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Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 8

post #211 of 730
8/18/12 at 1:21pm
ok, ill just stick to movies full screen then, thanks
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post #212 of 730
8/18/12 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

D'Nice's slides aren't for getting rid of image retention or even helping to reduce the chances of getting them...... Keep using the built-in screen wash sliding white/black bars. They stay on for 15 minutes at a time so you may need to run them multiple times. Other than that it's best just to watch full screen content normally for a day or so and your panel should be good as new. ....

Our experience with 2 60ST30s and 1 60ST50 is that aging the panel reduces the likelihood of IR (or, at least, the Duration of such IR as does show up). As the slides aid in the aging process, they could be claimed to help reduce the chances of getting IR, even if it is a secondary effect.

Slides also have the advantage of NOT stopping after 15 minutes or so - or after several hours, as is the case for Uverse (IF left entirely on its own) - and, if played from a SD card, you don't have worry about a DVD player somehow glitching....
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post #213 of 730
8/18/12 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

I was thinking about swapping the set since I'm within 30 days. how did you go about doing it? since they don't stock the VT in any of the stores near me, it will have to be shipped. Did you just walk in the store with a receipt and tell them the issue and they just sent you a new one, no questions asked?

I called first talked to someone explained the situation, they said I can come in any time. I was outside 30 days, but because I bought the warranty and they make you a silver member when you spend more than $2500 a year they honored the 45 day exchange. My guess is if the replacement gets IR they'll make me go through Geek Squad to have them check it, but they will then swap me into an E8000. I suspect the next VT50 will IR as well, I honestly believe it is inherent in this year's Panasonics. Most people will never see it, I did not know I had it until I put a full screen solid color slide up, probably would have seen it had I watched any hockey or snowy movies like Fargo. I know BB has a dismal future, but the stores by me are always crowded and their customer service has been great. I am still of the dying breed that values the better in person service for big ticket items. The only thing that bugged me was they have the P65VT50 next to the P64E8000, but did not have a way to send the same source to both so it was hard to compare them easily. I will say the E8000 looked good, of course I had no time to try and tweak them to look better.
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post #214 of 730
8/18/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Our experience with 2 60ST30s and 1 60ST50 is that aging the panel reduces the likelihood of IR (or, at least, the Duration of such IR as does show up). As the slides aid in the aging process, they could be claimed to help reduce the chances of getting IR, even if it is a secondary effect.
Slides also have the advantage of NOT stopping after 15 minutes or so - or after several hours, as is the case for Uverse (IF left entirely on its own) - and, if played from a SD card, you don't have worry about a DVD player somehow glitching....

When the replacement VT50 comes I plan on running the slides around the clock for a few days other than the few hours each evening I am home watching TV.
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post #215 of 730
8/18/12 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

if you are considering a plasma and reading this thread, IR probably won't be a problem if you follow these rules early in the life of the TV:
1) make sure pixel orbiter stays enabled at all times, no matter what, Unless you are watching a blu ray with NO black bars. Pixel orbiter only stays enabled when there is some extra "screen space" outside of the viewing area, ala zoom mode, or in the case of the ST/GT/VT sets, you can also set to "size 2" in aspect menu. either one will work. Otherwise the pixel orbiter WONT be enabled. I must emphasize this for video games and cable especially!
2) when watching cable or playing video games, DO NOT use THX mode (neither regular or bright room) for the first 250 hours minimum! Use STANDARD mode instead. Trust me.
3) if logos, scoreboards, tickers whatever are present on the screen during cable, try to zoom them out as best you can. I think the best course of action is actually to alternate zoom and regular mode every 30 minutes or so if you can't completely zoom out the offending image. This is ESPECIALLY important for video games like mass effect 3 where there are some white images that can't be zoomed completely out of view.
4) after about 500 viewing hours, you can ease up a little bit. maybe watch THX mode during regular cable if you alternate channels or the zoom mode like in #3. I would still keep it in standard mode for video games though.
5) after about 1000 viewing hours, you can probably ease up a lot more. use THX while gaming, cable etc. I would keep pixel orbiter enabled anyway, but i would say 1000 hours is the cut off for truely "safe" viewing. If you don't want to follow this procedure, you probably don't care enough about the quality of the picture therefore just get LCD. Neither technology is for everyone.

If any of this is true you just helped me make my decision to just go with the Samsung.
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post #216 of 730
8/18/12 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1022 View Post

If any of this is true you just helped me make my decision to just go with the Samsung.

vilago is right about the ageing process, 500 to 1000 hours.
But you don't need to baby the Sammy.
Use Movie mode.
Watch the Samsung like you normally would just avoid black bars
for long periods so the panel will age evenly.
From day one I had my E450 on 100 contrast daytime and 95 at night.
Cell Light at max 20 and Sharpness at 0 (= off.
Also it's good idea to leave it on 24/7 for the first 10 days at least
to get the kinks out. Overnight I left mine on the Tru and ID channels.
Run the b&w screen wiper an hour everyday if you can.
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post #217 of 730
8/19/12 at 1:23pm
Thanks for the info sonyfan.
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post #218 of 730
8/19/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1022 View Post

Thanks for the info sonyfan.

Glad to help.
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post #219 of 730
8/19/12 at 1:26pm
I will say even the short term IR occurs easily. I ran my Denon AVR through the Audessy setup maybe 15 minutes it was running and there is IR on the screen, the anti retention scroll bars seem to be taking care of it, but my goodness, I never saw IR happen so easily or quickly!
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post #220 of 730
8/19/12 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I will say even the short term IR occurs easily. I ran my Denon AVR through the Audessy setup maybe 15 minutes it was running and there is IR on the screen, the anti retention scroll bars seem to be taking care of it, but my goodness, I never saw IR happen so easily or quickly!

well you know what they say about the brightest blub........
It's interesting the scroll bar has a 15 min limit where the sammy has none.
If you can run the scroll bar for one hour you should have a slightly brighter and cleaner looking picture.
It's not a huge difference but I can see it on the sammy anyway.
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post #221 of 730
8/19/12 at 2:30pm
It just seems he panaonics are too sensitive to IR, I ran look at the accidental CNET test, sure over night I would expect IR, but the Samsung had none. I kno BB wants to try another VT50, but I feel like I,m wasting my Tim and their TV. I ran an ambient light behind the TV so I'm thinking the slight inference in blanks between the VT50 and the E8000 will be barely if even noticeable. And then I can watch TV without worrying about eat I am watching.
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post #222 of 730
8/19/12 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

It just seems he panaonics are too sensitive to IR, I ran look at the accidental CNET test, sure over night I would expect IR, but the Samsung had none. I kno BB wants to try another VT50, but I feel like I,m wasting my Tim and their TV. I ran an ambient light behind the TV so I'm thinking the slight inference in blanks between the VT50 and the E8000 will be barely if even noticeable. And then I can watch TV without worrying about eat I am watching.

You may want to research all on the Samsung and make sure the trade offs will be to your satisfaction and with EVERY panel there will be some form of trade offs no exceptions to date.
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post #223 of 730
8/19/12 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

You may want to research all on the Samsung and make sure the trade offs will be to your satisfaction and with EVERY panel there will be some form of trade offs no exceptions to date.

You took the words right out of my....well keyboard. biggrin.gif. I saw that post earlier and I was going to post almost your exact words. 2 of the biggest complaints I read constantly about the Sammy's is the fluctuating brightness issue and loud buzzing, plus the black levels aren't as deep as the Panasonic. I can deal with minor IR...because that's all it really is..minor. One guy I read traded his Panny VT50 for the Sammy E8000. He had way more positives to say about the VT50 although I don't think he's going to go through the trouble of doing another exchange. Panasonic would lose a ton of sales if their TV was the only one with issues.
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post #224 of 730
8/20/12 at 2:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

You may want to research all on the Samsung and make sure the trade offs will be to your satisfaction and with EVERY panel there will be some form of trade offs no exceptions to date.

I have been reading the E8000 threads an reviews. I am do on the fence, but since I spoke to the bob manager and have both their names I may try anther VT50 since they say if that one gets IR they will swap me into the Samsung. At this point I either set is better PQ than my 5 year od Panasonic, so even withbSamsung trade offs it should still be a sweet set if I have to go that way.
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post #225 of 730
8/20/12 at 4:20pm
Interesting observation today, I had always set my Panasonics to size 2 aspect which means no overscan. After reading about the pixel orbiter I decided to try an experiment. I set size to 1 and made sure the pixel orbiter was enabled. I then switched on CNBC for close to 2 hours. To my surprise I then checked with a white slide and had no hint of CNBC logo. I still see some of the scroll bars, but that was there before. I guess when the replacement VT50 comes I will break it in and set size 1 for the input from the dish receiver and then leave input 2 for BD and set it to size 2 and see what happens.
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post #226 of 730
8/20/12 at 4:48pm
so size 1 with orbiter enabled for general tv watching, but size 2 for full screen bluray movies without the orbiter? and then regular white bar treatments? i will do the same then, thanks.
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post #227 of 730
8/20/12 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

so size 1 with orbiter enabled for general tv watching, but size 2 for full screen bluray movies without the orbiter? and then regular white bar treatments? i will do the same then, thanks.

This is just an initial observation and will do some more research to vet this out.
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post #228 of 730
8/20/12 at 5:22pm
awesome, thanks and please let us know what more you find
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post #229 of 730
8/20/12 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I will say even the short term IR occurs easily. I ran my Denon AVR through the Audessy setup maybe 15 minutes it was running and there is IR on the screen, the anti retention scroll bars seem to be taking care of it, but my goodness, I never saw IR happen so easily or quickly!

I've run the Audyessy (Denon 2313) setup at least 4 times now on my 60GT50, plus went through the setups several times on my bd310 too. I haven't seen any IR. It seems that there is a difference between the models beyond THX.

BTW, my favorite station to watch is MSNBC and hubby's is Syfy.
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post #230 of 730
8/20/12 at 9:12pm
It would help if those experiencing IR post their brightness and contrast along with what picture mode they are running.
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post #231 of 730
8/21/12 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

Interesting observation today, I had always set my Panasonics to size 2 aspect which means no overscan. After reading about the pixel orbiter I decided to try an experiment. I set size to 1 and made sure the pixel orbiter was enabled. I then switched on CNBC for close to 2 hours. To my surprise I then checked with a white slide and had no hint of CNBC logo. I still see some of the scroll bars, but that was there before. I guess when the replacement VT50 comes I will break it in and set size 1 for the input from the dish receiver and then leave input 2 for BD and set it to size 2 and see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

so size 1 with orbiter enabled for general tv watching, but size 2 for full screen bluray movies without the orbiter? and then regular white bar treatments? i will do the same then, thanks.

When watching anything with static elements, use the "overscan" size1/2 whatever number it is and enable that pixel orbiter! There really doesn't need to be any research on this because it works. Its not taking anything away from your viewing. I have IR/burn from NOT using it, there's your proof.
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post #232 of 730
8/21/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

When watching anything with static elements, use the "overscan" size1/2 whatever number it is and enable that pixel orbiter! There really doesn't need to be any research on this because it works. Its not taking anything away from your viewing. I have IR/burn from NOT using it, there's your proof.

Well on my 5 year old Panasonic I never used overscan and never had burn in. As for my settings I use THX Cinema, I have since cranked down the brightness and contrast a bit after using S&M setup BD.
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post #233 of 730
8/21/12 at 12:21pm
How close have you looked? I feel that some people have it but don't look for it which is a better idea...
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post #234 of 730
8/21/12 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

How close have you looked? I feel that some people have it but don't look for it which is a better idea...

I agree with this that many people don't know r look and actually have IR.
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post #235 of 730
8/21/12 at 2:50pm
i kind of wish i never would have come across this thread, lol
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post #236 of 730
8/21/12 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

i kind of wish i never would have come across this thread, lol

Better to know the possibility of IR before than one day after months to find you have bad IR when you can do things up front to avoid or minimize it.
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post #237 of 730
8/22/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

so size 1 with orbiter enabled for general tv watching, but size 2 for full screen bluray movies without the orbiter? and then regular white bar treatments? i will do the same then, thanks.

What about DVDs, does this belong to general TV watching or should the orbiter be enabled, too?
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post #238 of 730
8/22/12 at 9:51am
resolution of content doesn't matter. netflix, dvd, blu ray etc etc etc as long as the entire screen is filled with content all the way to the edges along all sides then you don't need pixel orbiter. just use common sense.
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post #239 of 730
8/22/12 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

resolution of content doesn't matter. netflix, dvd, blu ray etc etc etc as long as the entire screen is filled with content all the way to the edges along all sides then you don't need pixel orbiter. just use common sense.

+2 and enjoy the TV quite worrying about things you can't see in normal viewing you will have less stress in your life.
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post #240 of 730
8/22/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

Well on my 5 year old Panasonic I never used overscan and never had burn in. As for my settings I use THX Cinema, I have since cranked down the brightness and contrast a bit after using S&M setup BD.

My parents have a Panny plasma about the same vintage. No overscan. No pixel orbiter. Brightness up (windows from floor to ceiling on one side). CNBC with tickers all day fives days a week. I hooked it up to my laptop PC when I was visiting, put some full screen single color images up, and looked at the screen with a magnifying glass. Not a hint of IR or burn-in anywhere.

Michael
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