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Official Samsung UNXXES7100 Thread. - Page 3

post #61 of 2627
6/24/12 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
I'm in north Florida and have been playing with TS "Debby" all day, I better go unplug my 2 sets as I don't need any lighting hitting them.eek.gif
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post #62 of 2627
6/25/12 at 2:51pm
I have had mine for 3 weeks now & very pleased w/picture hd&3d look great had to do some tweaking
to get the blacks as black as ink, but all looks great, no grain at all.

John
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post #63 of 2627
6/25/12 at 3:15pm
Thread Starter 
I'm still thinking about returning my 55" that keeps turning it's self on in exchange for the 60" rolleyes.gif
Do the 60" versions have the same picture quality as the 55's or is it worst?
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post #64 of 2627
6/25/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DataJohn View Post

I have had mine for 3 weeks now & very pleased w/picture hd&3d look great had to do some tweaking
to get the blacks as black as ink, but all looks great, no grain at all.
John

specifically what are your tweaks to get "blacks as black as ink" on this model?
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post #65 of 2627
6/25/12 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

ELMO, what firmware version do you have?

I updated to the most recent firmware before posting the original picture - 1015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

Have you tried reducing the contrast and backlight setting under Movie mode and compare?
That can reduce flashlighting and clouding effects - view in the dark to see the effect best.

I got the Disney WOW BluRay to do some calibrating tonight...I messed with Movie mode with backlight and contrast but still had clouding. However, when I switch to Standard Mode clouding improves significantly to the point where I don't notice it on a black screen (it is still there but I can't see it with my eyes. I had to use the long shutter function on my camera to capture the clouding - my previous picture was with a normal shutter speed - so while it may not look improved in pictures in reality it is much much better). I was also better able to match test patterns in Standard Mode vs Movie Mode, for example in Movie Mode even with contrast set to 100 it was not high enough to get to "ideal white" which I was able to do in Standard Mode. So perhaps it is just an issue with Movie Mode and having lower contrast/brightness and that brings out clouding? By no means is Standard Mode too bright and washing the picture. Another helpful tip I read is to use ECO mode to have the backlight reduce automatically to a set level (I am using 4) as it helps with clouding, which is most apparent when watching dark content in a dark room.

Reading through the UNxxES8000 thread a lot of users said they preferred Standard Mode to Movie as Standard seems to have better black levels, which I am guessing has to do with a higher contrast ratio - I am in agreement with this. Nitra also posted that the ES8000 series (which is similar enough I think it would apply here) takes 3-4 weeks to break-in during which clouding should reduce. So I might wait two weeks with my Standard Mode setting and then switch to Movie Mode to compare to see if clouding does indeed improve.

Some Quick TV Settings for the picture below: Standard Mode, Backlight 8 (ECO on), Contrast 99, Brightness 50

450
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post #66 of 2627
6/26/12 at 4:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO45 View Post

I updated to the most recent firmware before posting the original picture - 1015
I got the Disney WOW BluRay to do some calibrating tonight...I messed with Movie mode with backlight and contrast but still had clouding. However, when I switch to Standard Mode clouding improves significantly to the point where I don't notice it on a black screen (it is still there but I can't see it with my eyes. I had to use the long shutter function on my camera to capture the clouding - my previous picture was with a normal shutter speed - so while it may not look improved in pictures in reality it is much much better). I was also better able to match test patterns in Standard Mode vs Movie Mode, for example in Movie Mode even with contrast set to 100 it was not high enough to get to "ideal white" which I was able to do in Standard Mode. So perhaps it is just an issue with Movie Mode and having lower contrast/brightness and that brings out clouding? By no means is Standard Mode too bright and washing the picture. Another helpful tip I read is to use ECO mode to have the backlight reduce automatically to a set level (I am using 4) as it helps with clouding, which is most apparent when watching dark content in a dark room.
Reading through the UNxxES8000 thread a lot of users said they preferred Standard Mode to Movie as Standard seems to have better black levels, which I am guessing has to do with a higher contrast ratio - I am in agreement with this. Nitra also posted that the ES8000 series (which is similar enough I think it would apply here) takes 3-4 weeks to break-in during which clouding should reduce. So I might wait two weeks with my Standard Mode setting and then switch to Movie Mode to compare to see if clouding does indeed improve.
Some Quick TV Settings for the picture below: Standard Mode, Backlight 8 (ECO on), Contrast 99, Brightness 50
450

That's interesting, as I thought that you could achieve any adjustability at any "setting". I thought they were just named as they were preset at the factory. So the same settings at different presets display differently?
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post #67 of 2627
6/26/12 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 
ELMO, all clouding aside, how is the HD picture quality on the 60" set?
I'm thinking about returning my 55" in exchange for the 60.
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post #68 of 2627
6/26/12 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO45 View Post

I updated to the most recent firmware before posting the original picture - 1015
I got the Disney WOW BluRay to do some calibrating tonight...I messed with Movie mode with backlight and contrast but still had clouding. However, when I switch to Standard Mode clouding improves significantly to the point where I don't notice it on a black screen (it is still there but I can't see it with my eyes. I had to use the long shutter function on my camera to capture the clouding - my previous picture was with a normal shutter speed - so while it may not look improved in pictures in reality it is much much better). I was also better able to match test patterns in Standard Mode vs Movie Mode, for example in Movie Mode even with contrast set to 100 it was not high enough to get to "ideal white" which I was able to do in Standard Mode. So perhaps it is just an issue with Movie Mode and having lower contrast/brightness and that brings out clouding? By no means is Standard Mode too bright and washing the picture. Another helpful tip I read is to use ECO mode to have the backlight reduce automatically to a set level (I am using 4) as it helps with clouding, which is most apparent when watching dark content in a dark room.
Reading through the UNxxES8000 thread a lot of users said they preferred Standard Mode to Movie as Standard seems to have better black levels, which I am guessing has to do with a higher contrast ratio - I am in agreement with this. Nitra also posted that the ES8000 series (which is similar enough I think it would apply here) takes 3-4 weeks to break-in during which clouding should reduce. So I might wait two weeks with my Standard Mode setting and then switch to Movie Mode to compare to see if clouding does indeed improve.
Some Quick TV Settings for the picture below: Standard Mode, Backlight 8 (ECO on), Contrast 99, Brightness 50
450

Just got home with a Brand New 60" and will set it up in the morning. The box is quite a bit bigger then the 55" smile.gif
I'm praying for no clouding or other problems.

ELMO, Do you have ECO on or off?
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post #69 of 2627
6/26/12 at 8:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amajamar View Post

That's interesting, as I thought that you could achieve any adjustability at any "setting". I thought they were just named as they were preset at the factory. So the same settings at different presets display differently?

I think you can calibrate with any setting, however I think that may require digging deeper than I am comfortable with, i.e. professional calibration using the service menu or messing with things such as 10p white scale. I am thinking things like contrast are relative to the mode, unless you get deeper into calibration than the average user.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

ELMO, all clouding aside, how is the HD picture quality on the 60" set?
I'm thinking about returning my 55" in exchange for the 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

Just got home with a Brand New 60" and will set it up in the morning. The box is quite a bit bigger then the 55" smile.gif
I'm praying for no clouding or other problems.
ELMO, Do you have ECO on or off?

HD picture quality is amazing, I am currently watching Olympic Qualifiers and it is quite stunning. I think the extra 5 inches would definitely be worth the extra money for the more immersive experience - I sit 12.5 feet from the TV and think the size is perfect. Clouding only really appears during test patterns and isn't really noticeable on 99% of use. Let me know how your 60" does with clouding - I would be interested to see a picture to compare.

ECO mode is on with minimum backlighting of 4.
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post #70 of 2627
6/26/12 at 10:02pm
I have been reading through the ES8000 thread and saw that quite a few users have reported that using standard mode relieves clouding issues and seems to make black levels look better. I found the following explanation for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

As for the Audio Controls, I have them disabled, they work, but I can't get the IR blaster working correctly yet with my cable company, try and set the keyword to SMART TV, it helps. The PQ is better on the 8000, darker blacks, deeper colors etc. Side note, the Audio Controls/Visual Controls are available on the 7500/8000.
As for the clouding, most of this is your eyes playing tricks on you, it's actually there in both modes, but in STD it's a less noticeable because the colors are amplified etc etc etc.
This isn't something new to this years models, it's been noticed all the way back to the A series, my suggestion as has been for a long time, use the ECO sensor, it really makes a difference in keeping the backlight correct, I can safely run with a backlight of 13, and set the ECO to bottom out at 4, and it keeps my set well lit.
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post #71 of 2627
6/27/12 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 
Hopefully I'll get it setup tonight. I do not have any calibration discs, is the Disney WOW worth getting?
What is a good way to see the clouding without any calibration discs?
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post #72 of 2627
6/28/12 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

Hopefully I'll get it setup tonight. I do not have any calibration discs, is the Disney WOW worth getting?
What is a good way to see the clouding without any calibration discs?

Here's an article about calibrating and it talks about three different calibration discs. I went for WOW because it has a good skill range from basic to expert on how to calibrate and guides you through really well. It is definitely worth the $23 to get a disc so you can improve your PQ, it just helps the image pop. You can always go the professions route, but that is around $300, which at this point I don't have the money for.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/how-calibrate-your-hdtv-0?page=0,0

As far as seeing clouding without a calibration disc you need to get a hold of "break-in" slides (just google TV break-in slides) and use a black slide (you can copy them onto a thumb drive and plug it in to the TV) or if you have a black home screen on something (for example my Denon receiver) that would do the same thing. Basically you just need a black screen that keeps the backlight on. Also, if you switch to movie mode clouding becomes more apparent and easier to detect on just a black screen. You also want to do this in a light controlled room or at night. But at the end of the day, having clouding on a test pattern or slide doesn't really matter, only if it is noticeable under normal watching. For example, pop in a movie that has a lot of dark scenes, such as Tron or Dark Knight and if clouding is distracting then you might have a problem. Unfortunately that is one of the draw backs on LED/LCD.
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post #73 of 2627
6/28/12 at 2:51pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, ELMO
Would you mind sharing your current "Standard" settings that you have so far?
Just ordered the WOW blu ray from Amazon.
Edited by Hooterville - 6/28/12 at 5:53pm
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post #74 of 2627
6/28/12 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

Thanks, ELMO
Would you mind sharing your current "Standard" settings that you have so far?
Just ordered the WOW blu ray from Amazon.

Here's what I am running with, pretty basic settings, I figure eventually I might worry about calibrating grayscale and such, but this is working for me now...however, I do have one caveat. I would not rely on my color or tint settings as I am slightly color deficient so I am not the best person to base anything to do with color, however contrast, brightness, etc. is not impacted by color deficiency.

Also, you may want to dial your backlight down to 8, but I have a window directly behind my TV so I have it up higher.


Standard Mode

Backlight 9 with ECO on with a minimum of 4
Contrast 82
Brightness 53
Sharpness 16
Color 40
Tint G48/R52
Dynamic Contrast Off
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Gamma -3
Color Tone Warm2
Edited by ELMO45 - 10/4/12 at 7:51pm
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post #75 of 2627
6/29/12 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO45 View Post

Here's what I am running with, pretty basic settings, I figure eventually I might worry about calibrating grayscale and such, but this is working for me now...however, I do have one caveat. I would not rely on my color or tint settings as I am slightly color deficient so I am not the best person to base anything to do with color, however contrast, brightness, etc. is not impacted by color deficiency.
Also, you may want to dial your backlight down to 8, but I have a window directly behind my TV so I have it up higher.
Standard Mode
Backlight 13 with ECO on with a minimum of 4
Contrast 99
Brightness 50
Sharpness 16
Color 41
Tint G48/R52
Dynamic Contrast Off
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Gamma -2
Color Tone Warm2

Thanks, ELMO
Are these settings you achieved with the WOW disc?
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post #76 of 2627
6/30/12 at 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

Thanks, ELMO
Are these settings you achieved with the WOW disc?

Yep
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post #77 of 2627
6/30/12 at 8:09pm
Thread Starter 
I did not even try the WOW disc yet. I just turned down my contrast to 90 and that alone made a big improvement in picture quality. I see you have the sharpness also turned way down, does this improve PQ also? smile.gif
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post #78 of 2627
6/30/12 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

I see you have the sharpness also turned way down, does this improve PQ also? smile.gif
That can reduce oversharpening artifacts.
These artifacts are visible on a sharpness test pattern like from the free downloadble AVS709 test patterns.
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post #79 of 2627
7/1/12 at 3:40pm
Well, I went out and exchanged the 46D7000 for the 46ES7100 and I can't say that I'm impressed yet. Initially it looks like there is less flashlighting and clouding, but I can't seem to get a decent black level and crisp picture. I tried the settings from above, (with the exception of the tint) and I'm finding a strange condition in the Expert Pattern #1. When I have the contrast set at around the high 90's (which seems like everyone is setting these sets is finding a correct setting) the pattern shows the white block in the middle top looks neutral grey, where all the white below has a blue (cyan) cast. When I reduce the contrast to where the blue cast disappears, the contrast is too low to give decent blacks and the picture seems washed out.

Has anyone used the Expert Patterns with success? If you have, are you seeing the same two-tone white occuring? I think it's pretty strange and in fact the D7100 didn't exhibit this behavior at all.

Look forward to hearing back from anyone who also has this condition.

Thanks!

EDIT: I am also adding to my list of issues a lack of "off axis" performance. Is anyone else noticing a distict rolloff of contrast or black level at slightly angled viewing? My set really washes out when viewed from the sides. It is significantly worse than the D7000. It may be a deal breaker for me in my room. Anyone else noticing this issue, or did I get a bad set?
Edited by amajamar - 7/1/12 at 5:42pm
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post #80 of 2627
7/1/12 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amajamar View Post

EDIT: I am also adding to my list of issues a lack of "off axis" performance. Is anyone else noticing a distict rolloff of contrast or black level at slightly angled viewing? My set really washes out when viewed from the sides. It is significantly worse than the D7000. It may be a deal breaker for me in my room. Anyone else noticing this issue, or did I get a bad set?
At what viewing angle does it drop off significantly?
From reviews its supposed to be out about 30 degrees off angle.
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post #81 of 2627
7/1/12 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

At what viewing angle does it drop off significantly?
From reviews its supposed to be out about 30 degrees off angle.

Without actually measuring the angle, I can definitely tell you that at about a 45 degree angle it is pretty washed out. In general, I'd say that you can begin to see it at about 20 degrees off center. As I said, the D7000 was definitely better.
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post #82 of 2627
7/1/12 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amajamar View Post

Without actually measuring the angle, I can definitely tell you that at about a 45 degree angle it is pretty washed out. In general, I'd say that you can begin to see it at about 20 degrees off center. As I said, the D7000 was definitely better.

That sounds like it could be in the expected viewing angle from the reviews.
Many of the 2012 high end LED sets are about a 30 degree viewing angle now unfortunately.
The LG IPS panels have a wider angle, but suffer from a higher (worse) black level - so its a tradeoff.
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post #83 of 2627
7/1/12 at 7:28pm
Anyone compare an ES6500 vs the ES7100?
Is it worth the about $400 difference in price between the 55" size of those?
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post #84 of 2627
7/1/12 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

Anyone compare an ES6500 vs the ES7100?
Is it worth the about $400 difference in price between the 55" size of those?

I did, i had the 6500 first and then went on to the 7100. Yes there is a difference in PQ, is it worth the $400, I'm not sure. But this I would say after seeing the 7100, I would not go back down to a 6500.
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post #85 of 2627
7/1/12 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaburyguy View Post

I did, i had the 6500 first and then went on to the 7100. Yes there is a difference in PQ, is it worth the $400, I'm not sure. But this I would say after seeing the 7100, I would not go back down to a 6500.

Agreed, I compared the 6500 and 7100 side by side before buying (compared at Fry's which thankfully has a dimly lit TV area and I was able to set them both to movie mode). The 7100 pops a bit more, a result of micro-dimming (which the 6500 lacks) as you have a better contrast ratio. I figured in the long run $400 extra is worth it, I don't want to regret that expensive of a purchase. Some people say to go for at least the 7500, but they have the same number of zones that dim (7500 you also get color and detail enhancement, which I would bet you could get just by calibrating - might have to be done professionally though), you don't increase the number of zones until you go to the 8000.

Another thing to consider in favor of the 7100, if you don't have another form of media streaming (i.e. xbox, ps3) and want to do Netflix or similar it is nice to have the dual core processor as it makes the Samsung Apps more responsive (although the apps aren't that stable from my experience).
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post #86 of 2627
7/1/12 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amajamar View Post

Well, I went out and exchanged the 46D7000 for the 46ES7100 and I can't say that I'm impressed yet. Initially it looks like there is less flashlighting and clouding, but I can't seem to get a decent black level and crisp picture. I tried the settings from above, (with the exception of the tint) and I'm finding a strange condition in the Expert Pattern #1. When I have the contrast set at around the high 90's (which seems like everyone is setting these sets is finding a correct setting) the pattern shows the white block in the middle top looks neutral grey, where all the white below has a blue (cyan) cast. When I reduce the contrast to where the blue cast disappears, the contrast is too low to give decent blacks and the picture seems washed out.
Has anyone used the Expert Patterns with success? If you have, are you seeing the same two-tone white occuring? I think it's pretty strange and in fact the D7100 didn't exhibit this behavior at all.
Look forward to hearing back from anyone who also has this condition.
Thanks!

Black level should mainly be a function of your brightness and backlight settings. Crisp picture should be based on the contrast ratio, so if you are having trouble with either achieving black blacks or peak white (that are actually white) it makes sense you PQ isn't great.

Have you tried adjusting your color tone, tint, color to rid the cyan in the white? If that doesn't work then you are probably going to have adjust the white balance, which I think requires professional tools. In the ES8000 thread on page 36 Nitra shared his ISF calibration setting, which includes white balance, I would trying copying that over and seeing if that corrects your whites.
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post #87 of 2627
7/2/12 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO45 View Post

Have you tried adjusting your color tone, tint, color to rid the cyan in the white? If that doesn't work then you are probably going to have adjust the white balance, which I think requires professional tools.

To clarify, the Cyan tint is occuring on the Expert Pattern grey scale, and only on the lower half. I am not experiencing an overall Cyan tint. What does that pattern look like on your set with the settings you are using?
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post #88 of 2627
7/2/12 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
ELMO, are you happy with the picture quality on your 60" 7100 series?
How is the picture quality on the non HD channels? My non HD is pretty bad looking mad.gif
Is your clouding getting any better?
I've only just started to play with my settings and will hopefully get a chance to try the WOW disc later this week. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Hooterville - 7/2/12 at 3:17pm
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post #89 of 2627
7/2/12 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooterville View Post

ELMO, are you happy with the picture quality on your 60" 7100 series?
How is the picture quality on the non HD channels? My non HD is pretty bad looking mad.gif
Is your clouding getting any better?
I've only just started to play with my settings and will hopefully get a chance to try the WOW disc later this week. rolleyes.gif

I am happy with my PQ. I can't comment too much on picture quality for non-HD as I only watch a few channels (all of which are HD) and the rest on Netflix and Hulu - I am replacing a 50" Samsung DLP that had 720p resolution from 2006 and I just flipped to a non-HD channel and I would say the non-HD quality is about the same as my old TV adjusted for the larger size. Generally non-HD will look bad on any modern large TV as there is just too much scaling.

My clouding has improved considerably! At this point it is pretty much non-existent and only faintly shows up on a pure black test screen pattern, so I guess the TV does have a break-in period. I can even use Movie Mode now biggrin.gif

Hooterville, do you have any clouding?
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post #90 of 2627
7/2/12 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amajamar View Post

To clarify, the Cyan tint is occuring on the Expert Pattern grey scale, and only on the lower half. I am not experiencing an overall Cyan tint. What does that pattern look like on your set with the settings you are using?

I just pulled up the gray scale. It looks fine to me, no cyan tint on either Movie or Standard mode...However, when on Natural or Dynamic there is a Cyan tint. I don't plan on ever using Natural or Dynamic so that is a non-issue for me. So that Cyan tint is in the TV somewhere, but Standard and Movie don't exhibit it for me.

Also, the Cyan tint is over the entire pattern, not just the lower half.

I don't know if you can calibrate out a Cyan tint if you are not experiencing it overall and just in a portion of the screen. Perhaps exchange or contact Samsung support if you are out of your return period.
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