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Pivos XIOS-DS Media Play! : The *Semiofficial* Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

The the XIOS isn't a media player then. It just a tablet in a box?

Well, you have a point, its best called "a smart TV enabler" IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post

I have a feeling you're in the minority. Going back to stereo for movies is like going back in time a decade. Some people won't mind but for niche players like these I think most likely will...could be wrong.
Well I have to agree, though for many would just do fine by simulated 5.1 (PLII) from an AVR, but I agree this is indeed a deal breaker for many, but also there are many who don't have an AVR hooked up to every TV they have wink.gif

That said, I know the hardware is already licensed DD 5.1 (but its not enabled on current kernel) and they are waiting for proper licensing on DTS 5.1.
Edited by aasoror - 7/17/12 at 2:06pm
post #62 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

@assoror
Where are the specs? Such as the type of remote that ships with the unit, fan, memory and so on ...
I see nowhere where they state that XBMC will ship with hardware acceleration on the current unit. In other words I am saying there is almost no firm information about it.
Philip

I don't know exactly who manufacturers the chips inside (RAM/FLASH .. etc), but the published specs are:
Quote:
CPU:ARM Cortex A9
GPU: Open GL(Mali-400)
RAM: 512MB DDR2
Storage: 2GB NAND Flash
The unit is passively cooled (no fan) and ships with an IR remote (I think its RC6).

For XBMC hardware acceleration its already right there in the official XBMC announcement ..
Quote:
As Pivos sponsored a large portion of the port, we were able to work with their vendors to achieve buttery-smooth hardware-accelerated playback on the XIOS DS.

And here is how it was done
Quote:
With Xios DS, we can use an amlogic based library that exists on android to skip OpenMax and go direct to hw decode/renderer. But because of how the lib works and API constraints, we had to do an internal player that works using the same API that our internal dvdplayer uses. While not 'perfect', it gets the job done.

With 'generic' android, we must use OpenMax which is hiding in android's private API. To use this we actually have to create an OpenMax-IL layer that talks to this private API. We could use something called OpenMax-AL but that only handles h264 in a transport stream... period. That means no mkv's, no nothing but h264 in a transport stream. Pretty limited. Same thing with Android's Media Player Class, h264 in a transport stream. boring as we don't want to rely on some big box doing transcoding like others, we want a real media center, right ?
post #63 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasoror View Post

but also there are many who don't have an AVR hooked up to every TV they have wink.gif

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I wouldn't be concerned for my bedroom TV either. smile.gif
post #64 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post

I have a feeling you're in the minority. Going back to stereo for movies is like going back in time a decade. Some people won't mind but for niche players like these I think most likely will...could be wrong.

+1
post #65 of 235
@aasoror

I still see no statement from Pivos that XBMC will ship with the current hardware. What you have is an XBMC statement about what was used in development and that Pivos is now a sponsor. In the Pivos Forums they were asked if the hardware would change on the Xios DS ( more RAM, more storage). There was no direct answer. I guess it's too early for specifics. Buttery smooth by XBMC developers is reassuring, I guess.


The remote is not mentioned anywhere. Are they expecting you to hook up a wireless keyboard? These are just minor issues but it comes across as less than reassuring. Not as bad as the raspberry pi hype but it's along those lines. Many people don lt want a hacking machine. They want something that works, has specs, etc ...

When you get a Roku you know exactly what you are getting. By the way, 2gigs of storage ram is not a whole lot ( the atv3 has 8).

It does sound neat, but I am still not clear where all this fits in with GTV.

philip
post #66 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

Things just got Way more interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://xbmc.org/theuni/2012/07/13/xbmc-for-android/

This sounds good in principle. On the other hand look what happened to Boxee. I suspect XBMC won't be able to run unconstrained on any box which has access to premium content. Will they start restricting it like the Boxee people did in order to gain access. If the boxes don't have access to premium content then that leaves out 1/2 your market. A good part of the remaining market wants players which are far more powerful.

philip
post #67 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

I still see no statement from Pivos that XBMC will ship with the current hardware.
Because non was made wink.gif, just to be clear there is two XBMC'es here and 2 XIOS'es as well, XBMC for Android, which will eventually be an APK available on the GooglePlay store, this will then be included as a part of the optional apps available for the XIOS-DS.

And then there is the XIOS-XS with the non-android XBMC port, specs about that box was not disclosed yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
In the Pivos Forums they were asked if the hardware would change on the Xios DS ( more RAM, more storage). There was no direct answer.
The XIOS-DS wont be changed, its the XIOS-XS specs that remains TBA (mainly due to competition considerations).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
The remote is not mentioned anywhere.
A minimalistic IR remote with navigation keys, volume up and down, home, return and a power button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
Are they expecting you to hook up a wireless keyboard?
Its a personal preference, the remote would barely allow you to open the media playback apps and run your video files and thats about it.
To use the box to its potentials you need (at least) a pointing device. Pivos opted for offering a gyroscopic controller as an optional accessory instead of jacking up the price of the box by $20 and including the motion based remote with the box. That said, my Lenovo thumb keyboard/mouse combo beats wins hands down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
Many people don lt want a hacking machine. They want something that works, has specs, etc ...
But its not a hacking machine, its just an Android based box (with all Android glory and pitfalls).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
By the way, 2gigs of storage ram is not a whole lot ( the atv3 has 8).
I would say 8GB is seriously lacking for a box like ATV3 without any options for expanding (no flash card reader and no USB slots).
The XIOS-DS 2GB is usually enough for app storage, but you have an option for an additional 32GB with mSD slot and infinite storage with 3 USB ports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

I suspect XBMC won't be able to run unconstrained on any box which has access to premium content.
How important whether or not the Hulu/NF XBMC plugins are working or blocked when one can just minimize the running XBMC android app and fire up the Hulu or NF android app whenever one feels the need to ?
Edited by aasoror - 7/18/12 at 2:06am
post #68 of 235
Well the Xios-XS box sounds like that is the one that is interesting, but it's not Android?

If various Addons for XBMC are blocked then the WAF goes to zero. You want something that just works. Is there a Netflix app that works now for the Xios DS? Hulu+? What about Hulu via the browser?

I use the Lenovo Multimedia Keyboard (2nd gen with backlit keys) with my Shuttle. Works great. An option like that would be nice. So would these Wii like remotes, but I still can't find a page listing the options and prices.

8 gigs is more than enough for the ATV. There just aren't that many apps that work well on a TV. My Revue had almost no apps of interest and I suspect the Sony GTV will be similar. The problem is the I/o issue. What works on a phone or tablet doesn't translate well to the TV.

Many of us love XBMC and Plex. I wonder if XBMC has a broader appeal? It has a lot of strange ways, though Eden is much better.

Does the current Xios DS run Plex as well as a Roku does? The Roku Plex is really nice though it occasionally feels underpowered.

Philip
post #69 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post


I have a feeling you're in the minority. Going back to stereo for movies is like going back in time a decade. Some people won't mind but for niche players like these I think most likely will...could be wrong.

Perhaps, but there are quite a few people now watching TV on the iPad with stereo sound. There are a lot of people using sound bars with the sound coming from the front but still managing to give you an immersive experience depending on the room. When I go to the symphony the cello players are not sitting in the back of the room!

Philip
post #70 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Well it remains to be seen how well XBMC works on these underpowered players. In addition XBMC may take years to work properly. They didn't announce any kind of timeframe. In addition there is the question of access to premium content. I hardly think content providers will allow access to their content unless there are real constraints on the boxes. Look at what happened to Boxee.
I actually really liked the Logitech Revue when I had it. I don't know much about Pivos. Tried to find out what came with their Xios-DS but it is well hidden on their sight. It all sounds like promises at this point.
I do hope GTV doesn't fade away. There will be a $100 box from Vizio so that might help. It would be nice if they used the latest Android OS though.
Philip

XBMC developers have already said that XBMC for android is running buttery smooth on the Pivos XIOS, the other android devices maybe be a bit to be as refined as the current releases they are offering today. This is the quote from the XBMC article:

"Though, there is one exception. As Pivos sponsored a large portion of the port, we were able to work with their vendors to achieve buttery-smooth hardware-accelerated playback on the XIOS DS. It remains to be seen if such hardware-specific features will make it into XBMC mainline or exist as patches for vendors to integrate."
post #71 of 235
@aasoror

The gyroscopic controller sounds interesting. Can that be ordered? Does it require plugging in something into the USB ports? How much is it? I can't find it anywhere on the Pivos site. In fact you seem to be the only person who knows about it!

Does the Plex app that is available from Google Play support Direct Play on the Xios-DS? It looks similar to the GTV app.

Other than the price and the lack of root access of the Sony GTV what would be the main differences?

Philip
post #72 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

@aasoror
The gyroscopic controller sounds interesting. Can that be ordered? Does it require plugging in something into the USB ports? How much is it? I can't find it anywhere on the Pivos site. In fact you seem to be the only person who knows about it!

Depending on your location, its available at many retailers .. google for PGTMCXDALU-WRMT (and it takes one USB port for the transmitter).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815645004
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=72574
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_567&item_id=048574
http://www.computers-canada.ca/store/products/1027016467/PGTMCXDALU-WRMT/Pivos%20Technology%20Group%20Inc./
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pmcd 
Does the Plex app that is available from Google Play support Direct Play on the Xios-DS? It looks similar to the GTV app.
What do you mean by direct play ? Plex android module allows access to the media locations registered on the Plex server running on the network (plus the internet media channels supported by Plex).
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pmcd 
Other than the price and the lack of root access of the Sony GTV what would be the main differences?
I don't have a Sony GTV to comment on that (though if everything is similar these 2 features alone are enough)
post #73 of 235
Hi,
Does the xbmc work with h/w accel on ICS on xios ds.
From this video, it runs to be very smooth on GB 2.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVG3hk_jguA

Thx
post #74 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikdmon View Post

Hi,
Does the xbmc work with h/w accel on ICS on xios ds.
From this video, it runs to be very smooth on GB 2.3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVG3hk_jguA
Thx

Yup, the XBMC is going to release a working APK around the weekend or early next week.
post #75 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasoror View Post

What do you mean by direct play ? Plex android module allows access to the media locations registered on the Plex server running on the network (plus the internet media channels supported by Plex).
I don't have a Sony GTV to comment on that (though if everything is similar these 2 features alone are enough)

By direct play I mean if the client supports the codecs then no transcoding is done. Typically the video won't be re-encoded but perhaps the audio might be. This results is basically native playback. Another possibility is if a client doesn't support a container type but supports the way the video and/or audio are encoded then Plex will switch containers on the fly. This happens for example on the Roku and ATV2.

The Sony comes with a neat remote that is wii like, has a keyboard on one side (backlit) and a simple remote on the other. It has Bluetooth built in I believe along with wireless N and ethernet.

The video of You Tube on the web playing XBMC on the Xios-DS is pretty neat.

As far as the input options with the links you provided, are those described anywhere on the Pivox site? How did you get the name?

philip
post #76 of 235
Halflite is running a thread on AVS titled "Sigma XBMC Turnkey to come" He should probably reveal that fact before posting here. Or not. Or maybe Sigma will be the new Pivos direction in th eir new XS. Either way what about the China developed Eaget line of Networked media players that are already available and running Sigma 8655 processor. Unsure about the UI, but it looks adequate. Your price is better and I will certainly keep watching for the Pivos announcement. At any rate For now I am not going to spring for the build your own box running high priced cpu, etc.
post #77 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

By direct play I mean if the client supports the codecs then no transcoding is done.
I have not seen a "disable transcode" option on the android client, only a "set quality" option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd 
As far as the input options with the links you provided, are those described anywhere on the Pivox site? How did you get the name?
The Pivos flash site is lacking, they are working on a new portal.
The name of the remote ? you mean PGTMCXDALU-WRMT ? its listed in the specs at most of the site where its offered.
post #78 of 235
Installing ICS and XBMC experience, not very successful at playback, but early days:
http://blog.insanegenius.com/2012/07/22/xbmc-for-android-on-pivos-xios-ds/

P.
post #79 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptr727 View Post

Installing ICS and XBMC experience, not very successful at playback, but early days:
http://blog.insanegenius.com/2012/07/22/xbmc-for-android-on-pivos-xios-ds/
P.

Read your informative blog. You are a good writer. Looking forward to other entries.
post #80 of 235
For those interested in the RF remote - I picked up the DS and RF remote from Newegg. From the remote control aspect, it is very disappointing. The IR remote, which comes with the DS and the RF remote, purchased seperately, have the exact same button layout, except the RF remote buttons do not match the IR buttons in functionality. In fact they do completly differant things! The IR remote has a standard D-Pad arrow layout where the RF remote has HOME, BACK ETC, in place of the arrows. I get that the arrows shouldn't be needed because of the gryo-mouse control, but you can't scroll all pages in settings and the like without the arrow keys. So now you need to use both remotes! Also the RF remote doesn't have a power button, it's a lock button where the IR remote does have a power button. This design makes no sense ...

This in and of it self is almost a deal breaker for me. It is way too clumsy to operate. However it is very responseve and the screen adjustments work real nice for over/under scan. XBMC's current release doesn't use the mouse control as yet only the arrow keys found on the IR remote. If I decide to actually use this device it will need a mouse/keyboard combo to use it, as there are some nice ones available. I did hook up a generic mouse and keyboard which did work fine.
post #81 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

I get that the arrows shouldn't be needed because of the gryo-mouse control, but you can't scroll all pages in settings and the like without the arrow keys. So now you need to use both remotes! Also the RF remote doesn't have a power button, it's a lock button where the IR remote does have a power button. This design makes no sense ...

You don't need to use both remote, the XIOS Sense is supposed to mimic "touch controls" so there is no "scrolling" instead you are supposed to "swipe down/up" to do so just press ok while moving the mouse up/down.

True about the missing shutdown button, but the XIOS is not an IR remote so a shutdown button wouldn't have worked to powerup the box any way, to power down the XIOS I use this widget: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.destil.fixbrokenpb
and to reboot the box I use this widget: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.schreinerDev.rebootwidget
post #82 of 235
Just a very informal opinion based on reading reviews of people who have bought this unit and the current preliminary state of it all. I don't think this is ready for prime time. When everything is running on it ( especially XBMC) and we get a formal review of it this just sounds like a very underpowered unit that isn't worth the price.

I really that aasoror has provided invaluable information and perhaps he has been able to get it working well but there are just too many negative opinions out there. Moreover, it's really not clear that Google TV or this is going to succeed in the TV market.

philip
post #83 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Just a very informal opinion based on reading reviews of people who have bought this unit and the current preliminary state of it all. I don't think this is ready for prime time. When everything is running on it ( especially XBMC) and we get a formal review of it this just sounds like a very underpowered unit that isn't worth the price.

I really that aasoror has provided invaluable information and perhaps he has been able to get it working well but there are just too many negative opinions out there. Moreover, it's really not clear that Google TV or this is going to succeed in the TV market.

philip

Well don't buy one....I'm really interested in this but like to wait for the "guinea pigs" to work out any bugs before I purchase one ( I almost bought one last night). The fact that there's potential for XBMC, the cost, and all the android apps makes it extremely tempting for me. I can't count on one hand all the media players out there that were ready for "prime time" from the get-go, so lets not knock this just yet. I think the ATV3 is useless, but I don't seek out the threads and bash it....It sounds like this box is not for you.

To aasoror, thanks for all the leg work!
post #84 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraZtiK View Post

Well don't buy one....I'm really interested in this but like to wait for the "guinea pigs" to work out any bugs before I purchase one ( I almost bought one last night). The fact that there's potential for XBMC, the cost, and all the android apps makes it extremely tempting for me. I can't count on one hand all the media players out there that were ready for "prime time" from the get-go, so lets not knock this just yet. I think the ATV3 is useless, but I don't seek out the threads and bash it....It sounds like this box is not for you.
To aasoror, thanks for all the leg work!

looks interesting enough but the no HD audio = no sale...
post #85 of 235
So what would you recommend in its place?? just as another android stb alternative. Not ATV or any HTPC
post #86 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraZtiK View Post

Well don't buy one....I'm really interested in this but like to wait for the "guinea pigs" to work out any bugs before I purchase one ( I almost bought one last night). The fact that there's potential for XBMC, the cost, and all the android apps makes it extremely tempting for me. I can't count on one hand all the media players out there that were ready for "prime time" from the get-go, so lets not knock this just yet. I think the ATV3 is useless, but I don't seek out the threads and bash it....It sounds like this box is not for you.
To aasoror, thanks for all the leg work!

looks interesting enough but the no HD audio = no sale...

While I would like DD/DTS, I know others would like support for other audio codecs. But I do have hope. According to numerous post i've seen it is a possibility.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=136037&pid=1151446#pid1151446 post 215
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=136037&pid=1151496#pid1151496 post 220


The thing I believe people are over looking is that this is all open source (Android/XBMC) which means anyone that wants something bad enough can dig into the code and add it. Which is rare for any of the media players.

And the Pivos crew are working with XBMC.

Now, I also understand people want ISO support, I do not keep anything in iso so it doesn't effect me but I have heard players like mx player and vlc for android are working for iso files. Of course I believe there are no menus right now.

I'm excited about this just because there isn't a media player that has come out yet that can get the attention of a developer like this box can. for example:

https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/1/topics/136
Quote:
We've got quite a few good hackers on the forum, so we might be able to help XBMC development by fixing bugs like this. These bugs are likely affecting many more devices than just the MK802 and the Mini X.

I'm diving into the source now, hopefully it's as small as checking for a wider range of input codes or some additional devices to get mouse clicks and keyboard entries to work.

Again...there will be some that this box does not appeal too so good luck to them in their quest for the media player that does it all.smile.gif
post #87 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraZtiK View Post

While I would like DD/DTS, I know others would like support for other audio codecs. But I do have hope. According to numerous post i've seen it is a possibility.
Actually XBMC guys have DD 5.1 working on the internal builds, since as I mentioned earlier, AC3 multichannel support is there but just not enabled by the firmware, DTS 5.1 on the other hand is still pending licensing clearance from Amlogic.

I don't think HD-Audio bitstreaming will be a go on this XIOS-DS though.
post #88 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasoror View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraZtiK View Post

While I would like DD/DTS, I know others would like support for other audio codecs. But I do have hope. According to numerous post i've seen it is a possibility.
Actually XBMC guys have DD 5.1 working on the internal builds, since as I mentioned earlier, AC3 multichannel support is there but just not enabled by the firmware, DTS 5.1 on the other hand is still pending licensing clearance from Amlogic.

I don't think HD-Audio bitstreaming will be a go on this XIOS-DS though.

I believe I worded my post wrong and did not mean to imply that HD audio was a possibility.
post #89 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasoror View Post

I don't think HD-Audio bitstreaming will be a go on this XIOS-DS though.

Hmmmm, a carefully worded statement? A go on the XIOS-XS perhaps?
post #90 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraZtiK View Post

I believe I worded my post wrong and did not mean to imply that HD audio was a possibility.
You didn't I just mentioned that for completion smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post

Hmmmm, a carefully worded statement? A go on the XIOS-XS perhaps?
lol, I don't want to give any TBA info because I don't want to end up spreading misinformation, I have a very "unforgiving" crowd in my circles. smile.gif
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