Originally Posted by Charles R
Makes perfect sense. Do you have a list of receivers proven to have sonically transparent electronics
so one is aware of what one is purchasing?
Fair question. My answer would be pretty much any modern AVR or separate that uses chip-amps or discrete AB amps, can flow enough current to drive one's speakers impedance, and have enough power to reach desired levels. For most speakers in most rooms, IMO, chip-amps are preferable to discrete amps. Provided they meet the above conditions, at least. The reason is that chip-amps will have better-matched pairs, and thus have negligible crossover distortion.
The Anthem unit Jayray mentioned is one of them, though it uses commodity Chinese A/B amp modules just like everyone else and is nothing special in the amp department. (I use an Anthem MRX 300 in my main system. I would use its built-in amps, too, except that I use speakers with an outboard active crossover. Unfortunately, but like every other AVR maker/marketer today, Anthem doesn't include preout/main-in loops that would allow people with more complex system designs to still make some use of the internal amplification.)
If an AVR uses Class D amps, it may
have high output impedance, or output impedance that varies with frequency within the audible band. In which case the amp FR would vary based on the load it drivers. So one still needs to take Class D boxes on a case-by-case basis, depending on the design of the amp and the impedance curve of the loudspeakers one intends to use.
I've seen a few tests of AVRs that seemed to have exceptionally weak power supplies, but they are fairly rare above the $300 mark or so. For some, that might lead to sonic differences, depending on how difficult a load the loudspeakers present (low impedances at high phase angles), how efficient the loudspeakers are, and how big the listening room is.
But the fact of the matter is that it's relatively cheap to get electronics to be straight wires with gain, and outside a few fetishist cults within the "high end," straight-wire-with-gain t is the design brief of most audio amplifiers. So one really needs to focus not on the hard parts, but the soft parts, such as room correction, to find sonic improvements.
Originally Posted by fjames
The problem with belief systems is they are by definition, irrational. A member is only allowed to believe in what the system allows, therefore facts that don't fit the system must be ignored, therefore it's irrational.
Where it gets interesting is when multiple systems compete for the same members. Each system denies the views of the other, as they must. So, the "religion" of ABX must deny the views of the religion of listeners. Makes things fun for us atheists
The error in your reasoning is that "ABX" involves nothing but listening.
It strips away all of the confounding variables, and forces one to just listen.
There is no "belief" involved. Just empirical testing of falsifiable claims* As late Stereophile
founding editor J. Gordon Holt put it, in answer to the question, "Do you see any signs of future vitality in high-end audio?"
Originally Posted by JGH
Vitality? Don't make me laugh. Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. ***
So, the real "teams" are
(1) people who trust their ears, i.e. people who use just
their ears, not their opinions of brands, price-points, etc., and
(2) and people who lack the basic confidence/self-esteem to trust their ears, i.e. they have to rely on crutches such as their eyes, listening with mismatched levels, the opinion of sales-hacks, people on internet fora (who often have pecuniary interests in propagating audio mythology but don't always disclose that information), magazine advertorials, etc.
is a falsifiable claim, and the threshold question. Without actual difference in a given variable, there is no legitimate preference. However, when difference is established, preference
is an individualized subjective matter. Science can establish only a majority preference, as well as say what's objectively more accurate to a large degree.
Originally Posted by HomeTheater1010
Just check out Butler amps , really made very nice and Sounds Amazing ... Would love to hear it with some B&W 802 or one Focals .....woooooooweeeeee .lol
I bet they do, if you like a fixed midrange boost. It's EQ, not tubes or anything else, that makes Butlers sound different from high fidelity electronics.
And you can compound amp's midrange errors by using high-end-but-not-high-fidelity
speakers with poor midrange power response, like those horrid B&W 802's or the JM Lab Utopias...