YMMV. There is no right answer. I'd like to know what the THX modes are SUPPOSED to do, though...
post #8044 of 9503
^^
That would be Dynamic Volume as Dynamic EQ boosts the bass/surround audio at volume levels below reference 0db.
post #8045 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post

DynamicEQ is what levels out the loud and soft parts. Just apply it to taste. Generally, the lower your listening level, the more you will want.

As to THX... I have been experimenting with all the audio settings and have not liked the THX settings. YMMV. There is no right answer. I'd like to know what the THX modes are SUPPOSED to do, though...
I never got on the with THX settings. I use Dynamic Volume a lot at night. You must have Dynamic EQ on as well though, but it works quite well.
post #8046 of 9503
^^
2012 and newer Denon AVRs no longer require Dyn EQ to be enabled when using Dyn Vol. I thought that was the case with the 818 as well. No?
post #8047 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
2012 and newer Denon AVRs no longer require Dyn EQ to be enabled when using Dyn Vol. I thought that was the case with the 818 as well. No?
With the 818, no, Dynamic EQ enables itself when you enable Dynamic Volume.
post #8048 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Since it only happens with the cable box when you turn it on, what happens after you change a channel?  Does the surround mode change?

I ask because I have Dishnetwork and the hopper and there is a HDMI handshake issue where when I power everything up the hopper defaults to 2- channel, changing the channel it locks onto DD.  If i power up the Hopper last, after the receiver and TV are up then I get DD right away.

So just trying to see if it is a similar HDMI handshake/timing issue.

Changing channels has no effect. Changing to channels that are broadcast in dolby digital to dolby stereo where the receiver is set to output dolby PLII when a cable stereo source is present does not change anything. Still in multi-channel stereo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Is CEC turned on for the TV , if so turn it off. Also is tv audio return enabled?

You might try turning the tv on, then the cable box, and.then the Onkyo.

CEC is in fact off. Also, ARC is not enabled.
post #8049 of 9503
You know, I'm getting really sick of this receiver. mad.gif

It was running 24p bug firmware, so today I updated to the most recent firmware that was out in August. Well, guess what? It introduced another problem. The multi-channel issue is still there. But now, when the receiver if off, there is no audio coming from the tv. There were no settings changed on the tv and I went back into the receiver to make sure nothing was changed from the update. Sure enough HDMI Through was set to "off". So, I changed that back to cable box.

Well, now with the 818 off, there is a picture on the tv but there is no audio. This was working prior to updating the firmware.

(Now before anyone tells me I shouldn't use the tv speakers, this set up is in a bedroom. There are times I do not want the receiver on while watching tv. For instance, when going to bed at night, I may have the tv on and set the timer to shut it off after a few minutes.)

The multi-channel issue was bad enough but an easy work around is to just shut the tv off then on again. But no audio being passed through, especially when it had been working fine?
post #8050 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by realjetavenger View Post

You know, I'm getting really sick of this receiver. mad.gif

It was running 24p bug firmware, so today I updated to the most recent firmware that was out in August. Well, guess what? It introduced another problem. The multi-channel issue is still there. But now, when the receiver if off, there is no audio coming from the tv. There were no settings changed on the tv and I went back into the receiver to make sure nothing was changed from the update. Sure enough HDMI Through was set to "off". So, I changed that back to cable box.

Well, now with the 818 off, there is a picture on the tv but there is no audio. This was working prior to updating the firmware.

(Now before anyone tells me I shouldn't use the tv speakers, this set up is in a bedroom. There are times I do not want the receiver on while watching tv. For instance, when going to bed at night, I may have the tv on and set the timer to shut it off after a few minutes.)

The multi-channel issue was bad enough but an easy work around is to just shut the tv off then on again. But no audio being passed through, especially when it had been working fine?

 

With now two odd audio issues I'm wondering if you have a bad unit or it just doesn't play well with your cable box HDMI.

post #8051 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

With now two odd audio issues I'm wondering if you have a bad unit or it just doesn't play well with your cable box HDMI.

I wondering the same thing. I'm going to try the ps3 as pass through and see if the audio comes out of the tv speakers...

update: Well how about that. Setting the ps3 for pass through and both audio and video are being output on the tv with the receiver off.
Wonder why the firmware update is causing this issue with the cable box then? And of course it can't be set back to the older firmware...
post #8052 of 9503
I think there is a setting for pass through features. The defaults may have changed in the new firmware. You might check the settings for this.
post #8053 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by realjetavenger View Post

... And of course it can't be set back to the older firmware...

Not true. I posted how to go back a while ago (I think).

You can do a force upgrade to whatever is on the USB stick. To do this press and hold the "NET" button on the front of the receiver, then press the ON/STANDBY button. You will then see "UPDATE" on the display of the receiver press enter. Then it will begin the update.

Never tried it, but Onkyo told me about it.
post #8054 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Not true. I posted how to go back a while ago (I think).

You can do a force upgrade to whatever is on the USB stick. To do this press and hold the "NET" button on the front of the receiver, then press the ON/STANDBY button. You will then see "UPDATE" on the display of the receiver press enter. Then it will begin the update.

Never tried it, but Onkyo told me about it.

Awesome, thanks. I did not know that (well, obviously tongue.gif) even though I think I've read this thread since the beginning.
It does work. My 818 is updating right now to the older firmware installed on the USB drive. So, well see if that solves my new problem. But at least it is confirmed that what Onkyo told you does work.
post #8055 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by realjetavenger View Post


I wondering the same thing. I'm going to try the ps3 as pass through and see if the audio comes out of the tv speakers...

update: Well how about that. Setting the ps3 for pass through and both audio and video are being output on the tv with the receiver off.
Wonder why the firmware update is causing this issue with the cable box then? And of course it can't be set back to the older firmware...

 

That makes sense to me, because anything other than through and it is doing some processing so the receiver would need to be on.

post #8056 of 9503
Ok, one more question on listening modes. Is PLIIx Movie and PLIIx THX Cinema essentially the same, and which is better to use?
post #8057 of 9503
Thx mode handles surrounds differently. With pliix only you will want set req off if you can. I prefer pliix only.
post #8058 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by realjetavenger View Post

Awesome, thanks. I did not know that (well, obviously tongue.gif) even though I think I've read this thread since the beginning.
It does work. My 818 is updating right now to the older firmware installed on the USB drive. So, well see if that solves my new problem. But at least it is confirmed that what Onkyo told you does work.

Reverted back to the 24p firmware and now I can hear audio from the tv speakers with the receiver off. So, that problem was introduced with the latest firmware.

I'll contact Onkyo about it and let them know of the components in the mix.
post #8059 of 9503
Sorry you are having all of those issues. I plugged my new 818 in and hooked up the HDMI and speaker cables and it is working like a champ. Pretty impressed so far but I don't have time to run the calibration. I will get to that tomorrow.
post #8060 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkreger View Post

Ok, one more question on listening modes. Is PLIIx Movie and PLIIx THX Cinema essentially the same, and which is better to use?

 

No - they are a little different.  

 

PLIIx THX Cinema incorporates THX's ReEq and Timbre Matching to the Dolby's PLIIx mode. Both can create 7.1 sound from 2 channel or 5.1 sources - THX Ultra2 Cinema only creates 7.1 from 5.1 sources (not that you asked that but the 818 is THX Select certified IIRC so it won’t have the THX Ultra2 Cinema mode anyway).

 

So when you engage PLIIx THX Cinema, you are adding ReEQ and Timbre Matching. For this reason, if you use this mode, you should switch Audyssey mode from Movie to Music, or you will be getting a 'double roll-off' in the treble. I don't know if the 818 automatically does this or if you need to do it manually, so check the menus via the Home button.

post #8061 of 9503
What is req, and what menu do I turn it off in?
post #8062 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkreger View Post

What is req, and what menu do I turn it off in?

 

Movie soundtracks are mixed for playback in large cinema venues. When played back at home, they can appear too bright or harsh - Re-EQ causes a gradual fall-off in treble to give a more suitable tonal balance for domestic playback. The Audyssey Movie curve does something similar, which is why you don't want both at the same time. You can either switch Audyssey to Music mode or switch Re-EQ off if the 818 allows it (I don't have an 818 so I am not sure if it does or not - some do, some don't - my 5509 does).

 

On my 5509 selecting the Home menu via the button on the remote and then selecting the 'audio' option allows the turning off of Re-EQ and/or the switching of Audyssey Movie and Music modes. I believe these settings made via the Home button are not 'sticky' and after the unit has been powered off, it will revert to its previous settings - but  don't take my word for that - check it.

 

You may just find it easier to ignore THX Cinema and stick with plain old PLIIx - that way you won't have to fiddle about in the menus. If you use Audyssey the Movie mode does the same thing, essentially, as Re-EQ.  THX Timbre Matching compensates for any tonal differences between your speakers, but Audyssey does that too, which kinda makes THX Cinema redundant.  Try them both and see which, if any, you prefer. THX does do something a little different with the Surrounds - seems to create a little more ambience, but that might just be my imagination.

post #8063 of 9503
I am told that THX de correlates the surrounds what ever that means. Film Mixer may be able to explain.
post #8064 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
That would be Dynamic Volume as Dynamic EQ boosts the bass/surround audio at volume levels below reference 0db.

You're correct, got them mixed up!

As to thx... I have never heard a thx mode that I liked as well as the non-thx version. YMMV.
post #8065 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

I am told that THX de correlates the surrounds what ever that means. Film Mixer may be able to explain.

 

The more the sounds are 'co-related' the more they will sound alike - ie they will gradually approach monaural. The more they are 'de-co-related' the more different they will sound which will increase the 'surround effect'. Playing with the amount of decorrleation will therefore change the ambient effect.

 

The decorrleation can take various guises, according to the design of the particular DSP - for example there could be adjustments in EQ, delay, frequency and so on, with different amounts in each surround channel. 

 

That is what I have always understood the term to mean. BICBW of course.

post #8066 of 9503
Thanks for the help. I'll leave it on pliix movie. I just don't know why THX gets hyped so much, and why you want a THX certified receiver if we don't use their listening modes.
post #8067 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkreger View Post

Thanks for the help. I'll leave it on pliix movie. I just don't know why THX gets hyped so much, and why you want a THX certified receiver if we don't use their listening modes.
It's just another selling point. I'm sure some people use it.
post #8068 of 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkreger View Post

Thanks for the help. I'll leave it on pliix movie. I just don't know why THX gets hyped so much, and why you want a THX certified receiver if we don't use their listening modes.

 

The main benefit of THX certification, as I see it, is that first off, you know it will be able to hit a certain SPL in a certain size of room (depending on the certification level) and second, you know that all THX-certified units have been designed to work correctly together. So, for example, in the case of a THX-certified AVR, used with THX-certified speakers and subs, you know that, in THX mode, the crossovers and slopes have been designed correctly throughout the chain.  If someone puts together a THX Ultra2 system they can be sure it will play to the required SPL and all the different bits will work nicely together. For those on AVS, they can achieve similar nirvana with a bit of effort, some learning and some help from others.

 

The THX DSPs might be useful for some people, or for those without Audyssey, but for those who do have Audyssey, most of the benefits are already available anyway, regardless of THX modes. All DSPs are preference anyway, so it does no harm to experiment with the THX nodes and settle on one that suits you, if any of them do. Personally, I tend to leave my system in the native codec plus Dolby PLIIz to drive my Height channels (occasionally using DTS Neo:X as an alternative).

post #8069 of 9503
Got an 818 on the way for a good deal. Be curious to see how the amp section compares to the Denons Ive been using, it seems the Onkyo's are generally underrated in their power claims, and this one weighs 13 more pounds than my Denon, which is pretty crazy.

Should be able to power these Klipsch speakers nicely smile.gif
post #8070 of 9503
Ok, so I set my 818 on straight decode for Dts hd and True HD codecs, and when I was watching a DTS HD movie today, the input was 5.1, but the output was 7.1. Does this mean that straight decode up converts the original hd stream to 7.1?
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