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Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 3

post #61 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Well, if you see IR on your screen then that's a fact not an opinion. When somebody sees the IR after several weeks of doing every recommended fix and it's still there that's a fact. It may be only his fact but a fact non the less. That's why people come here. To find out if a specific TV has problems. The obvious question from the threads concerning the 2012 Panasonic Plasmas is, is this IR concern a by-product of the new for 2012 panel? Question number 2 is why do some have the problem and some don't? Quality control or just a few poor panels? The die hard Panny folks cam poo poo the IR concern but those of us in the market really do care about this. I've never seen IR mentioned in a professional review so that too adds to the confusion. Did they just not have the TV long enough or is the problem really very very random?


I've had my Samsung 43" PN43E450 for 20 days now and
Encore HD has been back on my Dish for over a week
with tons of James Bond and I've been watching it a LOT.
No IR from the all white Encore HD logo and they don't keep it on screen
all the time so if people are getting IR from it that's a BIG problem.

We all want Kuro blacks and the Panasonic's are close with Samsung next in line
but I'd take worry free IR any day over slightly better backs.
post #62 of 756
I just wanted to chime in as IR is starting to irritate me on my 60st50. I watched wimbledon on sunday and can still see the score board two days later. Even more worrisome, when investigating after the scoreboard caught my eye, i noticed the Directv logo in the top right corner, where it resides in all directv menus and guide. The odd thing about that one is that it's never up continuously for very long.

I'm going to try watching regular material a few more days, then might start looking into other options.
post #63 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

No such thing as burn in imo. Only really persistent IR in my opinion, & then only if you have abused your set imo (videogames, web browsing, sports, news, television stations with logos, entering the menu etc.), in my opinion only.

So in your opinion television abuse occurs when anyone uses their TV for all the reasons it was created?
post #64 of 756
I hate to hear that so many folks here have had the IR/burn in issues, I had a 55ST50 for 3 weeks without any issues and now have the 65ST50 that is 2 days old. I am still doing the slides and watching TV in between and no problems. I guess I am a channel changer so maybe that keeps it from any images being on too long. I really like this TV and hope it lives a long healthy life without burn in....

Good luck with your new TV
Jim
post #65 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1022 View Post

So in your opinion television abuse occurs when anyone uses their TV for all the reasons it was created?

So if you take the #1 mfg in terms of defects and are faced with a situation where 95% of people say everything is fine and 5% have this horrid problem what would you expect as most likely?

1) Huge amount of defectives.
2) People burning their screens using torch mode for that "lcd look"
3) People looking at screens with no signal and screaming "burn in"!

If it isn't visible with normal programming, it's not an issue. And the most likely answer is not in the equipment.
post #66 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

No such thing as burn in imo. Only really persistent IR in my opinion, & then only if you have abused your set imo (videogames, web browsing, sports, news, television stations with logos, entering the menu etc.), in my opinion only.

Presumably 4:3 video content would be abuse as well, along with 2.35:1 Blu Ray discs. So the only non-abuse would be watching 16:9 video content without logos? Seems like pretty limited use for TVs advertised with web browsers, Game Modes, "Cinema" like display quality, and extremely fast pixel response to make watching sports better. Also a lot of people consider it ridiculous that Panasonic has a brilliant white MENU text that comes up and seems to easily cause IR. People using the menu a lot should not be considered abusers because Panasonic can't even make a menu that avoids IR.

While it may not happen to everyone, IR is a legitimate concern. There are plenty of people on this forum and others that baby their TVs and still have IR problems. Heck even some older Panasonic modes that never had IR for hundreds of hours can start to get IR later in life as the display makes voltage/power adjustments to attempt maintaining consistent brightness on an aged panel (see the rising black level problem).
post #67 of 756
Let me throw in my question here since I have been wrestling with the question of putting a plasma in my study/den. In the last few years I have not been involved in home theater as such compared to say 10-12 years ago. I currently have a Sony LCD CCFL backlit 40" from about 4 years ago there and my girlfriend has her own Samsung LCD in her personal study/den in our apartment. In our living room we chose not to have a TV.

I was thinking of replacing my Sony with either a ST50 or a Samsung E6500. I have read copious threads both here and in other forums like avforums regarding the issue of IR. Normally I would not be *overly* concerned but, due to the nature of my work and my interests, I do watch CNBC 4-5 hours a day Monday to Friday. In the evenings, I would watch a mix of material, some with station "bugs" and others where scrolling banners etc would be found. Other viewing in the evening would have neither. On the weekends I do watch a fair bit of golf and Auto racing which is replete with logos, banners etc.

Now I would assume that in all probability I will have a large amount of IR with the heavy CNBC use which I guess some would call abuse of my TV. I suppose that this may well lead from mid to long-term IR to worse (I am nervous of using other words here).
It would appear that the ST50 will probably not be a good choice at all. I was thinking of the E6500 which seems from several accounts (including of course that CNET report) to be less prone. However, less prone does not mean I will not get mid-term IR (or worse).

Should I even not contemplate the E6500 and simply look at a Sony HX850 or an HX929 where I will be faced with the usual issues of flashlighting/clouding (diminished somewhat)/reduced viewing angles etc? I have done a lot of searches here re CNBC specifically as that has a plethora of banners all over the place and I know that this is going to be an issue (or could be).
post #68 of 756
Quote:
was thinking of replacing my Sony with either a ST50 or a Samsung E6500. I have read copious threads both here and in other forums like avforums regarding the issue of IR.

Absolutely "love" our ST50 (60").
We have 3 Pan plasmas in the house, and am thoroughly convinced that their overall PQ beats any LCD model that was available at the time each was purchased (with the possible exception of the Sharp Elite....).

But from your description of anticipated usage, I would be sorely tempted to opt for a LCD - probably a back-lit CCFL model, as would expect those to offer better uniformity and a fairly modest price.
post #69 of 756
No IR issues with mine had it for 7 days. No burn or IR or any issues. ST50=excellent TV
post #70 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

No IR issues with mine had it for 7 days. No burn or IR or any issues. ST50=excellent TV
Maybe, that's because you're not leaving anything on the screen for too long or you do what most of do & not leave anything up there for too long that would cause IR. But, on the other hand try bringing up some obnoxious screen logo & and let it sit their for a few hours straight. I'm pretty confident you'll see some IR.
post #71 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

Maybe, that's because you're not leaving anything on the screen for too long or you do what most of do & not leave anything up there for too long that would cause IR. But, on the other hand try bringing up some obnoxious screen logo & and let it sit their for a few hours straight. I'm pretty confident you'll see some IR.

oh yea...watch 2001: A Space Odyssey for 2.5 hours with that damn solid white Encore HD logo!
No IR on my screen but it's a Sammy.
post #72 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

No IR issues with mine had it for 7 days. No burn or IR or any issues. ST50=excellent TV

For whatever reason - and I do not pretend to have an explanation - our 60" ST50 went through a period from about 250 hours to around 400 hours where it seemed Particularly Prone to IR.

Now, I was certainly More Careful with the panel during the first couple hundred hours of usage, but, even so, there were many times during that early period where some MENU or GUIDE or Station Logo appeared on screen for multiple-minutes, and/or repeatedly within a fairly short time frame, and yet did not show a persistent after-image, as happened Very Quickly, with the same "stimulus" after (about...) the 250 hour mark.

The panel seems to have settled into a Less IR-Prone stage, and hopefully will remain there (or even further improve!) as it continues to age. But am a bit gun-shy, & thus am still taking more precautions than we do with our two older (Panasonic) Plasmas.

Beyond the IR Glitch, find the PQ to be Wonderful - and it has seemingly grown better as the hours have advanced.

As always, YMMV....
post #73 of 756
Yeah I have reached day 4 of the slides at 24hrs a day, checked the hours last night and had reached 72 hrs. Left my screen on the XMB (cross media bar) on the PS3 for about 60 seconds only to have the icons show severe IR during slides, also checked while playing Deadspace 2 could still see even with all the shadows and black corners of the game. Ran the scrolling bar and it took from 9pm until 5am for the image to finally fade. It is now from what I can tell gone, but turned on system long enough to start a "zoomed" showing of Tron and the IR was back. I am really bummed by this.
post #74 of 756
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

Yeah I have reached day 4 of the slides at 24hrs a day, checked the hours last night and had reached 72 hrs. Left my screen on the XMB (cross media bar) on the PS3 for about 60 seconds only to have the icons show severe IR during slides, also checked while playing Deadspace 2 could still see even with all the shadows and black corners of the game. Ran the scrolling bar and it took from 9pm until 5am for the image to finally fade. It is now from what I can tell gone, but turned on system long enough to start a "zoomed" showing of Tron and the IR was back. I am really bummed by this.
This is the problem. You only have to leave something on the screen for a few minutes to get persistent IR. It's pretty much impossible not to do that -- either you are going to use a media center, or a tv guide, or watch sports, or any number of other things.

FWIW, I have the Samsung E6500 now and I love it. The PQ is indistinguishable from the ST50 but it shows zero IR. Actually, to be more specific, it did show mild IR in the first ~50 hours of use, but it always vanished very quickly. Now, up around 100 hours, I do not see any IR from anything, even on a grey slide.
post #75 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanillacoffee View Post

This is the problem. You only have to leave something on the screen for a few minutes to get persistent IR. It's pretty much impossible not to do that -- either you are going to use a media center, or a tv guide, or watch sports, or any number of other things.
FWIW, I have the Samsung E6500 now and I love it. The PQ is indistinguishable from the ST50 but it shows zero IR. Actually, to be more specific, it did show mild IR in the first ~50 hours of use, but it always vanished very quickly. Now, up around 100 hours, I do not see any IR from anything, even on a grey slide.

This should put a smile on your face.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance
post #76 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

I do watch CNBC 4-5 hours a day Monday to Friday. In the evenings, I would watch a mix of material, some with station "bugs" and others where scrolling banners etc would be found. Other viewing in the evening would have neither. On the weekends I do watch a fair bit of golf and Auto racing which is replete with logos, banners etc.
Now I would assume that in all probability I will have a large amount of IR with the heavy CNBC use which I guess some would call abuse of my TV. I suppose that this may well lead from mid to long-term IR to worse (I am nervous of using other words here).

My Dad use to watch CNBC 8 hours a day, every weekday on his older Panny plasma, and I could never find a trace of IR or burn-in, even when scanning the screen with a solid color image from a PC. He also ran 4:3 unstretched. Sports scoreboards and channel bugs were never a problem. Break-in? Fugetaboutit! He plugged it in and used it, in Torch mode (until I adjusted it for him years later).

What's going on with these newer Panny's?

Michael
post #77 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanillacoffee View Post

This is the problem. You only have to leave something on the screen for a few minutes to get persistent IR. It's pretty much impossible not to do that -- either you are going to use a media center, or a tv guide, or watch sports, or any number of other things.
FWIW, I have the Samsung E6500 now and I love it. The PQ is indistinguishable from the ST50 but it shows zero IR. Actually, to be more specific, it did show mild IR in the first ~50 hours of use, but it always vanished very quickly. Now, up around 100 hours, I do not see any IR from anything, even on a grey slide.

Just curious if you do any gaming on the 6500 and if so how does it do? I am debating what tv to get and I have been leaning towards the panasonic gt50 because of the THX bright mode as I will have a a window causing some reflections during the day but I am also considering the E6500/E7000 as well.
post #78 of 756
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1022 View Post

Just curious if you do any gaming on the 6500 and if so how does it do? I am debating what tv to get and I have been leaning towards the panasonic gt50 because of the THX bright mode as I will have a a window causing some reflections during the day but I am also considering the E6500/E7000 as well.
I have not tried gaming, but I think it would be fine. There is some input lag in movie mode (I have to delay the audio by about 10 ms). There is a game mode which is supposed to decrease lag, but I have not tried it. However I observed the same input lag on the Panny so don't choose because of that.

As for the bright room performance, yeah the 6500 is great. It's just as good as any LCD. CNET says it's better than the ST50...I don't know about that, but either way they are both excellent.

I think the Sammy would be better just because of the IR. On the Panny, I can pretty much guarantee that you are going to see afterimages of whatever HUDs your games have.
post #79 of 756
Thank you, I appreciate all the info which is going to be really helpful in my decision.
post #80 of 756
The screen filter on the E6500 seems to be good, but if you plan on using Movie mode in the day time, it maxes out at just over 30fL which might be too dim. I prefer 35fL in a dark room let alone a bright room. For comparison, the 2012 Pannys can get to over 40-50 without much trouble (depending on size).
Edited by rahzel - 7/29/12 at 4:23pm
post #81 of 756
I will run the slides for another week if in that time I am still getting IR I am considering taking it back exchanging it for a different ST50, maybe it was a fluke. I may in fact exchange it for a E7000 instead.
post #82 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

This should put a smile on your face.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance
Thank you . I did have to smile when I read this line:
Quote:
Even after hours of displaying the BBC News channel – which features a permanent logo featuring a frankly irresponsible mix of white on solid red –
I thought it funny that the reviewer would call the BBC 'irresponsible' for not catering to Plasma owners...Makes me wonder what the BeeB does to piss off LCD owners...
post #83 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanillacoffee View Post

I have not tried gaming, but I think it would be fine. There is some input lag in movie mode (I have to delay the audio by about 10 ms). There is a game mode which is supposed to decrease lag, but I have not tried it. However I observed the same input lag on the Panny so don't choose because of that.
As for the bright room performance, yeah the 6500 is great. It's just as good as any LCD. CNET says it's better than the ST50...I don't know about that, but either way they are both excellent.
I think the Sammy would be better just because of the IR. On the Panny, I can pretty much guarantee that you are going to see afterimages of whatever HUDs your games have.

review of the UK set"
Although the PS60E6500 has a dedicated “Game Mode” buried in the menu, ignore it. When a 60hz signal is input, there’s a semi-hidden “PC” mode which has even lower input lag, owed to the fact that it takes RGB video from the video game console, and sends it straight to the panel for display. Accordingly, nearly all of the video processing features are disabled. Because this mode works with RGB, [Colour] is locked out (because there’s no use for this control in RGB mode), as is [Colour Space]. You can still use 2-point Greyscale correction, though.

It’s accessed by pressing the SOURCE button, highlighting the HDMI input that your games console is connected to, pressing TOOLS, and changing the label to “PC”. In this setup, input lag was only 16ms compared to a CRT display, making the Samsung PS60E6500 one of the fastest TVs for gaming we’ve tested. Couple this with an uncanny ability to avoid image retention, coupled with the usual picture quality and motion clarity inherent to Plasma technology, and we’re left with a video gamer’s dream."
post #84 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Thank you . I did have to smile when I read this line:
Quote:
Even after hours of displaying the BBC News channel – which features a permanent logo featuring a frankly irresponsible mix of white on solid red –

I thought it funny that the reviewer would call the BBC 'irresponsible' for not catering to Plasma owners...Makes me wonder what the BeeB does to piss off LCD owners..


A frankly irresponsible mix of moving objects & the color cyan?
post #85 of 756
WOW .... Was gonna pull the trigger on the GT50 ... then I read a recent review at Amazon that lead me to research this issue further .... This has be me Mega Worried!!!

I do nothing but watch sports and my TV is viewing ESPN for hours upon hours a day and the ticker and ESPN bright white logo if all these things are true will brun into my screen in No Time!

Heck ESPN even when it goes to commercials "Still" runs the ticker with the logo shining away, so that gives no time for that part of the screen to settle.

I also watch a lot of standard programs with many logos in the corners and movies as well with logos.

But I will watch sports non stop with scoreboards in one spot for the entire game ... This would be have been bad ... and I'm sure it would start to come up after my 30 day return passed and from what I read Panasonic does Not cover this issue in the warranty.

Seems like the guys who say this doesn't exist don't watch sports and programs with extended periods with logos.

I think its time to start my thoughts back in the LED realm .... I have had nothing but LED TV's and I think the quality and picture is great (this would be better but I don't know the difference now so why bother).

Damn why can't I just have tons of money any just buy the 70" Elite and be done with all this mess. tongue.gif

SO .... after Days and days and finally deciding this is the tv for me .... where do I go now???

I think with viewing programs Plasma and IR / burn-in is just way to risky on somethings thats a couple thousand dollars.
post #86 of 756
Go for the Samsung D series or the current E series. They are much less prone to IR or burn in. I have a 1yr old D7000 and have been watching the Olympics for 6 straight hours today and no IR. I never took any pro-active measures on this set concerning IR. Just watched a variety of programing.
Samsung beats the Panny hands down in this department.

CD
post #87 of 756
Saw some bad pics of a GT with major IR .... then he showed regular tv and you could still see it ... Seems like the entire line of Panasonics are are horrible for Burn-in / Image retention.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403635/official-panasonic-gt50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3120

I wanted to get this set so bad ... but after reading a review, coming here, then searching the net there are WAY to many people that have this problem with this TV.

Wonder what the issue is with these?

Starting looking at the new 2012 Samsung but those are starting to get some tough reviews as well ... the old 2011 models seem to be pretty good .... maybe some of the issues are due to this stupid "super slim" crap they did to new line-up ... I wish they would STOP with this thin crap and Ruining the damn picture.
post #88 of 756
^^^^Hard to dispute the science in this post.
post #89 of 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Saw some bad pics of a GT with major IR .... then he showed regular tv and you could still see it ... Seems like the entire line of Panasonics are are horrible for Burn-in / Image retention.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403635/official-panasonic-gt50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3120
I wanted to get this set so bad ... but after reading a review, coming here, then searching the net there are WAY to many people that have this problem with this TV.
Wonder what the issue is with these?
Starting looking at the new 2012 Samsung but those are starting to get some tough reviews as well ... the old 2011 models seem to be pretty good .... maybe some of the issues are due to this stupid "super slim" crap they did to new line-up ... I wish they would STOP with this thin crap and Ruining the damn picture.

You really don't know what you're talking about. "All these people" in a forum post of "Hey I have ir" is meaningless. Forums are hilarious, and if you expect to gather some kind of statistical info, you can't. Search on "Samsung IR" or practically anything and you won't buy anything. I love it when somebody posts, "All these people", so I'll buy the LG (or whatever) instead, and then proceed to name a mfg that has triple Panasonic's defect rate and is notorious for whatever problem they are trying to avoid.

In researching tvs, I checked testing sites, CR, and owner ratings. Let's see, Panasonic rated about the best of ALL tvs, Panasonic lowest repair rate of ALL tvs, Panasonic widely available and hence heavily discounted. It didn't take an large amount of calculations.
post #90 of 756
Panasonic's are definitely the best plasma's available today at least in my opinion. Samsung is lagging behind and unfortunately Pioneer dropped out awhile ago. I do agree that if you go looking for problems you can find it with anything. I would definitely take IR over flashlighting, clouding, and viewing angles of LCD's though smile.gif.

Hopefully Panasonic will continue to improve IR wise as each model comes out. I thought Panasonic bought some of Pioneer's tech but maybe I am wrong. Whatever IR prevention the Kuro uses needs to be in the Panasonics.
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