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Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 14

post #391 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

i've tried it. it doesn't work any better than normal fullscreen content. trust me, i'm not making this up there isn't any "sputtering" effect. first hand experience talking here.
just watch normal programming and if it isn't gone within 1-2 weeks of normal viewing then for all intents and purposes it will be there in some form or another for the life of the set. it's the uneven pixel aging that is the biggest problem. which is why it is imperitive to allow the set to age in the beginning.
I've been following this thread (non-plasma owner, sorry) and I have to ask: If the solution is that simple, why the hell don't the panel makers pre age their panels? I mean if you're going to pay a couple of KiloBucks for a high end device, shouldn't you expect it to just work? I believe you guys when you say plasma has great PQ but I still can't convince myself that it's worth the hassle.
post #392 of 756
Anyone have any experience with these Panny pro displays and IR?

I'm probably going to buy one of these:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/TH-42PF50U.asp

Simply because I want nothing bigger than 42" and 42" plasmas don't exist anymore except for this "pro" model.
post #393 of 756
Update:

I went into Best Buy, talked with the floor manager and had the TV replaced. Set it up last night, put it through its paces and here is my conclusion.

Old tv build date April 2012, new TV October 2012

rapid onset IR- old set would retain any still image onscreen for more than 5 seconds, i.e., HDMI labels, stationary objects ect ect. New tv shows no sign of.this issue. This panel is only about 5 hours old, and some people say the problem got worse before it got better. Will keep an eye out for it.

Vertical Bands, right side of screen- old tv had 2 distinct bands, visible in most solid color backgrounds (every commercial out there). New tv, none present

Dirty Screen Effect (DSE)- didnt realize the old tv had this issue until I saw the new one do the IR sweep. Cant describe the difference, but the new TV is clean, white, and consistent during the IR sweep. Old tv (by memory) looked dusty dirty during the sweep.

Electric Hum during bright scenes- no change. I tested for all external variables and interference. I the tv though. Not as bad as the whine old CRT's used to have, but I hear it still. Might consider some fabric on the wall behind the TV to cut down on the echo/projection of sound.

Green sparkles: old tv had green sparkles in any dark colors past brightness 58. The repairman and repair call center said this is not normal, however, the new tv is doing the exact same thing. My LG 55lm7600 is broken and they will be here monday to look at it. Im going to have this guy look at this issue again. I requested a new repairman as the last guy was more.concerned with watching CNN on election day that looking at my TV. Ill update you, but I assume this is probably a normal (ish) function of the tv. From a great enough distance you dont see it, but the effect is still felt. If my wife can feel it, its happening.

Line bleed- hard to describe effect, but I saw it constantly, was hard to accept that it was normal. Repairman said line bleed is something Id have to live with to a degree, but it was excessive i tbought. As it turns out, the new tv has like 10% of the line bleed the first one did. Its there if you really look hard to find it, ut I in no way see it in regular programming anymore. Im extremely pleased with the improvement and assume this is what was considered normal mild line bleed in the official reviews.

Test patterns: i never knew what test patterns the old tv failed or why, just that it did. The repair guy told me it failed and I believed him. I will update this monday as well if the repairman for my LG set has anything to add.

Pixel Orbiter Random Functionality: using the factory firmware on the first set, I found that the pixel orbiter was not functioning consistently in "size 2" mode (no trimming of borders). I did this by placing a small spot of silly putty on a fixed point in the image. It never moved on the first set unless I switched back and forth between size 1 & 2. After switching back and forth and observing I saw the image move relative to the silly putty. I still need to perform this check, but Im going to assume its working for now.

Conclusion:
The new set looks brighter and more clean/crisp. This could be from the panel being so young again, or the old panel just stunk. Its not so bright clean or "poppy" as my LCD, but its alot better than the original. Without the rapid onset IR occurring Im hoping the set will not be susceptible to burn like the first. Havent played Borderlands 2 yet (source of original burn), nor am I going to baby this panel for a hundred hours. Im going to use it like my brother did on his 55ST30 and expect the same results. In addition, the guys at best buy pricematched the set and threw in an extra 20bucks for my troubles, so i used the 80dollars to buy halo4 and some candy for the kids.

Its fair to say the last tv had aome issues that were addressed in the later production runs. Not sure what firmware Im using, but with an Oct build Im assuming its the 1.2version

Good luck all, and thanks for reading
Edited by allWhiteMeat - 11/10/12 at 7:45pm
post #394 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

As a last resort I tried full screen white image to remove that burned logo. I ran it for two hours and it nearly cleared it. Then I ran it another three hours but it did not make any difference. So in the end it is nearly gone but I can still find it so it is better avoid channels with bright logos even after 1000 hours use.
I have contacted Panasonic support and first person told me this is abnormal but second level engineer says it could be within specs. I ask them to send engineer to confirm but they said it cannot be done on site because they need dismantle it first to be able to evaluate picture... confused.gif
If they found it faulty they will change the screen or what ever part they think is faulty but they will not send me a new unit, great. mad.gif
It is confusing how some peoples here report having IR and burn-in problem even after going through several units and some never seen any. Sound like there are good and bad units but then again considering some have tried several units from different batches it does not sound possible.
I cannot remember seeing anyone who has been suffering from these problems reporting that they have found a new unit without this problem or that their set was serviced and problem is gone. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I really don't know what to do.

I just posted my response to this stuff. Wanted to point out my experience and summation directly to you. Obviously some sets are good some are bad. Some people have a hard time admitting that because they feel their one set out of the thousands of sets out there is fine. The new.set I just got shows vast improvement in some areas. Its been one day so things could always change. When my brother came to help me carry the old set to the store he remarked on how bad the rapid IR was. Like switching the HDMI input back and forth left a mark. Went away after a few minutes. My new set has no issue so far. I mean none. I dont remember if the first set was the same in the beginning, but this one is better than the first one was in the end.

It still buzzes, and its not outside interference or the wall outlet. Ive troubleshot it to death
post #395 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by allWhiteMeat View Post

Update:
I went into Best Buy, talked with the floor manager and had the TV replaced. Set it up last night, put it through its paces and here is my conclusion.
Old tv build date April 2012, new TV October 2012
rapid onset IR- old set would retain any still image onscreen for more than 5 seconds, i.e., HDMI labels, stationary objects ect ect. New tv shows no sign of.this issue. This panel is only about 5 hours old, and some people say the problem got worse before it got better. Will keep an eye out for it.
Vertical Bands, right side of screen- old tv had 2 distinct bands, visible in most solid color backgrounds (every commercial out there). New tv, none present
Dirty Screen Effect (DSE)- didnt realize the old tv had this issue until I saw the new one do the IR sweep. Cant describe the difference, but the new TV is clean, white, and consistent during the IR sweep. Old tv (by memory) looked dusty dirty during the sweep.
Electric Hum during bright scenes- no change. I tested for all external variables and interference. I the tv though. Not as bad as the whine old CRT's used to have, but I hear it still. Might consider some fabric on the wall behind the TV to cut down on the echo/projection of sound.
Green sparkles: old tv had green sparkles in any dark colors past brightness 58. The repairman and repair call center said this is not normal, however, the new tv is doing the exact same thing. My LG 55lm7600 is broken and they will be here monday to look at it. Im going to have this guy look at this issue again. I requested a new repairman as the last guy was more.concerned with watching CNN on election day that looking at my TV. Ill update you, but I assume this is probably a normal (ish) function of the tv. From a great enough distance you dont see it, but the effect is still felt. If my wife can feel it, its happening.
Line bleed- hard to describe effect, but I saw it constantly, was hard to accept that it was normal. Repairman said line bleed is something Id have to live with to a degree, but it was excessive i tbought. As it turns out, the new tv has like 10% of the line bleed the first one did. Its there if you really look hard to find it, ut I in no way see it in regular programming anymore. Im extremely pleased with the improvement and assume this is what was considered normal mild line bleed in the official reviews.
Test patterns: i never knew what test patterns the old tv failed or why, just that it did. The repair guy told me it failed and I believed him. I will update this monday as well if the repairman for my LG set has anything to add.
Pixel Orbiter Random Functionality: using the factory firmware on the first set, I found that the pixel orbiter was not functioning consistently in "size 2" mode (no trimming of borders). I did this by placing a small spot of silly putty on a fixed point in the image. It never moved on the first set unless I switched back and forth between size 1 & 2. After switching back and forth and observing I saw the image move relative to the silly putty. I still need to perform this check, but Im going to assume its working for now.
Conclusion:
The new set looks brighter and more clean/crisp. This could be from the panel being so young again, or the old panel just stunk. Its not so bright clean or "poppy" as my LCD, but its alot better than the original. Without the rapid onset IR occurring Im hoping the set will not be susceptible to burn like the first. Havent played Borderlands 2 yet (source of original burn), nor am I going to baby this panel for a hundred hours. Im going to use it like my brother did on his 55ST30 and expect the same results. In addition, the guys at best buy pricematched the set and threw in an extra 20bucks for my troubles, so i used the 80dollars to buy halo4 and some candy for the kids.
Its fair to say the last tv had aome issues that were addressed in the later production runs. Not sure what firmware Im using, but with an Oct build Im assuming its the 1.2version
Good luck all, and thanks for reading

this is good to know. thanks for being thourough and unbiased. hopefully you will enjoy the tv now. as an aside, the worst part about these tvs is the line bleed imo. it can be reduced with a good calibration but once you notice it, it's hard not to see it. the ST/GT/VT would be nearly perfect if not for the line bleed.
post #396 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I've been following this thread (non-plasma owner, sorry) and I have to ask: If the solution is that simple, why the hell don't the panel makers pre age their panels? I mean if you're going to pay a couple of KiloBucks for a high end device, shouldn't you expect it to just work? I believe you guys when you say plasma has great PQ but I still can't convince myself that it's worth the hassle.

sure by that mentality if you pay 1 million dollars for a house you just expect everything to be in perfect condition with no work or input. or buy a used farrari for 100,000 and expect there to be zero problems or maintenance. the truth is, sometimes the more expensive items require MORE effort than the cheap stuff (even though these tvs are priced very competitively imo)

these tvs require something like 500+ hours to age. just think about how much that would cost a manufacturing plant? time=money plus these things don't use a negligible amount of power therefore they will just ship the units out and let the user deal with it. the "aging" thing seems to be a hot topic but in my experience at least has a moderate effect on IR. plus, what GOOD reason do you have NOT to do it?
post #397 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

sure by that mentality if you pay 1 million dollars for a house you just expect everything to be in perfect condition with no work or input. or buy a used farrari for 100,000 and expect there to be zero problems or maintenance. the truth is, sometimes the more expensive items require MORE effort than the cheap stuff (even though these tvs are priced very competitively imo)
these tvs require something like 500+ hours to age. just think about how much that would cost a manufacturing plant? time=money plus these things don't use a negligible amount of power therefore they will just ship the units out and let the user deal with it. the "aging" thing seems to be a hot topic but in my experience at least has a moderate effect on IR. plus, what GOOD reason do you have NOT to do it?
If I bought a new house or a new Ferrari I would expect it to work properly. Why would you age a plasma for 500 hours if it only has a 'moderate effect'? Most of the other posts claim the amount of aging to be around 100 hours or less. But if aging isn't the answer to IR, then what is? I for one believe that crippling your viewing options isn't a viable solution either.
post #398 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

If I bought a new house or a new Ferrari I would expect it to work properly. Why would you age a plasma for 500 hours if it only has a 'moderate effect'? Most of the other posts claim the amount of aging to be around 100 hours or less. But if aging isn't the answer to IR, then what is? I for one believe that crippling your viewing options isn't a viable solution either.

100 hours is too short. 200 is better but really you want more than 500 before you really notice a difference. this is also why calibrators recommend waiting this long before calibrating. really, what is a few hundred hours out of thousands anyway? if you have a problem with it then get LCD that's why they were invented, for people who don't care about picture quality and "just want it to work"
post #399 of 756
I find it odd, the discrepancies in panels with IR..I've had mine about 2 weeks now and never took precautions or ran any slides. I watch whatever I want and play video games and have had no IR at all. I even ran slides to check. I just hope my luck continues with this panel. BTW..this is my first plasma after a life time of LCD and I love this thing..
post #400 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by allWhiteMeat View Post

I just posted my response to this stuff. Wanted to point out my experience and summation directly to you. Obviously some sets are good some are bad. Some people have a hard time admitting that because they feel their one set out of the thousands of sets out there is fine. The new.set I just got shows vast improvement in some areas. Its been one day so things could always change. When my brother came to help me carry the old set to the store he remarked on how bad the rapid IR was. Like switching the HDMI input back and forth left a mark. Went away after a few minutes. My new set has no issue so far. I mean none. I dont remember if the first set was the same in the beginning, but this one is better than the first one was in the end.
It still buzzes, and its not outside interference or the wall outlet. Ive troubleshot it to death

Thanks for posting this reply. You are the first one I've seen confirming that replacement set was much better and that it cured IR problem. It would be nice if you could report if IR is still gone after you have used it over 100 hours. Mine started IR problem after first 100 hours.
Still your new set seems promising since no vertical bands, DSE or line bleed. Mine has those three features too and they were there from the day one and no change in over 1000 hours of use.

Seems that you got very recently build set. I wonder if they have done some improvements in latest batches or were you just lucky to get good unit (or perhaps they send you a golden sample).

Descripition of your previous set matches to my set precisely. Basically any bright objet (like any bright TV OSD) leave a mark that clears out within couple of minutes.
I wish I could have my set replaced with the new one but it seems impossible. Only possibility is to take it to repair shop and let them first dismantle it and then evaluate image and see if they think it is within specs or not.
post #401 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

Thanks for posting this reply. You are the first one I've seen confirming that replacement set was much better and that it cured IR problem. It would be nice if you could report if IR is still gone after you have used it over 100 hours. Mine started IR problem after first 100 hours.
Still your new set seems promising since no vertical bands, DSE or line bleed. Mine has those three features too and they were there from the day one and no change in over 1000 hours of use.
Seems that you got very recently build set. I wonder if they have done some improvements in latest batches or were you just lucky to get good unit (or perhaps they send you a golden sample).
Descripition of your previous set matches to my set precisely. Basically any bright objet (like any bright TV OSD) leave a mark that clears out within couple of minutes.
I wish I could have my set replaced with the new one but it seems impossible. Only possibility is to take it to repair shop and let them first dismantle it and then evaluate image and see if they think it is within specs or not.

yeah that sucks that you cant just replace the set. I asked the best buy guys to check the build dates of the sets they had in the back, mine was the most recent they had. So far the set is holding up. No IR issues, though I understand it could reappear after 100 hours. Ive been playing Borderlands 2, Blackops2 and Halo4, no IR from any game so far. Im keeping my eyes peeled for any new IR issues, and will defintely come back occasionaly and report on the set.

For the record, games that run at 30fps dont look all that great in "game mode". Its hard to describe, but you get alot of video stutter when moving. Not motion blur, but stutter, where a single object appears multiple times simultaneously while panning. Turning on motion enhancement to medium takes care of the problem but introduces a small amount of video/input lag. Black ops 2 runs at 60fps, and in game mode it looks amazing. No stutter, no video/input lag at all. Infact, I cant tell the difference between game mode and custom mode (where I have motion enhancement turned on), so I leave it in game mode. Hopefully more games in the Xbox720 run at 60fps, becuase this TV loves 60fps. 30fps, not so much. I understand that the Samsung doesnt have any type of motion enhancement, only the Panasonic does. With the IR not being an issue (on my current set, so far) and the motion enhancement, I would highly recommend this set for gamers. Still waiting on a pair of 3d glasses to test out blackops2 in 3D. Which oddly enough, Im going to be buying the Samsung Bluetooth 3D glasses, becuase Ive heard that they have less crosstalk than the Panasonic glasses. We shall see.
post #402 of 756
This whole thing seems absurd. 500 hours to break-in? I agree that at this point the manufacturer should break-in and the consumers are making the issue much worse by playing it down.

If I left this thing on for 14 hours a day, that would be over a month to use it. Think about that, you buy a TV and essentially should not use it fully for an entire month, longer if you clock less break-in hours per day.

I just pulled the trigger on a GT50 which is ready for pickup tonight... I am honestly thinking about initiating a return immediately. I may sacrifice a SMALL amount of image quality for the piece of mind of never having to worry about IR or worse yet, full burn-in.
post #403 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

This whole thing seems absurd. 500 hours to break-in? I agree that at this point the manufacturer should break-in and the consumers are making the issue much worse by playing it down.
If I left this thing on for 14 hours a day, that would be over a month to use it. Think about that, you buy a TV and essentially should not use it fully for an entire month, longer if you clock less break-in hours per day.
I just pulled the trigger on a GT50 which is ready for pickup tonight... I am honestly thinking about initiating a return immediately. I may sacrifice a SMALL amount of image quality for the piece of mind of never having to worry about IR or worse yet, full burn-in.

I would witness it for yourself, many have zero IR issues. You can listen to the mass hysteria or take some of the reports here with a grain of salt. Just my 2 cents
post #404 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

100 hours is too short. 200 is better but really you want more than 500 before you really notice a difference. this is also why calibrators recommend waiting this long before calibrating. really, what is a few hundred hours out of thousands anyway? if you have a problem with it then get LCD that's why they were invented, for people who don't care about picture quality and "just want it to work"

Which calibrator recommends a 500 hour break in ? 150 to 200 hours is generally recommended.
post #405 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

This whole thing seems absurd. 500 hours to break-in? I agree that at this point the manufacturer should break-in and the consumers are making the issue much worse by playing it down.
If I left this thing on for 14 hours a day, that would be over a month to use it. Think about that, you buy a TV and essentially should not use it fully for an entire month, longer if you clock less break-in hours per day.
I just pulled the trigger on a GT50 which is ready for pickup tonight... I am honestly thinking about initiating a return immediately. I may sacrifice a SMALL amount of image quality for the piece of mind of never having to worry about IR or worse yet, full burn-in.

I did about 0 seconds of break in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I would witness it for yourself, many have zero IR issues. You can listen to the mass hysteria or take some of the reports here with a grain of salt. Just my 2 cents

... and have 0 image-retention issues.
post #406 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I did about 0 seconds of break in...
... and have 0 image-retention issues.

Hard to explain wink.gif You're obviously in denial trying to justify your purchase biggrin.gif
post #407 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

Thanks for posting this reply. You are the first one I've seen confirming that replacement set was much better and that it cured IR problem. It would be nice if you could report if IR is still gone after you have used it over 100 hours. Mine started IR problem after first 100 hours.
Still your new set seems promising since no vertical bands, DSE or line bleed. Mine has those three features too and they were there from the day one and no change in over 1000 hours of use.
Seems that you got very recently build set. I wonder if they have done some improvements in latest batches or were you just lucky to get good unit (or perhaps they send you a golden sample).
Descripition of your previous set matches to my set precisely. Basically any bright objet (like any bright TV OSD) leave a mark that clears out within couple of minutes.
I wish I could have my set replaced with the new one but it seems impossible. Only possibility is to take it to repair shop and let them first dismantle it and then evaluate image and see if they think it is within specs or not.

Well make me the second person you saw confirming a replacement from Panasonic cured my issue although my solution was slightly different. I had the exact same issues as the other poster. I had 2 vertical bands on the far right of my GT50 and one on the left side. IR was so bad that I couldn't even turn on the menu to adjust the picture without leaving an image of the menu ghosted on the screen. I've had IR issues since day one. Called Panasonic about my issues with the vertical banding (did not bother mentioning the IR issues as it's "acceptable") and they sent the technician to my house. The tech immediately verified the vertical bands and took my TV away to their repair center. Panasonic authorized a panel replacement which they had to order and it took almost a month. They brought my TV back to my house and it's absolutely beautiful. No DSE, no vertical bands and I can't even get the panel to reproduce any IR. I've watched FOX Sports all day with logos and none of them created IR. ESPN can't create any IR. The Panasonic menus don't leave any IR, nor does the Viera Connect which always did. So far so good. My TV was an early build back in March. It does appear that Panasonic is addressing this issue quietly.
post #408 of 756
I cant speak for everyone but my experience on my 60 ST50 is not too bad.

If I watch sports with fixed score tickers or huge network logos for a few hours then I will get some image retention. The image retention cannot be noticed during normal TV viewing for the most part but can be noticed on a screen that is solid white/grey.

If I watch a movie with "black bars" that does not fit the screen entirely I get IR for the black bars after about 5 minutes. Again this is noticeable on any white/grey screen.

I get rid of my IR pretty easily by watching regular TV for 10-15 minutes.

My TV is about 1 month old with less than 150 hours on it. I will continue to monitor IR and see if it decreases with age.

I can totally see someone who constantly watches sports, movies with black bars, or games (with huds fixed on screen) all the time without watching some regular viewing content that entirely fills the screen getting some severe IR or even burn in.

People like this of course are going to get pissed, blame the tv, and assume that their viewing habits are normal and its not their fault.
In reality these people are at fault for not researching the technology behind the purchase they made and realizing that plasma is not suited for their intended usage model.
post #409 of 756
posts deleted: a member given a time out for a few days

in the future: report a problematic post: please do not quote or respond to it: you guys should know better
post #410 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

posts deleted: a member given a time out for a few days
in the future: report a problematic post: please do not quote or respond to it: you guys should know better

You're right - i do know better. I apologize. redface.gif
post #411 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

You're right - i do know better. I apologize. redface.gif

Ditto point taken
post #412 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFreak View Post

I can totally see someone who constantly watches sports, movies with black bars, or games (with huds fixed on screen) all the time without watching some regular viewing content that entirely fills the screen getting some severe IR or even burn in.
People like this of course are going to get pissed, blame the tv, and assume that their viewing habits are normal and its not their fault.
In reality these people are at fault for not researching the technology behind the purchase they made and realizing that plasma is not suited for their intended usage model.

I can't say that your post is being fair. Those viewing habits you mentioned ARE normal viewing habits. For the most part, unless you're watching Blu-ray content or movies ordered through Netflix or the like you're going to experience logos that cause IR. Even those Blu-rays and Netflix movies have letterbox and some of the more recent movies such as The Artist which is a silent movie in 4:3. Normal viewing habits are turning the TV on and watching it, period. Hitting the Zoom button to stretch out the screen to avoid the black bars, trying to find channels without station logos, turning down the contrast during the "break-in" period, having to educate your entire family on how to use a Plasma by doing all of the above and knowing they will do just the opposite when your back is turned IS NOT NORMAL.
It IS exactly the manufacturer's fault, why should the customer be blamed? It's not like the TV stations give a damn about your TV getting IR from those ridiculous logos. Plasma technology should be built better to withstand such programming. We're almost into 2013. Plasma has been out long enough and the technology should've been improved.
post #413 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

I can't say that your post is being fair. Those viewing habits you mentioned ARE normal viewing habits. For the most part, unless you're watching Blu-ray content or movies ordered through Netflix or the like you're going to experience logos that cause IR. Even those Blu-rays and Netflix movies have letterbox and some of the more recent movies such as The Artist which is a silent movie in 4:3. Normal viewing habits are turning the TV on and watching it, period. Hitting the Zoom button to stretch out the screen to avoid the black bars, trying to find channels without station logos, turning down the contrast during the "break-in" period, having to educate your entire family on how to use a Plasma by doing all of the above and knowing they will do just the opposite when your back is turned IS NOT NORMAL.
It IS exactly the manufacturer's fault, why should the customer be blamed? It's not like the TV stations give a damn about your TV getting IR from those ridiculous logos. Plasma technology should be built better to withstand such programming. We're almost into 2013. Plasma has been out long enough and the technology should've been improved.
+1.
post #414 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

I can't say that your post is being fair. Those viewing habits you mentioned ARE normal viewing habits. For the most part, unless you're watching Blu-ray content or movies ordered through Netflix or the like you're going to experience logos that cause IR. Even those Blu-rays and Netflix movies have letterbox and some of the more recent movies such as The Artist which is a silent movie in 4:3. Normal viewing habits are turning the TV on and watching it, period. Hitting the Zoom button to stretch out the screen to avoid the black bars, trying to find channels without station logos, turning down the contrast during the "break-in" period, having to educate your entire family on how to use a Plasma by doing all of the above and knowing they will do just the opposite when your back is turned IS NOT NORMAL.
It IS exactly the manufacturer's fault, why should the customer be blamed? It's not like the TV stations give a damn about your TV getting IR from those ridiculous logos. Plasma technology should be built better to withstand such programming. We're almost into 2013. Plasma has been out long enough and the technology should've been improved.

I never stretch.
I never zoom.
I watch a lot of sports.
I watch letterbox movies when the movie is letterboxed.
I watch a lot of sports.
I watch plenty of stuff with logos, including lots of broadcast TVs.
I never adjust my TV settings except to move from "Bright Room" to "Cinema" when I want a different setting for my own enjoyment.
I am a TVaholic and I do not experience image retention on my plasma.
post #415 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by allWhiteMeat View Post

Green sparkles: old tv had green sparkles in any dark colors past brightness 58. The repairman and repair call center said this is not normal, however, the new tv is doing the exact same thing. My LG 55lm7600 is broken and they will be here monday to look at it. Im going to have this guy look at this issue again. I requested a new repairman as the last guy was more.concerned with watching CNN on election day that looking at my TV. Ill update you, but I assume this is probably a normal (ish) function of the tv. From a great enough distance you dont see it, but the effect is still felt. If my wife can feel it, its happening.

Sparkles are just how Plasmas work. The pixels fire red blue and green individually at different rates/amounts to create colors, and if you are closer than optimal viewing distance, you'll be able to see the dithering/sparkles in the darker colors. It's not visible at normal distance if you get your brightness set correctly, I have to be within 5 feet of my 65 ST30 to see it on mine.

Here's how to set your brightness. Put something that has solid black on the screen, i'd recommend the credits from a movie. You want to turn the brightness up as high as it can go before you see any sparkles of any kind in the solid black area of the screen, and that's where you want to keep it, as that's as high as you can turn the brightness up, while maintaining the lowest black levels that the set can produce, it should also yield ideal results on a brightness test pattern. D-Nice's settings have the brightness at 56, so it makes sense that you can see it once you go above 58.
Edited by ttnuagmada - 11/28/12 at 6:35am
post #416 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Which calibrator recommends a 500 hour break in ? 150 to 200 hours is generally recommended.

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_14.html

go down to initial steps, it's the second bullet.

I'm not saying treat the thing like a bomb that's about to go off for 500 hours then let loose, i'm saying treat it like a sheet of glass for 100-200 hours then gradually let up until 500 hours then "be mindful" after that. quite simple and it worked for me.
post #417 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_14.html
go down to initial steps, it's the second bullet.
I'm not saying treat the thing like a bomb that's about to go off for 500 hours then let loose, i'm saying treat it like a sheet of glass for 100-200 hours then gradually let up until 500 hours then "be mindful" after that. quite simple and it worked for me.

I guess that is one viewpoint but sounds pretty conservative definitely not the generally recognized recommendation. You do not need to wait 500 hours to have you set pro calibrated despite what Tweak TV says.
post #418 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

I can't say that your post is being fair. Those viewing habits you mentioned ARE normal viewing habits. For the most part, unless you're watching Blu-ray content or movies ordered through Netflix or the like you're going to experience logos that cause IR. Even those Blu-rays and Netflix movies have letterbox and some of the more recent movies such as The Artist which is a silent movie in 4:3. Normal viewing habits are turning the TV on and watching it, period. Hitting the Zoom button to stretch out the screen to avoid the black bars, trying to find channels without station logos, turning down the contrast during the "break-in" period, having to educate your entire family on how to use a Plasma by doing all of the above and knowing they will do just the opposite when your back is turned IS NOT NORMAL.
It IS exactly the manufacturer's fault, why should the customer be blamed? It's not like the TV stations give a damn about your TV getting IR from those ridiculous logos. Plasma technology should be built better to withstand such programming. We're almost into 2013. Plasma has been out long enough and the technology should've been improved.

I have noticed almost all TV station logos are transparent to some degree so even though they are there the pixels behind them are changing so that should never be an issue. Now watching sports the logos/score tickers are usually not transparent at all so those can cause image retention if you watch that too much.

I do agree that you should be able to watch the TV however you want without worry about these types of things but, if this is how you are going to choose to watch your TV, you should understand the technology behind what your buying.

Image retention and burn in are limitations of plasma technology and no manufacturer can keep it from happening if a TV is subjected to certain conditions.

CRT suffered from the same issues and it was around for 50+ years.
post #419 of 756
What I do is keep the settings on "standard" mode when watching tv or playing video games where a possiblility of burn in exists, and full brightness thx/cinema or calibrated custom mode when watching my WDTV, blu ray or netflix. I understand that some people have problems regardless of what they do but for the record this worked for me after i had exchanged a set for burn in from NOT following this method. if you keep the tv on standard mode and still get burn in either you are lying to yourself or the tv really is defective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I guess that is one viewpoint but sounds pretty conservative definitely not the generally recognized recommendation. You do not need to wait 500 hours to have you set pro calibrated despite what Tweak TV says.

I get that 500 hours is too "conservative" but do you really want to have to pay to send someone in to calibrate the set twice?
post #420 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

What I do is keep the settings on "standard" mode when watching tv or playing video games where a possiblility of burn in exists, and full brightness thx/cinema or calibrated custom mode when watching my WDTV, blu ray or netflix. I understand that some people have problems regardless of what they do but for the record this worked for me after i had exchanged a set for burn in from NOT following this method. if you keep the tv on standard mode and still get burn in either you are lying to yourself or the tv really is defective.
I get that 500 hours is too "conservative" but do you really want to have to pay to send someone in to calibrate the set twice?

I'll say that in my own personal experience, 3 pro cals of Plasma I have waited the 150 hours and never needed a recalibration after 500 hours, I definitely agree the set changes in those first couple hundred hours but then it stabilizes for a good amount of time. Maybe the phosphers settle more but it has not been something I have noticed with my calibrations.

On the burn-in/IR issue I dont own an ST50 but have never seen IR on my PX80(2008), GT25(2010) or ST30. Never used slides, never restricted content, did use conservative setting for the first 100 hours or so. Maybe the ST50 is a different animal but I doubt it. I know a fellow avs member that has an ST30 with horrible IR so that supports the panel lottery theory I guess.
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