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Vizio M3D550KD - Page 12

post #331 of 687
Thanks much...losamigos
post #332 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

The set is not 240hz. It's only a simulated 240hz. That's what the "SPS" stands for. It's actually only 120hz. Or so that is my understanding, if I'm wrong i would be happy to be educated.

To reduce blurring, most 120Hz LCD displays use a system called MEMC (motion estimation and motion compensation) to slip in a new frame between each of the original frames. The end result is one extra frame for every true frame.

You'd think, then, that a 240Hz TV would just double up to achieve an even more blur-free picture. Alas, it's a little more complicated than that. The problem is there are actually two different types of 240Hz, including one that doesn't bill itself as true 240Hz but rather as a "240 effect." Here's a breakdown of the two versions and which companies employ them.

MEMC (motion estimation-motion compensation): Both Sony and Samsung 240Hz sets use MEMC to basically double the 120Hz process described above. However, instead of getting one extra frame for each "true" frame, you actually get three extra frames.

Scanning backlight (240 effect): LG, Toshiba, and Vizio use what's called "scanning backlight" technology. Such TVs use MEMC once to get to 120Hz, but instead of doubling the interpolation, a backlight flashes on and off very quickly to achieve what Toshiba calls a "240Hz effect." LG, for its part, fails to make that distinction and uses the 240Hz term without qualification to describe its scanning-backlight models. Vizio calls this SPS.
post #333 of 687
So PlayNice, what do you think of the assertion that Vizio uses LG panels to build their sets, and these panels are "seconds" that are sold to to Vizio at a sharply discounted price, allowing Vizio to charge less than LG does for their sets? Seems dubious that LG would allow VIzio to undercut them, but at the same time, what do you do with LCD panels that fail quality control testing in some minor way? Destroy them?
post #334 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

So PlayNice, what do you think of the assertion that Vizio uses LG panels to build their sets, and these panels are "seconds" that are sold to to Vizio at a sharply discounted price, allowing Vizio to charge less than LG does for their sets? Seems dubious that LG would allow VIzio to undercut them, but at the same time, what do you do with LCD panels that fail quality control testing in some minor way? Destroy them?

Vizio does in fact use LG tech in there sets. The passive 3D panel is LG's FPR 3D Panel. As for their non 3D sets I do not know. Now are they the so called "seconds" I do not think so. Many businesses have a relationship with each other for the better of the industry. Think Apple and Samsung, yes they had a heated court battle but Apple continues to use Samsung parts inside of the iOS devices. Making both parties shar in the profits. The "panel" is a small portion of the picture quality. The chipset inside of the TV has more to do with that.

So all this talk that Vizio is getting the rejects or scraps is false. No company would settle for such in my opinion.
post #335 of 687
So how is it that Vizio are able to sell their TV's for so many hundreds of dollars less than LG charges for essentially the same set?
post #336 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

So how is it that Vizio are able to sell their TV's for so many hundreds of dollars less than LG charges for essentially the same set?

Well first thing first, they are not the same set, a set is the whole completed product. If they were the same set they would have the same picture quality, but they do not. This round the Vizio M3D550KD vs LG 55LM7600 which are almost equal speech wise, the Vizio comes out on top.

So what makes the cost so different. R&D I would say or something in that field.

The LG has 2D to 3D conversion the Vizio does not.
The LG bezel looks fantastic!
The LG also has a motion remote kind of like the Wii.
The LG does 20 point color correction (that is over kill 10 point will do) Vizio has 2 point

See they spent their money different than Vizio which I would imagine put more time and money into the picture quality than anything else.

Vizio's colors are more accurate, blacks are more dark, and its 2 point color correction out performs the 20 point color correction.

This is all just an educated guess but I would almost put money on it, wait I did- on the Vizio!
post #337 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

Well first thing first, they are not the same set, a set is the whole completed product. If they were the same set they would have the same picture quality, but they do not. This round the Vizio M3D550KD vs LG 55LM7600 which are almost equal speech wise, the Vizio comes out on top.
So what makes the cost so different. R&D I would say or something in that field.
The LG has 2D to 3D conversion the Vizio does not.
The LG bezel looks fantastic!
The LG also has a motion remote kind of like the Wii.
The LG does 20 point color correction (that is over kill 10 point will do) Vizio has 2 point
See they spent their money different than Vizio which I would imagine put more time and money into the picture quality than anything else.
Vizio's colors are more accurate, blacks are more dark, and its 2 point color correction out performs the 20 point color correction.
This is all just an educated guess but I would almost put money on it, wait I did- on the Vizio!

LG build quality is much higher. When we picked up the vizio to mount it on the wall it literally flexed and bowed until we got it vertical. Looking at the LG shows a nice metal backplate that seems much more robust than the plastic of the vizio.
post #338 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepaiii View Post

LG build quality is much higher. When we picked up the vizio to mount it on the wall it literally flexed and bowed until we got it vertical. Looking at the LG shows a nice metal backplate that seems much more robust than the plastic of the vizio.

Exactly my point better bezel on the LG better picture on the Vizio out of these two.
post #339 of 687
So I went to my local Sam's and they had 2 m3d550kd on the shelf, I picked one up and so far I'm really happy with it.
I have one question though, I tried to setup the image setting the same way as found on this forum but for some weird reasons I cannot change the backlight setting, I press down on the remote, it jumps from Picture Mode to Brightness, skipping the Backlight line, is this normal? am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for your help.
post #340 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregK30 View Post

So I went to my local Sam's and they had 2 m3d550kd on the shelf, I picked one up and so far I'm really happy with it.
I have one question though, I tried to setup the image setting the same way as found on this forum but for some weird reasons I cannot change the backlight setting, I press down on the remote, it jumps from Picture Mode to Brightness, skipping the Backlight line, is this normal? am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for your help.

You need to turn the ambient light sensor off in the advanced menu to manually change the backlight.
post #341 of 687
cool thanks, it worked!
post #342 of 687
Pretty awesome picture once you get the settings dialed in, eh? I turned Smooth Motion back on, and it gives a pretty impressive illusion of 3D. Heck, even SD programming looks great on this set. Most impressive so far is the way HD animation like The Simpsons and those awful kid's shows on PBS look.
post #343 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

Pretty awesome picture once you get the settings dialed in, eh? I turned Smooth Motion back on, and it gives a pretty impressive illusion of 3D. Heck, even SD programming looks great on this set. Most impressive so far is the way HD animation like The Simpsons and those awful kid's shows on PBS look.

Funny I turned smooth motion back on too, what setting are you using for smooth motion?
post #344 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

Pretty awesome picture once you get the settings dialed in, eh? I turned Smooth Motion back on, and it gives a pretty impressive illusion of 3D. Heck, even SD programming looks great on this set. Most impressive so far is the way HD animation like The Simpsons and those awful kid's shows on PBS look.


If you have the Alien Anthology box set or the movie Alien on blu-ray watch the opening scene when the camera is under the ship as it flys by and the when inside the ship as the camera pans around the dark empty ship. While watching these scenes switch back and forth between smooth motion off and on it will leave your mouth watering.
post #345 of 687
Does anyone know how to use the HDMI (ARC) on this set?
post #346 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

Funny I turned smooth motion back on too, what setting are you using for smooth motion?

I have it on "high". Have not noticed any artifacting yet, even during football games. Illusion of depth is much improved.

However, I've noticed that your settings do "crush" blacks a bit, assuming that's the correct term for what happens when someone, for example, has a black suit on, and you can't see any detail in it, just an area of solid black. I love the settings otherwise.

Any suggestions for tweaking this? Would I use the backlight setting, contrast, brightness, or a combination of the three?
post #347 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

I have it on "high". Have not noticed any artifacting yet, even during football games. Illusion of depth is much improved.
However, I've noticed that your settings do "crush" blacks a bit, assuming that's the correct term for what happens when someone, for example, has a black suit on, and you can't see any detail in it, just an area of solid black. I love the settings otherwise.
Any suggestions for tweaking this? Would I use the backlight setting, contrast, brightness, or a combination of the three?

Which one of my settings crush the blacks? Your black detail is controlled by brightness, however once you adjust the brightness your contrast will be out of whack. What is the source material you are viewing that has this issue. Also if you are using a PS3 for a blu-ray player it will crush your blacks and block out your whites, this is a setting on the PS3 and since it is on the PS3 I would imagine it being on many Sony players as well.

I will look at my settings tonight as I still am tinkering looking for the best settings I can make.

I am using low smooth motion, are you using any Real Cinema Modes with the Smooth Motion setting?
post #348 of 687
No Real Cinema Modes used, I only turned Smooth Motion on. The source material is mostly 1080i and 720p over the air broadcasts. These OTA broadcasts vary tremendously in picture quality and various settings such as saturation, brightness, and contrast. So I imagine that about all you can do is keep your settings at a happy medium and be prepared for a certain amount of variation.

Blu Ray discs all look pretty good so far, and much more consistent, with only an occasional black being crushed.
post #349 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by losamigos View Post

No Real Cinema Modes used, I only turned Smooth Motion on. The source material is mostly 1080i and 720p over the air broadcasts. These OTA broadcasts vary tremendously in picture quality and various settings such as saturation, brightness, and contrast. So I imagine that about all you can do is keep your settings at a happy medium and be prepared for a certain amount of variation.
Blu Ray discs all look pretty good so far, and much more consistent, with only an occasional black being crushed.

Yeah I can only comment on blu-ray quality, I use my Plex media server via Mac Mini 2011 and I downloaded hundreds of HD movies (legally) and the quality still pales to Blu Ray. The detail is in the numbers literally 50GB of data disk for a movie vs 4.5 GB download file. The same can be said about OTA which has to limits the size of the file to transmit.

If you want to test out your blacks on your TV pop in Alien/Aliens/Prometheus, Blade Runner (Final Cut) or 2001 Space Odyssey the blu ray. Not a Sci Fi fan then pop in Sin City. These are my favorite disk to black test my system.
post #350 of 687
Ok guys, I like this TV as I just got it from sams club.. and i'm coming from a panasonic vt30. The picture quality is awesome.. however the input and software is horrible!! I don't even know how to update to the latest firmware. I have two inputs.. HDMI 1 and HDMI 3 setup.

HDMI 1 has tv and this isn't the problem.. its
HDMI 3 which has my xbox setup.. once I changed it to game settings.. It disappears.. I can't change it again! Whats up with that! I want to change it to custom mode, but the option isn't even there.. whats up with that! So frustrating!

The only downside to this tv is that above, and the horrible reflective screen.. man its like a mirror!
post #351 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanman View Post

Ok guys, I like this TV as I just got it from sams club.. and i'm coming from a panasonic vt30. The picture quality is awesome.. however the input and software is horrible!! I don't even know how to update to the latest firmware. I have two inputs.. HDMI 1 and HDMI 3 setup.
HDMI 1 has tv and this isn't the problem.. its
HDMI 3 which has my xbox setup.. once I changed it to game settings.. It disappears.. I can't change it again! Whats up with that! I want to change it to custom mode, but the option isn't even there.. whats up with that! So frustrating!
The only downside to this tv is that above, and the horrible reflective screen.. man its like a mirror!

I have not found a manual way to update the firmware however it will do I automatically when needed.

Try resetting your TV to fix your issue I have not plugged anything into any other HDMI ports as my receiver has 8 HDMI inputs so I only use HDMI 1 on the TV. I forgot how to reset the set so if anyone can help thanks.
post #352 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanman View Post

Ok guys, I like this TV as I just got it from sams club.. and i'm coming from a panasonic vt30. The picture quality is awesome.. however the input and software is horrible!! I don't even know how to update to the latest firmware. I have two inputs.. HDMI 1 and HDMI 3 setup.
HDMI 1 has tv and this isn't the problem.. its
HDMI 3 which has my xbox setup.. once I changed it to game settings.. It disappears.. I can't change it again! Whats up with that! I want to change it to custom mode, but the option isn't even there.. whats up with that! So frustrating!
The only downside to this tv is that above, and the horrible reflective screen.. man its like a mirror!

Quick question why not HDMi 1 and HDMI 2? Why did you go to HDMI 3?
post #353 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

I have not found a manual way to update the firmware however it will do I automatically when needed.
Try resetting your TV to fix your issue I have not plugged anything into any other HDMI ports as my receiver has 8 HDMI inputs so I only use HDMI 1 on the TV. I forgot how to reset the set so if anyone can help thanks.

Go to Menu / Help / and either "Reset TV Settings" or "Clear Memory (Factory Default)" depending if you want EVERYTHING cleared or not.
post #354 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

Which one of my settings crush the blacks?

I have owned this set for a month or so now and am enjoying it very much, albeit I do see some blooming in the corners and edges in dark scenes, but if I don't focus on it, I don't notice it. smile.gif I have tweaked the settings to those I found earlier in this thread. Playnice, did you post your settings?
post #355 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by am_dew View Post

I have owned this set for a month or so now and am enjoying it very much, albeit I do see some blooming in the corners and edges in dark scenes, but if I don't focus on it, I don't notice it. smile.gif I have tweaked the settings to those I found earlier in this thread. Playnice, did you post your settings?

I did indeed post my settings one with AVS HD 709 an the other is with Spears and Munsil on page 9 on this forum.
post #356 of 687
Quote:
After using AVS HD 709 HDMV these are my settings and they look good in normal viewing lighting, give them a go.


---Picture settings menu---
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 40
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 44
Color: 53
Tint: 1
Sharpness: 7

---Size & Position submenu---
[no change]

---Color Temperature submenu---
Colour temperature: Custom
Red Gain: 48
Green Gain: 49
Blue gain: 50
Red offset: 49
Green offset: 48
Blue offset: 50

--Advanced Picture submenu---
Smooth motion effect: Low (Low only for 24Hz content, off for 60Hz)
Real Cinema Mode: Off
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Color Enhancement: Off
Adaptive Luma: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Smart Dimming: On
Ambient Light sensor: Off
Edited by PlayNice - 10/30/12 at 1:52pm
post #357 of 687
Losamigos which settings do you prefer Spears and Mundil or AVS HD 709 I also have DVE settings I have done would you like me to post those as well?
post #358 of 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

I did indeed post my settings one with AVS HD 709 an the other is with Spears and Munsil on page 9 on this forum.

Thanks -- I will check them out.
post #359 of 687
I like the AVS HD 709 the best so far (but with Smooth Motion on) but I keep all three loaded in memory, one saved as "Custom" one as "Standard" and one as "Movie". Then, if some programming doesn't look right to me, I can scroll through the three of them until I find the one where the picture looks the best.
post #360 of 687
Okay figured out the xbox 360 problems, I had to get the 360 to not sense the tv automatically.. it works fine now. Phew.. now to get my dish hopper working right.. I hate HDMI issues.
But so far this is a very good tv for this price. Just wish, again it wasn't so reflective!
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