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Prometheus *PLOT SPOILERS* discussion - Page 3

post #61 of 472
6/14/12 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

..besides, we can assume their metabolism works slightly differently than ours. By ours I mean Earth living organisms, not just humans.

That is something one should consider when pondering extraterrestrial life. We have in the last several years found life here on Earth in places/environments that seemingly break the rules of what is/was commonly accepted as "sufficient to support life", which has further bolstered the belief that actual life beyond our planet/solar system is even more likely when you toss the "Goldilocks Zone" concept out.

Such lifeforms from places normally believed to be non life-friendly could very well have physiologies & biological processes that are very much "alien" to us & our knowledge of life on our own planet. If/when we ever to encounter 100% proof of extraterrestrial life - intelligent or not - it sure as hell will not be what Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas taught us to expect.
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post #62 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Nugent View Post

The question of rapid alien growth was pondered and a possible answer was given here:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/602028-prometheus-aka-scott-2012-reviews-thread-18.html#post11267411

That's not much of an answer. Mass can't be created out of energy alone. While energy can fuel the process - as in photosynthesis - you needs raw materials to build the physical structures of any organism. Those pesky laws of physics again. Any alien being in our universe has to follow the same ones we do.

Quick growing lethal organisms are a sci-fi cliché like artificial gravity and whoosh sounds as spaceships wiz by. We're stuck with 'em.
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post #63 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:39am
This is a Sci-fi movie.

Science Fiction

You guys take too literally. tongue.gif
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post #64 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

I believe it was a biological agent as well, but one that reacted differently depending on the person/being interacting with it. Good came from it in the engineers hands while the opposite came from it in the hands/presense of humans (and nothing when the android interacted with it).

I would concur.
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post #65 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

That's not much of an answer. Mass can't be created out of energy alone. While energy can fuel the process - as in photosynthesis - you needs raw materials to build the physical structures of any organism. Those pesky laws of physics again. Any alien being in our universe has to follow the same ones we do.
Quick growing lethal organisms are a sci-fi cliché like artificial gravity and whoosh sounds as spaceships wiz by. We're stuck with 'em.

This has been covered in video games. Parasite Eve to be exact. Don't you know anything:)?
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post #66 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

it sure as hell will not be what Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas taught us to expect.
Yeah, instead it may end up being what Ridley Scott taught us to expect. biggrin.gif
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post #67 of 472
6/14/12 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Mass can't be created out of energy alone. While energy can fuel the process - as in photosynthesis - you needs raw materials to build the physical structures of any organism. Those pesky laws of physics again. Any alien being in our universe has to follow the same ones we do.
Quick growing lethal organisms are a sci-fi cliché like artificial gravity and whoosh sounds as spaceships wiz by. We're stuck with 'em.

BUT since Prometheus is a fever dream that a robot is watching it should be ok.
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post #68 of 472
6/14/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

This is a Sci-fi movie.
Science Fiction
You guys take too literally. tongue.gif

It's a bad science fiction movie. I would have preferred to watch a good science fiction movie. Like Alien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

BUT since Prometheus is a fever dream that a robot is watching it should be ok.

Does tacking a "It was all just a dream. :doodly-doo-doodly-doo-doodly-doo:" ending really make the movie seem better to you? confused.gif
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post #69 of 472
6/14/12 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


Does tacking a "It was all just a dream. :doodly-doo-doodly-doo-doodly-doo:" ending really make the movie seem better to you? confused.gif

I like it just fine, wasn't perfect and didn't hold my hand all the way through like most modern movies. I'm ok with letting go while watching a movie.
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post #70 of 472
6/14/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


It's a bad science fiction movie. I would have preferred to watch a good science fiction movie. Like Alien.

Alien is more horror-oriented than true science-fiction to me. Prometheus is true science-fiction with a few horror moments here and there. And it's not bad. dammit.tongue.gif
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post #71 of 472
6/14/12 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

This is a Sci-fi movie.
Science Fiction
You guys take too literally. tongue.gif

Yes indeed, Prometheus is a Science Fiction movie.

Out of curiosity: What does the word "science" in "science fiction" indicate to you?
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post #72 of 472
6/14/12 at 2:07pm
That it will be Science-y with no intention of being 100% factually correct. wink.gif

Have fun, guys. Why so serious? Do you take 'science' in Star Wars and Star Trek so literal? Yeesshhh.
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post #73 of 472
6/14/12 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

That it will be Science-y with no intention of being 100% factually correct. wink.gif

Fair enough. I suppose some people have a lower tolerance for the science being incorrect than others. Though I don't see that it's particularly more virtuous either way. I personally like to see more rather than less
appeal to correct science - the less contact a film has with "science" the less it seems to me it ought to be considered "science" fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Have fun, guys. Why so serious? Do you take 'science' in Star Wars and Star Trek so literal? Yeesshhh.

I'm not sure what you mean. There's this strange train of thought coming from people who liked or loved Prometheus that putting any serious thought into analyzing it is odd, or to be advised against. (Well...it seems ok if you come out with a positive opinion, rather than a negative opinion of the science. Once it's negative you are told to "relax" and "just enjoy" and "why so serious?").

People around here love movies. And some movies, or some types of movies, contain ideas that get the imagination fired up and lead to lots of fascinating topics and discussions - for instance on the scientific
questions that arise in considering what happens in Prometheus. In fact, that is one reason lots of people like science fiction - they like the concepts and the way such movies can make us think.

It's fun. It's intellectually stimulating. Loving movies and discussing them is a passion. I don't see what the problem is.

(Off Topic: The formatting in this forum since the change sux. Very hard to get correct formatting, I'm finding.
Edited by R Harkness - 6/14/12 at 2:30pm
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post #74 of 472
6/14/12 at 2:32pm
Hey, it's cool and I understand that we like to nitpick this kind of stuff. It just seems that the tone has been too serious about some of the things such as Noomi's post surgery mobility "omg, that is SO wrong" but everything and anything from...Aliens is 100% correct and undisputed. Lolwut.

I don't know...just an observation. I don't let things like moving the damn plot along get in the way of me enjoying the movie. smile.gif
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post #75 of 472
6/14/12 at 2:50pm
It's funny how subjective the viewing experience is.

Noomi running around after her surgery is pretty obviously naff in logical terms, but it never really bothered me during the movie, where it seems to have really stuck out to others.

Whereas things like scientists just not behaving remotely like scientists did stick out for me more. One big one is when Noomi is asked for the evidence or justification for her theory about the engineers genetically engineering us (or giving us a message to visit them) her retort is "That's what I choose to believe." About as anti-scientific an attitude and basis as one could possibly have, let alone one to base an entire, massively expensive mission upon. It's just more pleasant for me to have my brain intellectually stimulated rather than blunted with a stupid-hammer in a sci-fi movie. Further, it's this type of moment in a movie when a character point is made so bluntly in the face of logic (they wanted to make an interesting issue of Noomi's faith in the movie), that it lifts the veil and I'm forced to see the script writer's intentions, rather than remain compelled by what is happening dramatically.

Whereas, I certainly enjoyed the obvious thought that went into the design of the Prometheus, the vehicles and other cool stuff, like the mapping devices etc.
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post #76 of 472
6/14/12 at 3:04pm
I also wasn't bother by her mobility post surgery. Especially considering that she was hunched over, moaning and groaning the rest of the film even with the copious amounts of painkillers she kept injecting herself with. tongue.gif

Yes, my biggest gripe with the whole movie was those two scientist guys and their actions. I think it's just a typical movie-ism and it would be nice to see this one go without those kinds of things but... it didn't.
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post #77 of 472
6/14/12 at 3:04pm
I think "Moff's Law" may be appropriate sometimes wink.gif:

http://www.racialicious.com/2009/12/21/and-we-shall-call-this-moffs-law/

ETA: For Josh Z ^^^^^ biggrin.gif
Edited by R Harkness - 6/14/12 at 4:26pm
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post #78 of 472
6/14/12 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Whereas things like scientists just not behaving remotely like scientists did stick out for me more. One big one is when Noomi is asked for the evidence or justification for her theory about the engineers genetically engineering us (or giving us a message to visit them) her retort is "That's what I choose to believe." About as anti-scientific an attitude and basis as one could possibly have, let alone one to base an entire, massively expensive mission upon. It's just more pleasant for me to have my brain intellectually stimulated rather than blunted with a stupid-hammer in a sci-fi movie. Further, it's this type of moment in a movie when a character point is made so bluntly in the face of logic (they wanted to make an interesting issue of Noomi's faith in the movie), that it lifts the veil and I'm forced to see the script writer's intentions, rather than remain compelled by what is happening dramatically.
Whereas, I certainly enjoyed the obvious thought that went into the design of the Prometheus, the vehicles and other cool stuff, like the mapping devices etc.

Well she learn that response from her dad, it was he told her when he couldn't give her a sufficient answer. Gotta remember that one when my kid gets older and starts asking odd questions.


Djoel
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post #79 of 472
6/14/12 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I think "Moff's Law" may be appropriate sometimes wink.gif:
http://www.racialicious.com/2009/12/21/and-we-shall-call-this-moffs-law/

Not Bad wink.gif
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post #80 of 472
6/14/12 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

And to somewhat complement this, here's an interview with Ridley Scott, "The director on Prometheus, what he thinks about God (not so pleasant) and aliens (a little more so), and his next movie" (Esquire)
Ridley Scott: [...]And the biggest source of evil is of course religion.
interviewer: All religions?
RS: Can you think of a good one? A just and kind and tolerant religion?
interviewer: Not off the top of my head, no.
RS: Everyone is tearing each other apart in the name of their personal god. And the irony is, by definition, they're probably worshipping the same god.
Interview here: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/qa/spitznagel/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview-9423167

not ripping God but man made religions
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post #81 of 472
6/14/12 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

This is a Sci-fi movie.
Science Fiction
You guys take too literally. tongue.gif


disagree

this is touted as science fiction. not much true science in prometh. but great fiction.
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post #82 of 472
6/14/12 at 4:52pm
so what killed the engineers on their ship and why did one survive?
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post #83 of 472
6/14/12 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Well she learn that response from her dad, it was he told her when he couldn't give her a sufficient answer.
Djoel

Yeah, though it doesn't excuse the logic.

You bring up another thing that sort of tweaked my brain when watching the movie. That flash-back to Elizabeth Shaw as a child questioning her dad felt at odds to some degree with the grown up Elizabeth Shaw. She seemed to be written as
a natural born skeptic, asking skeptical questions about the rituals and religious ideas in front of her, and given by her father. She seemed the opposite of someone destined to grow up and be the one clinging to faith over reason - yet that is just the roll
she takes in the rest of the movie.
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post #84 of 472
6/14/12 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

She seemed to be written as
a natural born skeptic, asking skeptical questions about the rituals and religious ideas in front of her, and given by her father.

The flashback and her subsequent confidence in her cross to me is just her way of honoring the memory of her mother gone too soon, based of course on her father's beliefs. Is she a true believer, a true "christian"? I don't think so. Which is why she's looking for "the truth" so to speak. She doesn't want a proof that her father was right and her cross really means something, she just wants the truth. But she still hopes the "better place" is not just a fantasy. As a child she was told her mother was in a better place, she still wants to believe this because even now as a grown-up, maybe it's too hard for her to admit that maybe nothing happens once you're gone, too hard to admit that maybe it's just it. I'm fine with this although my views are different. I lost my father when I was 11, I never really wondered where he was, the only unbearable truth was that he wasn't there with us anymore. I don't need religion, I despise it. If we're supposed to go somewhere when we die, it has nothing to do with religion, religious people or not then we go to the same place, if such a place exists it's probably the same for all human beings. That's probably what her character is looking for, her cross is just her own symbol of hope and the memory of her mother. It's like she wants to believe in something but even for her it's not clear what exactly. That's how I interpret it.
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post #85 of 472
6/14/12 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

so what killed the engineers on their ship and why did one survive?

The sole surviving engineer was woken up by David from cryo-sleep. The fact that the rest of the engineers died out of the cryo-freezers seems to suggest two things. One, the engineers never went into cryo and got killed either through infection/implantation with the alien embryos. The fact that the rest of the cryo-freezers seem to have been closed seem to indicate the rest of the engineers either never went in, or came out and then subsequently died.

Alternatively, the rest of the engineers got infected post thaw and died before the lone surviving engineer could be thawed. Maybe the last engineer was already in cryo, and the aliens did not infect him in cryo-sleep as the aliens need a living host for the embryo to gestate (?).
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post #86 of 472
6/14/12 at 7:32pm
In the original alien movie, when they enter the foreign ship, don't they find the Engineer sitting in his chair with his rips blown out? Seems like he should have died there rather than on the floor of the shuttle. Doesn't anyone else find that annoying that they totally changed how/where he died? That was always a huge mystery to me in Alien, and this did not answer it.
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post #87 of 472
6/14/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Have fun, guys. Why so serious? Do you take 'science' in Star Wars and Star Trek so literal? Yeesshhh.
My observation here tells me that the majority of Prometheus discussion participants on this forum liked this movie. The members who didn't like it are in the minority here.
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post #88 of 472
6/14/12 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

The flashback and her subsequent confidence in her cross to me is just her way of honoring the memory of her mother gone too soon, based of course on her father's beliefs. Is she a true believer, a true "christian"? I don't think so. Which is why she's looking for "the truth" so to speak. She doesn't want a proof that her father was right and her cross really means something, she just wants the truth. But she still hopes the "better place" is not just a fantasy. As a child she was told her mother was in a better place, she still wants to believe this because even now as a grown-up, maybe it's too hard for her to admit that maybe nothing happens once you're gone, too hard to admit that maybe it's just it. I'm fine with this although my views are different. I lost my father when I was 11, I never really wondered where he was, the only unbearable truth was that he wasn't there with us anymore. I don't need religion, I despise it. If we're supposed to go somewhere when we die, it has nothing to do with religion, religious people or not then we go to the same place, if such a place exists it's probably the same for all human beings. That's probably what her character is looking for, her cross is just her own symbol of hope and the memory of her mother. It's like she wants to believe in something but even for her it's not clear what exactly. That's how I interpret it.


Great answer, I think that's pretty much it and her thoughts on the cross and what ever belief she's holding on to.


Djoel
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post #89 of 472
6/14/12 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post

In the original alien movie, when they enter the foreign ship, don't they find the Engineer sitting in his chair with his rips blown out? Seems like he should have died there rather than on the floor of the shuttle. Doesn't anyone else find that annoying that they totally changed how/where he died? That was always a huge mystery to me in Alien, and this did not answer it.

There were many of the same type of ship on the planet.
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post #90 of 472
6/14/12 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post

In the original alien movie, when they enter the foreign ship, don't they find the Engineer sitting in his chair with his rips blown out? Seems like he should have died there rather than on the floor of the shuttle. Doesn't anyone else find that annoying that they totally changed how/where he died? That was always a huge mystery to me in Alien, and this did not answer it.

Different Engineer, different ship, different planet.
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