Denon 2312CI not impressed... - Page 2

FOllowing the setup guide is a great place tostart.

Part of the problem is nobody actually knows what you mean when you say the Audyssey setup is too bright. It might mean that there's more energy in the range from say 2000 to 4000 Hz, roughly, which is where I usually hear "bright" but it also may be a less rich bass end than you are used to causing the mids and highs in general to call more attention to themselves than you're used to.

The Audyssey target curve rolls off the highs a bit, so if you have less highs post Audyssey than pre Audyssey, your speakers might be on the very mellow side, or there might be something unusual about the way your room interacts with the speakers, or your body interacts with the sound of the room, when you are running Audyssey.

So hard to figure out from a distance using words rather than measurements.

You were disappointed bith the "bypass L&R" setting. What did it not do (since your L&R Focals were untouched) that you didn't like? FWIW, I remember when I got my Paradigms, I wanted to hear their native sound for a while, so I ran bypass L&R (I had a mismatched center for a while) and I liked it. But I could tell how the Audyssey process improved things, and eventually left it engaged. For a while I ran Audyssey Flat for music because I was not enamored of the high end roll off, but over time, my ears became accustomed to that and I leave it on the base Audyssey curve all the time.

Everybody's experience is different, and it can take a while to reacclimate yourself to something that might be technically "righter" that is contrary to your personal preferences. I have said multiple times that I tend to like speakers that are a little recessed in the brightness/presence range, but eventually, I start to notice they make sounds with an edge, whether horns or electric guitars or whatever, sound too polite, a bit unexciting. So I let Audyssey give me what's good for me . . . most of the time . . . after having experimented enough to find a mic placement layout that seems to work well in my room as currently arranged.

Why don't you do a Processor Reset..
And set up the channel levels & delays with Audyssey OFF..

Next compare How that sounds compared vs. What it sounded like when Audyssey was ON...

Post back your comments/results..

Just my $0.02...

Hey fellas, I have an Integra dtr 50.2 and Focal 836V's. When I gave them a listen, they were hooked up to a very nice Mcintosh amp in a room treated with the works. If you name the room treatment, it was in there. I asked that the speakers be hooked up to an Integra similar to mine and it sounded the same. Of course you can't crank up the sound as much but nevertheless, it sounded the same. As far as it sounding bright, I don't they are but that's me. It's not the reciever, it may just be that your ears require something else. Audyssey rocks....

I have Focal Profiles - They sound great with a Denon A100 (4311). They also sounded great with a Pio 94 and 74.

The only difference between any of the AVR's was the room EQ solution and I prefer Audyssey XT32 to MCACC, hence the Denon.

Reality is, your (and my) speakers are going to sound exactly the same no matter what competent AVR is driving them until DSP is applied - follow the Audyssey guide carefully and use a boom stand for the mic to address your issues.

Even your attempts at insults aren't in context.

But if your knowledge of women is as extensive as your knowledge of AV, I'll assume you were raised and still live in a monastery.

Sounds to me you just need to get a mic stand and rerun audyssey. Holding the mic or just putting it on something on the couch will give you bad results. It's easy for small things to screw it up. If you just rerun it with a mic stand, along with making sure it's quiet when you run audyssey will make a world of difference. Considering you like it with bypass on, i would expect if it's run correctly you will really like the results.

I went through the same thing. I also got a harsh, bright sound from the Audyssey.

It's the Audyssey as this receiver sounds awesome without it. I have a AVR-3803 I have been using and the AVR-2312ci sounds just like it. Then I used Audyssey and the sound quality turned to garbage.

Everyone said it was my setup but that is what the Audyssey is suppose to correct.

So if you have to relocate all your speakers to compensate for Audysseys shortcomings, you may as well move them and put up sound material on your walls and ceiling and not use the Audyssey at all as you shouldn't need it then.

Just do as I did, and turn the Audyssey off! It's a pain since it's a separate setting for each input, and not a global setting. BUT it's worth it.

Audyssey was mis-adjusting surround and main speakers by up to 3 db and misadjusting the subwoofer by over 14 db (probably closer to 20 db) to low. It also reported my frequency response of my center and surround speakers so that the receiver software put in a 40 hz crossover for small satellite speakers.

On top of all that with levels and crossovers, the audyssey did not correctly time align the subwoofer which requires a 180 degrees out of phase signal for it's position from the other speakers. It made the subwoofer boomy, directional, localized, and disconnected from the main speakers. Turning off the Audyssey allowed me to put things back and it was a HUGE difference.

This is an awesome receiver. Far better than most, so just disabling the Audyssey can give you the correct sound bypassing any sound fudging.

As you can see, there's so many Audyssey supporters here that they attack anyone that finds problems with their Audyssey, BUT it is a problem in some systems.

I find it untrustworthy as it's not capable of adjusting the sound correctly all of the time and obviously destroys it. I usually am a purist and bypass anything like Audyssey that alters the pure audio signals, BUT I know room correction is something that beneifits the sound in every way, as some had used separate EQs and other equipment to help with poor acoustics due to a room before Audyssey, YPAO, and MCCAC were even thought of. However this is not a good case as it has proven to destroy the sound quality quite easily as it's not compatible with some rooms. Your room has to cater to the Audyssey system which in itself, would make the Audyssey system not needed if you have to add material to walls and ceiling and reposition the speakers themselves.

Do yourself a favor and turn it off and listen to the beautiful sound that this Denon CAN MAKE without Audyssey engaged.

Make sure your Re-Eq for surround sound is turned off (it rolls off the treble) and make sure your tone controls are not used, there's a setting in the menu.

I use a Radio Shack Sound Pressure Level Meter setting it to C weighted and slow response.

I uses an assortment of calibration discs to run calibration signals through the system and adjust according to the results.

Your subwoofer should be set to bypass the internal crossovers so that the receivers crossover can be used correctly. If you have no bypass setting, turn your crossover to it's highest setting.

You can move your subwoofer around the room using the test signals and your SPL meter to find it's best spot. You'll want to use use several low bass signals from 30Hz up to 150Hz, going every 10hz in the low range, so that you can find any spikes in your room. The idea is to move the subwoofer where all frequencies have the same output on the SPL meter. Then you can use the polarity/phase setting so that the bass frequencies are in phase with your main speakers, sounding as one, not being localized and separate sounding. You'll likely have to repeat the signal output tests when switching the polarity/phase to obtain the best results.

You'll want to use a tripod if your able to. Best Buy has full height tripods for $40 or $50. The $50 tripod is quite nice and what I use.

Good luck in getting your system sounding optimal!

Have you picked up a mic stand and run audyssey again yet? Also when running it make sure there aren't any outside sounds.

Edit: there is a 9 band EQ that you can set if you want to. I would use that or turn off audyssey until you get that mic stand and are able to rerun audyssey and then see how you like the results. I have rerun it a bunch of times after moving stuff around sometimes the results are great other times they suck, if they don't turn out well I run it again. The main things I watch out for when running it after making sure you have good mic placement on the stand is outside noises.

+ 1000. Rerun all positions with tripod in a quiet time (air condition off, etc...) and enjoy the wonderful sound Audessey does for your system.

Yes, because even after you turn it off, it's settings are still the same. You have to recalibrate your levels, crossovers, distances, speaker sizes, all manually by calibration or by ear.

You go into the audio/video settings, go into the audio settings, go to Mult Eq and then change the setting from Reference, Flat, L/R Bypass to OFF. You'll have to do this on EVERY input.

After you do that, then you have to change the settings to the correct levels, crossovers, etc in the main setup menu. Go to Setup, the speakers, then make the changes.

Good luck.

Have you rerun Audyssey properly yet? You really should before forming any opinions of its effectiveness.

A boom mic stand would be ideal, but the tripod will definitely help. If you carefully follow the guide in the Audyssey thread, you should be good to go. The process is simple, but there are some elements that need to done correctly for the best results.

Good luck, and hopefully you get the results you are looking for.

Ok, sorry, there's no reference name just audyssey which stands for their reference setting. Just scroll through Audyssey, Audyssey Flat, Audyssey L/R bypass, Off and select Off. You'll also need to go to your 2 Channel audio settings and select the audyssey settings as not used also.

Unforunately Denon makes it very hard to disable the Audyssey setting once you do your 'first' auto setup. Best not to auto setup ever and avoid this.

As far as the menu drill down, you'll just have to read the manual as it's in there.

Good luck

Well, it's actually quite easy to disable Audyssey, you just walked through it. If that's too hard to figure out reset the Denon and start over.

OldSchool's situation is unique - because his system is.

Zaksbro, search the forums for tripod audyssey, there are recommendations very cheap, and it will benefit your system greatly. Spend time with the Audyssey FAQ, understand what the process is. I'm guessing your speakers sound bright because of mic placement and direction, the FAQ will give you tips on placement. The effort should be worth it.

Good luck.

I see similar statements about different AVRs all the time.
What are you basing this on ?
How much current is the Denon capable of and how much is the Onkyo capable of ?
Or if you don't know just detail the minimum current requirements where the break point is between a high current design and a low current design.

My experience with Denon and Focal speakers:


I have Focal speakers (836v and previous models) and they sounded very good with Harmak Kardon 745 Receiver back in 2007.

I updated to Denon 4308 in August 2007 and the sound was no longer so warm - the receiver was not powerful enough to bring all the good sound to the speakers.

After updating to Denon 5308 (in 2008) the sound was much better, but still does not compare with the old Harman Kardon.

cmichel: Could you explain to us how you have come to those conclusions? And did you do direct comparisons level matched? Did you even compare the 5308 to the HK? Or did you just upgrade from the 4308 to the 5308 and think you remembered the HK's sound enough?

Humans cannot compare amplifiers without ABXing them. We can remember words or a tune but we cannot remember every tiny detail in a song even after just a few minutes. The longer the time period, the more details we forget, but we can still remember the tune and think we remember it perfectly. We do not.

Something like this would be ideal

http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-M...8470962&sr=8-1

^^^ this...

and fwiw, i've heard the setup in question, and it does sound great...

OP probably needs to adjust to new speakers. Maybe the tweeters will smoothen after some time ( do speakers really break in? )

OP loves def tech which are bright speakers, but finds the focal too bright?

I need to listen to some focals before i say anything about them.

Thanks for the complement! Apparently, people will say nice things if you feed them well :-)

Glad to see you haven't gotten completely frustrated with the way your thread went and being willing to give it another shot. With the mic stand and following the Audyssey guide, you should see much better results. Please post back with your impressions once you've had the chance to rerun Audyssey.

If still have other questions, you might want to post them in the Audyssey thread - nothing wrong with this one, but the Audyssey specific thread will get even more attention from experienced users.