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Kinetic River Cinema - Page 4

post #91 of 597
Thread Starter 
I have not decided. To be honest I have not really even looked into it that much. My sole focus has been on building the best room that I can and I have not really considered components. This will be for the second sub.

Also, I just talked to Bryan and there will be 2 inches of treatment on the side walls.

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post #92 of 597
That will certainly be a big choice. You may even end up with a system where a self-contained subwoofer simply sits at the front of the room.

Looking forward to more updates. Happy 4th to you!
post #93 of 597
Thread Starter 
And to you as well, have a great 4th. I took off tomorrow and Friday so that I can get some things done with no wife and kids at home. I just drove 45 miles to get 1/2" MDF, the Lowes here does not carry it in 1/2". I'll be getiing the boxes built in the next few days and will snap some pictures and post my progress.
post #94 of 597
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

If anyones interested................
Just got off the phone with the Nailor Rep. I am trying to figure out which diffuser to use for my supplies. After pouring over an Air flow calculator and referencing a post by DE, its determined that I need a diffuser size that gives me an FPM(ft per minute) of 200 - 250. I found that a diffuser that is rated for 384 CFM(cubic ft per minute) will turn out a FPM of 240. The size is 48" x 4". Anyone that has experience with this, please chime in if I am off.
Bottom line, I need a 48" x 4" diffuser. Had the hardest time finding one for sale online, so I called a distributor and he's sending me a quote shortly. Will post when I get that email.
FWIW I was told this diffuser has an NC of 17.
NOW.....I am going to need a transition from my duct to the diffuser. I doubt Lowes has a 6" round to 48"x4" transition, so my first thought was i need to get one fabricated.
If anyone has done this before, please drop a post on how. I may have to go with insulated rectangular duct. Not sure yet.

I forgot to edit this post a few days ago. The price is 188.00.
post #95 of 597
Thread Starter 
Started on the backer boxes today. Was a pain working on my job site table saw, its pretty hard to handle the full sheets of MDF. I will be going to my father in laws workshop tomorrow, to finish up. I should have everything ready for glue by the end of the day. I will post some pics and steps for any who are interested. FYI, these boxes are for in-wall speakers; not lights.
post #96 of 597
Just a work flow tip, When I'm working with full sheets of MDF I usually have the guy in the orange vest rip it in half or some other dimension that makes sense before leaving the store. The cut is free and it saves a whole lot of trouble wrestling full boards around. Particularly if you are working alone.
post #97 of 597
Thread Starter 
Thanks Big....I swear I saw that you posted this in another thread and I read it, but of course wasnt thinking when I was there. I will next time for sure
post #98 of 597
How many CFMs does the room need?, 384?

You said 4"; how many slots? What model number did you spec?

Tim
post #99 of 597
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

How many CFMs does the room need?, 384?
You said 4"; how many slots? What model number did you spec?
Tim

I went with 1 CFM per sq/ft. of room. My room is 320 sq/ft. DE has spec'd in his builds that a good target for air speed (FPM) is 250; which is ideal for dB levels. So to get my minimum of 320 CFM and the target air speed of 250 FPM I found the Nailor 49-240 bar diffusor. The diffusors can be purchased in a range of sizes, I went with 4" x 48". This model is rated at 384 CFM, According to the CFM/FPM calculator, this diffusor is spec'd at 240 FPM. The price is 188.00 per diffusor. There are 6 bars, and 7 slots; 0* deflection.

FYI, this is all an educated "best" guess on my part. I do not have any background in HVAC. If anyone has anything to add please do, this is simply my way of figuring out my cooling solution.
post #100 of 597
Barring an actual calculation, I would figure 1 CFM/sf + 15 CFM per person, which would be about 410 CFM.

If you want to use a 4 foot long diffuser, the one you specified can put out 424 CFM at NC17, which should be fine. Whether or not you'll get 424 CFM out of it would depend on the pressure of the system.

Overall, I think you specified a good choice smile.gif

Tim
post #101 of 597
Thread Starter 
Mr. Tim-

Not sure if you are building or are going to, but I will post some feedback when I get to that point in my construction. Thanks for weighing in.
post #102 of 597
Thread Starter 
So I completely scrapped yesterdays pieces. I just did not like the fact that everything didnt sit completely flush. It was too hard using the job site table saw. This morning I went over to my Father In-Law's shop and ripped the remaining 5 sheets to create this pile of very straight perfect fitting pieces
450

I only have 8 clamps so I am only gluing up 2 sides at a time
450

the plan....

If you take a look at the following pictures you will see one of the sides I am gluing together. The sides are 1.5" thick (3 layers of 1/2" MDF). I cut the two inside layers 1/2" short, which I will do all the way around. That way the opening of the backer box will have a recessed lip. I did this so that I can make a perfect fitting 1/2" cover that will sit flush. This cover will have the actual speaker attached to it. This way if I ever want to change speakers out in the future I can just replace the cover, not having to build a new box. Being that the box will be in the drywall, I will not have access to it again, so I have to future proof it as much as possible now. This will probably make more sense as I glue more pieces and get the first one built.
450

450

I have yet to decide how I will attach the cover to the box. The whole point is to be able to change this out if I upgrade surrounds. I know this will not be often, but there has to be a better way than just screwing it in. I may also have to put some type of foam stripping between the cover and the recessed lip so that there are not rattles, and of course a very snug fit to keep from rattling or making noise.

I am still working out how to attach this box to the framing. It needs to be decoupled, so I was thinking of using IB3 clips and build out some framework within the wall cavity so that I can attach from all sides. The boxes are going to be pretty heavy when done.

One last detail if anyone is interested. The depth of the box is 7". My wall is framed out 2" from the concrete wall. Those 2" + 3.5" (stud) + 1 5/8" (clips/DD) gives me 7 1/8" from the concrete wall to the top layer of DD. I have some room to play with as I will have two inches of treatment on the walls. This will give me 1.5 - 2" of space between the speaker and the GOM fabric on the wall.

FYI....I cant take credit for the design, TMcG threw me the idea, I hope I'm not sinking his good plan...lol
post #103 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

Mr. Tim-
Not sure if you are building or are going to, but I will post some feedback when I get to that point in my construction. Thanks for weighing in.

Yeah, I'm building too. It would be good to see how it works out for you. I think Nick used similar size.

I used a 24" 2-slot with a 6" supply. So I'll be the guinea pig for a smaller diffuser.

However, I must admit that I am all piped and wired for a mini split as well smile.gif

Tim
post #104 of 597
If I remember correctly, my diffusers are 4" x 36" with a 6" supply on each. When the air is running I don't hear anything, even when standing directly under the inlet. You should be fine with 48" diffusers.

Dave, I don't know f you have ordered yours already, but I had mine custom made to my specs and shipped directly from the manufacturer for about 1/3 of the price you listed. I'm sure 48" would be a bit more, but you probably could still save some money. PM me if you want more info.
post #105 of 597
Thread Starter 
Thanks Nick-

Just sent you a PM

btw....What did you do for a boot? Big posted his, that he build's which look to be a good way to go. Just curious what others have done.
post #106 of 597
Thread Starter 
On another not so good note. I scooped up 3 pieces of Walnut lumber to head over to the shop, I am trying to get the door frame built. When I got to the shop I saw that all three pieces were really bowed, I mean bad. Dont know how I missed that, wasnt even worth running through the Jointer. I hate to waste such clear Walnut. Oh well, I can always keep it around for the wainscoting trim.
post #107 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

Thanks Nick-
Just sent you a PM
btw....What did you do for a boot? Big posted his, that he build's which look to be a good way to go. Just curious what others have done.

My boot was built from wood - similar to Big. I will post some pics when I return home tomorrow.
post #108 of 597
Thread Starter 
The going is very, very slow. Considering I only have 8 clamps, this is going to take me two weeks. Drywall starts in about 10 days for the rest of the basement, I will do the HT at the same time.
post #109 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

The going is very, very slow. Considering I only have 8 clamps, this is going to take me two weeks. Drywall starts in about 10 days for the rest of the basement, I will do the HT at the same time.

...Or, buy more clamps. wink.gif
post #110 of 597
Thread Starter 
There is always a reason to buy more toys, clamps it is!
post #111 of 597
Thread Starter 
Speaker Backer Box 1 is complete. Only 3 more to go for surrounds and 1 deep box for the second sub.

All I can say is....they are easily 35lbs each

450

450

450

450

450

450

450

If anyone is interested.....

Each side is 3 layers of .50" MDF. Green Glue between each layers. Screwed and Glued together, and Green Glue acoustic calk on the seams.

The reason I made them so big was to future proof for different types of speakers. I am 99% sure that I am going with the Triad silver or bronze surrounds. They are about 13" x 13". Most other are a bit taller. I just wanted to leave my options open.
post #112 of 597
Thread Starter 
Another topic for the audio experts. Can someone tell me what a coffered ceiling can do for acoustic performance in a HT.
post #113 of 597
post #114 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

I am 99% sure that I am going with the Triad silver or bronze surrounds.

+1 on the Triads. I have several throughout my home and I love all of them.
post #115 of 597
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snickers1 View Post

sot sure if this will help http://www.asc-hifi.com/coffered-ceiling.htm

Thanks for that.

Bill-

Which triads do you have?

Also, the current plan is to secure the backer boxes using IB3 clips from the top bottom and side. I was going to frame it in and use the clips for isolation. Anyone see issues with that?
post #116 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

Thanks for that.
Bill-
Which triads do you have?
Also, the current plan is to secure the backer boxes using IB3 clips from the top bottom and side. I was going to frame it in and use the clips for isolation. Anyone see issues with that?

Certainly a belt and suspenders approach, but if your wall is already decoupled, how much of that additional vibration energy are you reducing by using the extra set of clips to mount the box vs. mounting it directly to the decoupled studded wall? Not quite sure of the real-life benefit.
post #117 of 597
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Certainly a belt and suspenders approach, but if your wall is already decoupled, how much of that additional vibration energy are you reducing by using the extra set of clips to mount the box vs. mounting it directly to the decoupled studded wall? Not quite sure of the real-life benefit.

It will be decoupled with clips/channel, my thought was that I didnt want to have the backer boxes which will be essentially holes in the "bubble" attached directly to the framed wall that I am decoupled from. I dont want that noise/vibration to leak through the backer box into the framing behind the wall. I am sure that it would be minimum, but I just dont want to take any chances.

You did pass me along some information on in-wall speakers, I just cant remember what it was but it was important. Maybe you will remember.
post #118 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

Thanks for that.
Bill-
Which triads do you have?

I have InWall Bronze for background music and InRoom Gold in my family room for TV and music in there.

I love the fact that the InWalls are totally sealed and the sound is really good. I was hoping for a little bit more bass, but given the size, I really can't complain. The Golds are just fantastic.
post #119 of 597
Thread Starter 
I would love the golds, but considering I have no equipment at all, I really dont want to spend so much on just speakers when I have to buy everything at once. I have heard nothing but great things about Triad in general. I am pretty set on going with the Silver LCR's and still on the fence concerning the surrounds. I'll probably just spend the little extra for the silvers. The price difference is really not that much.

Can you elaborate on how they are sealed? Do you mean that as far as sound leakage throughout the wall cavity? I know that my 5000lb backer boxes will help a ton, but it may have been a bit of overkill...lol
post #120 of 597
The Inwalls are made in a totally sealed box just like a normal in room speaker. Most in wall speakers will have an open back and utilize the stud cavity for air resistance, this can cause large variations in the actual sound produced. The Triads will sound the same regardless of the wall. This pic might help.

If you don't mind used speakers, here is a set of Gold LCR's that look pretty nice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triad-InRoom-Gold-Monitor-Speakers-3-11-400-Retail-/390437382390?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item5ae7e1a8f6#ht_2794wt_1058
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