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The Sting, save your money ! - Page 2

post #31 of 57
6/13/12 at 10:40pm
Can't watch the current versions of Excalibur as the framing ruins it for me.

Just release it as 1.66:1 please. Lets face it the only people who would likely buy it on BD are fans of the film so give them the original version.
Anyway thanks for the headsup on the Sting transfer ( a vastly over-rated film in my opinion but hey ).
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post #32 of 57
6/14/12 at 10:01am
Universal's 'restoration' efforts aside, is so much of this movie supposed to look out of focus?
Or is that another side effect of the DNR process used here?

It looks awful.
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post #33 of 57
6/14/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raoul_duke View Post

Universal's 'restoration' efforts aside, is so much of this movie supposed to look out of focus?
Or is that another side effect of the DNR process used here?
It looks awful.

That might have a different cause, but DNR always blurs a image even though there is always someone who writes 'I cant see it'. Usually they apply a sharpen filter along with DNR but that also introduces more artifacts. Here's a good example:
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cID=1097

Anyway I have watched my HD-DVD of The Sting several times and I did not notice it. I did notice it going in & out of focus on Escape from New York however.
Edited by wuther - 6/14/12 at 4:52pm
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post #34 of 57
6/15/12 at 7:47am
I just watched 'The Sting' on HD DVD last night. It was my third viewing of the HD DVD but it's been a couple of years and this time I tried to view with a more critical eye. It does exhibit poor focus in a few spots. But it sure seems to be the original elements and not the transfer. I never saw it in the theater so I'm not the best judge.

The HD DVD presentation isn't perfect, but it's not crap either. I'd rate it about 3.75 out of 5 stars.

Mark
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post #35 of 57
6/16/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I guess we live and learn but if you still have an HDDVD player and a copy of The Sting hold on to it. This is one of my favorite films of all time ; I can watch it over and over again. The BD is filtered contrast boosted with crushed blacks etc. The grain is no longer natural(there was quite a bit of grain on the HDDVD) but now digital and clumpy looking.
Anyway ,sad really but at least we have a better version available even if it is on HDDVD.
Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baenwort View Post

This is sad to hear, I've got a extra set of parts for my XA2 (Everything but the case) to keep mine going for as long as possible but I've been trying to replace with Blu-ray versions when they are equal or better then the HD-DVD.
Why can't they at least be cheap enough to just copy over the HD-DVD version and make it compatible? Why do they keep making things worse?

One of my favorites as well, was thinking of purchasing the BD but now will just keep watching it on HD DVD

I to have a spare XA2 as well as a A35 (used only to up date to lates fw smile.gif)

Gman
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post #36 of 57
6/17/12 at 9:23am
Good information. Would be nice to have a thread about this in general (if HD DVD release are better than a blu-ray release.) .
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post #37 of 57
6/17/12 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by uw69 View Post

Good information. Would be nice to have a thread about this in general (if HD DVD release are better than a blu-ray release.) .


You can add John Carpenter's THE THING to that list.
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post #38 of 57
6/18/12 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

You can add John Carpenter's THE THING to that list.

I have personally confirmed the following HD DVDs look better than their Blu-ray counterparts either due to better grain structure, less contrasty boosting, or both:

RELEASES THAT LOOK *MUCH* BETTER ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
Animal House
Apollo 13
Army of Darkness
The Big Lebowski
Coming to America
Daylight
The Deer Hunter
The Sting
The Thing
Waterworld

RELEASES THAT LOOK *SLIGHTLY* BETTER ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
Casino
The Mummy
The Mummy Returns
U-571

RELEASES WITH BETTER AUDIO ENCODES ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
The Lady in the Water

RELEASES THAT LOOK SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER ON BLU-RAY THAN HD DVD
12 Monkeys
The Breakfast Club
Flags of Our Fathers
Miami Vice

RELEASES THAT ARE CONFIRMED TO LOOK SIMILAR ON HD DVD & BD
An American Werewolf in London
Billy Madison
Bulletproof
Darkman
Dune
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Happy Gilmore
Tremors
Most Warner/Paramount titles unless otherwise specified.

RELEASES THAT LOOK and SOUND BETTER ON STANDARD DVD than any HIDEF release
The Last Starfighter (1999 CE DVD - Blu-ray / HD DVD extremely DNR'd and has missing audio cue)

RELEASE THAT HAVE ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACKS ONLY ON DVD, HIDEF only have modified SOUND EFFECTS or MUSIC
Conan the Barbarian series (Blu-ray music problems)
Smokey and the Bandit (DVD Pursuit Pack - HD/BD dont have original sound effects)
Terminator (extremely old Image DVD is actually best mono track - HD/BD dont have original sound effects, subsequent DVDs have comparatively poor bass on mono track)


Note if you are savvy you can "convert" HD DVD to Blu-ray with zero quality loss.
Edited by Ruined - 6/21/12 at 12:55pm
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post #39 of 57
6/18/12 at 10:45am
Thanks for the information. Do you have a screenshot comparison for The Last Starfighter? That is an interesting claim to say the DVD looks better.
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post #40 of 57
6/18/12 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorr View Post

Thanks for the information. Do you have a screenshot comparison for The Last Starfighter? That is an interesting claim to say the DVD looks better.

No, but I owned all three and watched them side by side. The DVD looked like film while the BD/HD looked like a wax museum; the BD was slightly better than the HD as the HD had some really weird DNR (similar to beverly hills cop BD), but both the BD and HD looked terrible to the 1999 DVD. Note I am speaking about the 1999 DVD, not the re-release.

And besides the look, there is also a missing music cue in the BD/HD (when the alien is revealed in the bed) that makes the scene goofy instead of creepy - the 1999 DVD has this cue intact.
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post #41 of 57
6/18/12 at 4:48pm
I am rather skeptical that the BD of 12 Monkeys looks better, is there a screen capture comparison showing this? The caps of the BD version look unimpressive to me.

As for Animal House the HD-DVD has terrible pq, the BD maybe a bit worse but they are both still steaming turds. Animal House is the only HD-DVD I got rid of.
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post #42 of 57
6/18/12 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

No, but I owned all three and watched them side by side. The DVD looked like film while the BD/HD looked like a wax museum; the BD was slightly better than the HD as the HD had some really weird DNR (similar to beverly hills cop BD), but both the BD and HD looked terrible to the 1999 DVD. Note I am speaking about the 1999 DVD, not the re-release.
And besides the look, there is also a missing music cue in the BD/HD (when the alien is revealed in the bed) that makes the scene goofy instead of creepy - the 1999 DVD has this cue intact.

Here are some screenshots from the BD: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews46/the_last_starfighter_blu-ray.htm
Can you post a few of the same ones from the DVD?

This one definitely looks like a wax museum: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews46/last_starfighter_blu-ray/large/large_last_starfighter_blu-ray10.jpg
wink.gif
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post #43 of 57
6/18/12 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I am rather skeptical that the BD of 12 Monkeys looks better, is there a screen capture comparison showing this? The caps of the BD version look unimpressive to me.

Yes there is:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1178843/12-monkeys-1995-hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-comparison-pix

The BD version of 12 Monkeys, while not a stunner, does have significantly better grain structure than the HD DVD version.
Quote:
As for Animal House the HD-DVD has terrible pq, the BD maybe a bit worse but they are both still steaming turds. Animal House is the only HD-DVD I got rid of.

Though the HD DVD of Animal House was mediocre, the Blu-ray is significantly worse. It takes the HD DVD master and lumps on DNR, EE, and contrast boosting. While the HD DVD may have looked dated, the BD looks dated and artificial due to all the processing.
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post #44 of 57
6/19/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Yes there is:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1178843/12-monkeys-1995-hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-comparison-pix
The BD version of 12 Monkeys, while not a stunner, does have significantly better grain structure than the HD DVD version.

Thanks for the link. Although I would say calling the Animal House pq mediocre is generous.
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post #45 of 57
6/21/12 at 1:05pm
Pretty shameful for one of the top films of all time.

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but couldn't the HD-DVD be losslessly ripped, demuxed, and remuxed into a BD-compatible file format without re-encoding the video? If so, such a re-muxed version could be burned to BD-R's and played on BD settops if the raw video data is compatible.

What codec was used for the HDDVD release?

Playing the ripped HDDVD from a good HTPC is another option, which will continue to be lower cost and better quality moving forward with the low cost 1080p capable mini ARM and x86 computers hitting the streets, like the Rasberry Pi

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

and its descendants, which will contue to get more powerful at the same price.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs
Quote:
What SoC are you using?

The SoC is a Broadcom BCM2835. This contains an ARM1176JZFS, with floating point, running at 700Mhz, and a Videocore 4 GPU. The GPU is capable of BluRay quality playback, using H.264 at 40MBits/s. It has a fast 3D core accessed using the supplied OpenGL ES2.0 and OpenVG libraries.

https://www.modmypi.com/shop/
Edited by Rgb - 6/21/12 at 1:12pm
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post #46 of 57
6/21/12 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I have personally confirmed the following HD DVDs look better than their Blu-ray counterparts either due to better grain structure, less contrasty boosting, or both:
RELEASES THAT LOOK *MUCH* BETTER ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
Animal House
Apollo 13
Army of Darkness
The Big Lebowski
Coming to America
Daylight
The Deer Hunter
The Sting
The Thing
Waterworld
RELEASES THAT LOOK *SLIGHTLY* BETTER ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
Casino
The Mummy
The Mummy Returns
U-571

RELEASES WITH BETTER AUDIO ENCODES ON HD DVD than Blu-ray
The Lady in the Water

RELEASES THAT LOOK SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER ON BLU-RAY THAN HD DVD
12 Monkeys
The Breakfast Club
Flags of Our Fathers
Miami Vice

RELEASES THAT ARE CONFIRMED TO LOOK SIMILAR ON HD DVD & BD
An American Werewolf in London
Billy Madison
Bulletproof
Darkman
Dune
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Happy Gilmore
Tremors
Most Warner/Paramount titles unless otherwise specified.

RELEASES THAT LOOK and SOUND BETTER ON STANDARD DVD than any HIDEF release
The Last Starfighter (1999 CE DVD - Blu-ray / HD DVD extremely DNR'd and has missing audio cue)
RELEASE THAT HAVE ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACKS ONLY ON DVD, HIDEF only have modified SOUND EFFECTS or MUSIC
Conan the Barbarian series (Blu-ray music problems)
Smokey and the Bandit (DVD Pursuit Pack - HD/BD dont have original sound effects)
Terminator (extremely old Image DVD is actually best mono track - HD/BD dont have original sound effects, subsequent DVDs have comparatively poor bass on mono track)
Note if you are savvy you can "convert" HD DVD to Blu-ray with zero quality loss.

Darkman looks better
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post #47 of 57
6/21/12 at 2:36pm
Please let's keep this on topic relative to this title. If you want to start a separate thread, please do so. ...just remember there will be zero tolerance relative to making it a debate on the format war.
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post #48 of 57
6/24/12 at 9:11pm
Ruined, your effort is much appreciated.
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post #49 of 57
6/25/12 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

I wonder if the mainstream media sources that so dutifully parroted Universal's PR about "restoring" their classics for the 100th anniversary bash will follow up with reports on how generally pathetic these efforts have turned out so far. Hahahaha, who am I kidding?

I felt so angry after having one of my favorite films f**ked up by Universal that I tried to email Dave Kehr at the New York Times to attempt to devote one of his weekly columns to this problem, but I haven't been able to acquire his address so far. My standard dvd two-disc set looks just as good as this allegedly fraudulent attempt at bluray treatment.

I'm going to try and remain positive but I shudder at the thought of what Universal is going to do with the upcoming Hitchcock release. mad.gif
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post #50 of 57
6/25/12 at 5:01pm
The Sting was much better than Universal's usual catalog treatment.
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post #51 of 57
6/26/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

The Sting was much better than Universal's usual catalog treatment.

I threw it back in and its not this terrible pile that this thread makes it out to be. Not having seen the HDDVD might be the reason I think it is a halfway decent transfer and leaps over my DVD copy.
Fans should not be too scared to upgrade from A DVD based on this thread title and comparisons to the deceased HDDVD format. Colors are nice, and some of the fine details do pop, and at times there is an appreciable bit of depth to the film. Yes there is a heavy grain structure but it didn't detract. Blacks had a tendency, at times, to crush which was its worst attribute. Yes, it could use a complete reworking of the master and new transfer, but until then this was not so bad.
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post #52 of 57
6/26/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.B. Forrest View Post

I felt so angry after having one of my favorite films f**ked up by Universal that I tried to email Dave Kehr at the New York Times to attempt to devote one of his weekly columns to this problem, but I haven't been able to acquire his address so far.

You could try emailing him via the NYT (nytnews@nytimes.com, subject line "Contact Reporter:Dave Kehr"). God knows if he'll actually see it, but it's better than nothing. He reads the comments on his website, though this would require making an off-topic post. I suppose webmaster@davekehr.com might be worth a shot.
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post #53 of 57
6/26/12 at 3:42pm
Thanks for the tips. I tried using the NYT suggested methodology for contacting reporters but hit a dead end. I'll try your addresses when I get a chance.
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post #54 of 57
6/26/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.B. Forrest View Post

I felt so angry after having one of my favorite films f**ked up by Universal that I tried to email Dave Kehr at the New York Times to attempt to devote one of his weekly columns to this problem

Has this Dave Kehr covered blu-ray pq issues before?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Weber View Post

I threw it back in and its not this terrible pile that this thread makes it out to be. Not having seen the HDDVD might be the reason I think it is a halfway decent transfer and leaps over my DVD copy.
Fans should not be too scared to upgrade from A DVD based on this thread title and comparisons to the deceased HDDVD format

I must of missed it, where did the op say those without the HDDVD should not buy? Old habits die hard I guess.
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post #55 of 57
6/28/12 at 3:23pm
I have been reading Mr. Kehr's weekly columns for quite awhile and cannot remember the issue of Bluray quality ever having been addressed. However, it's obvious that he cares about the importance of early films by offering brief synopses and release dates for catalog titles new to Bluray that many people may have forgotten about or have never heard of. I think that if he were aware of the underwhelming product offered by certain studios he would have something publicly to say about it.

I'm pleased to hear The Sting plays well on Mr. Weber's Bluray player because it doesn't look very good on mine.
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post #56 of 57
6/28/12 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.B. Forrest View Post

I have been reading Mr. Kehr's weekly columns for quite awhile and cannot remember the issue of Bluray quality ever having been addressed. However, it's obvious that he cares about the importance of early films by offering brief synopses and release dates for catalog titles new to Bluray that many people may have forgotten about or have never heard of. I think that if he were aware of the underwhelming product offered by certain studios he would have something publicly to say about it.

Since he has never address blu-ray issues before I am rather a skeptic he will now. There have been worse offerings of classics then the Sting, The Longest Day and Patton are far worse offenders pq wise.
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post #57 of 57
7/10/12 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.B. Forrest View Post

I'm pleased to hear The Sting plays well on Mr. Weber's Bluray player because it doesn't look very good on mine.

Touché! However, no one stated it isn't without its issues, and it certainly could use a complete re mastering. Compared to the DVD I have it is a step up in a few areas and it also exhibits some of the same issues.
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