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Speakers and Sub Off Same Amp Terminals?

post #1 of 10
6/3/12 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
I've got these 4 ohm Adam speakers in my 2-channel set up:

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/install...77/description

Powered by this Anthem amp:

http://www.anthemav.com/products/ant...integrated-225

I want to add a sub but the amp has only one set of speaker terminals and no sub or preamp out. Can I use spades and bananas to run speaker level connection to both my Velodyne sub and the speakers off the one set of speaker terminals? My obvious concern would be the load presented to the amp. Thanks in advance...

John
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post #2 of 10
6/4/12 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

I've got these 4 ohm Adam speakers in my 2-channel set up:

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/install...77/description

Powered by this Anthem amp:

http://www.anthemav.com/products/ant...integrated-225

I want to add a sub but the amp has only one set of speaker terminals and no sub or preamp out. Can I use spades and bananas to run speaker level connection to both my Velodyne sub and the speakers off the one set of speaker terminals? My obvious concern would be the load presented to the amp. Thanks in advance...

You didn't say which Velodyne subwoofer you want to use, so I picked one fror you. Here's its manual:

http://velodyne.com/pdf/cht/cht-q_manual_revc.pdf

Turn to Figure 5 on page 11. Basically they want you to hook speaker wires from your amplifier to the speaker input terminals on the subwoofer, and connect your existing pair of speakers to the speaker output terminals on the subwoofer.

This is done for both your convenience and also for performance reasons. The convenience is that you now have places to attach all of your gozintas and comezoutas. ;-)

The technical reason is described on page 17. The subwoofer has a built-in crossover that protects your existing speakers from loud bass signals that are now being handled by your subwoofer. Routing the speaker wiring through your subwoofer accomplishes that for you.
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post #3 of 10
6/4/12 at 8:22am
That sub would not be my choice for your speakers in a 2 channel setup. Your Adam GTC77s have large 7" woofers with a frequency response down to 38hz. That Velodyne sub has a single high pass crossover frequency of 120hz, which means you'll be passing off almost all the midbass range to the sub when you don't need to. Moreover, crossing over the sub at that high a frequency may cause it to be localizable, as well as losing some of the stereo midbass effects you may be getting with some music.

Besides, if you live in the US, you probably won't be able to find that sub under that model # anyway; it's a non-US market designation, and I think the US market model is the DEQ.

Assuming your room isn't very large (room size affects sub performance), I'd look at the SVS PB12-NSD which has a high pass filter at 80hz. The SVS subs are considered excellent values at their price point (better than most Velodynes). Although an even lower crossover could be better; it's just hard to find a sub with that capability at a good price.
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post #4 of 10
6/4/12 at 8:55am
Should be able to use a second pair of speaker cables running off to sub's line level inputs, and setting the LPF on the sub to >40hz

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post #5 of 10
6/4/12 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You didn't say which Velodyne subwoofer you want to use, so I picked one fror you. Here's its manual:

http://velodyne.com/pdf/cht/cht-q_manual_revc.pdf

Turn to Figure 5 on page 11. Basically they want you to hook speaker wires from your amplifier to the speaker input terminals on the subwoofer, and connect your existing pair of speakers to the speaker output terminals on the subwoofer.

This is done for both your convenience and also for performance reasons. The convenience is that you now have places to attach all of your gozintas and comezoutas. ;-)

The technical reason is described on page 17. The subwoofer has a built-in crossover that protects your existing speakers from loud bass signals that are now being handled by your subwoofer. Routing the speaker wiring through your subwoofer accomplishes that for you.

Sorry, should have been more specific on the sub. It's an older DD12 (not 12+) and has speaker input terminals but not output terminals, picture attached...

John
LL
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post #6 of 10
6/4/12 at 9:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That sub would not be my choice for your speakers in a 2 channel setup. Your Adam GTC77s have large 7" woofers with a frequency response down to 38hz. That Velodyne sub has a single high pass crossover frequency of 120hz, which means you'll be passing off almost all the midbass range to the sub when you don't need to. Moreover, crossing over the sub at that high a frequency may cause it to be localizable, as well as losing some of the stereo midbass effects you may be getting with some music.

Besides, if you live in the US, you probably won't be able to find that sub under that model # anyway; it's a non-US market designation, and I think the US market model is the DEQ.

Assuming your room isn't very large (room size affects sub performance), I'd look at the SVS PB12-NSD which has a high pass filter at 80hz. The SVS subs are considered excellent values at their price point (better than most Velodynes). Although an even lower crossover could be better; it's just hard to find a sub with that capability at a good price.

Thanks. I already have a sub, hoping to figure a work around to use it. Just bought the speakers so no new sub in my immediate future ...

John
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post #7 of 10
6/4/12 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theonetruegreg View Post

Should be able to use a second pair of speaker cables running off to sub's line level inputs, and setting the LPF on the sub to >40hz


That's what I was proposing to do - with 4 ohm speakers that's not too demanding a load for the amp? I guess I could try it and see if any protection circuits trip. Thanks to all for their feedback...

John
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post #8 of 10
6/4/12 at 9:50am
Quote:


with 4 ohm speakers that's not too demanding a load for the amp?

The sub has a power amp in it, the 'speaker' inputs present a high impedance load.
Nothing to worry about.
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post #9 of 10
6/4/12 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

The sub has a power amp in it, the 'speaker' inputs present a high impedance load.
Nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the clarification. I had figured as much but nice to have the confirmation...

John
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post #10 of 10
6/8/12 at 4:48pm
Long before MC/HT, all subs were connected via speaker outputs from the amp. And as mentioned, the impedance load to the sub is nothing to worry about.
You either run parallel wires off the amp, one to speaker, one to sub. Or run wire to speaker, then onto the sub. Third; run wires to sub, then onto speakers.
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