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Recommended filler sub(s) to work with IB? - Page 2

post #31 of 52
^^^^^ yup, what he said too nicely put DC
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

....I'm going to try two or three things tomorrow afternoon. One, I'm going to place 3" fg panels in front of my superchunks and see what that yields for results as far as freq response and decay time goes in the LF region. Another thing I'm going to try for the bass response is to take 6' wide pieces of R19 fluffy insulation and stack them up to the height of the bottom of my surround speakers (which is roughly the height of the backs of my seats) and see if that helps with the LF absorbtion. As far as membrane absorbers, I'll see what I can do for testing, even though it might be tough to suspend the wood panel and fg at the same time, maybe I'll just stand the fg against the wall and then stand different thickness material (cardboard, plywood etc) in front of the fg and just see what that looks like just to give me an idea if it works for my room....




Did you ever get the chance to experiment like you mentioned above ????????
post #33 of 52
Thread Starter 
All that has been done so far is add 3" panels in front of my bass traps and that helped a little. The only other thing I did was swap the wiring on the subs so that the middle two IB's were hooked up rather than the outer two and that helped a bit as well. I will keep this updated and if anyone has any considerations for my above methods of testing or even further testing, I'll be more than happy to take advice
post #34 of 52
Thread Starter 
Man, I need to start subscribing to threads, especially my own :P

I'm back on the theater wagon now, took a little time off to have my speaker x/o boards looked over and what not, also started working on another vehicle project.

So, I'm almost ready to do more measuring and work on this bass issue. Should I try a higher output 15" sealed woofer or rear wall treatment?

FOH, I have gone through Ethans papers and the panel design is a bit confusing. Not sure how to mount the wood panel while being spaced away from the fiberglass, how thick the FG needs to be, how to space the FG away from the wall and that distance. Do you think that the proper rear wall treatment could resolve most of my issues? It'll be cheaper than filler subs but more complicated.
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

Should I try a higher output 15" sealed woofer or rear wall treatment?

I don't know, but in my opinion, you could always utilize proper rear wall treatment. That said, I bought a couple filler subs to augment my IB, and mitigate acoustic response issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

FOH, I have gone through Ethans papers and the panel design is a bit confusing. Not sure how to mount the wood panel while being spaced away from the fiberglass, how thick the FG needs to be, how to space the FG away from the wall and that distance. Do you think that the proper rear wall treatment could resolve most of my issues? It'll be cheaper than filler subs but more complicated.

How much space do you have to dedicate to this rear wall approach?

Be mindful, Ethan takes questions such as these on his Musicplayer forum, also, the GearSlutz group would be salivating to help you,...superb stuff there.
post #36 of 52
Thread Starter 
I don't really have a lot of space, especially with the rear speakers. I feel like I don't have nearly enough real estate for the treatment to be effective anyway. Am I wrong? It would be SO much simpler to add filler subs, but don't want to waste the money if I'm not going to get more pleasing results than what I'm getting with the table tuba. On that hand, one of the fellas recommended Dayton's 15" sub (500w RMS) with a Dayton 240 watt RMS plate amp, is this amp not sufficient? Any knowledge on the difference between the HF and the HO woofers?

About posting on the other forums, I feel like too much of a "noob" to post advanced acoustical treatment questions like that, am I wrong again?

EDIT: What fillers subs did you buy?
post #37 of 52
I wouldn't hesitate one bit regarding possessing a novice status, I've always viewed them as quite welcoming.
post #38 of 52
Thread Starter 
Ok, FOH, I'll give it a shot tongue.gif

What are your thoughts on using a low power plate amp for a higher RMS driver? What filler subs did you pickup to compliment your IB?
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

All that has been done so far is add 3" panels in front of my bass traps and that helped a little. The only other thing I did was swap the wiring on the subs so that the middle two IB's were hooked up rather than the outer two and that helped a bit as well. I will keep this updated and if anyone has any considerations for my above methods of testing or even further testing, I'll be more than happy to take advice

What did you change in the wiring exactly?
post #40 of 52
Thread Starter 
In case you missed it, earlier I unhooked two of my IB's (the inner ones) so I could use the other channel on my EP4000 to power a secondary subwoofer. In this case, it was my living room table tuba and I placed it in the back of the room. That seemed to help my graphs quite a bit but then I tried another test. I plugged the two inner IB's back in and disconnected the outer ones, and a subtle change was seen but nothing drastic.

That's all that was changed for wiring, sorry, I guess my wording can be a bit confusing sometimes tongue.gif
post #41 of 52
Are some of the drivers not receiving a signal then? If so, they are operating as passive radiators, which is bad. You should wire all the drivers as a single load on one channel while experimenting.
post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
Is it still a passive radiator system when the there is no "box"? If anything, I was told that the unused subs are acting as bass traps. That experiment is over anyway.

To be honest, I actually didn't know that I could wire 4 subs to one channel and keep it at an acceptable resistance. Now that I learned that, would I be able to wire them all to one channel safely as long as the resistance it not too low or too high? With my subs being SVC 2ohm, according to this I can wire them all in a way to keep a 2ohm load on my amp, If that's the case, I can then use the extra channel to power 1 or 2 subs for the back of the room, maybe?
post #43 of 52
Four 2 ohm SVC drivers can be wired for an 8 or 2 ohm load (series/series or series/parallel). Run as pairs they are either 1 or 4 ohm loads (parallel or series).

If all of the drivers share the same backwave area then disconnecting 2 turns those into passive radiators. The 2 active drivers do their thing, the 2 unwired drivers react passively.

Better to run the IB with it's own dedicated amp and use another amp for the "filler subs". Controlling the phase of the filler subs is key to making them useful (or detrimental). You may need to revisit your bass trap setup or consider the hemholtz resonator to target specific frequency problems. Did you try just eq'ing the IB?
post #44 of 52
Thread Starter 
Since phase seems to be very important when utilizing multiple subs, mainly when they are in opposite ends of the room, I take it that it's mandatory that I find an amp that has phase control for the rear subs? What about my front subs, I'm using a EP4000 amp without phase control, is this an issue? Can anyone recommend an amp with phase control that would be worth the money? I plan on using one or two of these for filler subs.

Thoughts?
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

Ok, FOH, I'll give it a shot tongue.gif
What are your thoughts on using a low power plate amp for a higher RMS driver? What filler subs did you pickup to compliment your IB?


Regarding the lower power amp, if the amp is powering a small sealed approach, then you'll need as much amp as possible, .. any more specifics? edit; I see the mention of the Dayton 15", good idea, I've no experience with them but they're quite popular so info should be plentiful. Also, wrt amps, maybe the INukes, or Crowns may have phase/distance manipulation in their onboard DSP. I'm likely going to utilize a dsp loudspeaker processor from Symetrix. Thus enabling individual control over each sub freq, EQ, high, low pass, delay, etc.

I picked up two Seaton SubMersives for both added operational headroom, and for "filler" duty mitigating whatever response issues I encounter in the freq domain. I've yet to integrate them as I'm a bit under the weather right now. Havn't even opened them up yet,... mad.gif it's killing me.



Best of luck
Edited by FOH - 7/17/12 at 12:29pm
post #46 of 52
Thread Starter 
My gosh FOH! That's some buku buckes right there for extra/filler subs! WOW! Please excuse my suprised reply, but I didn't expect that, sweeeeetness none the less cool.gif

I'll ask around for an amp for those subs, I just don't want to spend much in case it doesn't work as well as hoped rolleyes.gif
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

Since phase seems to be very important when utilizing multiple subs, mainly when they are in opposite ends of the room, I take it that it's mandatory that I find an amp that has phase control for the rear subs? What about my front subs, I'm using a EP4000 amp without phase control, is this an issue? Can anyone recommend an amp with phase control that would be worth the money? I plan on using one or two of these for filler subs.
Thoughts?

you can adjust phase with a simple elemental designs eq.2 in line. it has phase, two bands of eq, and gain adjustment on it. PM if you are interested, I have one Im not using atm. You could even keep all subs on a single amp this way if wired properly. smile.gif
post #48 of 52
Thread Starter 
Interesting... PM'd smile.gif
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

My gosh FOH! That's some buku buckes right there for extra/filler subs! WOW! Please excuse my suprised reply, but I didn't expect that, sweeeeetness none the less cool.gif
I'll ask around for an amp for those subs, I just don't want to spend much in case it doesn't work as well as hoped rolleyes.gif

Well, regarding the SubMersives, I'm not currently in a position to diy another sub project. And examining the current landscape of mfrs offering small sealed, Seaton's SubM possesses solid extension down into the single digits in most applications, really stands out value wise IMO, aestheically pleasing, small footprint. Additionally, it a fully mature, fully realized/refined product. Besides, the finish matches my mains cool.gif

The suggestion of the eD parametric could be a good one. I've got several EQ's, one of which being the eD parametric. I've measured the response; it works fine however the printed marking are off somewhat if I recall correctly.



Best of luck
post #50 of 52
Thread Starter 
I think that the eq.2 will be my best bang for the buck bet. Also, instead of the Dayton 15's, I found a dude that had 2 MFW-15's he was letting go quite reasonably so I'm going to pick those two up. And then with the eq.2, I can run them off my Behringer smile.gif
post #51 of 52
Thread Starter 
I'm in the middle of searching right now but if anyone has box configurations for the MFW-15's to offer, that would be cool. Sealed I'm sure but volume I am not, two seperate boxes as well, for placement options.
post #52 of 52
Thread Starter 
Well, I picked up a couple of MFW-15's from one member on here and a Element Designs eq.2 from another member which will give me phase adjustability for my rear subs. I'm also in the middle of building a couple of 2.5cuft boxes for the subs and will run them off of the 2nd channel on my EP4000 amp. Keep an eye on the "Shh no talking" build for more details and pictures smile.gif
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