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Hauppauge 2250 tuner w/InfiniTV4... tuner priority?

post #1 of 18
5/28/12 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
My new InfiniTV4 PCIe should be here tomorrow and I have a question about tuner behavior with both Hauppauge PCIe 2250 2 tuner OTA/ClearQAM and the Ceton installed at the same time.

When I record something on, say, NBC, how does WMC7 decide which card to use? I would imagine it would default to the OTA/ClearQAM first, but is there a setting in WMC? Also, is there a way to see what tuner WMC is using during recording events (from within WMC, preferably).
Thank ya
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post #2 of 18
5/29/12 at 4:12am
If you've got the Hauppauge connected to an antenna and the Ceton connected to digital cable then the channel assignments will be different for NBC from the two different feeds. When you set up the recording in WMC you can specify which channel you want to record from and it will record using the appropriate tuner for that channel (i.e., OTA channel will use the 2250 and cable channel will use the Ceton).
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post #3 of 18
5/29/12 at 4:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

If you've got the Hauppauge connected to an antenna and the Ceton connected to digital cable then the channel assignments will be different for NBC from the two different feeds. When you set up the recording in WMC you can specify which channel you want to record from and it will record using the appropriate tuner for that channel (i.e., OTA channel will use the 2250 and cable channel will use the Ceton).

Ah I think I get it now... so there will be TWO NBCs on the guide. That makes since. I was thinking that WMC would combine NBCs in to one guide entry.

Thanks!
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post #4 of 18
5/29/12 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

If you've got the Hauppauge connected to an antenna and the Ceton connected to digital cable then the channel assignments will be different for NBC from the two different feeds. When you set up the recording in WMC you can specify which channel you want to record from and it will record using the appropriate tuner for that channel (i.e., OTA channel will use the 2250 and cable channel will use the Ceton).

Quote:
Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

Ah I think I get it now... so there will be TWO NBCs on the guide. That makes since. I was thinking that WMC would combine NBCs in to one guide entry.

Thanks!

Not necessarily. I use a Hauppauge 2250, Avermedia Duet, and a Ceton with Verizon FIOS and my guide displays two NBCs but one of them is just the OTA NBCs (4 tuners) and the other one contains BOTH OTA and the FIOS feed (8 tuners). I just deleted the one that contained only the OTA signals and I now have just the one NBC feed accessible with 8 tuners. WMC defaulted to giving the Hauppauge and the Duet priority over the Ceton.

That applied to all of my networked stations.

Now, with the secondary channels, like 13.2 (13.1 is my local Fox broadcast); the one's that typically contain the 24/7 weather broadcasts, they were their own guide entry. But I never watch them, so I deleted those from the guide.
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post #5 of 18
5/29/12 at 8:00am
did u uncheck them from WMC or did u actually delete it from WMC or guidetool?
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post #6 of 18
5/29/12 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalex View Post

did u uncheck them from WMC or did u actually delete it from WMC or guidetool?

I just unchecked them so they do not display in the guide. Is the some other method of "deleting" them?
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post #7 of 18
5/29/12 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post

Not necessarily. I use a Hauppauge 2250, Avermedia Duet, and a Ceton with Verizon FIOS and my guide displays two NBCs but one of them is just the OTA NBCs (4 tuners) and the other one contains BOTH OTA and the FIOS feed (8 tuners). I just deleted the one that contained only the OTA signals and I now have just the one NBC feed accessible with 8 tuners. WMC defaulted to giving the Hauppauge and the Duet priority over the Ceton.

That applied to all of my networked stations.

Now, with the secondary channels, like 13.2 (13.1 is my local Fox broadcast); the one's that typically contain the 24/7 weather broadcasts, they were their own guide entry. But I never watch them, so I deleted those from the guide.

When you run the TV signal setup in WMC it discovers all of the tuners you have and then downloads the guide data based on your zip code for OTA and whatever provider you specified for digital cable, as applicable. You will have ATSC and both encrypted and unencrypted QAM channels listed if you're using both OTA and digital cable tuners. When you set up a recording you need to specify which channel you're like to record from or just let WMC pick one (i.e., any channel). You can designate the tuner priority by specifying one channel to record from and WMC will select the tuner that is required to tune that particular channel. If you don't specify a channel then WMC will use whatever tuner is available and record channels at random.
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post #8 of 18
5/30/12 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

When you run the TV signal setup in WMC it discovers all of the tuners you have and then downloads the guide data based on your zip code for OTA and whatever provider you specified for digital cable, as applicable. You will have ATSC and both encrypted and unencrypted QAM channels listed if you're using both OTA and digital cable tuners. When you set up a recording you need to specify which channel you're like to record from or just let WMC pick one (i.e., any channel). You can designate the tuner priority by specifying one channel to record from and WMC will select the tuner that is required to tune that particular channel. If you don't specify a channel then WMC will use whatever tuner is available and record channels at random.

I'm not sure I understand your post.

Just to be clear, I am not the OP and do not have any issues with my recordings.

He asked how Windows would prioritize tuners and you said he would have two listings for the channels based on his tuners. One listing would be for the OTA and the other for the cable feed.

I was clarifying that the statement about having two listings is not necessarily true.

My WMC Guide sources the ClearQAM Cable stations and the OTA stations on the same channel. It also displays the OTA stations on a separate channel. On the channel that shows both of them, I have 8 tuners available, 2 from Hauppauge 2250, 2 from AverMedia Duet, and 4 from Ceton. On the channel that shows just the OTA sources, I have 4 tuners available from the Duet and 2250.

In my setup, I removed the channels that were not available using the Ceton as those same channels were available on a different number.





For example:
Channel 13.1 is my local Fox broadcast picked up on the Antenna. On FiOS, that is channel 1013. In my WMC Guide, channel 13.1 can be sourced from the Hauppauge 2250 or the AverMedia Duet but at the same time, channel 1013 can be sourced from the Hauppauge 2250, AverMedia Duet, and the Ceton. Therefore I do not need to use channel 13.1 for anything. The same exact feed is available on 1013.

The statement about different numbers is not always true. The Hauppauge and Duet are sourced from an antenna and the Ceton is from my fios cable but they share channel number assignments.
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post #9 of 18
5/30/12 at 11:46am
i am new here , i just got my hauppauge wintv 2650 digital tuner and cox gave me sta 1520 card adapt which it usually work with tivos devices. i have no place to plug the usb cord in the tuner since there is only one spot and it is used to connect to pc, how do i go about to connect it to the tuner, the Cox tech came and said he has never seen a tuner like mine yet and didnot know what to do.
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post #10 of 18
5/30/12 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
OP here.

Thanks for all the helpful input. Usually, it wouldn't matter which tuner it used, but our house is on the very edge of several OTA stations. When the OTA comes in (non blocky), it looks great... better then cable. I would like to put lower priority shows on the OTA (afternoon news, etc) and higher priority (sports, prime time TV, etc) on the ceton.
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post #11 of 18
5/30/12 at 1:37pm
I have the same cards hooked up. If you go to the guide and arrow over to the left you can get on the channel number. Click that and you will get some settings. Dig in there a bit and you will find tuner priority for that specific channel. I have mine set to use the 2250 if its available and then the ceton second. My though is that keeps the ceton free to record cable channels if needed.
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post #12 of 18
5/31/12 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post

I'm not sure I understand your post.

OK, allow me to clarify. If your PC has both ATSC (OTA) and digital cable (cablecard) tuners, WMC will download guide data for both sources based on the zip code you provided (ATSC) and the cable provider you selected (digital cable). You don't get two different sets of channel listings but a composite list of all channels you can receive. In reality, WMC downloads a lot of ATSC channels that are technically receivable based on your location, but chances are you really can't get all of them as you may be on the fringes of good reception if not altogether out of range.

As you indicated, for your Fox channel 13 it will show up in the listing as both 13.1 and 1013 for the HD channels. What you didn't mention was that there is likely a third channel in the list for your Fox station and that is channel 13. This is the standard definition version (i.e., analog) that gets transmitted for those that subscribe only to basic service but is also included in all other plans as well.

When you set up a recording in WMC you can specify the exact channel you want to record from. If you specify 13.1 it will only use the Hauppauge tuner since it's an ATSC channel. If you specify 1013 it will only use the cablecard tuner as it's an encrypted FIOS channel. If you specify channel 13 it will also use the cablecard tuner because it's transmitted by your cable provider. In reality it's a standard definition analog channel converted to digital so it can be transmitted via fiber optic and is therefore tunable using the cablecard tuner.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe you can tell WMC to record from any channel without being specific about which one to use, although you may need to indicate whether you want to record HD or SD only, but it's possible you could tell it to record from whatever's available. If you choose HD then it will use the first available tuner for recording and it can be from either ATSC or digital cable as long as the signal meets your indicated criteria. If you choose SD then it will choose the SD channel on FIOS (channel 13) or possibly one of the ATSC sideband channels (i.e. 13.2, 13.3, etc.) if it's airing the same show as the HD channel (13.1) and will therefore use the ATSC tuner. I'm on FIOS and my local sideband channels also show up in the 400-range of channels for another channel selection possibility.
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post #13 of 18
5/31/12 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by playoffs giek View Post

i am new here , i just got my hauppauge wintv 2650 digital tuner and cox gave me sta 1520 card adapt which it usually work with tivos devices. i have no place to plug the usb cord in the tuner since there is only one spot and it is used to connect to pc, how do i go about to connect it to the tuner, the Cox tech came and said he has never seen a tuner like mine yet and didnot know what to do.

Somewhere on these boards someone posted a diagram of how the 2650 and tuning adapters connect but I can't find it now. Luckily I have Comcast so I don't need the tuning adapter. However plenty of people on this site have external cablecard tuners and tuning adapters so just search this whole site and you can probably track down the info. Also don't let that same technician step foot in your house, he is clueless.
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post #14 of 18
5/31/12 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

OK, allow me to clarify. If your PC has both ATSC (OTA) and digital cable (cablecard) tuners, WMC will download guide data for both sources based on the zip code you provided (ATSC) and the cable provider you selected (digital cable). You don't get two different sets of channel listings but a composite list of all channels you can receive. In reality, WMC downloads a lot of ATSC channels that are technically receivable based on your location, but chances are you really can't get all of them as you may be on the fringes of good reception if not altogether out of range.

As you indicated, for your Fox channel 13 it will show up in the listing as both 13.1 and 1013 for the HD channels. What you didn't mention was that there is likely a third channel in the list for your Fox station and that is channel 13. This is the standard definition version (i.e., analog) that gets transmitted for those that subscribe only to basic service but is also included in all other plans as well.

When you set up a recording in WMC you can specify the exact channel you want to record from. If you specify 13.1 it will only use the Hauppauge tuner since it's an ATSC channel. If you specify 1013 it will only use the cablecard tuner as it's an encrypted FIOS channel. If you specify channel 13 it will also use the cablecard tuner because it's transmitted by your cable provider. In reality it's a standard definition analog channel converted to digital so it can be transmitted via fiber optic and is therefore tunable using the cablecard tuner.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe you can tell WMC to record from any channel without being specific about which one to use, although you may need to indicate whether you want to record HD or SD only, but it's possible you could tell it to record from whatever's available. If you choose HD then it will use the first available tuner for recording and it can be from either ATSC or digital cable as long as the signal meets your indicated criteria. If you choose SD then it will choose the SD channel on FIOS (channel 13) or possibly one of the ATSC sideband channels (i.e. 13.2, 13.3, etc.) if it's airing the same show as the HD channel (13.1) and will therefore use the ATSC tuner. I'm on FIOS and my local sideband channels also show up in the 400-range of channels for another channel selection possibility.

I purposefully left out the SD channel 13 feed. I removed all of the SD channels that I also receive in HD. I see no point in them. Just clutters up the guide and made my example even more complex. I also removed all of the sideband channels from the ATSC and Cable feeds, I never watch them either.

In your first post, I thought you were saying that there will be different channel assignments. It's a half truth.

If I tell WMC to tune to 1013, it uses my ATSC tuners first. Yes, it's not truly tuning to 1013, it's tuning to 13.1 however, WMC has assigned 13.1 to 1013. In effect, only one channel listing containing both ATSC and Fios.

I just set my recordings as HD Preferred, Any channel. Tuner priorities are independent of HD vs SD and can be changed on a channel by channel basis (mine are all ATSC if available, then Ceton). This setup allows me to record any show/keyword I want, WMC will try to record on a ATSC tuner if possible (all HD), then try Ceton HD channels, then finally try SD Ceton channels.





For the OP, you may have to change the priority of the tuners on every station that has poor reception. My WMC TV setup gave priority automatically to the ATSC tuners. One possibility for your situation is to remove ATSC source from the channels that the ATSC tuners do not receive reliably, or just set the Ceton to priority on those channels only. In general you want the ATSC tuners to have priority to save the Ceton tuners for the cable channels.

That is one of the great things about WMC. You can have different tuner priorities for every channel.
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post #15 of 18
5/31/12 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post

That is one of the great things about WMC. You can have different tuner priorities for every channel.

Yes, this is good for fine tuning. But it's cumbersome, if you want to change this for all your channels. Though I think that there's a workaround. If you want to change/set the priority for all channels, then it's best to setup each tuner individually (instead of all at the same time). The 1st set-up tuner takes priority. While this may take a couple of setup iterations you only need to do it once. Afterwards you can still fine tune.
And as mentioned above you can combine or split channels as you like. I combined all channels that are available OTA using the OTA numbering (4.1, 5.1) and the priority is set to 1. OTA, 2. QAM, 3. Cablecard.
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post #16 of 18
5/31/12 at 10:34am
I agree completely. Setting up tuner priorities for each channel is overkill and won't always give you the best quality available. I always record from ATSC if it's a local channel and digital cable if it's only available on FIOS. ATSC always provides a better image than any cable provider, including FIOS. By specifying a channel I'm always assured that the recording will be the best quality available for the show. I've got 6 ATSC tuners and 7 digital cable tuners configured for my HTPC so there's no issue with tuner availability.

I also don't use any of the SD channels or sub-channels except on rare occasions, but since they do appear in the guide following initial setup I felt they were pertinent to the discussion. I don't use the guide all that often since I've got most of my recordings set for season passes. If there's a special airing of a program or a new upcoming series I'll use the search function to find it rather than plow through the guide. When I find the show I want I browse the list of alternate showings to pick the channel I want to record from and then make any adjustments to the record settings for the show or the series, as applicable. I used to set up a favorites list but found that I rarely needed it since I tend to limit my viewing and recording to about a dozen or so channels.
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post #17 of 18
5/31/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I agree completely. Setting up tuner priorities for each channel is overkill and won't always give you the best quality available. I always record from ATSC if it's a local channel and digital cable if it's only available on FIOS. ATSC always provides a better image than any cable provider, including FIOS. By specifying a channel I'm always assured that the recording will be the best quality available for the show. I've got 6 ATSC tuners and 7 digital cable tuners configured for my HTPC so there's no issue with tuner availability.

I also don't use any of the SD channels or sub-channels except on rare occasions, but since they do appear in the guide following initial setup I felt they were pertinent to the discussion. I don't use the guide all that often since I've got most of my recordings set for season passes. If there's a special airing of a program or a new upcoming series I'll use the search function to find it rather than plow through the guide. When I find the show I want I browse the list of alternate showings to pick the channel I want to record from and then make any adjustments to the record settings for the show or the series, as applicable. I used to set up a favorites list but found that I rarely needed it since I tend to limit my viewing and recording to about a dozen or so channels.

I agree it is tedious. It is only necessary if he wants to filter out the channels that he has poor signal on. Something his post indicated he is worried about on some broadcast stations.
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post #18 of 18
6/1/12 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post

I agree it is tedious. It is only necessary if he wants to filter out the channels that he has poor signal on. Something his post indicated he is worried about on some broadcast stations.

I just ferret out the channels with poor signal quality and remove them from the channel listing. If you deny access to them then there's no need to prioritize tuners for each channel.

I live between Baltimore and Washington DC. I've got two antennas on my roof aimed in opposite directions. The broadcast towers for the main Baltimore stations are all located in the same general area (three broadcast from the same tower and a 4th is within spitting distance of the other tower) whereas the Washington stations are a bit more scattered. Since my antennas are fixed, I have to aim the antenna for the best coverage, but I still end up losing one or two channels since the tower is located on the fringe of the antenna's reception area (they're directional). The channel still shows up in my guide so I have to delete it to prevent WMC from trying to use it. Fortunately, I have all of the major networks with affiliates in each city so I just use the one from Baltimore for the missing DC channel. I also have the option to use the missing OTA DC channel from FIOS as they carry all locals from each market.
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