AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Audio theory, Setup and Chat › Active vs Passive based systems
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Active vs Passive based systems

post #1 of 12
6/3/12 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 
I've decided to try to really upgrade my computer setup. However, I have run into some problems. I had originally planned on using a Peachtree product (i.e. Decco, Nova) to power both speakers and headphones. iMac>Decco>Speakers/Headphones. But I am beginning to worry that this may not work out as well as I'd hoped. I'm sure the headphone output in the Decco is fine, but there is no doubt in my mind that I could easily find something that far outclasses it for less. So now I'm thinking I should split it up. I was thinking something like Dac+HP AMP and integrated amp, or integrated amp+HP AMP and a separate dac. I'm not too worried about upgradability, more just getting the best stuff for my budget. I want to keep this at around 1,100-1,200USD. Some of the Audio-GD stuff looks good (HP amp+dac). I could always consider active speakers I suppose, which might be a good idea. I will either be sitting in front of a desk with the speakers, or at the back of my room, about 7ft away. I've looked around and have made a passive setup and an active setup. Passive would look something like this: iMac>decco65(could be replaced with another peachtree product)>Sierra-1/Various headphones. Most of the time I'd use the headphones when I was at the desk, but the speakers when I moved back (which is why I'd go w/ slightly large passives). Active would look something like this: iMac>Audio-gd NFB-10.2>either Adam A7X/A5X or Focal CMS50 or CMS65/Various headphones. I could use either speakers or headphones at the desk, and speakers far away, although I'm not sure the actives would perform as well at a distance. The speakers will be on the desk pictures above, a but less than 60in apart. I will usually be sitting at the desk, but I may go several feet away, but never more than 7ish ft. Any thoughts on how it will sound through both speakers and headphones for either setup?
LL
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 12
6/4/12 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by awolf97 View Post

I've decided to try to really upgrade my computer setup. However, I have run into some problems. I had originally planned on using a Peachtree product (i.e. Decco, Nova) to power both speakers and headphones. iMac>Decco>Speakers/Headphones. But I am beginning to worry that this may not work out as well as I'd hoped. I'm sure the headphone output in the Decco is fine, but there is no doubt in my mind that I could easily find something that far outclasses it for less. So now I'm thinking I should split it up. I was thinking something like Dac+HP AMP and integrated amp, or integrated amp+HP AMP and a separate dac. I'm not too worried about upgradability, more just getting the best stuff for my budget. I want to keep this at around 1,100-1,200USD. Some of the Audio-GD stuff looks good (HP amp+dac). I could always consider active speakers I suppose, which might be a good idea. I will either be sitting in front of a desk with the speakers, or at the back of my room, about 7ft away. I've looked around and have made a passive setup and an active setup. Passive would look something like this: iMac>decco65(could be replaced with another peachtree product)>Sierra-1/Various headphones. Most of the time I'd use the headphones when I was at the desk, but the speakers when I moved back (which is why I'd go w/ slightly large passives). Active would look something like this: iMac>Audio-gd NFB-10.2>either Adam A7X/A5X or Focal CMS50 or CMS65/Various headphones. I could use either speakers or headphones at the desk, and speakers far away, although I'm not sure the actives would perform as well at a distance. The speakers will be on the desk pictures above, a but less than 60in apart. I will usually be sitting at the desk, but I may go several feet away, but never more than 7ish ft. Any thoughts on how it will sound through both speakers and headphones for either setup?

I don't see why you aren't considering simply plugging your new headphones into the headphone jack on your computer. It might not work out, but the cost of actually trying it is very low - like nearly nothing in terms of your time and nothing at all in terms of money.

Secondly, there are a lot of reasons why active speakers are not only the wave of the future but also the wave of the present. It is all about crossovers and amplifiers. There are practical limits to the price/performance that can be obtained when the speakers and the amplifiers are separate components. It has been known for a long time that a tightly integrated package of amplifier, crossover, and speaker gives the best possible performance, and can also provide the best price/performance.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 12
6/4/12 at 4:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I don't see why you aren't considering simply plugging your new headphones into the headphone jack on your computer. It might not work out, but the cost of actually trying it is very low - like nearly nothing in terms of your time and nothing at all in terms of money.

Secondly, there are a lot of reasons why active speakers are not only the wave of the future but also the wave of the present. It is all about crossovers and amplifiers. There are practical limits to the price/performance that can be obtained when the speakers and the amplifiers are separate components. It has been known for a long time that a tightly integrated package of amplifier, crossover, and speaker gives the best possible performance, and can also provide the best price/performance.

Thanks. The reason I initially was going w/ passive was the switch-ability of the components, and the fact that the active speakers I am looking at weren't widely used.

Certain headphones aren't driven sufficiently by the headphone jack in computers.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 12
6/4/12 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by awolf97 View Post

Thanks. The reason I initially was going w/ passive was the switch-ability of the components, and the fact that the active speakers I am looking at weren't widely used.

The Adam X-series has a good reputation as near field monitors for audio production. I don't know where your comment about not being widely used comes from.

Quote:


Certain headphones aren't driven sufficiently by the headphone jack in computers.

That depends on so many specifics that I don't think you really know about, that giving it a try would be an absolutely and totally smart first step.

There's a big market in overpriced headphone amps that seems to be more based on fashion and style than actual need. That all said I use headphone amps with both of my main computers - one computer has a Fiio E5 and the other has a Boosteroo. They both perform extremely well, both in use and on the test bench. One cost less than $20 and the other less than $30.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 12
6/4/12 at 7:44am
It's debatable whether or not an active or the passive system would give you the better price/performance value. The Sierra1s are undoubtedly considered to be some of the best speakers in their class. Personally, I would pair them with the HK 3490 because it seems unlikely to me that the Peachtree integrated would give you significantly more SQ performance over the HK to warrant double the price. Then the Sierra1/HK 3490 pairing is much closer in price to your other considerations.

That being said, mostly like your own personal taste would be the biggest determining factor. We all have different sound preferences, and how and where we set our speakers is up is a determining factor, too. You'd be best off buying two setups (either the passive and the active or the two active), auditioning them in your home for a week, and then returning the one you like the least. See the cost of return shipping on one setup as just part of the overall cost. I've done it, and so have others on AVS, and no one has ever said that they weren't glad that they did it. Not to mention that it's kind of fun comparing the two
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 12
6/4/12 at 10:44am
I only have experience with the Nova in the list of gear you have proposed and there, I don't find its USB input all that great. Adding an external asynch USB to S/PDIF adapter improved its subjective performance relative to USB. With that change, it is a very audiophile product.

At home, I run powered speakers (NHT) with a sub. I like the bi-amp configuration in these as it keeps the distortion from the woofer from bleeding into the tweeter as it gets near its limit.

All of these are subpoints though. Likely the sound of these speakers is very different so the difference in active vs not will be secondary. For these reasons, it may pay to shop locally and go and listen to this stuff rather buying them mail order.

Good luck.

And oh, is that a walnut desk? Seems nice .
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 12
6/4/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

It's debatable whether or not an active or the passive system would give you the better price/performance value. The Sierra1s are undoubtedly considered to be some of the best speakers in their class. Personally, I would pair them with the HK 3490 because it seems unlikely to me that the Peachtree integrated would give you significantly more SQ performance over the HK to warrant double the price. Then the Sierra1/HK 3490 pairing is much closer in price to your other considerations.

That being said, mostly like your own personal taste would be the biggest determining factor. We all have different sound preferences, and how and where we set our speakers is up is a determining factor, too. You'd be best off buying two setups (either the passive and the active or the two active), auditioning them in your home for a week, and then returning the one you like the least. See the cost of return shipping on one setup as just part of the overall cost. I've done it, and so have others on AVS, and no one has ever said that they weren't glad that they did it. Not to mention that it's kind of fun comparing the two

+1

I went through the same decision a few months ago and decided that a passive setup with receiver/amp/speakers gave me more flexibility and better performance for the same amount of money. My greatest challenge was finding passive speakers that were friendly enough to be placed on my desktop, and for this, as cel states above, auditioning is essential.

Good luck!
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 12
6/4/12 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by awolf97 View Post

The speakers will be on the desk pictures above, a but less than 60in apart. I will usually be sitting at the desk, but I may go several feet away, but never more than 7ish ft. Any thoughts on how it will sound through both speakers and headphones for either setup?

if you have the given real estate, it would be wise in such a setup to place the speakers on stands many feet in front of the desk such that the desk blocks the floor reflection. speakers on the desk are going to induce early-early (1-3ms) high-gain colored reflections that are destructive to intelligibility, localization, and imaging - as well as edge diffraction from a variety of sources.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 12
6/4/12 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The Adam X-series has a good reputation as near field monitors for audio production. I don't know where your comment about not being widely used comes from.


That depends on so many specifics that I don't think you really know about, that giving it a try would be an absolutely and totally smart first step.

There's a big market in overpriced headphone amps that seems to be more based on fashion and style than actual need. That all said I use headphone amps with both of my main computers - one computer has a Fiio E5 and the other has a Boosteroo. They both perform extremely well, both in use and on the test bench. One cost less than $20 and the other less than $30.

Sorry, I meant to say widely used in Hi-fi setups. Although reading back I realize that was an idiotic comment, as it doesn't really matter. Good point about the headphone amps, I'm trying to keep the cost of my headphone amp down, which is why I was looking at the all-in-one products. Despite what I mentioned above, an device that operates only as an HP-AMP would be the last thing I would buy, because, like you said, anything better isn't really necessary for me.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

It's debatable whether or not an active or the passive system would give you the better price/performance value. The Sierra1s are undoubtedly considered to be some of the best speakers in their class. Personally, I would pair them with the HK 3490 because it seems unlikely to me that the Peachtree integrated would give you significantly more SQ performance over the HK to warrant double the price. Then the Sierra1/HK 3490 pairing is much closer in price to your other considerations.

That being said, mostly like your own personal taste would be the biggest determining factor. We all have different sound preferences, and how and where we set our speakers is up is a determining factor, too. You'd be best off buying two setups (either the passive and the active or the two active), auditioning them in your home for a week, and then returning the one you like the least. See the cost of return shipping on one setup as just part of the overall cost. I've done it, and so have others on AVS, and no one has ever said that they weren't glad that they did it. Not to mention that it's kind of fun comparing the two

I am starting to feel I didn't give the HK enough of a chance. I will go back and look at it for sure. I also am realizing that auditioning is my best bet, so I will try to finalize two systems and then try them out.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I only have experience with the Nova in the list of gear you have proposed and there, I don't find its USB input all that great. Adding an external asynch USB to S/PDIF adapter improved its subjective performance relative to USB. With that change, it is a very audiophile product.

At home, I run powered speakers (NHT) with a sub. I like the bi-amp configuration in these as it keeps the distortion from the woofer from bleeding into the tweeter as it gets near its limit.

All of these are subpoints though. Likely the sound of these speakers is very different so the difference in active vs not will be secondary. For these reasons, it may pay to shop locally and go and listen to this stuff rather buying them mail order.

Good luck.

And oh, is that a walnut desk? Seems nice .

I wasn't planning on running it out of USB. There seems to be debate over which connections to use, and I thought I might as well not use the one in question. I have one store nearby, will go see what they carry. And yes, it is walnut. It's not totally done yet, but the raised shelf was to get the speakers off the desk (I have a tiny room).
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

+1

I went through the same decision a few months ago and decided that a passive setup with receiver/amp/speakers gave me more flexibility and better performance for the same amount of money. My greatest challenge was finding passive speakers that were friendly enough to be placed on my desktop, and for this, as cel states above, auditioning is essential.

Good luck!

Looks like an audition is coming up. I am paying close attention to what speakers I think would work in my situation.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 View Post

if you have the given real estate, it would be wise in such a setup to place the speakers on stands many feet in front of the desk such that the desk blocks the floor reflection. speakers on the desk are going to induce early-early (1-3ms) high-gain colored reflections that are destructive to intelligibility, localization, and imaging - as well as edge diffraction from a variety of sources.

I had the desk built with that shelf in order to try to minimized desk related problems. These will be kept in a room in which I don't have much freedom with placement, so I had to compromise. If I notice problems I will maybe put them higher up.
Thanks
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 12
6/7/12 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
Searching around, I have run into another dilemma. If at similar prices, would it be advisable to go with with speakers+sub, or or better/closer to full range speakers and no sub. I know this can vary greatly from speaker to speaker, but, here is an example. One company, two speaker lines. One line is priced a fair by higher than the other, and considered quite a bit better, though the two speakers are comparable. Both are very highly regarded. I guess the main thing here would be bass response, or which would give me a better presentation from top to bottom. This system will be used for music that would helped by having a strong low-end, but I'm not looking for a basshead's system. I will occasionally watch movies, but this will be in a small room so a subwoofer wouldn't be bought specifically for that. I know it would be more diffficult to integrate a sub into the room, but if I decide on a sub then the room would be treated accordingly. Also, the sub would match the speakers, and is also well reviewed.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 12
6/7/12 at 3:26pm
Is the full range speaker a woofer+tweeter? If so, then I would say go with the sub. To get enough bass out of a two-way speaker, the woofer would have to be fairly large. This makes its size much larger than the tweeter. This results in the mid-range becoming directional as the woofer attempts to produce higher frequencies than it should. When this happens, the sound coming sideways out of the speaker will have a dip in its frequency response in this region. Since what you hear is the sum total of direct+indirect sound of the speaker, the overall sound of the speaker become colored.

In contrast, if you have a smaller speaker it will have a better matched woofer to the tweeter and then a sub will fill in what it can't. You also then have the option of processing the sub to get better response out of it without the need to mess with the mains.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 12
6/7/12 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Is the full range speaker a woofer+tweeter? If so, then I would say go with the sub. To get enough bass out of a two-way speaker, the woofer would have to be fairly large. This makes its size much larger than the tweeter. This results in the mid-range becoming directional as the woofer attempts to produce higher frequencies than it should. When this happens, the sound coming sideways out of the speaker will have a dip in its frequency response in this region. Since what you hear is the sum total of direct+indirect sound of the speaker, the overall sound of the speaker become colored.
In contrast, if you have a smaller speaker it will have a better matched woofer to the tweeter and then a sub will fill in what it can't. You also then have the option of processing the sub to get better response out of it without the need to mess with the mains.
Yes it would be a 2-way, alhough I don need huge amounts of bass. I don't listen to music that mostly relies on a subwoofer, I.e dubstep, so I just need to be able to hear the bass, not get hit by it.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Audio theory, Setup and Chat

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Audio theory, Setup and Chat › Active vs Passive based systems