Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 18

If I were being honest; I currently routinely leave the tv on all night long on one of the 24 hour news channels. I need to stop though. I would still be watching probably at least a few hours in the evenings and mornings; Erin Burnett Outfront (one current favorite), some Anderson Cooper possibly (if they aren’t harping on gun control too much), Fox and Friends First (if I’m awake – love me some Ainsley Earhardt when I get up early enough), depending on the current issues I might be tuned into Fox and Friends or Moring Joe in the mornings.

I do enjoy movies though (probably an understatement). I’ve only got like less than a half dozen Blu-ray discs currently, but I subscribe to Netflix and have been watching a little Vudu lately too. I might buy more discs if I had a set that showed off what Blu-ray could do more. My last set was a 40” and it felt like the higher quality of Blu-ray was probably not fully appreciated on it anyway.

I also am somewhat of a hobbyist videographer/photographer (we’re talking really amateur home movie stuff). I might really like to see my GoPro/AVCHD 1080p video on a set that shows off what it might be capable of (and possibly color graded in post accordingly).

The Samsung 6500 that I alternatively had my eye on actually dropped in price after the ‘Super Bowl Sale Week’ LOL. So, it makes me sway back toward edgelit led lcd and the presumed more tolerant screen to my viewing habits. I might hate missing out on what plasma has to offer though. I’m pretty torn about it.

Go LED. There's no sense in changing your viewing habits due to drawbacks of one type of display.

I love the picture on plasmas, but I've tried them twice and gotten IR issues both times as I tend to have the TV on ESPN for hours on end most days (especially weekends) and play a lot of video games. I've also had issues with buzzing on bright scenes both times--but that seems to vary by set (maybe I've just had bad luck) and how sensitive one is to hearing it and/or being annoyed buy it (I"m pretty sensitive to hearing electronic buzzing).

In any case, a TV is something you should enjoy and not have to worry about or change your usage habits. If you don't naturally mix content and like leaving the TV on channels with logos for hours on end, buy a TV that you can use the way you like.

Again, I like the plasma picture better, but I'm much happier with LED/LCD as I can just use them and not have any worries about IR, buzzing etc. so I'll happily give up the PQ. I'm also not a videophile, but also sounds like you aren't either sense you don't own many Blurays. So get something you can use the way you want with peace of mind.

MSNBC is the worst, it has a pure white bar at the top which really leaves bad image retention on my 60st50, i have to zoom every time to watch it, annoying.
Edited by mikediamond - 2/3/13 at 10:03am

Isn't there something to be done to stop the channel branding on the screen? They never did this a few years ago. It seems that if the problem is big enough somebody with some clot could make them stop. Somebody please give Obama a IR prone plasma.

I think it's just with the proliferation of video sharing online etc. that channels have moved to having permanent logos so they're material is always clearly marked making copyright claims, cease and desist orders etc. cut and dry.

And tickers in general are a great thing as it's nice to have news, scores etc. going by. Plasmas just aren't great for those channels unfortunately.

Hopefully OLED or something else comes along that matches or exceeds plasma PQ without the IR worries.

Just came back from Best Buy and the Sony Rep put on a demo of the shortcomings of the GT vs. whatever Sony LED was on display (more expensive granted). The 50” GT they had in their Magnolia Center had a pretty pronounced green hue issue that I’ve seen mentioned that isn’t able to be completely dialed out by the user controls. He also showed off some pretty bad issues with what he called ‘bleed’ of some kind in the highlights. The scenes he showed were completely washed out/blown.

IDK. The Samsung 6500 is $100 less this week than last week. I might be better off with LED until I have a setup more dedicated to viewing movies than general television viewing. The plasmas do have a nicer saturation of color, but that green hue puts me off in addition to the other issues. I would hate to be stuck with that green tint to everything without having to drop a couple more hundred bucks to have it professionally tuned out. It negates the ‘superior IQ’ for me at this point I think.

Watch the sony just a few degrees off center and let us know your thoughts...

I own an xbr929 and hx850 and a gt50...the gt50 is the finest set i own and on par with my pioneer pdp5020

Me too (!). Damn if i didnt have msnbc on the other day for 2-3 hours. Now I have ir where the white title bar was. Its' subtle, and mostly noticable when theres a solid color. Thing is I have 2 days before I can still return the tv. Should I? I feel like it may go away, but not sure.

FWIW, our 60ST50 was prone to Quick Onset, Medium- to Long-Duration IR until some point Past the 400+ Hour Mark.

At some point between About 425 - 450 hours, IR Onset time began to lengthen, and Duration time shorten.

Am certain we could still "Demonstrate" IR on the panel, but it no longer appears to be problem with normal usage.

Note that we do NOT Game on the panel, nor use it as a Super Large Computer Monitor.....

Well, thanks for the hopefull outlook. Are these numbers your experience, or an aggregate of what people are seeing out there?

Just sucks that an otherwise exceptional tv has such a trade off. For the first 25 days I never saw this, then it happened....5 days before my return window ends.

However, the ir is barely noticable on most video, and only if I look for it. But jumps out on content that has solid colors in the ir area (top part of screen).

I've never kept a product with a "feature" like this, but then again I don't know what the alternative is.

I think you should consider can you live with the feature because once you are out of your return window, you are on your own (it may be difficult or impossible to get it fixed under warranty since burn in is not covered under warranty). Take a look at previous page of this thread. It may or may not get better, mine has gotten worse after initial 100 hours.

Yep. Just think long and hard about whether it's something you can live with long-term in case it doesn't get more IR resistant.

I couldn't as I was noticing IR on my UT50 when watching basketball and hockey. Bothered me a lot (though buzzing was the main reason I ditched it) as I watch a ton of ESPN, play games for hours fairly regularly, so I figured it was something I'd notice, and be annoyed by, often given my uses. I care more about peace of mind and being able to use a TV however I want more than having the best PQ so I decided that LCD/LED was more to my needs.

But everyone has different preferences and pet peeves, so all you can do is think about what you care about, what your uses are, what you can live with etc.

And now that I think of it, I'll watch the same channel in the morning and evening (msnbc).

Does the ir retention problem only happen per viewing session or is it cumulative throughout any given day?

Maybe the ir I'm seeing wasn't just from one 3-hour session but instead from the cumulative hours watching msnbc. ?

Lastly, if I choose to return it to Best Buy, should I tell them? Can they refuse it (within the 30 day return window)?



Thanks

Are you getting IR because you watch the same channel with a logo or header, throughout the day? Or varying IR and content?

Just curious.

want to know what I would do?
get a cheap $200 LCD for watching your news stuff, since you probably don't care that much about PQ for news programs, then get the ST/GT/VT whatever for watching netflix. honestly might be cheaper in the long run and give you better peace of mind than trying to worry about IR.

Also, I don't notice any green tint to my set, however the line bleed you referred to can get a little bothersome occasionally. a well calibrated set will minimize/eliminate the green tint thing as well as the line bleed so it sounds to me like the plasma he was showing you was not calibrated properly.

both.
IMO burn in is essentially a grouping of unevenly aged pixels (and can be very nearly impossible to even out after it happens). this can happen from a certain amount of viewing time with the offending image without enough of other viewing in between. so 30 minutes of the image followed by 5 minutes of break then another 30 minutes and so on will cause burn in. i would say try to keep the viewing as close to 1:1 as you can.
Edited by vilago - 2/4/13 at 2:10pm

That is an option I suppose. But if he/she isn't a huge videophile I'd just say get a decent LED/LCD and be done with it. For people that watch a lot of things with static images, it's better to just avoid plasma IMO. Unless you're a serious videophile and must have the black levels, better motion etc. of course. I think many assume everyone that asks questions about displays on this site falls in that basket, when it's clear that many don't and I think many of them get steered toward plasmas that just aren't ideal for their viewing habits.

Plasmas offer a fantastic picture for a great price, but they still aren't the way to go if you're going to have a lot of viewing with static images. If you have the room and money for two TVs then that is a way to go for sure. But I think it makes sense to buy something for your main TV that fits your viewing habits. If it's mostly movies with just some static image stuff (news, ESPN, games etc.) then plasma is probably fine--or maybe get a cheap LCD for the static image stuff as recommended. If you're like me and it's just a couple movies a week, and the rest is long hours of ESPN and gaming then plasmas just don't fit your viewing needs.

Same here, my GT50 doesn't exude any green tint issues. I've actually never heard anyone here mention it.

MSNBC top bar gave me pretty bad image retention that took weeks to go away, just watch other channels, it will go away eventually imo. my solution was to use zoom whenever i watch MSNBC.

Thank you, this makes sense to me. Actually its in line with what a sales rep just told me at a higher end home theater store too (that a plasma may not be a good fit for someone who watches a lot of news and not so much a movie buff).

I get the feeling a lot of people on this forum are movie buffs, so thats what drives them. Personally, 90% of my viewing is either news or HD shows. With the other 10% being movies.

I had the same problem... I tried several things but finally hit on one that worked!

The techs at Panasonic told me to plug in a computer with totally black screen for 3 hours... That didn't work. I tried the break-in slides for 2 days... It helped..some.

Then I deleted all the break-in slides except the one black one. And just left it on... 12 hours later the image is almost gone.

In that case definitely go LED/LCD.

Plasma PQ can't be beat for the black levels that really shine in dark scenes in movies. But if you aren't watching movies that much, that's not worth the trade off of worrying about IR with your news viewing etc. And honestly I personally think a lot of that stuff (news, sports, games) etc,. look better on LED as the brighter screen makes bright scenes really pop (with again the trade off of not handling dark scenes as well).

And yes, a lot of people on this site (and especially this plasma sub forum) are videophile types who buy and tweak their displays primarily for watching movies on Bluray. So a lot of their advice isn't applicable to someone who's primarily watching news channels or ESPN, or primarily gaming etc.

It doesn't really matter how many hours you watch ESPN since commercials interrupt the broadcast every 10 minutes or so, so the same banners don't remain on the screen constantly. It's really about how high of contrast you have the TV set to that can cause IR.

The ESPN ticker doesn't go away during commercials (other than during some live sporting events). So that white ESPN logo on the right of the ticker is there pretty much all the time.

I had my UT50 with contrast at 78, brightness at 57, and IR from ESPN was noticeable anytime I watched for more than a few minutes, and was pretty stubborn to get rid of if I watched for several hours (I often leave ESPN on in the background when working at home, may watch a few college games in a row on weekends etc.).

Yep, you're right. I thought about those stupid tickers before I posted. That's exactly why ESPN gets such a bad rap in the Plasma forum. I know IR is annoying but it's so subtle and and truly temporary as I have never heard of anyone reporting of permanent burn-in on the more recent models and it's really the only outstanding issue that people have to deal with when it comes to Plasma. The LCD forum may not have to deal with IR but they have so many other PQ issues, let alone having to sit directly in front of the screen to achieve the best picture. At least with a Plasma you can have a room full of people watching it (like the Superbowl, ) and everybody will get the same great quality of picture no matter what angle of the room they are sitting.

Just different strokes for different folks. I'm not a videophile at all so I don't give a crap about most of the PQ issues people drone on about on here about plasmas or LED/LCD.

I can admit that overall I liked the PQ on the UT50 better than the Panny ET5 LED I exchanged it for--at least for movies. For things with bright scenes (sports, some games etc.) I prefer the LED. But I couldn't live with the IR and the buzzing on bright scenes. So I'm much happier overall with the LED. Viewing angles I couldn't care less about as I'm in a condo and the couch in front of the TV is the only valid place to watch TV anyway--and we seldom have people over anyway.

Plasma just doesn't work for me as I seem to be very sensitive to hearing buzzing and my viewing habits involve lots of static images from tickers and marathon video gaming sessions. Great picture, but I can't overcome those.

Hopefully someday we'll get some tech that provides the best of both worlds--black levels, motion handling and viewing angles of plasma, with no risk of IR or buzzing on bright scenes.

In the meantime, I don't mean to be beating up plasmas. I just never would have bought one after a bad experience with one 5-6 years back (also buzzing and IR) if not for so many posts saying these things weren't really an issue--particularly the IR. People need to know that IR is still an issue (though it is temporary rather than burn in mostly these days) if you do a lot of static image viewing. As good as plasma PQ is, they're not for everyone. Some people are too defensive of plasmas--and I guess that's understandable with the technology seeming to be on the downside of it's popularity with Pioneer leaving the game a few years back, Panny starting with LED sets and closing one of their plasma plants etc. So again, hopefully OLED or some other tech gives us the best of both worlds by the time Panny and Samsung get out of the plasma business.
Edited by dmaul1114 - 2/4/13 at 3:52pm

It is worse than you think. Have you ever seen a children's show with the "E/I" logo (in one or another shape) on the screen? They are REQUIRED to have that logo on those shows full-time.

LOL, Best Buy sold out of ST50’s and it prompted me to buy one from Sears – NO GREEN HUE and with some calibration settings I found online; it looks gorgeous! My first ever plasma. It’s beautiful! LOL

See how long before the scum come back and steal this one now I guess – they’ll have a job to steal it and it be worth anything. It’s a chunk!

I keep changing channels every hour or two to avoid getting burn in. Also when I'm not actually viewing it I often zoom picture to get rid of station logos. Still there are parts of the screen with signs of burn in. My previous Panasonic plasma did not suffer any of this.

Well this is new....it's always been "White" to run for hours. Anyone else do the Black instead of White slide and see results?


By the way i found this and wanted to see what others thought or if it had been tried...

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/
Edited by DR.DTS - 2/5/13 at 10:46am