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The true purpose of the relaunch? - Page 6

post #151 of 186
Since I was rather vocal publicly about my unhappiness regarding the switch to Huddler, it's also fair that I go public to eat a little bit of crow.

Upon discovering the switch to Huddler, my initial reaction was to immediately remember the negative impact that Huddler change had on Home Theater Forum. To this day, I still don't like visiting HTF.

However, after exchanging a few private messages with David, I decided to try (as best I could) to take an unbiased approach toward how things had changed here at AVS Forum. I was somewhat rude to David in my private messages, yet David responded with patience and friendliness. The same patience that he's managed to display in most of his messages here in the public forum. David's demeanor is the biggest reason I decided to give AVS Forum a "second chance" these last several days.

My current opinion: The changes to the forum are not as dramatic or negative as the Huddle change impact on HTF. In fact, when you take the time to really just use the forum, the Huddler folks have managed to replicate the feel of the previous AVS Forum to a fair degree. There is a level of comfortable familiarity to be found, once I opened my eyes and mind to seeing it.

Bottom line: I'm getting around and posting to the forum just fine. Sure, I still miss the look and feel of the previous layout. But the "pain" of the change is growing less and less. The new layout is starting to be the familiar one.

David, Please accept my apologies for my rude messages and public outcries. I applaud you for your patience during this whole thing. It is quite obvious that you truly do care about the members here.

Regards,

Mark
post #152 of 186
David has a right to at the minimum, generate enough income to break even .. if he makes a profit, that's great ..

AVS will not support itself with paying members .. and AVS is one, if not the, best sources of info in it's field that we have ..

The vast majority of folks are using the site free, and that's fine .. however, it is not free for an owner to maintain a site .. especially one this large ..

David did what he needed to do, it is his choice and I believe we should respect him for that choice ..

If AVS has ever answered just one question for you, or helped solve just one problem, or allowed you to interact with like minded individuals, AVS has done you a service ..

We are all resistant to change .. in a year, if the site reverted back to the old format, an equal number of folks would initially dislike it ..
post #153 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

From what I was told is this was done on purpose to save the space seeing it is only as a reference to what was posted. (Be it right or wrong I guess is a personal preference.)

I think this is a big deal, it looks terrible and makes replies difficult to read, especially long posts.

Please ask them to correct this, i don't think it's personal preference, we wouldn't do this to a news article or a blog on the internet.
post #154 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Since I was rather vocal publicly about my unhappiness regarding the switch to Huddler, it's also fair that I go public to eat a little bit of crow.

Thanks Mark. Keep safe.
post #155 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

David has a right to at the minimum, generate enough income to break even .. if he makes a profit, that's great ..

AVS will not support itself with paying members .. and AVS is one, if not the, best sources of info in it's field that we have ..

The vast majority of folks are using the site free, and that's fine .. however, it is not free for an owner to maintain a site .. especially one this large ..

David did what he needed to do, it is his choice and I believe we should respect him for that choice ..

If AVS has ever answered just one question for you, or helped solve just one problem, or allowed you to interact with like minded individuals, AVS has done you a service ..

We are all resistant to change .. in a year, if the site reverted back to the old format, an equal number of folks would initially dislike it ..

We all also have to consider that the site is probably infinitely easier for David and others to manage and support with the back end stuff now on the servers at Huddler.

The old platform had to be supported in house and that had not only to be a burden but also was getting a bit creaky and exposed the site more and more to attack each and every day.more and more as time went along.

Gaining a bit of revenues and new users is probably nice but having a more robust support infrastructure and support staff for reliability of the site just being up and maintained was also a major consideration I'm sure.
post #156 of 186
Hey. the quoted post above did not crush the line spacings! cool.gif
post #157 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

One of the main problems I see is that quoting is 'crushing' the line spacing in the original message.

It's destroying the carriage returns and all the quoted text is flattened. This makes reading replies a bit difficult, especially if someone took the time to put in correct spacing for easier ready.

Is this being addressed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

From what I was told is this was done on purpose to save the space seeing it is only as a reference to what was posted. (Be it right or wrong I guess is a personal preference.)

I think this is a big deal, it looks terrible and makes replies difficult to read, especially long posts.

Please ask them to correct this, i don't think it's personal preference, we wouldn't do this to a news article or a blog on the internet.

Looks like this got corrected today!smile.gifeek.giftongue.gif
post #158 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Looks like this got corrected today!smile.gifeek.giftongue.gif

excellent, this was driving me nuts. Now all the replies don't look like a run-on sentence.

thanks to the forum mods for fixing this.
post #159 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Since I was rather vocal publicly about my unhappiness regarding the switch to Huddler, it's also fair that I go public to eat a little bit of crow.

Upon discovering the switch to Huddler, my initial reaction was to immediately remember the negative impact that Huddler change had on Home Theater Forum. To this day, I still don't like visiting HTF.

However, after exchanging a few private messages with David, I decided to try (as best I could) to take an unbiased approach toward how things had changed here at AVS Forum. I was somewhat rude to David in my private messages, yet David responded with patience and friendliness. The same patience that he's managed to display in most of his messages here in the public forum. David's demeanor is the biggest reason I decided to give AVS Forum a "second chance" these last several days.

My current opinion: The changes to the forum are not as dramatic or negative as the Huddle change impact on HTF. In fact, when you take the time to really just use the forum, the Huddler folks have managed to replicate the feel of the previous AVS Forum to a fair degree. There is a level of comfortable familiarity to be found, once I opened my eyes and mind to seeing it.

Bottom line: I'm getting around and posting to the forum just fine. Sure, I still miss the look and feel of the previous layout. But the "pain" of the change is growing less and less. The new layout is starting to be the familiar one.

David, Please accept my apologies for my rude messages and public outcries. I applaud you for your patience during this whole thing. It is quite obvious that you truly do care about the members here.

Regards,

Mark

Mark - This is a pretty big step for you - but a good one - and I just want you to know that I appreciated it. I too started out as somewhat of a "doubting thomas" - but after about an hour, I got so carried away with trying to figure out where everything was that I discovered I was actually having fun. So I had an attitude adjustment and decided to promote the positive end of things and just see where it leads. What I've been most impressed with is the constant support and response to feedback [mostly negative] both Dave and the Huddler team have exhibited - with cool heads, I might add. It's almost as if they anticipated the heartache this change was going to cause and put themselves in the line of fire - hoping that good intentions would ultimately prevail. I've noticed that everyday Dave's name is listed with the most posts for the previous day. That told me that he's out there looking for issues to resolve and doing it in a calm and collected manner. I'm just not so sure you could ask for more. So hopefully you're getting contagious and everyone is getting the warmnfuzzies and we can continue discussing the hobby that excites our passion.
Edited by javry - 6/17/12 at 8:33am
post #160 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

excellent, this was driving me nuts. Now all the replies don't look like a run-on sentence.
thanks to the forum mods for fixing this.

spoke too soon, it's broken again here and in the 3K+ projector forum as well.
post #161 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

spoke too soon, it's broken again here and in the 3K+ projector forum as well.

When I had read it was "fixed", I kind of thought to myself....Hummmm. For I have not heard anything about any fix for it coming. Maybe it has to do with how posts were made originally. Rich Text Editor vs BB editor and then the editor a person is using when they quoted text.
post #162 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

spoke too soon, it's broken again here and in the 3K+ projector forum as well.

When I had read it was "fixed", I kind of thought to myself....Hummmm. For I have not heard anything about any fix for it coming. Maybe it has to do with how posts were made originally. Rich Text Editor vs BB editor and then the editor a person is using when they quoted text.

Is it only like that for the older posts that were using quoted text before the change was made?

Perhaps newer posts are keeping the line spacing intact in the quoted sections?

I'm using the BB code editor and all my new posts that use quotes are keeping the quoted text line spacing intact on any new posts I create.
post #163 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post


When I had read it was "fixed", I kind of thought to myself....Hummmm. For I have not heard anything about any fix for it coming. Maybe it has to do with how posts were made originally. Rich Text Editor vs BB editor and then the editor a person is using when they quoted text.

 

Correct - this happens when posts are quoted by the two editors - the different code does not always play nice.  I also believe that the "remove nested quotes" option in preferences effects this.

 

2012-06-18_1153.png

 

Try unchecking that and seeing if it makes a difference for you.

post #164 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHuddler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post


When I had read it was "fixed", I kind of thought to myself....Hummmm. For I have not heard anything about any fix for it coming. Maybe it has to do with how posts were made originally. Rich Text Editor vs BB editor and then the editor a person is using when they quoted text.

 

Correct - this happens when posts are quoted by the two editors - the different code does not always play nice.  I also believe that the "remove nested quotes" option in preferences effects this.

 

2012-06-18_1153.png

 

Try unchecking that and seeing if it makes a difference for you.

 

I can confirm that it's the "Remove nested quotes" in the User Profile that causes the loss of spacing in Quotes.

 

I tried with each editor and both lost spacing with "Remove nested quotes" checked.

 

(I refreshed the page after each Profile change just to be sure the change "took." Tested with FF and WIN XP.)

post #165 of 186

I bumped the old ticket on this to see if we can get it fixed, but in the short term, that's the workaround.  Thanks for verifying.

post #166 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHuddler View Post

I bumped the old ticket on this to see if we can get it fixed, but in the short term, that's the workaround.  Thanks for verifying.

 

It might be better to eliminate that option, leaving only the nested quotes since people like spaces between paragraphs and can edit any extraneous extra quoted posts if they want.

 

The new feature that Quoting brings everything along with it, including quotes within the Quote, is a GOOD thing in my book. If I don't want the quoted Quote, I'll delete it, but I think most people would want ALL the quoted stuff auto-delivered n their Reply!?

 

It's very cool now with that Profile box unchecked.

post #167 of 186

Totally depends on the user - some really like that feature.  I think we should just fix it so that the line breaks are not removed in this manner.

post #168 of 186
Quote:
The old platform had to be supported in house and that had not only to be a burden but also was getting a bit creaky and exposed the site more and more to attack each and every day.more and more as time went along.

Gaining a bit of revenues and new users is probably nice but having a more robust support infrastructure and support staff for reliability of the site just being up and maintained was also a major consideration I'm sure.


Here's one for you SJHuddler - I was going through my subscriptions hoping to clean them up and get rid of some that haven't been active for sometime or that are simply irrelevant anymore. I noticed that in the "Edit Subscription" page, there is nothing that displays the date of the last post on a particular thread and by whom. If that info was there, it would help in deciding whether to keep the subscription or let it go. Like many others, I'm still getting used to the new launch so it's possible that I'm over-looking something here. Your thoughts?
post #169 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Quote:
The old platform had to be supported in house and that had not only to be a burden but also was getting a bit creaky and exposed the site more and more to attack each and every day.more and more as time went along.
Gaining a bit of revenues and new users is probably nice but having a more robust support infrastructure and support staff for reliability of the site just being up and maintained was also a major consideration I'm sure.
Here's one for you SJHuddler - I was going through my subscriptions hoping to clean them up and get rid of some that haven't been active for sometime or that are simply irrelevant anymore. I noticed that in the "Edit Subscription" page, there is nothing that displays the date of the last post on a particular thread and by whom. If that info was there, it would help in deciding whether to keep the subscription or let it go. Like many others, I'm still getting used to the new launch so it's possible that I'm over-looking something here. Your thoughts?

Change from the edit tab to the thread tab and you'll see it.
post #170 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Quote:
The old platform had to be supported in house and that had not only to be a burden but also was getting a bit creaky and exposed the site more and more to attack each and every day.more and more as time went along.
Gaining a bit of revenues and new users is probably nice but having a more robust support infrastructure and support staff for reliability of the site just being up and maintained was also a major consideration I'm sure.
Here's one for you SJHuddler - I was going through my subscriptions hoping to clean them up and get rid of some that haven't been active for sometime or that are simply irrelevant anymore. I noticed that in the "Edit Subscription" page, there is nothing that displays the date of the last post on a particular thread and by whom. If that info was there, it would help in deciding whether to keep the subscription or let it go. Like many others, I'm still getting used to the new launch so it's possible that I'm over-looking something here. Your thoughts?

Change from the edit tab to the thread tab and you'll see it.

So is there a way to remove a subscription while in the "Threads" tab then?
post #171 of 186
I would think the easiest thing to do if filtering by last post date is to click on the thread & then click on the Unsubscribe button that appears at the top of the thread page.
post #172 of 186
ok - thanks
post #173 of 186
I'm curious...is this the type of 45% additional traffic that Huddler is bringing the forum with new members? Does this add to or take away from the collective forum?

Hello i have got a Panasonic DVD HOME THEATER SOUND SYSTEM MODEL SC-HT855 but the remote can no longer work the machine so i have to use the front panel,does any one know if i can replace the DVD with a Blue Ray Home Theater player please ?
I have also got a Panasonic plasma television model TH-37PX60B and a Panasonic dvd recorder model DMR-ES15EB/EBL
I did phone Richer Sounds and they said i should replace the whole lot,but it is only the dvd machine and remote that is not working.
Thank you.
Edited by XXXXX- 6/18/12 at 12:12pm
post #174 of 186
I think you missed my point...I wasn't talking about the new features or learning curve. Since the launch, I've noticed an increasing amount of posts similar to the one cited above. I came to AVS years ago because the forum seemed to be more advanced than what I could find elsewhere. I know one of the selling points of the new platform is increased traffic. Will that increased traffic help or dilute the forum? I've never had to wade through threads before on here, but am having to now.... maybe I'm the only one..and if so then no worries.
post #175 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

I think you missed my point...I wasn't talking about the new features or learning curve. Since the launch, I've noticed an increasing amount of posts similar to the one cited above. I came to AVS years ago because the forum seemed to be more advanced than what I could find elsewhere. I know one of the selling points of the new platform is increased traffic. Will that increased traffic help or dilute the forum? I've never had to wade through threads before on here, but am having to now.... maybe I'm the only one..and if so then no worries.

I understand...and deleted my response

let me look into this some more

Mark
post #176 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

I'm curious...is this the type of 45% additional traffic that Huddler is bringing the forum with new members? Does this add to or take away from the collective forum?
Hello i have got a Panasonic DVD HOME THEATER SOUND SYSTEM MODEL SC-HT855 but the remote can no longer work the machine so i have to use the front panel,does any one know if i can replace the DVD with a Blue Ray Home Theater player please ?
Edited by XXXXX- 6/18/12 at 12:12pm

Right, it's exactly this kind of noob traffic (that annoys those who are most helpful) that Huddler brings in.

It's worse for forums than no traffic in some ways because it either:
-burns folks out when they constantly answer these questions and the OP never reads them, never replies to them, and never contributes anything down the road
-Nobody answers them because they are either so specific to the OP's set of wants needs and biases or because they have been posted with so little forethought that everyone who reads it knows that the OP is either an idiot or won't be back.

And its even WORSE because Huddler search sucks so bad that motivated new members can't even get answers to their specific questions because Huddler chokes on more than a single search term.
post #177 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post

I use my iPad for AVS every day. In fact, I'm using it right now.

Enjoying those tooltips?
post #178 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadath View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

I'm curious...is this the type of 45% additional traffic that Huddler is bringing the forum with new members? Does this add to or take away from the collective forum?
Hello i have got a Panasonic DVD HOME THEATER SOUND SYSTEM MODEL SC-HT855 but the remote can no longer work the machine so i have to use the front panel,does any one know if i can replace the DVD with a Blue Ray Home Theater player please ?
Edited by XXXXX- 6/18/12 at 12:12pm

Right, it's exactly this kind of noob traffic (that annoys those who are most helpful) that Huddler brings in.

It's worse for forums than no traffic in some ways because it either:
-burns folks out when they constantly answer these questions and the OP never reads them, never replies to them, and never contributes anything down the road
-Nobody answers them because they are either so specific to the OP's set of wants needs and biases or because they have been posted with so little forethought that everyone who reads it knows that the OP is either an idiot or won't be back.

And its even WORSE because Huddler search sucks so bad that motivated new members can't even get answers to their specific questions because Huddler chokes on more than a single search term.

I checked on the one I responded to and it was indeed flagged but had not yet been removed so that was my mistake: but good in that I brought this to the attention of Administrators

in the future please do not respond as I did: just report the post for mods to look at: we will try to figure this out
post #179 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadath View Post

......
And its even WORSE because Huddler search sucks so bad that motivated new members can't even get answers to their specific questions because Huddler chokes on more than a single search term.

And even WORSE than that...

AVS "Pros" that may WANT to help, but would rather point to a six month or year-old post (that they know exists) rather than wasting 20 minutes typing a "new" answer, can't find the old post either. Thanks to the severely deficient Huddler search.
post #180 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadath View Post

Right, it's exactly this kind of noob traffic (that annoys those who are most helpful) that Huddler brings in.
It's worse for forums than no traffic in some ways because it either:
-burns folks out when they constantly answer these questions and the OP never reads them, never replies to them, and never contributes anything down the road
-Nobody answers them because they are either so specific to the OP's set of wants needs and biases or because they have been posted with so little forethought that everyone who reads it knows that the OP is either an idiot or won't be back.
And its even WORSE because Huddler search sucks so bad that motivated new members can't even get answers to their specific questions because Huddler chokes on more than a single search term.

As a long time member and now a moderator for several years...I can understand and appreciate your concern about balance for those of us who visit everyday vs the occasional member or newbie whose purpose is to resolve a one time HT issue/problem. I can only speak for myself. In the forums I moderate I try to merge those threads seeking very general questions (shotgun approach) and those who are asking about an established product (PS3)...with those existing threads that cover these topics (or owner's thread's for a specific model). My goal is to keep the "front pages" interesting to those who visit everyday, but still helpful to new members or the occasional member. I know other mods try to establish that same balance. It's tough to do...while still helping and appealing to the over million members we have at AVS. Sometimes responding with how to use the search engine (advance search, title search only, limit search words to one or two) in the vein of teaching someone to fish vs feeding them is an appropriate response (if done in a helpful manner) to those that obviously haven't attempted a search.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I did want to respond and let you and others know we, as mods, recognize the balance of keeping AVS interesting and helpfull to all members.

Ron
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