Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 21

Originally Posted by Argster 

What TV picture settings did you use on this slide show, the default Custom ones, being Contrast 100 and Brightness 50 I think, or did you use Vivid default? Thanks.

Originally Posted by kevreh 

Well my experience with the GT50 contradicts that. To say "if you have problems then you are watching for more than a couple hours" thats the issue. What's the threshold? 2.5 hours....3.5 hours? Answer: no one exactly knows. With so many channels having a logo or banner you can't just say its news or sports either. So, good for you, you don't have problems. Your kind of kicking sand in the eyes of people who do.

The GT50 did have better PQ overall (vs. the LG 7600 LED), but it wasn't a significant difference IMHO.

Originally Posted by vilago 

I personally notice a huge difference in several areas, not including accuracy, black level etc which these sets excel at.
As I said, if you don't notice any difference, get the LED.

neither 2.5 nor 3.5 hours of that sort of content will cause any permanent damage after the proper "break in" procedures (approx 200-500 hours) unless... you have a defective set.
if anyone is scared to buy a plasma because of the comments on this thread, don't be. feel free to send me a PM and I will gladly take some time to explain why you shouldn't worry about it.

Originally Posted by lyrrad721 

I had two ST50s with pretty bad IR problems (ended up returning them). Two days ago I was tempted to buy the VT50 now that it is $1499.99 with a coupon at Pauls TV but had flashbacks from the IR on the St50 and that made me reconsider if I should try for a third time a panny. I mostly watch blu-rays, play sport games and watch sports (ESPN), so IR is going to be a problem.

Now I'm seriously considering the 60" Samsung e7000 plasma ($1597 + a free Samsung Galaxy tablet) since they seem to be a lot more resistant to image retention and their picture quality is very close to the ST50 and apparently has a sharper picture.

Has anyone here had any experience with the e7000 sammy? Do you think it might be better to wait for the ST60 reviews or should I just pull the trigger? Something tells me that the ST60s will still suffer from IR...

Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by JSpectre88 

Personally I think the Vivid/Torchmode thing is a bit of a misnomer. It doesn't matter what setting your on, just so long as the contrast is high enough to produce bright whites and outlines. Any of the settings short of a low contrast Cinema mode are going to give you a picture bright enough to get IR from. I do believe the severity varies and the panel becomes more resistant as it ages though, accounting for a lot of the variance between user experiences.

Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones 

What settings are you using on your Panasonic? I have used both a 50" and 55" ST50 extensively without real issues. I've noticed a very slight IR maybe a few times when I had the screen black actually looking for it. In regular viewing I've never had an issue and i've had many pairs of eyes on my set. I don't play video games but have watched sports and news channels plenty. Also hooked a PC up and have spent hour + web surfing

Originally Posted by JSpectre88 

Just curious, does anyone else get IR from the menu? I get terrible IR from frequent use of the menu screen. I know I like to play around with the settings too much and yesterday I was trying to calibrate Game mode (which was a huge waste of time). It's not like the Menu is really up there for very long periods of time, even if used frequently. I don't suppose the total time on screen could have been more than 15 minutes, although the lettering is large and very bright. Here's a picture of IR left over from the menu after about 15+ hours of continuous content, the entire word "Menu" was easily visible on any content when it occurred. It just seems strange to get worse IR from the Menu than displaying the bright white History logo for at least a continuous 1.5 hours. (2 hours minus commercials). It might be difficult to see, but there's a faint outline of the "M" and "e" still.

Originally Posted by jerrolds 

I did exactly what youre doing, almost - i swapped out my ST50 for a E6500 (which uses the same exact panel as the 7000/8000) - and regretted it as soon as i fired up the Samsung. Buzzing, poorer blacks was not worth it for me. Yes IR sucks, but its manageable where the common buzzing found on Samsungs is not. I thought i would get used to the black levels..but after 2 weeks - i couldnt. So i went back and forked over the $400 difference and have been happy with my final purchase.

If the ST50 was a 10 for PQ, and 10 for blacks - relatively the E6500 would be about a 8.5 for PQ and a 7 for black levels.

Originally Posted by JSpectre88 

It really comes down to what you want to use the TV for. If you're mainly interested in watching blu-rays then you can work around the other issues with little trouble. If you like to watch CNN or ESPN for 6+ hours and have long video-game sessions, especially if you play the same game frequently, then I think it's a different story. It's possible that after 500-1000 hours your IR issues may become less cumbersome, but some people's viewing habits are just not suitable for a plasma. Even with my IR issues I'm still perfectly happy with the set, I understood the risks before I purchased.

Originally Posted by vilago 

+1
true.
6+ hours of espn or cnn is A LOT of viewing time for those channels in one day over a consistent period though. if you truly watch that much cnn or espn EVERY DAY then yes it will leave it's mark on your set, and in which case you might want to reconsider something else.
That being said I have been playing black ops 2 every day for probabaly 2-3 hours on average, with some sessions lasting more than 4 hours since the game came out in november and so far there has been no permanent marks left. when i first started playing i noticed a bit of IR from the ammo counters (which was temporary), either due to me playing more often when the game was new or my set actually being newer therefore more prone to IR. at this point i probably have around 1000 hours on the set. my point is that 2-3 hours of any content should not leave any lasting impression. these things aren't as fragile as glass they do have some IR resistance you just have to play with your settings and content to get a feel for what sort of images leave marks after a certain amount of time.

Originally Posted by Camster 

I have a 65 ST50 that has not been babied much & I have never even seen a hint of IR on this set yet. My son has gamed mercilessly on it the past week with his new PS3 & God of War games & still nothing. Back when my G20 was new he did something similar & I had a HUD on the set for a good week that went away. My set is only 2 months old so it wouldn't have a lot of hours on it yet. I sympathize with those having issues & admit IR issues had me nervous about buying this model but it has been a champ. The only issue I have had is what I think is handshaking with my WDTV Live once in a while but resetting the player seems to fix that. Anyways I didn't chime in to rub salt on open wounds just to let some people know some of us are having good luck in this regard too.

Cam

Originally Posted by fever24 

Finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...Panasonic rep confirmed they have a new 55ST50 ready to send me next week to replace my 1 year old set that had burn-in.

Worst case scenario I get a TV that is prone to the same problem but I'll try to be a bit more careful with it. Best case I get one that seems to be more tolerant like some have said they have.

Overall the 5 weeks this has taken to resolve itself is frustrating and going back to watching my little 32" LCD has been painful so glad it will be over.

Originally Posted by fever24 

Finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...Panasonic rep confirmed they have a new 55ST50 ready to send me next week to replace my 1 year old set that had burn-in.

Worst case scenario I get a TV that is prone to the same problem but I'll try to be a bit more careful with it. Best case I get one that seems to be more tolerant like some have said they have.

Overall the 5 weeks this has taken to resolve itself is frustrating and going back to watching my little 32" LCD has been painful so glad it will be over.

Originally Posted by vilago 

i also have this same problem. i am not sure if it's the set or the WD. it happens probably every other time i turn it on which is quite often. i find that unplugging just the hdmi cable for a few seconds then plugging it back into the WD fixes it. hopefully the next firmware will clear that up (along with a few other things lol)

Originally Posted by DarkZelda 

I've been watching this thread for quite sometime and it appears that Panasonic Canada is actually listening to their customer complaints.

We have a similar problem with our UT50, and I must say it was very frustrating getting anywhere with Panasonic Concierge. After speaking to the first rep about the image retention on our set, I asked the rep how would he feel if the situation was happening to him (babied the set, followed a break in period and still got image retention that was not going away after trying for 160 + hours addressing the problem, and ending up in worse shape with the Viera menu IR) He replied, "I don't own a plasma TV". Frustrated with the answer, I asked to speak with a supervisor. I got the same song and dance about "Image retention/burn in was not covered by warranty", to which I asked the same question and got the same answer, "I don't own a plasma TV, would you like to lodge a complaint?" IMHO, this does not speak well for persons representing their company.

It was only when someone from Panasonic phoned me and sent out a technician that we are getting somewhere. We've been without our TV for 2 weeks now and unfortunately they are not replacing the set but instead replacing the A and SC boards (which I am very puzzled as to why). After 160-200 hrs of running WOW pixel flipper, the WOW retail loop zoomed, and the scroll bars, we had the original IR that had only somewhat faded plus the Viera menu IR, ghosting from who knows what, DSE, and you could also see what appeared to be line bleed from the Viera menu IR (visible on a blue background and the white scroll screen)

This is extremely disappointing to have this happen on a set that we had for only 2 months. I'm just flabbergasted to read some of the comments here. For some of us, a number of these sets are defective and image retention/ image burn is REAL and not something we purposely caused or for that matter could avoid.

Originally Posted by DarkZelda 

... I got the same song and dance about "Image retention/burn in was not covered by warranty"...

Originally Posted by BassLake 

" Is there somekind of customer protection at Canada? Maby you could contact to them? "
That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Here in Canada consumers are easy pickings and the companies know it.

Originally Posted by demonRR 

BB geek squad protection for 5 yrs. covers everything, i/r and b/i and rplecement if cant fix after 3 tries. i already returned one 55st50 due to b/i that would not go away (no break in period). currently on 2nd set with 200hr burn in w/ slides and about 200 hrs watching tv. still get i/r, but goes away after a day or so. still not pleased with the i/r tho.these damn local stations are killing me with their big-bright logos. fox2, history channel, ect.

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski 

Would VT50 be any better in terms of IR and burn in than ST50? Anyone done that move and happy now? Or would it be better to wait for 2013 models?

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski 

Would VT50 be any better in terms of IR and burn in than ST50? Anyone done that move and happy now? Or would it be better to wait for 2013 models?

Originally Posted by sheshechic 

The 2013 models don't change significantly enough. All plasmas are subject to ir, some get it more quickly and it seems that Panasonics do. From reading reviews and this forum, it seems to me that the ST is most vulnerable of the 3 top models, but that could be due to the fact that more people bought the ST and that more ST owners game on a regular basis for long periods of time. In addition, some people freaking out over ir can't see it with regular content and some just don't know how to wipe it off. Some people never read the manual or use the onboard Help which is the equivelent of what we're used to receiving as a manual (can be downloaded).

IMO, go for the GT50.

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski 

I know plasmas are subject to IR and burn in but my ST is way too vulnerable so that I could use it normal way. I guess I need to consider VT50 (since there are no bigger models of GT50 available where I live) or wait and see what 60-series will offer. Any leaked information what panel generation will be in 60-series?

Originally Posted by Make73 

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/
They couldn´t wipe IR from GT50.
Sure that is accidental burn-in test but tells also something how big problem it could be with channel logos, game HUDs etc.

Earlier...panel replaced at service because of burn-in and yesterday it gone again to service because of burn-in...
Got phone call from Panasonic Finland, they refund vendor and I have to deal with vendor, moneys back or something for replacement. Service manager from Panasonic told that they don´t have 55ST50 anymore and was little skeptic that I may use TV some abnormal way. Told him that this is not true, drove break-in slides 200 hours, calibrated, always used True Cinema and didn´t watch any channel where is bright opaque logo over 1-2 hours.
I asked if it possible to get upcoming ST60 for replacement but didn´t agree.
Now I´m waiting contact from vendor what to do.
So, whatever manual says it´s fault which belongs under warranty.

Hope they get rid off this kind of problems, without burn-in´s PQ is anyhow just awesome.

The cure
The advice offered most often to sufferers of burn-in is to "watch 24 hours of static," but as no one uses analog tuners anymore, this is hardly helpful. In truth, running any full-screen image works just as well. We used the same "burn-in" disk as before and left it running over the long Memorial Day weekend.

As a result of four days' continuous running -- equivalent to almost a month's normal viewing -- the retained image on the VT50 basically vanished. The residual image on the GT50, while much fainter than it appeared at first, was still discernible, so we ran the disk for another couple of nights.

Disaster struck again, this time after my colleague David Katzmaier had set up the overnight loop. It stopped on the same title screen, imprinting the same static image even further.

Originally Posted by sheshechic 

Amazon is excellent for online buying, they price match, returns are easy and you get 30 days to do that. No need for a van or truck. Also a 14 days best price guarantee. If you don't like the price right now (not the lowest) then place it in your cart and check your cart every now and then, it will tell you if there's an increase or reduction- even if you "save for later."

IMO, the price difference between the GT50 and VT50 don't justify the cost. I've had both.

The panels for 2013 are the same as 2012, some processing has changed. The VT changes some with a pop up camera, speakers on the side and some other stuff.