Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 9

You want to use SIZE 1 with the pixel orbiter for any content that will have static images, such as logos or scrolling banners. For any DVD or BD material I like Size 2 because you get a direct 1:1 mapping of pixels in the content to pixels on the screen. That being said if you are sitting a certain distance a way it won't make a difference because 1080P even on a 65 inch screen at a certain distance you will not be able to see that level of detail.

I'd just like to add that I've been experiencing a lot of image retention with my 60ST50. I use cinema mode with its default settings for most of my viewing.

What size are you using for aspect 1 or 2 ? You should use 1 for anything that might have static logos.

Hello,
In the past 6 weeks, I have had 2 60GT50's. The first one was exchanged by Best Buy due to the Delivery Service stripping 2 screws on the pedestal. I called asking for them to send me 2 bloody screws and next thing I get an Email informing me that they were swapping out the TV's.

On both, I did somewhat baby it during the first 150 hours with almost wholly 1.78:1 source material. That being said, I have not experienced even a trace of IR let alone Burn In on either.. I do keep the Contrast no higher than 78 and Brightness well below 50. It seems for every xT50 Owner who has experienced it, there are about 9 who do not own one or even any Panasonic Plasma who are convinced this issue is rampant.

For potential owners who are scarred off by this thread, I highly recommend going to the Owners Thread of the particular model you are interested in. Unfortunately, there are some here on this thread who seem to have an agenda to be highly critical.
Cheers,
AD

To add to this you can also look at other forums where high end calibrators hang out and note they are very happy with these units along with general posters.

The reality is the 2012 Panasonic plasmas seem to be more prone to IR. my 5 year old Panasonic was fine no issues. What I have learned is that running on size 1 with pixel orbit or on is a necessity if you stay on anything wit stationary material/logos. I used to run my old plasma in size 2 exclusively, but with my VT50 it seems the best thing to do is run broadcast material in size 1 and then run DVD/BD/streaming in size 2 to maintain the 1:1 pixel ratio. Since I have done that there is no hint of new IR and almost all the old IR is gone. BB had already agreed to swap set so I will follow this practice on the replacement set I just received. Additionally I will run the break in slides as much as possible the first 2 weeks to get 150 on the set pronto. I still think Panasonic makes the best plasmas period! I also am glad I figured this all out with help from this forum because while the Samasung is a good we, I wanted the best and believe that for 2012 there is no better picture than on the Panasonics.

yeah if you follow the break in procedure to a T, then you shouldn't have much problem. I would go longer than 150 hours though. keep dim settings and pixel orbiter well into 500 hours,i would say, before your risk is reduced. kind of extreme, but you don't wanna risk ANY IR. IMO the risk of IR has been dangerously downplayed. thats how i got into trouble.

1) ZERO gaming first 150-200 hours, then the "standard" setting (NO cinema, THX etc) after that up until 500-750 hours minimum with pixel orbiter on
2) NO cinema, THX etc when watch cable, directv, etc. for first 500-750 hours either. use standard mode (and pixel orbiter too).

follow those 2 points, then you will not have any problem. i jsut hope this thread helps somebody avoid problems.

The problem seems to be an serious inconsistency with the panels from Panasonic themselves. I mean this is the second thread on Panny IR/burn-in here on AVS Forum. In the other thread, started today, the guy has had his Panny ST50 for 3 months and feels that he's experiencing BURN-IN, not IR. He triedeverything normally suggested to get rid of it with no luck. Now Amazon is taking it back without insisting on a Panny exchange. In this thread I've heard from several experienced plasma owners that did everything correctly in breaking in their new display and still had serious problems while others have done absolutely nothing to protect their display and have not a hint of IR. With all this information right in front of us how can we not consider the product defective? I'm not going to roll the dice and hope I get lucky. What's going on at the factory that allows for some good ones and some bad ones?

Again, I say that some people either aren't looking very hard or are only looking during regular content from 8' away and saying "I see no IR" while others - like myself - are using solid gray or colored slides under dark ambient light with my face right in front of the screen to look for IR. it's not a very scientific test and some people are more sensitive to it than others. I think that is the reason for this inconsistency, not some manufacturing defect. They are all the same but visual acuity varys from person to person.

you know, i don't really understand why all the manufacturers went to this "ultra thin panel" technology. it seems that it sacrificed a lot in terms of PQ and panel reliability. I can say that, at least for the LCD tech (never owned a plasma until this summer) that the CCFL backlit panels were WAY better in PQ than the newer LED backlit models. I wonder if the same problem occurred for plasma as well and that's explains all this crap. i'd rather have kuro technology or better and a thicker/heavier panel than the crap they try and push by us today with a marginally thinner screen. oh well.

People who would do this are the people who need to stay away from plasma tv's although people who do this will probably not be happy with any television.

I'm not sure I agree that there is panel inconsistency. I believe that it has a lot to do with what people are watching and how they have the set configured. Size 1 and pixel orbiter is pretty much a necessity on anything that has stationary logos. Once I started doing that my IR almost disappeared.

Panasonic is goo g through a terrible QC period.

Had 4 panas over 12 months.

All had bad line bleed (my current lg doesn't have any)

All had uniformity issues due the anti reflective coating on the glass

One got channel logos burnt in (got burn in from watching 2 hours of sport on thx setting)

Hopefully they start to take things seriously

Believe this or not, and many panny owners here will dispute this, but Samsung is not have this problem in anything close to the amount that Panny is. Now it's either bad design or poor quality control. Probably a combination of both. How else can you explain one experienced Panny plasma owner, who knows how to break in a plasma and knows how to configure a set and to be careful of what he is watching including contrast and brightness settings having severe, not minor, but severe IR problems while another owner just turning on his set and doing nothing to protect it and yet has no IR problems at all?

I do believe that Samsung Exxx models are more IR resistant but from reading threads on a couple of North American forums, I feel relatively comfortable in stating that Panasonic ST/GT/VT50 purchasers outnumber the former by a huge amount - If I were to guess, the ratio would be something greater than 10:1. Now the old adage on forums is that only people who have problems log onto these forums. I believe this is over-exaggerated on various TV and computer forums I frequent. There are plenty of people who join forums like these who do not join to complain but to share their experiences with their TV who, whilst their TVs have the usual limitations of mass production and built to a price , are quite happy. Then you have to add in the "purchase validator" types. Simply put, the Samsung Exxxx thread is relatively low in terms of actual numbers of owners and I have read the thread assiduously for almost 2 months. No doubt, if the Exxx Samsungs were sold remotely in the numbers of the Panasonics there would be a lot more complaints.

Well I'm one of those peoples who do that (it actually can been seen even further away with certain image, like TV-commercials with solid colors) but I was very happy with my old Panasonic plasma for 7-8 years. I still have that TV (moved to bedroom) and I think it has been used for at least about 15000 hours. I just checked its screen with solid color patterns and there is absolutely no sign of any burn in or IR and it does not have any vertical lines and such as my new ST50 has. My ST50 has about 300 hours and all I need is to display something with bright text (like DVD-recorder menu) for 30 seconds or even much less and I get temporary IR. It clears out in couples of minutes watching TV. I never had this issue with my old set. Also my ST has that vertical line(s) as many have mentioned.

I'm using my ST with very low contrast (50%) but I have tried even lower and it still seems to get temporary IR same way. I also have limited my actual TV watching to absolute minimum (due to channel logos) and just trying to get lots of hours on it by running over zoomed image hoping it will get less prone to IR when it ages. I'm planning to do this until it reaches 1000 hours. I did the same with my old Panasonic plasma too, even it never showed me any sign of IR even in early days so I'm afraid that my ST50 will stay like it is.

I was hoping to be able to calibrate my new TV but currently there is no way I dare to display window test patterns needed during calibration (it will easily take couple of hours or even more for hobbyist like me).

Picture wise plasma screen is the only TV type I would even consider.
Edited by Big Lebowski - 8/26/12 at 3:45am

Thank you for this post, I will be printing this off for my use after the panel prep slides. Since I haven't had the TV on yet, I am not familar with the settings. Is it ok to use cinema or THX when watching a bluray that does not have any black bars? And when you are talking about setting 1 and setting 2, is that what they are labeled as on the tv? Thanks.

yeah perfectly fine. even dvds are ok. like i said in a prev post, resolution doesn't matter, just as long as the image fills screen.

as far as size 1 or size 2 i think it is different depending on what setting or input you are using if i remember correctly, just use the size that "trims a portion of the screen" as it says in the description. good luck

never saw any goo on my television, although i did sneeze on it once

I feel like i want to unsubscribe to this thread. all i ever hear on these sorts of forums is negative comments.

Keep in mind good info occasionally rears it head you just have to sort through the posts to figure whose trolling or campaigning their brand versus Panasonic and sometimes its entertaining and easy to spot when said poster does not even own one and repeats a line from another thread not realizing the info was disproved threads earlier like I said its cheap entertainment at their expense free for our amusement.

lol when you put it like that...

So it has a feature to prevent Image retention but you guys claim that image Retention isn't a problem....Seriously??

I will say that I have IR problems with my LCD TV but its an older model(2008) and it is a Proscan (read this as a cheap TV.)

The problem is said to be much less likely on LCDs from what I have read in my extensive searching about my own issues with IR. What LCDs Don't suffer from and this should be pointed out to people considering buying a plasma.....Burn in(which I am sure is as unlikely for a plasma to get as getting an LCD with IR problems) The potential for burn-in(no matter how small) scares me away from plasma. My colors might become slightly off on a greyish screen for a day or two sometimes BUT it can't be permanently burned into my screen (unless I left the same image on for maybe 10,000 hours or something like in a business setting(billboards and such). and my LCD while it may be old(1080i Model) The picture is Gorgeous.

My ultimate point is IR should be a MAJOR consideration for a normal user. I actually have had to turn my brightness and contrast down slightly to keep the problem to a minimum, the result of which is being unable to use my TV to the fullest. Does it matter that these TVs have the brightest brights and the darkest darks if you can't safely use it to its full potential.

If you only watch movies on disk with no logos then for sure completely ignore the potential problem IR poses. Otherwise take some time do you research and make sure you get a brand that has a low occurence of IR.

The picture can be a 100 on a scale of 1 to 10 but if there are after images and crap all over the place trust me its gonna stop looking sexy.

Since discovering the IR issues in my TV I have had to greatly alter my viewing habits, I have to constantly think about what is on my screen and it really takes away from the joy of having a beautiful HDTV. If you are a normal user who plays video games too long, watches cable, note that both styles of TVs have this potential(more likely with plasma) and that it can really get away from just enjoying your set.

This post is not to say that this is an issue for these TVs as I do not own one,(however the fact that features have been included to treat it or prevent it definitely lead me to believe its an issue) the point of my post is to stop you guys from claiming IR doesn't happen. It is a concern for both LCD and Plasma TVs.

EDIT: One thing of note however:
LCD screens basically have 0 chance of Image persistence(LCD equivalent of IR) when they are new and the chance increases with age. Plus side is I don't have to do anything special with my TV to fix it(all white image will make it go away a lot quicker though) it will go away with the tv off.
Apparently for Plasma it is the opposite and the chance goes down with time (From what I have read on this thread) but if you get it you must spend hours or days running content intended to get rid of the problem(if you can at all.)
Edited by Will Frommelt - 9/6/12 at 2:17am

I don't have a ST50. But I do currently have the 2011 Panasonic ST30. I have also known may others with older Panasonic plasma's. I really love this TV!!! No problems. On my ST30, I noticed IR 3 or 4 times after very long sessions with logo or still graphic content, all lasting 5 or 10 seconds. I really suggest any new buyers of any Plasma to buy what they like and NEVER come back to this forum. God, people are actually watching colored slides a few inches from the TV glass to look for IR...LMAO:D. Another suggestion to plasma owners doing that. Stop doing that, return the TV and buy a inferior LED LCD. I'll take a few seconds of IR any day over motion blur, neon colors and overly unrealistic sharpness (plasma's, especially Pioneer and Panasonic's I have seen are realistically sharp in a real world way).

P.S. Never owned a Samsung, but their plasma's have always looked good, but I will always buy Panasonic based on knowing many happy customers in the flesh.
Edited by nyislesfan - 9/6/12 at 9:45pm

I'm glad this is the last post I read in this thread after pulling the trigger today.

Would still argue in favor of mixed usage, with a high percentage of Full-Screen No Static Image material, at least for the first several hundred hours.

Our 60ST50 did not "overcome" its tendency toward Quick Onset IR until it was past 400 hours usage.

Panel is currently over 5 months old, and IR - under any usage I would consider "normal" - simply no longer appears to be a problem.

We do NOT game, nor do we use the panel as a super-large computer monitor. However, as have posted a number of times, this panel had problems with Bright Static Images, most notably the Uverse "GUIDE" lettering, ESPN logo, and ENCORE HD logo (and note that I am talking in terms of visibility during NORMAL programming - not just selected slides. Admittedly, certain backgrounds revealed the IR, while MOST backgrounds hid them - but you did not have to resort to slides to see the IR.)

These same sources no longer leave visible IR - again, with normal usage.

Happy camper at the moment.....

Couple of questions since I'm kind of on the fence about this specific TV. Since Panasonic is using a new panel for the 2012 displays could that be causing the higher than 2011 IR problem? Since the new display's have a new brighter picture could that be the difference? Why is it that some people (experienced plasma owners) have 0 incidence of IR while others (experienced plasma owners) are having major problems? It's pretty much accepted that for whatever reason the 2012 Samsung's are experiencing far less IR problems. There are many very serious Panasonic insiders here and I'm just wondering if they have any insight.

I can just give you my experience with the 51" Samsung E8000 (of which I have had two and both have been returned. A long story why - I started a thread on my travails on this. More to do with refurbished TVs sold as new). I found that with station logos whether opaque or not, the 51E8000 was really very good. I tested this a fair bit with my second TV which I had the longest. I watched a lot of Golf, easily 5 hours a day each day over the weekend, F1, other network programs, and it really was very good. I would check afterwards, just for the hang of it with slides, and there was essentially nothing to get concerned about. Something almost like a bit of non-uniformity there which did not last long. However, CNBC did not fare as well. I was very careful with this, watching for an hour or so and then checking. You could see image retention from the scrolling bars on the screen which would show up on an ad with large areas of white or grey. Watching normal content with all the "junk" on the screen that comes with CNBC resulted in it dissipating in about an hour or so. Perhaps more. I would not do CNBC 6 hour marathons with this TV. And this was after my TV had some 200+ hours on it (the set was not "new" out of the box with 94 hours already on it).

In any event, I am getting a 55" GT50 which was *supposed* to be delivered today but that is another story. I am expecting less IR resistance (although the 51" E8000 is clearly not as fantastic for IR resistance as may be believed - the 60" models are apparently a lot better). I will simply subscribe to CNBC Pro which will cost about $30 a month for live feeds and watch on my 23" computer monitor. In the first 200+ hours I will simply crank down my contrast in Cinema mode, be judicious in my choice of programming and thereafter go from there.
Edited by PeterG - 9/12/12 at 5:52pm

Hello,
I really think you are going to love the 55GT50. I have now broken in 3 60GT50's and have yet to experience any form of IR. The latest one I received on Friday and has an August 2012 Manufacturing Date.

Like the other 2, I only watched 1:78 Source Material for the first 100 hours, kept TV Stations with logos to a bare minimum, and used nothing brighter than Cnet Recommended Settings. Using the default Standard Picture Mode would be cruel as it seems only to be there to show low energy consumption. It is way too dark.

When my first 60GT50 was being exchanged due to BB not being able to simply provide me with 2 bloody screws that the Delivery Guys stripped, I tried Gaming for hours, 3D Movies, etc in the 3 days leading up to the exchange with not even a hint of IR.

Perhaps I am lucky and ended up with 3 excellent panels, but with one built July, 2012, another April, 2012, and finally the most recent being August 2012, it does seem like a pretty large sample size. I do believe taking easy during the first 100-150 hours is quite important, but using common sense thereafter will lead to a trouble free experience. I now do not think twice of watching NFL and TV Channels with logos for hours on the TV I got on Friday as I ran it 24/7 until I hit 100 hours.
Cheers,
AD

Thanks but I'm not going to baby a TV. I'm going to unpack it, put it on the wall, then watch TV and play xbox like I normally do. I have 30 days to return it and if I'm having issues I'll send it back. Unless it says in the instruction manual to run slides I'm not doing it. Sounds about as useful as breaking in speakers to me honestly. I have found no hard proof that this does anything. If that is really the case they need to do this before they are shipped or put it in the manual to not use it like a normal TV.

Well they have put this in the manual to, in effect, be careful. So Video games etc for extended periods may be a problem, although they have not stated it as explicitly as Samsung do. To quote from the manual available online:

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and is not covered by the warranty.

Typical still images
Channel number and other logos
Image displayed in 4:3 mode
SD Card photo Video game Computer image