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Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 17

post #481 of 730
1/26/13 at 4:10am
Lots of interesting stories here about image retention, or maybe we should just use the non-euphamistic term to say what it really is "burn-in".

Here is my situation:
- New 55ST50 purchased in May 2012
- No break in period followed but used D-Nice settings for such a condition
- Contrast set to about 75
- Mostly 16:9 viewing but some 4:3
- 1300 hours of run time
- Satellite is Bell TV (Canada)
- Began noticing what I thought was IR in the upper left corner from the Bell TV logo guide screen (which is white but is only on for about 10-30 seconds at a time to select a channel)
- Tried using the built in white wiping slide to reduce, did not reduce
- Started noticing it was there permanently when watching regular TV (anytime the image on the screen had a light solid colour in the upper left corner like sky blue or white)
- Called Panasonic and explained my situation and that IMO this was full on burn-in and not a case of misuse by having the TV contrast too high and watching something for hours on end with a white logo or gaming
- Panasonic front line person didn't want to help and I had to battle just to get him to log the complaint in their system with a reference number so I could call back and keep working on the problem with somone else later
- Next day got a call from someone at Panasonic that they were going to dispatch their local service center to look at the TV (would they even bother calling back if they were just going to deny my claim due to the fine print in the manual about burn-in)
- Service center was given a work order but had to bring the TV to their shop to run slides for 5 days to see if the image would go away (again, would Panasonic do this and inconvenience me by taking away my TV for a week if the image would not go away proving burn-in and then turn around and say "sorry, can't help you" to me)
- Finished playing their game and after 5 days of running slides the burn-in image never even faded, service center sent in their report and pictures and now Pansonic has been 2 days not responding to their follow ups (either the answer is "nothing we can do" or they would have to replace the TV because they won't just replace the panel)
- Going to call Panasonic today myself and continue to profess my displeasure with the orignial defect and the fact that they sent my TV away for 5 days to run slides that I could have done at home and I knew it woudn't remove the problem...but to ensure I could get Panasonic to make the right decision I have followed their rules each step

So...what do you think my chances are of getting Panasonic to come good for a replacement TV (on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being no chance in hell and 10 being absolutely guaranteed) and what could I do/say to Panasonic to improve my oddds???
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post #482 of 730
1/26/13 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fever24 View Post

Lots of interesting stories here about image retention, or maybe we should just use the non-euphamistic term to say what it really is "burn-in".

Here is my situation:
- New 55ST50 purchased in May 2012
- No break in period followed but used D-Nice settings for such a condition
- Contrast set to about 75
- Mostly 16:9 viewing but some 4:3
- 1300 hours of run time
- Satellite is Bell TV (Canada)
- Began noticing what I thought was IR in the upper left corner from the Bell TV logo guide screen (which is white but is only on for about 10-30 seconds at a time to select a channel)
- Tried using the built in white wiping slide to reduce, did not reduce
- Started noticing it was there permanently when watching regular TV (anytime the image on the screen had a light solid colour in the upper left corner like sky blue or white)
- Called Panasonic and explained my situation and that IMO this was full on burn-in and not a case of misuse by having the TV contrast too high and watching something for hours on end with a white logo or gaming
- Panasonic front line person didn't want to help and I had to battle just to get him to log the complaint in their system with a reference number so I could call back and keep working on the problem with somone else later
- Next day got a call from someone at Panasonic that they were going to dispatch their local service center to look at the TV (would they even bother calling back if they were just going to deny my claim due to the fine print in the manual about burn-in)
- Service center was given a work order but had to bring the TV to their shop to run slides for 5 days to see if the image would go away (again, would Panasonic do this and inconvenience me by taking away my TV for a week if the image would not go away proving burn-in and then turn around and say "sorry, can't help you" to me)
- Finished playing their game and after 5 days of running slides the burn-in image never even faded, service center sent in their report and pictures and now Pansonic has been 2 days not responding to their follow ups (either the answer is "nothing we can do" or they would have to replace the TV because they won't just replace the panel)
- Going to call Panasonic today myself and continue to profess my displeasure with the orignial defect and the fact that they sent my TV away for 5 days to run slides that I could have done at home and I knew it woudn't remove the problem...but to ensure I could get Panasonic to make the right decision I have followed their rules each step

So...what do you think my chances are of getting Panasonic to come good for a replacement TV (on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being no chance in hell and 10 being absolutely guaranteed) and what could I do/say to Panasonic to improve my oddds???


what a headache you've been through man, I feel your pain, I would never have bought a plasma if I had known they were still so prone to image retention (my 60ST50 is my first plasma)
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post #483 of 730
1/26/13 at 11:37am
try just running a full screen movie or something for a while. slides don't really work very well i don't know why everyone in this thread does that. give it a serious go before you try to convince a large corporation to help an individual.

you may have a panel that is unexceptably prone to IR but good luck convincing panasonic of that...

my set gets stuck images sometimes but nothing that would prevent me from recommending this set to someone else.
Edited by vilago - 1/26/13 at 11:49am
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post #484 of 730
1/27/13 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

try just running a full screen movie or something for a while. slides don't really work very well i don't know why everyone in this thread does that. give it a serious go before you try to convince a large corporation to help an individual.

you may have a panel that is unexceptably prone to IR but good luck convincing panasonic of that...

my set gets stuck images sometimes but nothing that would prevent me from recommending this set to someone else.




Wouldn't it be cool if someone made a 24 hour long (or longer) scrolling bar video clip which is exactly the same as the Panasonic anti-image retention scrolling bar that could even be put on continuous endless repeat, (rather than the useless TV menu version - automatic 10 minute shutoff)? I bet someone smart on here could make it.
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post #485 of 730
1/27/13 at 5:48pm
55st50 with some IR or possibly burn in. i ran the built-in scrolling swipe feature 5 times, and im now back to the color slides (contrast + brightness maxed). ill run this when im not watching tv for the next week continuously. im 3 day out of my 30 day return policy, but i do have a 5 year geek squad with BB. i have 2 Fox2 channel logos on each lower corner. on a white or light grey back gound i can see it rather well (i have great eyesight). i broke my set in 1st week tv watching, then 5 days continuous of color sides.
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post #486 of 730
1/28/13 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fever24 View Post

Lots of interesting stories here about image retention, or maybe we should just use the non-euphamistic term to say what it really is "burn-in".
So...what do you think my chances are of getting Panasonic to come good for a replacement TV (on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being no chance in hell and 10 being absolutely guaranteed) and what could I do/say to Panasonic to improve my oddds???

-2.

Warranty does not cover burn in and they will find a way to pin the problem on you.
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post #487 of 730
1/28/13 at 12:58pm
update from my above post
(i ended up calling geek squad this morning, they are going to replace the set no questions asked)

thats funny, BB is brining me a brand new 55st50 in 5 days (last one available locally). even states in my geek squad warranty brochure that I/R and B/I IS covered under their plan. i am still under the 30 day return policy (2 days shy of the 30 day period).
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post #488 of 730
1/28/13 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonRR View Post

update from my above post
(i ended up calling geek squad this morning, they are going to replace the set no questions asked)

thats funny, BB is brining me a brand new 55st50 in 5 days (last one available locally). even states in my geek squad warranty brochure that I/R and B/I IS covered under their plan. i am still under the 30 day return policy (2 days shy of the 30 day period).

I'd be really surprised if you had BI. It takes a lot of abuse to get BI. You probably had moderate to severe IR, which will go away with normal TV watching. Now you have a chance on getting a set with something else possibly wrong, i.e. unacceptable buzzing, screen abnormalities...just do a search and you'll see what I mean.

I would have kept it and seen if it went away eventually and if it didn't, then you still could have call Geek Squad to a return/exchange. And by that time, they may have had to upgrade you to a GT or VT because the ST's were all depleted....biggrin.gif
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post #489 of 730
1/29/13 at 6:47am
It doesn't take as much "abuse" as you would think. They say uneven pixel aging is reversible. I beg to differ.

And line bleed is a worse offender than IR/BI. Mostly because there's not much you can do about line bleed apart from minimize it from a good calibration, otherwise it will ALWAYS be there (and it's not hard to see in "normal" viewing either). IR/BI is preventable. Line bleed is not.
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post #490 of 730
1/29/13 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

Wouldn't it be cool if someone made a 24 hour long (or longer) scrolling bar video clip which is exactly the same as the Panasonic anti-image retention scrolling bar that could even be put on continuous endless repeat, (rather than the useless TV menu version - automatic 10 minute shutoff)? I bet someone smart on here could make it.

Not worth it. Slides and the scrolling bar are probably a notch above useless.
A far more effective and less wasteful way to remove IR is just watching full screen content.
EVERY instance of IR I've had is removed far faster and more effectively with normal content that fills the screen with no logos.
Plus you aren't wasting energy or holding up the TV for doing what it is actually designed for...watching TV.
After all, plasmas don't get the energy star for a reason.
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post #491 of 730
1/29/13 at 7:45am
Well, one can still watch normally and run slides or some video loop overnight, while at work etc. to help get rid of the IR faster.

I certainly wouldn't not use it normally while trying to get rid of IR--except of course avoiding whatever the IR was from so you aren't re-enforcing it while trying to get rid of it.
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post #492 of 730
1/29/13 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

I think so too. All this IR and burn-in was problem in the early plasma panels and I never would have expected it to come back after so many years. My previous many years old Panasonic plasma never had any issues like that (which was the reason I purchased another Panasonic) and now my new ST50 has horrible IR and burn-in and it seems to get worse as it age.
Did you get your set back yet? It would be interesting to hear if all IR and burn-in problems are gone now? Also are vertical bands and line bleed any better in the new panel? I'm considering if I should go the same route or is it just a waste of time.

Ran 200 hours brake-in slides with new panel and then calibrated with i1D3.
At last weekend I played BF3 two one hour sessions and didn´t noticed IR, today I watched FOX channel about one hour and channel logo IR took 1-2 hours to wipe with watching some other channel.
So that´s not look so promising rolleyes.gif
If I´ll get another burn-in panel I don´t agree to wait another two months again to get new panel, I want my moneys back.
1500 euros (TX-P55ST50Y) is too much if quality is like that, I can´t use TV for what it´s meant, watching tv frown.gif

Banding is almost same as with last panel and noticed also line bleed.
I had two Panasonic models (PX700 and C10) and no IR problems, there was line bleed but I think that´s somekind of normal feature for all plasma sets.
Picture quality is great with ST50 and banding is not noticable by normal viewing but IR/burn-in is really a big problem.

2009&2010 there was MLL problems, 2011&2012 IR/burn-in problems, I really hope that Panasonic can get rid off this kind of faults at 2013 models if they wanna sell plasma sets also in future.
Edited by Make73 - 1/29/13 at 11:02am
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post #493 of 730
1/29/13 at 11:50am
the fox2 logos didnt go away after 3 days of watching reg tv, bd movies, or running color sliders or the scrolling i/r thing. and i DO have buzzing, but only on white background things (color slides, hockey, winterX games).
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post #494 of 730
1/29/13 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonRR View Post

the fox2 logos didnt go away after 3 days of watching reg tv, bd movies, or running color sliders or the scrolling i/r thing. and i DO have buzzing, but only on white background things (color slides, hockey, winterX games).
On my 50ST50 the early IR from logos and menu bright white text took a month to go away completely.
It appeared to be IR susceptible more during the first 500 hours, but after that I haven't seen any from typical logos, etc.
So it takes quite sometime early on to get rid of stubborn IR, not just a few hours or days. But eventually its not a significant issue anymore at least it seems.
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post #495 of 730
1/29/13 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

Not worth it. Slides and the scrolling bar are probably a notch above useless.
A far more effective and less wasteful way to remove IR is just watching full screen content.
EVERY instance of IR I've had is removed far faster and more effectively with normal content that fills the screen with no logos.
Plus you aren't wasting energy or holding up the TV for doing what it is actually designed for...watching TV.
After all, plasmas don't get the energy star for a reason.

^^^ This is among the best advice you will read in this thread. Go back and read it again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriscoCountyJr View Post

On my 50ST50 the early IR from logos and menu bright white text took a month to go away completely.
It appeared to be IR susceptible more during the first 500 hours, but after that I haven't seen any from typical logos, etc.
So it takes quite sometime early on to get rid of stubborn IR, not just a few hours or days. But eventually its not a significant issue anymore at least it seems.

It's possible that something about "new" increases susceptibility (although not in my experience, but certainly possible). It's also noteworthy you find it less of an issue after time. On my set, I can never detect any (although I have a different model).
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonRR View Post

the fox2 logos didnt go away after 3 days of watching reg tv, bd movies, or running color sliders or the scrolling i/r thing. and i DO have buzzing, but only on white background things (color slides, hockey, winterX games).

The buzzing on white is pretty common. I have that, too, although it's pretty impossible to hear on me unless I have no volume. When all the cells are activated at high power, you'll get more buzzing, which is how you hear it.

As to whether yours is unacceptable, I can't answer that for you obviously.
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post #496 of 730
1/31/13 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Ran 200 hours brake-in slides with new panel and then calibrated with i1D3.
At last weekend I played BF3 two one hour sessions and didn´t noticed IR, today I watched FOX channel about one hour and channel logo IR took 1-2 hours to wipe with watching some other channel.
So that´s not look so promising rolleyes.gif
If I´ll get another burn-in panel I don´t agree to wait another two months again to get new panel, I want my moneys back.
1500 euros (TX-P55ST50Y) is too much if quality is like that, I can´t use TV for what it´s meant, watching tv frown.gif

Banding is almost same as with last panel and noticed also line bleed.
I had two Panasonic models (PX700 and C10) and no IR problems, there was line bleed but I think that´s somekind of normal feature for all plasma sets.
Picture quality is great with ST50 and banding is not noticable by normal viewing but IR/burn-in is really a big problem.

2009&2010 there was MLL problems, 2011&2012 IR/burn-in problems, I really hope that Panasonic can get rid off this kind of faults at 2013 models if they wanna sell plasma sets also in future.

This does not sound good. Seems like sending TV to repair is a waste of time as I already assumed. Please keep up posted about your findings if it gets any better or worse.
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post #497 of 730
1/31/13 at 9:17am
does image retention get less and less as the plasma ages, i played forza horizon for about an hour and a half and i faintly got the time tickers on the top right but went away within 1-2 minutes on fullscreen tv. i guess im being to picky, i should be at 100 hours tomorrow morning and just wanted to know if the panal will be able to deal with IR better as it ages.
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post #498 of 730
1/31/13 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOWM3URBO0BYZ View Post

does image retention get less and less as the plasma ages, i played forza horizon for about an hour and a half and i faintly got the time tickers on the top right but went away within 1-2 minutes on fullscreen tv. i guess im being to picky, i should be at 100 hours tomorrow morning and just wanted to know if the panal will be able to deal with IR better as it ages.

That's how it generally should be but my ST50 started to get serious IR and burn-in AFTER 100 hours and it has not got any better after that (I have around 1500-2000 hours now).
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post #499 of 730
1/31/13 at 11:20am
As bad as IR is on 2012 Pannys - its still a LOT better than Samsung buzz. Its at least manageable, and if it gets to the point where its actually visible on normal content - you can take steps to remove it, sure it can take days and days but you can fix it. Samsung buzz (at least on my E6500) is unavoidable and nothing you can do outside of swapping the panel to hopefully get a quieter one can fix it.

Yup..originally swapped my St50 for a E6500 because of IR, then switched back. The silent operation and easier to obtain IR is something i would gladly take over the buzz.

Make no mistake, the Samsung still had IR issues - i didnt babysit it as much as the ST50 but i did get IR that was kind of stubborn to remove. Damn these networks that have solid white logos
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post #500 of 730
1/31/13 at 12:41pm
I've said this before in this thread but here goes again.
When I had a CFL bulb in a dimmer lamp plugged in across the room in a different socket, it would cause the TV to buzz much more loudly than usual. Only when I put a regular incandescent in there did it drop below audible levels. My point is be sure to eliminate any EMF interference ANYWHERE in the house before you blame the set. If you're at a high altitude, there's probably nothing that can be done
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post #501 of 730
2/2/13 at 6:10am
i was getting the white buzzing even with ALL lights off during the day. no no light interferience on my part.

the buzzing is tollerable, i just turn my a/v receiver up a few more cicks.
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post #502 of 730
2/2/13 at 7:03am
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455597/why-i-bought-a-plasma-with-burn-in-and-how-to-sleep-better-at-night
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post #503 of 730
2/2/13 at 10:32am
So here is an update.
- service center after 3 days concluded the burn-in was not getting any better and wasn't going to so they contacted Panasonic and told them the story then sent in their report
- that was 10 days ago and after several inquiries they did not get any response back from the first person in line so they went to the next level tech support manager
- still no response as of Friday
- tried calling the Panasonic Canada customer support number on Saturday to light a fire under someone's ass but their support department is closed on Saturday's\
- they are probably at home enjoying their TVs getting ready for the superbowl...must be ince

does anyone know of another number or way to get into Panasonic and stir the pot?
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post #504 of 730
2/2/13 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fever24 View Post

So here is an update.
- service center after 3 days concluded the burn-in was not getting any better and wasn't going to so they contacted Panasonic and told them the story then sent in their report
- that was 10 days ago and after several inquiries they did not get any response back from the first person in line so they went to the next level tech support manager
- still no response as of Friday
- tried calling the Panasonic Canada customer support number on Saturday to light a fire under someone's ass but their support department is closed on Saturday's\
- they are probably at home enjoying their TVs getting ready for the superbowl...must be ince

does anyone know of another number or way to get into Panasonic and stir the pot?

Don't know another number to get in touch with Panasonic. But, since Burn-in, IR, etc. is not covered by warranty, I would guess that your chances at getting it replaced are slim to none.

But, good luck and let us know what happened. So far in 6 weeks, my 55ST50 has not had any Burn-in. I had slight IR from watching TV one night for several hours on the same station with stupid logo.. I ran the black/white sweeper for about thirty minutes and then did not watch any more programs with logos the next day. By the next evening, the IR from the logo was gone. Have not had any more since but have watched many shows with the logos. Good luck!!!!
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post #505 of 730
2/2/13 at 11:37am
Thats surprising that you have really really stubborn IR (i dont know if i should call it permanent burn in yet) - other than slides, have you tried something like the WoW pixel flipper. I've also read that one type of burnin (phosphor residue or something) can be fixed by running a pure white slide at full contrast for hours if not days.

Good luck - im on my 2nd ST50 and ill be babysitting it for the first 400hrs, then then run scrolling bars at least 15mins a day, or inbetween commericals and then noise/slides overnight once a week or so
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post #506 of 730
2/3/13 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by indyfred View Post

But, since Burn-in, IR, etc. is not covered by warranty, I would guess that your chances at getting it replaced are slim to none

Says who? Panasonic´s manual?
I got new panel under warranty and next step is get moneys back because problem is still there (already contacted Panasonic and seller).
You can babysitting with your TV if you like, I´ll buy set which I can use normally.
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post #507 of 730
2/3/13 at 3:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Says who? Panasonic´s manual?
I got new panel under warranty and next step is get moneys back because problem is still there (already contacted Panasonic and seller).

I was told by Panasonic that burn in is not covered under warranty. They said in the user manual are instructions how to prevent it from happening.

With my TV it is not possible to freely watch what ever channel I want without getting burn in.
If I knew what I know now, I would have bought my set from the dealer with good return policy and I would have given up and returned it when aging the set did not seem to make it any less prone to IR and burn in.
I had so good experience with my previous Panasonic plasma that I did not even thought there could be problems like this with current TV's.

I'm sorry to hear new panel did not solve the problem. I wonder why they don't simply offer a problem free TV.
Please let us know how your case proceeds so that we know how to deal with them.
Edited by Big Lebowski - 2/3/13 at 3:39am
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post #508 of 730
2/3/13 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Says who? Panasonic´s manual?
I got new panel under warranty and next step is get moneys back because problem is still there (already contacted Panasonic and seller).
You can babysitting with your TV if you like, I´ll buy set which I can use normally.

If you are going to be a smartass, then yes, the manual does say that it does not cover image burn-in, retention....

On page 21 of the manual under the Limited Warranty section, it says exactly and in this font "and DOES NOT COVER ...nor does it cover markings, or retained images on the glass panel resulting from viewing fixed images (including, among other things, non-expanded standard 4:3 pictures on the wide screen TV's, or onscreen data in a stationary or fixed location". So, I am not "making it up". If they replace your panel, then more power to you. But, if they don't then they are so entitled also. I am not saying that you have a right to be upset, just that they say it is not covered.

I have not "babysat" my panel since the first instance. I bought my TV to watch also. And, so far, I have not had anymore since then.
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post #509 of 730
2/3/13 at 5:10am
I realize you guys might be a little disgruntled in this thread and I might expect responses accordingly, but I’m seriously considering pulling the trigger on a ST50. I watch A LOT of the 24 hour news programs that have the banners and logos. I would like the better picture that I keep reading I would get with plasma over an edgelit LED (Samsung 6100/6500).

Is it just a huge mistake to buy plasma for me based on that? I already had the 6100 and took it back. I calibrated it to some settings that I found and it looked pretty amazing; sharpness, color, brightness, etc. I could see that the blacks might leave room for a lot of improvement, but they weren’t so bad I couldn’t live with it. I guess I just don’t know how good a plasma is in that regard and question if it is worth it with all of these posts and threads I’m seeing.

I could probably at least try to not leave it on all night on one of the 24 hour news channels, but still – it dominates my television viewing to a degree that it worries me.
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post #510 of 730
2/3/13 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastfwd View Post

I realize you guys might be a little disgruntled in this thread and I might expect responses accordingly, but I’m seriously considering pulling the trigger on a ST50. I watch A LOT of the 24 hour news programs that have the banners and logos. I would like the better picture that I keep reading I would get with plasma over an edgelit LED (Samsung 6100/6500).

Is it just a huge mistake to buy plasma for me based on that? I already had the 6100 and took it back. I calibrated it to some settings that I found and it looked pretty amazing; sharpness, color, brightness, etc. I could see that the blacks might leave room for a lot of improvement, but they weren’t so bad I couldn’t live with it. I guess I just don’t know how good a plasma is in that regard and question if it is worth it with all of these posts and threads I’m seeing.

I could probably at least try to not leave it on all night on one of the 24 hour news channels, but still – it dominates my television viewing to a degree that it worries me.

How long exactly are we talking here? Those banners are probably as bad as it gets when it comes to harmful static images, short of leaving a paused image on screen. People mostly refer to ESPN when talking banners, but you generally wouldn't want to watch that for more than a couple hours, a few at most. I don't suppose you could switch between stations either if the banners were in a similar location. I'm pretty sure you would have problems with image retention given your desired usage. Feel free to get a second opinion though.
Edited by JSpectre88 - 2/3/13 at 5:27am
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