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Prometheus *PLOT SPOILERS* discussion - Page 12

post #331 of 472
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

when home video revenue is factored in eventually.
Guesses?
Hoping for around $75mil. There's a segment of adult audiences that have a habit of skipping R-rated films in theatres and catching them on home video instead.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #332 of 472
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

I thought it was just a mess with a blender of ideas mostly unresolved and making no sense.
This V
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

You should preferably see the film more than once
It's RS's clever business tactic.
post #333 of 472
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

catching them on home video instead.
Don't forget the revenue from Halloween related products.
post #334 of 472
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

RS dropped the ball as far as making this a stand alone enjoyable movie. I enjoyed the heck out of this with my prior knowledge from various RS interviews about the Space Jesus, black goo etc stuff. The group I saw this with were ALL extremely frustrated and confused about what was going on, why scientists behaved the way they did etc, etc. These were all Alien franchise knowledgable folks and still could not put the hints together to make substance out of what they saw on screen. Heck, nobody even drank before the movie so all faculties were there. tongue.gif:eek:
It's fine to be a trilogy but there has to be enough there for the general public to connect the dots to enjoy the movie. Alien 1/ 2 are two of the highest rated movies in their genre and with RS back on board, and the stellar AV and cast, this had the chance to be $200mil+ BO material. The public voted, and is another stake in the heart for big budget R movies.
I will buy the bluray on the day it comes out, but am questioning if I will even have a viewing party? I feel I would have to preface the movie with what is really going on (or what I think it means) for my guests to enjoy.

But there was plenty of dots. The film is explained suffetiently, and is actually edited very tightly to make sure you get all the info.

I think the biggest issue is people had a expectation of ALIEN 0.5 going in, and when it was Ridley Scotts opinion on 2001 and a litany of other big questions, they tuned out and rebelled.

Every single thing the goo touches in the main acts of the movie turns into some sort of xeno like creature, even the commonly incorrectly observed "zombie" (which didn't act very zombieish, but xenoish). Yet a lot of people feel cheated saying there were no xeno's in the film, but a cop out at the end...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

If you start from a made-up premise that there were two races of engineers, based solely on seeing one in underwear and another in a bio-suit, then you'll feel that the "brother race" isn't explained. Of course, the explanation is that there aren't two races of engineers depicted in the movie. If you don't start from a false premise, then there is no "brother race" left unexplained. Likewise, if you're willing to notice that a cup full of black goo has a different effect than tiny drop of black goo (like a single sleeping pill has a different effect than a bottle full of sleeping pills), then there is no reason to give the goo a personality (benevolent), let alone imagine it underwent a personality change (to selfishness).

Ok, but the Goo from the prologue rips apart and recombined DNA with either local elements or local life. Scott says if it was earth or not doesn't matter, but it does mater that they imply it happen on Earth at some point. It didn't turn the planet into Xeno's or xeno like mutations.

Later that's all the Goo from an alter room, filled with xenomorphic/engineer murals, did.

The Goo very blatantly had changed. It had changed os much, it wiped out everything on LV233. We know Ridley Scott put's a hell of a lot of thought to the cinematography, to his sets, and to the look of his films. I have a hard time believing the pure, untainted engineer form the start contrasting with those later is not intentional or just "because it looked cool". Just as intentional as the changed results of the goo.

The Engineers view of us changed
Their tools changed
They changed

Pretty simple observation.

As for revenue, it just hit $300 mil world wide, but it still hasn't opened in Germany and Japan (and a few other small markets). Those are big scifi markets, and it should pull another 30-40 I'd say. Home video? who knows. Movie with much smaller margins and much worse receptions have got sequels, so I don't see why this wouldn't. Being a moderately successful R rated science fiction flick is actually somewhat of an anomaly. It even opened in the top 10 highest grossing R rated movies, which is usually reserved for comedy, action adventure, or well known trilogies.
post #335 of 472
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

+100
Looking at the Numbers site, as a comp, Sherlock Holmes Game of Shadows did $80 mil between DVD and Bluray. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Hoping for around $75mil. There's a segment of adult audiences that have a habit of skipping R-rated films in theatres and catching them on home video instead.
All I hope is sequel(s) well be done....wink.gif

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Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Don't forget the revenue from Halloween related products.
I'll take an Engineer's Costume, please....tongue.gif

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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

But there was plenty of dots. The film is explained suffetiently, and is actually edited very tightly to make sure you get all the info.
I think the biggest issue is people had a expectation of ALIEN 0.5 going in, and when it was Ridley Scotts opinion on 2001 and a litany of other big questions, they tuned out and rebelled.
Every single thing the goo touches in the main acts of the movie turns into some sort of xeno like creature, even the commonly incorrectly observed "zombie" (which didn't act very zombieish, but xenoish). Yet a lot of people feel cheated saying there were no xeno's in the film, but a cop out at the end...
Ok, but the Goo from the prologue rips apart and recombined DNA with either local elements or local life. Scott says if it was earth or not doesn't matter, but it does mater that they imply it happen on Earth at some point. It didn't turn the planet into Xeno's or xeno like mutations.
Later that's all the Goo from an alter room, filled with xenomorphic/engineer murals, did.
The Goo very blatantly had changed. It had changed os much, it wiped out everything on LV233. We know Ridley Scott put's a hell of a lot of thought to the cinematography, to his sets, and to the look of his films. I have a hard time believing the pure, untainted engineer form the start contrasting with those later is not intentional or just "because it looked cool". Just as intentional as the changed results of the goo.
The Engineers view of us changed
Their tools changed
They changed
Pretty simple observation.
As for revenue, it just hit $300 mil world wide, but it still hasn't opened in Germany and Japan (and a few other small markets). Those are big scifi markets, and it should pull another 30-40 I'd say. Home video? who knows. Movie with much smaller margins and much worse receptions have got sequels, so I don't see why this wouldn't. Being a moderately successful R rated science fiction flick is actually somewhat of an anomaly. It even opened in the top 10 highest grossing R rated movies, which is usually reserved for comedy, action adventure, or well known trilogies.
Dude, you really have to STOP being so analytical...this is the Internets.biggrin.gif
post #336 of 472
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I'll take an Engineer's Costume, please....tongue.gif
Here is cheaper version of it. http://www.beyondhollywood.com/posterx/darkcity4.jpg Untrained eyes will never know the difference. wink.gif
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Dude, you really have to STOP being so analytical...this is the Internets.biggrin.gif
I think he's been driven into it by those who rant too much or ask too many questions.
post #337 of 472
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

The Goo very blatantly had changed.
The amount changed, which shouldn't be confused with the goo itself being different. Like seeing someone get over their insomnia by taking a sleeping pill vs seeing someone commit suicide by swallowing an entire bottle of sleeping pills, and then concluding that the chemical formula of the pills was different in each case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

I have a hard time believing the pure, untainted engineer form the start contrasting with those later is not intentional or just "because it looked cool".
Nothing to do with looking "cool". Like seeing a tribe of naked aborigines thousands of years ago vs seeing the same tribe today with clothes on, and then concluding that they were two different species of human.
post #338 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

I think the biggest issue is people had a expectation of ALIEN 0.5 going in, and when it was Ridley Scotts opinion on 2001 and a litany of other big questions, they tuned out and rebelled.

Please stop saying this.

The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid. I had no expectations going into it other than that I hoped it wouldn't be stupid. Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes.

'Oh, well, like, that's your fault for expecting it to be something it's not.'

I don't consider it unreasonable to expect the movie to not be a totally idiotic disaster of monumental proportions. If I wanted that, I'd go watch the Transformers sequels again.
post #339 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Please stop saying this.
The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid.
Please say it like this, "The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid to me" or "In my opinion, the movie is stupid", because you are expressing your personal view, not the ultimate answer. That is unless you are that ultimate authority.
Quote:
I had no expectations going into it other than that I hoped it wouldn't be stupid. Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes.
'Oh, well, like, that's your fault for expecting it to be something it's not.'
I don't consider it unreasonable to expect the movie to not be a totally idiotic disaster of monumental proportions. If I wanted that, I'd go watch the Transformers sequels again.
Which recent movie did you like?
post #340 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Please stop saying this.
The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid. I had no expectations going into it other than that I hoped it wouldn't be stupid. Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes.
'Oh, well, like, that's your fault for expecting it to be something it's not.'
I don't consider it unreasonable to expect the movie to not be a totally idiotic disaster of monumental proportions. If I wanted that, I'd go watch the Transformers sequels again.

Man Josh, I just don't see what would please you in fiction if you can't let the little things slip in cinema. Especially in Soft/Medium science fiction, which is exactly what Prometheus was. I mean, once you start being overtly critical, where does it end? Not like we have the ability to travel light years, or build androids, or a litany of other magic and belief suspending assumptions that are needed to even get into a film like Prometheus. I'm cool with people disappointed it wasn't hard scifi, but there's not much of that out there, and even less good. I'm still of the opinion a lot of the "unbelievable actions" are really explained as hubris and arrogance. The movie is leaking it at every turn, critiquing humans for their assumptions and oversight. With it's connections to Nietzsche, I think some of that was by choice, even if some was by necessity (laziness?).

I will say at least you're consistent, and not a fan of TDKR. Because I've seen plenty of people holding that one up, and tearing down this movie... which is just fanyboyism at it's worst. They both have very similar flaws, and overlooking one for the other is bollocks.

Anyways, curious, whats your top 5-10 science fiction flicks in cinema?
post #341 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes.
I realize you're pi$$ed, but "worse and worse and worse?"eek.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Anyways, curious, whats your top 5-10 science fiction flicks in cinema?
NONE comic books:

2001
Alien & Aliens
Blade Runner
Close Encounters....
Dune
JP 1
Predator
Robocop
SW 4&5
Terminator 2
TFE
The Matrix
WotW




Oh WAIT!

You were asking Josh...tongue.gif
post #342 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I realize you're pi$$ed, but "worse and worse and worse?"eek.gif
NONE comic books:
2001
Alien & Aliens
Blade Runner
Close Encounters....
Dune
JP 1
Predator
Robocop
SW 4&5
Terminator 2
TFE
The Matrix
WotW

Oh WAIT!

You were asking Josh...tongue.gif

You liked Dune? Oh Oink, I had such high expectations for you. I liked the miniseries much better. At least SWs aren't on your list.
My list: 12 Monkeys, Blade Runner, The Matrix, The Terminator, Aliens, Serenity, A Clockwork Orange, The Road Warrior, Brazil, Silent Running, The Thing (Carpenter), Westworld, Delicatessen, Videodrome, Children of Men, Donnie Darko, Starship Troopers, Robocop, Altered States, Barbarella (despite her what people may think about her politics -- Jane Fonda was gorgeous), Galaxy Quest, Sleeper, The Andromeda Strain, and Watchmen. Edit, oh The Incredibles!
Edited by daryl zero - 7/27/12 at 4:07pm
post #343 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Please stop saying this.
The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid. I had no expectations going into it other than that I hoped it wouldn't be stupid. Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes.





disagree. there are some tough to accept scenes through the first 2/3 of the movie, but then it gets really good once ms. shaw gives herself the operation.

especially liked the dialouge between her and david at the end comparing humans to androids.

well written and eye opening and very thought provoking.............

imho.
post #344 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

You liked Dune? Oh Oink, I had such high expectations for you. I liked the miniseries much better. At least SWs aren't on your list.
My list: 12 Monkeys, Blade Runner, The Matrix, The Terminator, Aliens, Serenity, A Clockwork Orange, The Road Warrior, Brazil, Silent Running, The Thing (Carpenter), Westworld, Delicatessen, Videodrome, Children of Men, Donnie Darko, Starship Troopers, Robocop, Altered States, Barbarella (despite her what people may think about her politics -- Jane Fonda was gorgeous), Galaxy Quest, Sleeper, The Andromeda Strain, and Watchmen. Edit, oh The Incredibles!
I tried to stay away from anything remotely dealing with origins from superhero or comic books/graphic novels.
FWIW, I consider that to be separate genre....as well as these: Galaxy Quest = comedy/satire, ST = satire, A Clockwork Orange = satire, The Thing = horror, etc.

I also excluded those like The Road Warrior and Children of Men and V for Vendetta (in spite of being Favs), because I was looking at films where science/future tech fiction plays a dominant role.
Yeah, I was trying to draw a very fine line here.wink.gif

BTW, Dune is great sci-fi...there, I said it.tongue.gif
post #345 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

NONE comic books:
2001
Alien & Aliens
Blade Runner
Close Encounters....
Dune
JP 1
Predator
Robocop
SW 4&5
Terminator 2
TFE
The Matrix
WotW

Great list! Hope you're talking about the first WotW. wink.gif

And I love Lynch's "Dune" as well. It's campy, sure, but it's got this epic feel to it and some really mesmerizing sequences that represent real "movie magic" to me.
post #346 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Please say it like this, "The biggest issue is that the movie is stupid to me" or "In my opinion, the movie is stupid", because you are expressing your personal view, not the ultimate answer. That is unless you are that ultimate authority.

In your opinion, I should have to say that it's my opinion, but in my opinion, I shouldn't have to say that it's my opinion, because in my opinion it's already implied that it's my opinion.

IMO FWIW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Man Josh, I just don't see what would please you in fiction if you can't let the little things slip in cinema. Especially in Soft/Medium science fiction, which is exactly what Prometheus was. I mean, once you start being overtly critical, where does it end?

"If you don't like this movie just because it happens to be stupid, then you must not like any movies. So nyahhhh…."

What a weak argument.

I like movies that aren't stupid. This one was stupid. I have a low tolerance for outrageous ineptitude. Perhaps you have lower standards?
post #347 of 472
Nope, just don't like the smell of my own farts.

missed a question too, whats up to your "standard"?
post #348 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

"If you don't like this movie just because it happens to be stupid, then you must not like any movies. So nyahhhh…."
What a weak argument.
I like movies that aren't stupid. This one was stupid. I have a low tolerance for outrageous ineptitude. Perhaps you have lower standards?
Wait, aren't you like the biggest Homer for Dune?
post #349 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

In your opinion, I should have to say that it's my opinion, but in my opinion, I shouldn't have to say that it's my opinion, because in my opinion it's already implied that it's my opinion.
Not only my opinion but because you said this before. v
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Maybe that's fine by you, but it's not fine by me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This one was stupid.
No, it was not. You are wrong.


You see, I or someone else could easily respond such way because you've made a statement in definitive term. In internet communication, you have to make redundant effort because people are not talking face to face. It's a necessary extra measure in order to avoid conflicts.
post #350 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

In your opinion, I should have to say that it's my opinion, but in my opinion, I shouldn't have to say that it's my opinion, because in my opinion it's already implied that it's my opinion.
IMO FWIW.
OK, that thar is funny.biggrin.gif
post #351 of 472
Hopefully Ridley will put the Bruce Campbell scenes back in the directors cut.
post #352 of 472
Ugh.

First of all (even as someone who generally enjoyed Prometheus) I'm very much with Josh on this tired "you should say in your opinion" stuff. OBVIOUSLY people are giving their opinion!
But an opinion is often not limited to "I liked" or "disliked." An opinion is very often an appraisal, in which case it's not all subjective: some opinions can be more soundly reasoned than others.
I am going to take my surgeon's opinion on whether I ought to have that tumor extracted, over my garbage man's opinion on the subject.

Similarly, not all opinions on movies insofar as they are appraisals are on equal footing. If someone says "That character did something unrealistic" or "dumb" then it's quite possibly right, and someone disagreeing is wrong. There are many instances in the movie Dumb and Dumber were it's going to be damned silly to hold the "opinion" that what the characters were doing was what one would expect of a smart person. If you offered that opinion, you'd just be wrong.

So when someone appraises some of the characters in Prometheus as doing very unrealistic actions - that is actions so dumb it's just out of character for what we'd expect of a professional chosen for such a mission - someone can be right about that, someone can be wrong. These are claims that can be in principle supported through good argument. Things get subjective again when it gets back to whether we liked the Prometheus movie experience or not. If it's the case that, yeah, many of the plot lines and character actions were unmotivated, irrational, or incoherent, then perhaps some people have higher tolerance for going along with all of that than others. And if someone else wants to say "But it's no dumber than that other movie you liked" then, again, that's not all necessarily subjective - it's up to the person making the claim so support it.

But the idea that we all have to keep saying "it's my opinion" is tiresome. We are always giving "our opinion." But sometimes in our opinion we are talking about only subjective claims - "i liked it" - and other times making more objective claims - "the plot had contradictions, X acted irrationally, etc." in which case we don't have to concede all opinions are equal.
post #353 of 472
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Ugh.
First of all (even as someone who generally enjoyed Prometheus) I'm very much with Josh on this tired "you should say in your opinion" stuff. OBVIOUSLY people are giving their opinion!
But an opinion is often not limited to "I liked" or "disliked." An opinion is very often an appraisal, in which case it's not all subjective: some opinions can be more soundly reasoned than others.
I am going to take my surgeon's opinion on whether I ought to have that tumor extracted, over my garbage man's opinion on the subject.
Similarly, not all opinions on movies insofar as they are appraisals are on equal footing. If someone says "That character did something unrealistic" or "dumb" then it's quite possibly right, and someone disagreeing is wrong. There are many instances in the movie Dumb and Dumber were it's going to be damned silly to hold the "opinion" that what the characters were doing was what one would expect of a smart person. If you offered that opinion, you'd just be wrong.
So when someone appraises some of the characters in Prometheus as doing very unrealistic actions - that is actions so dumb it's just out of character for what we'd expect of a professional chosen for such a mission - someone can be right about that, someone can be wrong. These are claims that can be in principle supported through good argument. Things get subjective again when it gets back to whether we liked the Prometheus movie experience or not. If it's the case that, yeah, many of the plot lines and character actions were unmotivated, irrational, or incoherent, then perhaps some people have higher tolerance for going along with all of that than others. And if someone else wants to say "But it's no dumber than that other movie you liked" then, again, that's not all necessarily subjective - it's up to the person making the claim so support it.
But the idea that we all have to keep saying "it's my opinion" is tiresome. We are always giving "our opinion." But sometimes in our opinion we are talking about only subjective claims - "i liked it" - and other times making more objective claims - "the plot had contradictions, X acted irrationally, etc." in which case we don't have to concede all opinions are equal.
What would your first reaction be to someone who says, "Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes." about a movie that you enjoyed?
My first reaction was, "Hmm, this guy seems to be in one of those fringe group of movie taste spectrum". So I wanted to learn little more about him by asking, "Which recent movie did you like?" which apparently blew right by him. Now I'm beginning to suspect trolling.
post #354 of 472
First, I don't think Josh's opinion is necessarily that "fringe." Are you aware of just how much complaining there is from disappointed Prometheus viewers? I've seen it trashed with similar vigor all over the place.
Aside from that, sure your follow up question makes perfect sense to me. But your suggestion that Josh needed to put the disclaimer "in my opinion" was over-doing it for the reasons I (and Josh) have given.

Cheers,
post #355 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

First, I don't think Josh's opinion is necessarily that "fringe." Are you aware of just how much complaining there is from disappointed Prometheus viewers? I've seen it trashed with similar vigor all over the place.
Aside from that, sure your follow up question makes perfect sense to me. But your suggestion that Josh needed to put the disclaimer "in my opinion" was over-doing it for the reasons I (and Josh) have given.
Cheers,

Meh, critics and most user opinions like it. It's got a 7.6 on IMDB, 73% fresh on RT and 72% audience. Not "Spectacular" or "Revolutionary", but not anywhere near the fringe of the people that apparently HATE it so much that they keep coming back over and over to voice that displeasure and flood discussiond of the movie everywhere you go.

It's called nerd rage for a reason. It ain't rational. And yes, it's trolling and fringe. I suspect Damon Lindelof being attached to it was a big reason too, there's a lot of people out there that generally don't like the guy and his work and are making sure they say so at every chance.
post #356 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

First, I don't think Josh's opinion is necessarily that "fringe." Are you aware of just how much complaining there is from disappointed Prometheus viewers? I've seen it trashed with similar vigor all over the place.
I looked at many reviews before and after seeing this movie and they don't support your " trashed with similar vigor all over the place".
Quote:
Aside from that, sure your follow up question makes perfect sense to me. But your suggestion that Josh needed to put the disclaimer "in my opinion" was over-doing it for the reasons I (and Josh) have given.
Cheers,
If you would, please reread post #339. I mentioned more than one choice of expression. Plus, I wouldn't have engaged in this many posts regarding someone's posting style instead of focusing on the movie itself if his post (#338) didn't start out with "Please stop saying this.". I've never seen such conduct about someone's view of a movie. It certainly is extremely unusual thus my speculation on the fringe.
Also, this just about crosses the border of trolling. -> "Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes."
post #357 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

It's called nerd rage for a reason. It ain't rational.

No it's entirely rational to express disapproval with a movie. What are you thinking?

"That movie sucked!. And here's why..."

Is completely rational. So is "I LOVED that movie; it was the best war movie I've ever seen!.."

Film fans are passionate about movies. Further, there are some films, or film franchises, that have touched people's lives. Jaws, for instance, has been cited by countless people in the film industry as having had a life-long influence. A number of directors I've met when we discuss films, talk of the place Jaws has in their lives, including the director of the movie I'm working on right now. Both of us got into the film business because of Jaws...(hell, I'm taking my family to Martha's Vinyard for vacation, one main reason being my and my son's love for the movie Jaws)...and some other movies like Alien. Alien has been a life-long love and influence on me (same with Bladerunner) and many, many other people. I frankly get sick of people saying it's silly, or irrational or going overboard to be passionate about movies...which is going to include being passionate about movies when the disappoint us as well. Ridley Scott returning to sci-fi held out the opportunity for his fans that he might produce another classic in the genre, or at least a great contribution. He'd done it before; he seemed aiming to do it again. When it was a let down for some folk, it's actually entirely rational to be extremely disappointed given the enduring and often quite deep influence the previous movies had on their lives. If your only way to process this is "nerd rage" then it's just a shallow take on the subject.

And usually it's by folks who seem irked it's a movie they liked that someone else didn't like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

And yes, it's trolling and fringe.

No. No it isn't.

I followed Prometheus hype all over the net, wherever it happened because I was enjoying being excited for the movie (comic forums, sci-fi forums, philosophy forums, gadget sites, AV sites, newspaper sites, the alien/predator sites, the official Prometheus forum, you name it. I watched the fall out for weeks afterward. There was TONS of bashing of this movie, the theme being "Let's count the number of stupid things in the movie..' or just rants on how disappointing it was (well-deserved rants).

So, no I'm not really going to take your word it's trolling and fringe.

Josh jumped in to call you out on a bad theory (concerning people expressing disappointment with Prometheus). People who didn't like it hear this all the time, that they went in with the wrong expectations or whatever. Whether you mean it or not, when you say this not only does it get it wrong, it makes the Prometheus critics out to be naive or not as in tune as you were - after all people like YOU didn't make such mistakes, whereas Prometheus critics just weren't savvy enough to come to Prometheus with the right mind set. And that's just bullcrap, which Josh quite rightly calls out when people keep trotting it out. All we wanted was a good sci-fi movie from Ridley Scott. We would have gone wherever the movie took us - as we do with any good movie - so long as the movie was well acted, well crafted etc.

Again, I saw it twice and enjoyed myself (though I agree with many criticisms of the film). But I find the people who come down on those who strongly disliked Prometheus to be, if anything, more irritatingly pushy or peddling shallow takes on the issue "hey it's just a movie" type crap. "Chill out" type rebuttals are tired and lazy.

Sometimes people will dislike a movie you liked, and because movies inspire passion they will be passionate about why they disliked it. Get over it. Start thinking about why someone might be passionate, rather than reducing it to "nerd rage" and "trolling."
Edited by R Harkness - 7/29/12 at 11:04pm
post #358 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Ugh.
First of all (even as someone who generally enjoyed Prometheus) I'm very much with Josh on this tired "you should say in your opinion" stuff. OBVIOUSLY people are giving their opinion!
But an opinion is often not limited to "I liked" or "disliked." An opinion is very often an appraisal, in which case it's not all subjective: some opinions can be more soundly reasoned than others.
I am going to take my surgeon's opinion on whether I ought to have that tumor extracted, over my garbage man's opinion on the subject.
Similarly, not all opinions on movies insofar as they are appraisals are on equal footing. If someone says "That character did something unrealistic" or "dumb" then it's quite possibly right, and someone disagreeing is wrong. There are many instances in the movie Dumb and Dumber were it's going to be damned silly to hold the "opinion" that what the characters were doing was what one would expect of a smart person. If you offered that opinion, you'd just be wrong.
So when someone appraises some of the characters in Prometheus as doing very unrealistic actions - that is actions so dumb it's just out of character for what we'd expect of a professional chosen for such a mission - someone can be right about that, someone can be wrong. These are claims that can be in principle supported through good argument. Things get subjective again when it gets back to whether we liked the Prometheus movie experience or not. If it's the case that, yeah, many of the plot lines and character actions were unmotivated, irrational, or incoherent, then perhaps some people have higher tolerance for going along with all of that than others. And if someone else wants to say "But it's no dumber than that other movie you liked" then, again, that's not all necessarily subjective - it's up to the person making the claim so support it.
But the idea that we all have to keep saying "it's my opinion" is tiresome. We are always giving "our opinion." But sometimes in our opinion we are talking about only subjective claims - "i liked it" - and other times making more objective claims - "the plot had contradictions, X acted irrationally, etc." in which case we don't have to concede all opinions are equal.
Rich....do you have a Fan Club yet?
Can I start one?wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

What would your first reaction be to someone who says, "Unfortunately, it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes." about a movie that you enjoyed?
Josh tends to be very intense about movies....unfortunately, this seems to be only true of movies he dislikes.
I would like to see a list of his sci-fi favs, but I don't think he is inclined to post such a thing.

Quote:
My first reaction was, "Hmm, this guy seems to be in one of those fringe group of movie taste spectrum". So I wanted to learn little more about him by asking, "Which recent movie did you like?" which apparently blew right by him. Now I'm beginning to suspect trolling.
He isn't "trolling," in the strict sense of the word.
When a movie rubs him the wrong way, he responds very strong emotionally.
post #359 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Get over it.
"Please stop saying this."

That is unless you would say it to both posters, not just one.
Quote:
Sometimes people will dislike a movie you liked, and because movies inspire passion they will be passionate about why they disliked it.
But to post on public forum, "Please stop saying this.", "it is painfully, astoundingly, insultingly stupid and awful in every single scene, and it just gets worse and worse and worse as it goes." is extreme don't you think? Does the word "fringe" start to become more appropriate?
Edited by bcruiser - 7/30/12 at 9:18am
post #360 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Josh tends to be very intense about movies....unfortunately, this seems to be only true of movies he dislikes.

I would like to see a list of his sci-fi favs, but I don't think he is inclined to post such a thing.
He isn't "trolling," in the strict sense of the word.
When a movie rubs him the wrong way, he responds very strong emotionally.
Did you say, "very intense" and "very strong"? eek.gif Sounds extreme, no? confused.gif

One doesn't have to be a (internet) troll to be trolling. Anyone who would rather not engage in a discussion and just blasts out rants or similar comments and becomes disruptive ("Please stop saying this.") is trolling. Now, if that's all he does, then that will make him a (internet) troll.
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