Size vs. Quality? Sharp LC-80LE844U vs Panasonic TC-P65VT50 - Page 2

You do know that the SOE can be turned off don't you?? Do something, buy one or the other. Going back and forth like a yo yo is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

It exists for a reason. Before the 120/240 Hz LCDs came out there was no soap opera effect... but LCDs didn't handle motion very well. The whole motion interpolation thing was specifically an effort to make motion more fluid. The downside of the interpolation is the soap opera effect. The options with LCDs are either SOE or judder. Judder is less noticeable on some than others, but the Sharp LCDs aren't that great with judder.

Any thoughts if it's being used primarily to watch sports (basketball, football & baseball) in HD and some BR/3D movies? The room is 12x15 (seats are ~10 ft away) with a lot of light that can be dramatically reduced by closing the shudders. Size and PQ are equally important.

Even though the OP has made his choice there is one thing nobody has mentioned yet and that may be paramount to any of us still looking. Both technologies have displayed specific problems unique unto themselves. New Panasonic owners are still complaining about IR and burn-in. I'm talking about burn-in that has not gone away several weeks after. Also expert plasma owners are telling new owners that complain about buzzing to just live with it because that is the nature of the technology. Now that encompasses two very big concerns for anybody spending north of $2,000 for a plasma. The problem is, everybody does not have these problems. Which of course makes it a bit of a crap shoot on the buyers part. Some experience absolutely no buzzing and no IR. The conclusion is that maybe the quality control isn't so great. Now with LED lit LCD's like the Sharp many are complaining about clouding and flash lighting. According to the experts these problems come with the technology, especially the edge lit variety. Many have been returned and replaced and often, but not always, the problem persists. So here again it's a crap shoot for the buyer. Plasma or LCD? You're not just forced to roll the dice on technology but also on if you'll get lucky and get a good one. Sucks to be us.

Hopefully the OP is happy with the picture quality on the Sharp, because in my opinion I believe he made the right choice. Just based on the fact that the set will be used 75% of the time by his kids as well as video games I wouldn't recommend a plasma in this situation. Not to beat a dead horse, but I have owned several plasmas in the past, and after my burn-in issue with my Panny ST30 (among other issues), I can say burn-in is a real problem once again. Burn-in was never an issue on my older plasmas. Personally I would be paranoid about my kids watching a 4:3 show too long, pause a game too long or even watch one channel with a static logo for too long. Last fall I went from an LG plasma, then to a Panny ST30 and finally a Sharp 632 and each set has its own flaws, but other than black level, with the proper calibration the Sharp had an image almost as good as the ST30, plus no IR or burn-in worries anymore. Also, at least for the Sharps, the SOE is overblown because you can turn it off and judder is no worse than the ST30 I had. Oh, and speaking of SOE, the Panny had worse SOE on low than the Sharp on high for motion enhancements. I know I am talking about low end sets compared to this years VT series, but I think the basic principle still applies. Only warning on the Sharp with kids..........keep them away from Wiimotes or anything they might fling at the screen!

I had this feeling as well but that is because of the different bezel size. Your eyes are playing tricks on you. The difference between a 65" and 70" TV is only about ~17% (surface area). Not that big of a difference. But it is a difference.

If kids are involved and they will be gaming or if you have a dvr (just imagine them hitting pause and finding something else to do), I always recommend LED/LCD.

In your first post you said the set would be used by your kids for video games about 75% of the time. If this were not the case I'd be rooting for the VT50 really hard. If there's one thing that will cause IR or even outright burn-in on a plasma it's unsupervised kids playing video games, especially if they have a habit of pausing the game for hours at a time.

A little late to comment, but I saw a 65" GT50 Panny right next to an 80LE844 in Best Buy today. They were showing a special scene with sunflowers and bees. The Sharp looked absolutely amazing. The sunflowers just popped off the screen on the Sharp, but not on the Panny. There was a lot of yellow in the scene, and I guess the extra yellow pixel on the Sharp really made a difference. The yellow looked richer, less washed out. The image overall also looked sharper. When it went to a white screen, the Sharp was bright and clean. The Panny looked dim and yellowed. Plus the Panny had line bleed and HORRIBLE BURN IN of a BBC logo very visible. Ugh.

Last time I was in BestBuy, all the LE7xxx models looked inferior... but now they have all LE8xxx models, and they seem to be hugely improved. I walked away thinking Sharp had the best PQ in the store, along with Samsung. Last time, I thought Sharp has the worst PQ.

I'm really considering getting an 80LE844U now. I read a review on flatpanelshd of the latest 70" version that said the lag was only about 6ms higher than the Panny plasma! New LG was horrible for lag though.

I too will be using it for mostly video games, with an occasional weekly BluRay. Burn in scares me senseless as a result.

That's a flawed comparison. LCD TVs can push overall brightness levels much more than a plasma. However, if you tried to use the Best Buy wall settings on that Sharp in your living room it would be uncomfortably bright. Once you turn the brightness down to more normal levels, you lose a lot of the color and contrast. The Best Buy demos also don't show a great deal of natural-looking content like movies - most of what you see is of nature, artificial graphics, or sports.

Those TVs also aren't calibrated.

Mitsubishi L75-A9x might offer the best of both choices in one.


I know the OP has already made a decision, but especially in his circumstances, in a basement where the mitsubishi's less svelte form factor might not be as big an issue, kids playing games that much, & considering his pq/size requirements, 75" & they're all priced between the vt & elite. And without any motion handling or color (non)issues, dithering, burn in temporary ir. Just get your geometry & calibration right!

idk how often they're directly compared head to head vs. Elites & vt's, in the shootouts etc. but is number one tv in ukraine.

Mitsubishi tvs are considered the bottom of the barrel in regards to Reliability & Satisfaction according to PC World. http://www.pcworld.com/article/244561/hdtv_reliability_and_satisfaction_lg_is_the_brand_to_beat.html

The reality is the 2011 and 2012 Mits DLPs are very good, particularly the clear screen models. I have the 92" 2011 model and it is by far the best TV display I have ever owned. Honestly the Sharp 80s are uninspiring to say the least. I own all the various technologies I have a 60" class Panny in my bedroom.. Each has its place, the very large LCDs from Sharp might be the right solution if it meets the needs of a specific room.

If you judge DLP based rear projectors on the 2004 -2007 sets you are drastically understimating The newer Mitsubishi sets' reliability. BTW, the poster who had the 82837 Mits and then bought the Sharp missed out on the 2011 82840 which absolutely blows away his 2009 model amd the 80 inch Sharps.. Careful shoppers bought those 2011 clear screen 82" sets for $2k and less. The Sharp 80 is sad compared to the Mits 82840....If you have a very bright room with lots of windows, clearly LCD is an answer. If your lighting is more subdued and you need big, the really big clear screen Mits sets are terrific!

I don't consider 65" a big display anyway, no matter how good. If your viewing distance is initmate and the lighting reasonable the Panny V50 is a wonderful display.

So how do you explain PC World's lousy rating for Mitsubishi televisions???

http://www.pcworld.com/article/244561/hdtv_reliability_and_satisfaction_lg_is_the_brand_to_beat.html

Had no idea they were considered bottom of the barrel in that respect. Well in that case I guess they're really great so long as you get lucky & get one that works.

Mostly old data would be my thinking. Prior to 2008 Mits and the other makers had issues with some out of warranty failures on DlP chipsets. This occure mostly with 2006 and earlier Rear Projector DLPs from Samsung and others all got caught with DLP chips that failed with sticking mirrors. This was a TI problem. Mits handled their end of that problem quite graciously, not so much Samsung.Samsung tried to avoid those warranty replacements for a long time as the sets were for the most part several years out of warranty and Samsung only reacted when it was faced with a class action. They are replacing them now..

Mercedes Benz and all the German manufactures save maybe Porche had huge quality and reliabitlity issues 10 years ago, that does not mean you should not buy one of those brands today.

As to PC World and the value of its survey in regards to recent DLP Rear Projecotrs you have to know something about the data set to know how relevantt it is to current product. Most likely the data set is very weak on current product most likely we are talking non-current information and very small sample sizes. Also when a panel goes out, you are screwed end of the road. At least you can fix a DLP rear projecor.

I bought a 5 year extended warranty off the shelf from Costco for $99 after I bought my 92". I did not buy the display from them. I have 2 Mits sets, no problems. I have owned a 2008 Sammy 72 DLP, and a 2006 HP 65" DLP. All are in daily service. The HP I sold to the neighboor across the street, The Sammy is running every day at my brothers house. Ony the HP was problematical and that was in the begining. The Sammy must have 12000 hours on it now with not even a lamp change. My 2008 Mits 82 is at about 6K hours and on its second lamp without problems. My 2011 92" is approaching 3K hours already and I will likely change the lamp an annually. The lamps for the Mits are $99 and take all of 5 minutes to change if you have never done it before.

BTW, the only two displays I have had bad experiences with are an LG LED which could not sync to PCs through HDMII, it went back, and a Samsung Plasma on which the factory anti-glare treatment was so purple I could not bare to look at so it went back as well. Those weren't reliability issues but they came out zero in the satisfaction department. Neither of those experiences would keep me from buying either brand. Just for information purpose when I returned the Sammy and the LG I bought Panasonic, a Plasma and an LED. I have been happy with both.
Edited by gtgray - 8/1/12 at 10:19am

Ironically, after giving this a lot more thought, I'm leaning toward a 65" VT50 again. Only thing stopping me is that after 4 years of LCD use (previous TVs to that were Panny plasma also), I noticed slight flicker in every plasma I've looked at in the stores recently. So I'll have to track down a VT50 again and look for flicker. If I see, it I don't think I'll be able to deal with plasma. Of course, I'm also really tired of clouding, flashlighting, bad motion, lag, and crappy blacks. I'd be trading those for IR issues, line bleed, and possible flicker. I did a test with a home made cardboard cutout, and at my 9 foot distance, the 80" might be way too big.

This is nuts, I'm going to have to go spend a few hours in BestBuy again staring at floor models. Since I plan to upgrade again once 65"+ OLED sets become available and affordable, I'm not sure getting an expensive 80" now based on old tech makes any sense. And based on what I've heard about all other Sharps, the 80" is the only one I would have considered.

Oh, and you guys touting Mitsubishi DLP are CRAZY! Why? Geometry issues. My number one grievance with CRT monitors was always trying to get the geometry right, and having to deal with that kind of nightmare again is not my idea of fun.

Actually, geometry with the newer, large DLPs is pretty good. My concern with something like the Mits 92 inch is the vertical sweet spot. When I saw them in the showroom I found that you had to be right in the middle vertically to avoid unevenness of light.

Regarding the 80 inch at 9 feet, I would place more weight on viewing a display with images on it at 9 feet, rather than a cardboard cut out (which I'm sure you've done). A big piece of cardboard might just register visually as a ...big piece of cardboard.

As a believer in large, immersive displays...and with many friends who wish, after purchase, that they'd gone bigger...I always argue for size.

Flicker? I have no idea what you may be perceiving. I anticipate it's more related to store lighting than the plasma technology. There is literally no possible way to perceive flicker on a plasma display. The refresh rates are several orders of magnitude faster than human perception.

And geometry on DLPs isn't really a problem. With CRT sets you had 3 separate electron guns, each of which had to be aligned precisely and geometry-corrected through the manipulation of magnetic fields. DLPs have a single light source with a single chip.

The light fall off can be an issue, especially if the stand is too high. I assure you if you saw the 92" in a store you saw it on a stand that was way too high. Put the display on a 11 to 13" stand and put the lamp on bright and you should not be at all concerned with the size of the sweet spot.
Edited by gtgray - 8/9/12 at 8:38am

Plasmas run at 60Hz. That is NOT several orders of magnitude more than human perception! Or were you one of the ones who never noticed flicker when a CRT monitor is set to 60Hz? The 600Hz you hear about is a marketing BS number that refers to motion perception, and to compete with the high Hz numbers from LCD makers, which are only ever used to discuss motion. The plasma panel is NOT refreshed 600 times per second, but only 60. Or 96Hz in some 24p movie modes. The plasma tech is different enough to reduce the flicker, but not eliminate it like LCD does (even though LCD also runs at 60Hz without enhancements, the pixels are on or off, there is no rapid phosphor decay). The problem here is that if you've been conditioned to a rock steady LCD TV for a few years, you WILL notice some flicker on plasmas with bright scenes. Try googling plasma and flicker. Lots of hits.

That said, I still ordered a Samsung plasma. I'm hoping the other benefits of the set will outweigh the serious drawbacks LCDs still have and make me ignore or get used to the flicker. If you spend the majority of your waking life staring at LCD screens like I do (work monitor, TV, etc), then seeing flicker on a plasma on static bright screens will be inevitable.

It is really unfortunate, because I had plasmas from 04 to 08 and never noticed the flicker. Then I got an LCD TV, and now I see every plasma flicker. So either the LCD conditioned me to a very solid image, or plasma tech has gotten worse lately.
Edited by Flavius - 8/15/12 at 12:03am

No, they don't. Plasmas refresh their pixels at much higher rates than that. In fact, the latest Panasonic plasmas effectively refresh at 2500 Hz. CRTs have a single electron beam that can only update an entire screen so many times per second. Plasmas have no such limitation. Look up sub-field drive.

I'm a bit late to the party, but it might be worth investigating/waiting for the 80" LG which is about to be released. 4K means passive 3D at full 1080p resolution with cheap glasses. If you're a gamer, it might be a better compromise. LGs have great calibration features which allows to get the best out of the set, like the panny.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The screen is only refreshed at 60Hz! No output device to the TV sends screen refresh data more than 60 times a second. What part of that don't you understand? 600Hz/2500Hz its all marketing mumbo jumbo referring to perceived MOTION fluidity. If the screen were refreshed at 2500Hz or even 600Hz, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE would EVER see a plasma flicker. But that just isn't the case. Google it for crap's sake! You're right that the plasma is fast, and shows fast motion well. But it is precisely that ability for the phosphors to decay so quickly that causes FLICKER, because there is a 1/60th of a second wait before the plasma TV receives the next round of signal data from any HDMI input!

The image itself is only changed 60 times a second. The pixels themselves are updated much faster than that. The pixels in a plasma are pulsed hundreds or thousands of times per second.

This is why plasmas don't flicker. I'm not sure what you're perceiving. It might be jutter. But it's definitely not flicker.

Well, if you don't see it, it must not exist in your universe. Congratulations, you are very lucky. But for those of us who DO see it, it is real.

If the Sammy plasma I'm getting tomorrow flickers like the plasmas in the stores, it's getting returned. I know what judder is, it was not judder, it was strobe light full screen extremely rapid flickering as you'd see on a 60HZ CRT computer monitor.

Google plasma and flicker, I am not the only one who sees this.

Flicker and likely buzzing doesnt sound like plasma will work for you

I agree I am in awe when I watch blurays on my Sharp 70" over and over again. This is coming from a previous 5 Panasonic Plasmas in my house owner. I now prefer the Sharp.