JVC - New Bulb Design Update?

The flap design is relatively new within the last 2 months, it's not likely anyone has enough hours with this lamp to know if it helped. We'd also need a relatively large sample group.

There was a JVC lamp tracking thread that was popular for a while but went idle in the recent months.

How often the projector is used should be a consideration. I use my JVC sparingly for critical 2D BD viewing, but use my Sony HW30 all the time since the lamp is about 1/2 the price of the JVC and it's held up quite well so far.

An alternative to the JVC is the Epson 5010 which has good blacks & better/brighter 3D.

The HW30 and the 5010 were this years 'jack-of-all-trades' projectors. They both handled 2D and 3D well. The 5010's main benefit is the excellent torch modes in 2D (for ambient light viewing) and also very bright 3D (when combined with an HP screen).

We can't discuss specific street prices in the forums, but even the street price of the HW30 is tough against the current price of the 5010. (The included Sony glasses are ok, the Epson's are more comfortable). I'm not sure how Sony would have sold a single HW30 @ the current MSRP. Or the VW95, or the 1000 for that matter.

This was the year that companies were lowering their prices to be be competitive such as JVC knocking down the price of the RS45. BenQ lowered the price on W7000 and Epson did the same with the 5010.

If Sony is planning a replacement for the HW30, it's going to have to be in the 2.5-3k (TOPS) street price (or MSRP, however they want to cook the #'s).

Is this a thread about the updated lamp for the new JVC's, or alternate projector choices?

Yes, unfortunately what you said seems to be true. I'm currently at about 260 hours on my X3 and I'm completely satisfied with it. No noticeable dimming at all. Follow the RS40/X3 owners thread to stay informed about any updates with the bulb.

With the JVC you don't have to settle for just "good" blacks. You will get outstanding native black level performance (no dynamic iris). Only you can decide if it's worth it for you.

Wow....lighten up....he was addressing the OP's actual question.

Unless that was honest question then my apology.

both since the OP was looking at the JVC and some of the alternates.

Regarding the original question, there wasn't a solid way to track the original JVC lamp issues even when everyone was participating several months ago. There is no good answer to this question today. JVC owners will just have to wait and see what happens as the hours accumulate on the new -003 with the flap.

I run my RS55 in high altitude mode since I don't mind the extra fan noise and tracking the lumens every 50 hours. My original lamp in my RS50 last year didn't make it to 400 hours before 50%+ dimming.

edit: the real issue with providing valid responses is that most folks don't own a light meter to track the dimming. It's usually a major change in light output that is obvious before some folks will post with their experience.

If a flap design fixes this problem, I'll be more than shocked. I once fixed a car's cracked engine block by tightening a screw and adding a metal fin to the back of the car.

If the problem with early lamp failure is because of excess heat (and that's very possible) then I do think the flap could help. It may help "organize" airflow and actually aid in getting heat away from the lamp. It might be possible to measure the difference in airflow or exit temp of the air if one had access to both lamp designs and the appropriate equipment. In any event I doubt JVC just decided to add a flap for the hell of it (unless they wanted to stir up a flap about a flap ).

In any event I would not let the lamp issue sway my decision. Yes, it may happen to you but a) It's not happened to many of us with last years or this years models and b) if it does happen JVC (for the most part) has been very understanding of the issue and is replacing the lamps well beyond the stated warranty period. If you like the unit go for it......

It is common knowledge that the lamp was designed by Wile Coyote from Acme labs.

It is the same thing when they put air channels on high-end servers, but the problem is the JVC flap did not look enclosed enough or separated enough. The air flow has to be done just right to help much.

Maybe it's better than I am thinking, but I have my doubts. Sounds like they are in beta stage 1 in fixing the lamp. If the problem is really just air-flow, then there is some chance that people running in cooler environments with high altitude mode would get more hours on the lamp, but I saw no evidence (even though dealing anecdotally only) of such things. Also, even older JVC lamps often didn't make it past 2000 (a few but even the good ones like on an RS10 failed some), so they've never had the best lamps.

They will replace the lamp, so you can get more than 1000 hours most likely before buying one. There is so much info in this forum about this PJ, it is going to be repetitive, although others are welcome to chime in of course. You should read through Zombie's shootout, everything is there. If you want a JVC, I would buy it and pair it with a Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain screen, and not worry about the lamp. The RS-45 is THE black level fanatic projector, but it does not come without a few issues. Note though that overall my experience is positive.

The RS-45 not having a CMS is a small issue (but most won't care), the error on my unit is visible by eye in the form of a yellow push in some movies that already lean towards yellow. The reason a yellow push tends to be visible is because many directors intent love adding a yellow flair in movies, and the JVC adds to that yellow and makes it cartoony at times. For instance, some PJ's have more accurate color after both are calibrated (but the JVC's color is richer and more contrasty looking). This error of the JVC is probably due to saturation tracking. You must understand that I am OCD on projectors and color, and most people would not even notice this. When the JVC is fed neutral or bluish lighting (about half of movies use somewhat neutral lighting), then I don't notice any color error really.

All projectors have issues, this is just the JVC's two main issues. The JVC is very sharp and pristine and can beat most projectors when fed many movies by bluray. I would say that at poorer sources like streaming, the JVC does not do as well as some DLP's as far as hiding the errors of noise in sources, and I assume this is the way it processes the image (or doesn't process it). Changing directions and talking about 3D, well the 3D certainly ghosts at time, but I haven't thought of it as all that problematic, but definitely could be slightly better. The blacks in 3D mode are incredible and very inky, space scenes in 3D are better than other projectors IMHO.

The JVC really needs calibrated, especially the gamma. Despite these few issues, you cannot beat the image in some movies, especially the high-budget films that have dark-contrast in them, you will never see a movie like Harry Potter or Star Wars look as good on another projector as it does on the JVC (IMHO). The JVC still does very well in mixed contrast and bright scenes also (despite what some claim) but only after you fix the gamma, and it needs a movie to be filmed with good lighting. Mr. Popper's Penguins (although not a great movie) is a good example of when a movie with bright scenes looks better on the JVC than most other projectors (probably because the lighting is not overblown). Another example would be Blackthorne (also not a great movie, not bad either though), here you have a movie with mostly just-above-evening time filming, and the JVC really does well on this. Put in a movie like Batman Returns or Dark Knight, and I'd probably still pick the JVC to watch it on if I had a choice between (10) different projectors. If you put in Transformers, I might choose a DLP, but it would be close. The movie "Into the Wild" looks better on a DLP, not entirely sure why but most likely due to the way it was filmed and the lighting and noise. Some of these movies I have seen on 5+ different projectors. I would say I prefer the JVC in 3 out of 4 Blurays (75% of the time) over other projectors I have seen them on. On occasion, there are some movies that look better on other projectors, the reasons why are complicated.

I have an RS40 and am on my third lamp in under 800 hours. I opted to pick up an Epson 6010 at a good price for improved 3D. The JVC RS40 was just not bright enough after 150 hours on the previous lamps. It also has ghosting issues. I've heard that 3D on the RS45 is even worse. The Epson is plenty bright in 3D. I had planned to use both, but the blacks on the Epson are surprisingly good enough that the JVC will not be missed. This is coming from a guy who's had three generations of JVCs.

If 3D is not important to you and you must own a JVC, try looking for an earlier generation. The RS35 is a superb PJ and lamps or PJ design are obviously better, and the lamps are cheaper too. The RS25 is another very good option. Not sure what these go for used or their availability. Let me add that considering the price of the RS40 B-stocks at AVS and JVC's unadvertised lamp replacement practice, you probably can't get hurt going that route either and it does 3D, just not the best in class. I would not spend the money on a new RS45. I'd go with the B-stock RS40 if I had to have a newer JVC and 3D.

If I could design my theater all over again, I'd forget CIH and go with two of these older JVCs, a DaLite HP, and motorman45's Omega filter solution. Sounds like the best 3D solution and great 2D from a single JVC. However, my CIH setup with Epson ain't too shabby either. I get lots of complements and am very happy with my setup.

Choices, choices.... Good luck with whatever you go with.

I don't buy into the 3D on the RS-45 being worse than the RS-40, I've seen it on both and it looks the same to me. The insides are 90% identical for the most part (I've checked). I think people report this because of differences in brightness, unit variation, etc... These types of tests are complicated to conduct and would require a specific testing methodology that no-one has done.

I do appreciate people making people aware of the RS-45's ghosting, but they should also be aware that this projector is not ALL bad in 3D either. There are some movies where you may see ghosting less than 5 minutes combined in the entire movie, other movies it can be visible a lot (like half the movie or nearly most of the movie).

I don't believe in 2-projector 3D setups, not unless I see it for myself despite what some claim. The misalignment of convergence across a screen is different between two projectors and is going to significantly soften the image, as it would be impossible to line them up perfectly because there is no such thing as lining up two projectors perfectly (2 DLP's could come close, but one would need lens shift which would move the error over anyhow). The JVC RS-55, Epson 5010/6010, or the Sonys with their multi-point pixel adjustments would be easier to line up than an RS-45, as you have limited convergence adjustment functionality on the RS-45 (which works great in non-3D stuff).

Steven,

I have a RS40 that I use for just 2d movie watching and I have a Vivitek H5082 that I use for HDTV sports watching. I am needing to generate a little money and had been thinking of selling both projectors and just buying 1 to use for everything. I am hesitant to sell the RS40 because I don't want to give up the excellent black level. So are you saying if I went with an Epson 5010 that the black level would be close enough that I wouldn't miss it and I would even gain some brightness? I use both a 1.5 gain 110" 2.35 screen and a 2.4 gain 92" 1.78 HP screen. 3d viewing isn't a concern for me since I'm not able to see it.

Thanks for your advice,
Mike

You should definitely look into the HP 2.4 gain screen for that screen size, the JVC does not have enough brightness if you want the lamp to last a long time.

1) There is no such thing as enough light output when talking about lamp costs and how long a lamp might last. The JVC has a heavy manual IRIS (aperture) that lets you clamp the brightness way down, so it would be hard to make it too bright. Even if it is too bright the first 300 hours, it is unlikely to be too bright after that. Add to that 3D (even if you only watch occasionally) and that makes it even more needed.

2) Even a good lamp loses a lot of brightness at 1000 hours, on average at least 25% to 50%.

3) You can buy an ND filter for $50 if you really need to, and this can be used each time you get a new lamp and want to tame the brightness until the lamp has worn in.

4) One of the #1 complaints on the JVC is it not being bright enough after the lamp wears in, yet these same people will try to tell you that X and X screen size is fine with X and X gain. My response is that 4x gain with an ND filter would be do-able with the JVC if such a screen existed without side effects (They do exist, but not without side effects).

5) A Da-Lite High Power screen raises both white and black levels at the same time, so you maintain the same contrast. In most rooms, it will look as good as much more expensive screens (and IMHO better since you will get a brighter image longer). If you bought an expensive 1.0 gain Stewart or something, it might look a little better for the first 200 hours, but Actually in most rooms, the Da-Lite HP screen will increase intrascene and ANSI contrast because of rejecting light, because even as perfect as some of us think our rooms are, even black material still reflects some light, and the Da-Lite rejects it to some degree.

6) The only real alternative to an HP screen that can greatly increase brightness without side effects are extremely expensive screens.

7) Even if you believe the lamp issue is fixed, not having gain makes you more susceptible to the issue and even in a best case makes the lamp last a shorter time period increasing replacement costs.

lamps are going to dim over time, regardless of which projector you choose. By going with the high gain, you can run in a lower lamp setting to begin with and in the case of the JVC, crank down the iris for maximum contrast. I still run my RS55 (with only 50 hours) with full lamp, -13 iris on a 142" 16:9 2.8HP. This is in a fully light controlled room and gives a huge 'plasma on the wall' appearance.

@mbw23air - We've had a number of JVC owners convert to the 5010. The 2D black level was better than I was expecting and is going to satisfy all but the most critical black level fanatics. The 3D @ 1400 D65 lumens is very good - especially on the HP screen. With ~80% loss through the glasses, I prefer all the light we can get. The 5010 will cause me to squint on certain bright scenes (through the glasses) - now that's the kind of 3D i'm talking about, not the dim output I see at the theaters.

Thanks Zombie. I might first put my Vivitek H5082 up for sale to see what I can get for it. It's a bright 1080p DLP and I really like it but if I can sell it and the RS40 and put some money in my pocket I might have to do that and get the Epson 5010.

Mike

Is this a thread about the updated lamp for the new JVC's and alternate projector choices......or about screens now??

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say everyone with a JVC should own an HP screen, since it has horizontal viewing cone limitations, but people concerned about lamp life will almost always need more gain.

Quite a few people buying these projectors won't care about lamp life that much, because they don't put enough hours on their PJ's, or don't care about lamp cost, or they just replace the projector so often it doesn't matter. For those of us that do care, it's about 3 things --- gain, gain, and gain.

Zombie, is it ok to run in high altitude mode?
I have my RS65 in a separate room with a very strong drum extractor fan, noise is no problem for me. Does this help the lamp remain cooler?

The fan moving faster will keep any projector cooler. If it helps lamp life, we do not know since none of us actually know the cause of the failures. It probably helps some to run the fan faster regardless.

Nearing 100 hours on a 003 lamp. I'm at -15 with the aperture on a 120" 1.3 gain screen. It's still bright enough to run with lights on in the room. Actually it certain scenes I still squint, because it maybe a tad too bright.

I came from two very bright projectors, Benq w1000 and the Infocus SP8602.
So I know what bright looks like. The JVC is bright as hell!! lol
Now will it be that way at 500 hours? I won't know till I get there.
The higher gain screens will give you more leeway with any projector's aging lamp.

I still haven't seen a projector I'm willing to trade the 2d movie image for over the RS45. Good black levels isn't the same as reference black levels.

So unless you have a wide pattern of seats, its the perfect screen for a JVC? or might there actually be better screens out there unless one really needs the light. With my 110 inch D bat cave, I kinda think the Stewart Snomatt eats the PQ of the HP for lunch. Another choice which easily spits out the HP is the JKP 1.1. The HP is a great choice for large screens where a projector doesn't have the lumens to light it up to one's desires but if you have enough light and a good viewing environment, there are screen choices that will give far better performance than the HP. Its hard to believe but one must actuaslly do the comparisons to see how true my statements are. Several big boys have switched to 1.0 gain fabrics from 1.3 gain fabrics and have simply been amazed how PQ improved. These boys have black pit theaters and muscle projectors. But a JVC would benefit substantially from a HQ 1.0 gain screen if the screen size is small enough and the room is a dark pit.

You kid but I might throw out that offer....someone wants to burn hours rapidly and periodically check light (on the 003) I would send them a new lamp free of charge. Might put minds at ease...

The HP screen is a safe bet given 3D these days (and the OP wanted 120" to 130"), but I can't really disagree that some screens look a little silkier so to speak, but maybe hesitant to say "blows away", from what I've seen it is more incremental but I could be wrong given that I haven't had both in my room. I've seen other screens but I often forget what is what, I actually do go places and look and try this stuff as I have a job that requires travel, so I am all over the place. Even been doing a few free calibrations for some people just for fun.

I'm just curious as to who these big boys are, and secondly as to why they are using such small screens

@Jason
I'd consider doing your test, but I'm not sure I'd want to put that many hours on the JVC just to find out.
Now if you send me a projector and a lamp, then we're talking

Plus a single sample size is pretty worthless to be honest, but you already know that. Despite my complaining about the lamp, at least JVC is doing right so far, so I'm not really sorry, but it is a tad annoying. Thank god for my 106" HP screen after I have 50% dimming in 400 hours, yet 3D is still bright enough in torch mode and 2D is great...

Yeah I know it wouldn't necessarily tell the whole story. But it could certainly help (or hurt) that "hope" we all have this will fix it.