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Recommend 12" driver for sealed (2.25 cubic foot) enclosure?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
For my first DIY project, I'd like to make a subwoofer to complement my SVS PB12-NSD. Given my lack of woodworking tools or skills, I'd like to start out with one of Erich H's flatpack subwoofer enclosures. His 2.25 cubic foot enclosure is designed for a 12" driver and is specifically cut for the 12" Reference Series driver from Parts Express.

I have several questions.

1. Will the PE driver keep up with the SVS, or are there better 12" drivers out there? The PE driver is ~ $125-150, my budget can handle up to $300 for the driver.

2. What software should can I use to model the driver within a 2.25 cu ft sealed enclosure?

3. Will the software tell me what kind of amplification I need? I'd prefer to use a plate amp, but could be talked into an outboard amp if it was more appropriate.

My room is 26x15x7.5, so almost 3000 cubic feet. The SVS is a fantastic upgrade over what I had before, but a second sub would smooth out room modes and sound even better, I'm sure!

I eventually will order some measurement hardware and download REW, but I'd like to get the second sub built first.

TIA,
Ken
post #2 of 16
There are a number of companies that make good drivers. Credence has a bunch, as does Earthquake. GR Research makes the SW-12B, Eminence the LAB 12, Peerless the XLS and TC Sounds the Epic. Even some companies known mostly in the auto world, like Sundown, make drivers that could be used for HT. There might be something offered by those companies that may work for you.
post #3 of 16
To be frank I think the 12" isnt a wise use of money. Your room is huge. Get the 15" enclosure and slap a 15" sub in that thing. If i were you i would buy an SWS-1522D off of ebay (hooked on tronics has them for $200), or an SA-15 D2 off of sound solutions audio.

Plate amps are bad for sealed enclosures simply because their output sucks, you need to get a power amp that delivers a clean 1000+ watts. Maybe nab a inuke NU3000 then bridge it

If i were you i would see how this project goes, if it goes good then sell the SVS and get another 15" driver then another NU3000 possibly.
Edited by omegaslast - 6/8/12 at 4:11pm
post #4 of 16
Ok... If you follow the Welti/Devantier method your subs need to be of equal capability. If you follow the Geddes method you start with a fully capable sub corner positioned, then an equal sub on an oposing wall, and third..somewhere else in the room, of what we assume is of lesser capability.

Now, if you stray from either like i did and achieved great results ( other than my subs lack output capability ) they should all be of equal capability. I'm sure there are other methods just waiting to be discovered, but at this point we are stuck with the two i mentioned , and my near field subs.

WTS, ^^^^^^^ +1 on the 15" driver recommendation, and the amp for what you can get used could be a pro amp.

Now i used the Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm and the, Dayton 240watt plate amp. I'm positive the plate amp is causing the output issue, wont know till i pick up another amp like a used Behringer EP2500 used cheap. Check out the thread in my sig, the multisub one for picks and graphs and stuff....
post #5 of 16
CSS Trio12
post #6 of 16
Just FYI, the GR Research SW-12B would be better in the 1.25cu ft. box... And it's an 8 ohm driver, so something to keep in mind.

I second the CSS Trio 12 though.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

To be frank I think the 12" isnt a wise use of money. Your room is huge. Get the 15" enclosure and slap a 15" sub in that thing. If i were you i would buy an SWS-1522D off of ebay (hooked on tronics has them for $200), or an SA-15 D2 off of sound solutions audio.
Plate amps are bad for sealed enclosures simply because their output sucks, you need to get a power amp that delivers a clean 1000+ watts. Maybe nab a inuke NU3000 then bridge it
If i were you i would see how this project goes, if it goes good then sell the SVS and get another 15" driver then another NU3000 possibly.

Thanks for the input.

I guess I never thought of my room as "huge," but does seem to be larger than many of the HT's I've seen here and on the Blu-Ray forum. That said, because the room will be used for other purposes (kids playroom mostly), I don't have room for multiple huge subs. The SVS PB12-NSD is as large as I can get and I'm not sure I'd want to add a second of that size. Hence the plan to go to a sealed design (or, perhaps, a passive radiator).

If I went to a 15" and a sealed enclosure that would probably be within my size limitations.

For the driver, I assume you mean this DCON series driver from SSA? Have folks had good luck using a car audio driver for HT?

BTW, nice work on the REW tutorial. I'm about the pull the trigger on the TASCAM soundcard for my laptop. For now, I plan to use my RadioShack SPL meter for the measurement microphone, but will eventually pick up a calibrated Dayton EMM6 when I get ready to build surround speakers.

I assume the RS SPL meter will work as a measurement microphone with the TASCAM soundcard?

Thanks
Ken
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Just FYI, the GR Research SW-12B would be better in the 1.25cu ft. box... And it's an 8 ohm driver, so something to keep in mind.
I second the CSS Trio 12 though.

If I stick with the 12" driver and the 2.25 cu ft box, how do I determine how much amplification I'd need? Is there a recommend online tool for measuring output and amplification with a given driver and enclosure size? Forgive the NOOB questions - thanks!
post #9 of 16
The TC Epic 12 with the O Audio 500 watt amp would be a good match for what you're trying to do


381

This is with the 20hz HPF setting on the amp, it applies about 5db of boost centered at 19hz. Might not be as flat as the SVS, but it should work fairly well.
post #10 of 16
hey arlington va, i used to live at courthouse plaza.

the amount of power that a driver can take is limited by the thermal capability of the driver and/or the excursion limits of the driver.

depending on the driver selected and the type of enclosure, this will occur at different points along the frequency spectrum.

WinISD by Linearteam is a free program that is pretty easy to use if you want to play with some modelling.

it will show you where the driver will be under the most thermal and excursion stress.

i like the idea of a ported 15" sub for your room. one of erich's enclosures could be used as a start. then all you'd have to do is add a port. folks here can help you get the right diameter/length. a ported sub can be as much as 10db louder at the tuning frequency than a sealed with the same driver and that is quite a big difference.

good luck with your project.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The TC Epic 12 with the O Audio 500 watt amp would be a good match for what you're trying to do
381
This is with the 20hz HPF setting on the amp, it applies about 5db of boost centered at 19hz. Might not be as flat as the SVS, but it should work fairly well.

Cool - did you model that with the 2.25 cu ft enclosure? Thanks.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Wood View Post

Cool - did you model that with the 2.25 cu ft enclosure? Thanks.

Yes, and it will not exceed xmax from 500 watts.
post #13 of 16
here is a 3.5 cubic footer ported, which is about the same size as the pb12nsd, but i just threw the epic12 driver in there and put 400 watts on it. the yellow line is 2.25 cubic feet sealed with 500 watts.

seems like the diy sealed would be a step backwards from what you have now.

blue line is 3.5 cubic footer ported with an alpine swr1522 (though several other drivers will work) with an inuke 3000dsp, which puts out 1500 watts. that would be really pushing the 1522, but it would also be a step up from what you have now.

328
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
This has been a helpful discussion - many thanks! Given my WAF and space constraints, I don't think I can swing a ported 3.5 cu ft enclosure. The biggest I can go is the 3.0 cu ft enclosure, which would give me room for a 15" driver.

If I decide to port the box, how would I determine the port diameter and length? Based upon the formulas here?
post #15 of 16
Dual opposed Infinity Reference 1262w wired for a 4 ohm load will get you ~105dB at ~20-22Hz at 700 watts (pushing x-max). ~$100 in drivers and this is in a 3.0 cuft/80liter sealed cabinet.
post #16 of 16
yeah, but where does the 10db of eq come from?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Recommend 12" driver for sealed (2.25 cubic foot) enclosure?