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Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 23

post #661 of 730
3/2/13 at 3:27pm
Here here...that is my fear that my replacement will just do the same thing. I am going to try and baby it a bit more but at some point you just need to be able to watch normal TV and not always be looking over your shoulder.
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post #662 of 730
3/3/13 at 6:12pm
im done looking over my shoulder (so to speak). if i get any serious i/r or burn in, the set is going to geeksquad for repairs, or i want a new set, period. no one should have to walk on egg shells when they are watching a 1300.00 freakin tv set. panny needs to either fix it, get it right (the 2nd opr 3rd time around), or dont sell the sets to the general public.

sorry, im just frustrated at the quality of the set and the damn glare filter is horrible if you dont have any glares (like me). its like my tv set has permanet sunglasses on.
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post #663 of 730
3/4/13 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fever24 View Post

Well finally...and Fever means finally...after 6 weeks I have a new 55ST50 back home courtesy of Panasonic Canada to replace my burn-in suffering predecessor.

Now the question is how to better manage this seemingly habitual problem with this particular model?

Panel prep slides do not help with burn-in protection from what I understand, just ages the pixels equally. I didn't run these last time.

Panasonic Canada rep told me a I had to run the white wipe slide every time I was done watching, really?

Zooming any 4:3 content is doable but shouldn't be necessary.

If anyone has a top 3 list of things that should be done to avoid panel burn-in let me know.

I also had 2 60ST50, where i finally settled on the 2nd one after the Samsung 6500 was not nearly as good in other areas. I prepped for 124hrs or so - and kept full screen on til about the 250hr mark - currently around the 400hr mark and watch one broadcast with a white logo and stubborn IR is there after watching it for a couple hours a day for a few days

Luckily it is IR and continuing to mix in content/scrolling bars cures it after a while (over the weekend when i dont watch that particular broadcast) - still super happy with it, and it seems like iR is getting better as it gets past 400hrs..but will continue to monitor.

Just keep mixing in full screen content when you can and try not to watch anything with solid light logos for more than an hour or so at at time. Keep switching and you wont get burn in - maybe stubborn IR but you can fix by running noise/slides over night or over a few days.
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post #664 of 730
3/4/13 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I dont want to argue. I just wanted to make a point. Sorry I used you as an example but I think you are the only person I have heard of that has burned up 2 sets. True burn in is very rare. Most people mistake stubborn Image Retention with Burn In because they dont have the patience to wait for it to go away. Thats what happened to Frank Spizzirri. He called Panasonic in a panic because he had ir telling them it was burn in and by the time the tech got out there it was nearly gone and they told him there was nothing wrong with his panel.

^
this
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post #665 of 730
3/4/13 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fever24 View Post

Here here...that is my fear that my replacement will just do the same thing. I am going to try and baby it a bit more but at some point you just need to be able to watch normal TV and not always be looking over your shoulder.

it's good practice to keep an eye on it from time to time. nothing extreme, just put up a solid gray slide and make sure there's nothing developing. you can't ever really just forget you have a plasma after xxx number of hours though.
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post #666 of 730
3/5/13 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

I know plasmas are subject to IR and burn in but my ST is way too vulnerable so that I could use it normal way. I guess I need to consider VT50 (since there are no bigger models of GT50 available where I live) or wait and see what 60-series will offer. Any leaked information what panel generation will be in 60-series?

I've got an ST that I bought in October 2011. I'm disabled due to a car accident, so I watch a LOT of TV, typically 12-14 hours per day eek.gif I was a little leary of burn in, either mid to long term with this high amount of usage. As it turned out, I can say I have zero! smile.gif I didn't really break it in any particular way, just started watching it 12-14 hours per day. Sometimes watching the same channel for 4-5 hours. The color is deep and rich and the blacks are well super black. I couldn't be more happy with this set! It has been one of the best buys a guy can get on a low-mid level plasma, IMO. I feel I'm fairly qualified to chime in about burn-in due to the extent that I watch TV daily. I can't imagine that this isn't typical of this model/set. I hope this helps some folks on the fence about purchasing. I'd have paid twice what I bought this set for, now that I know the picture quality and the resistance to burn-in. cool.gif
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post #667 of 730
3/5/13 at 2:25pm
I just passed my 30 day return window and didn’t even realize it – I haven’t given a second thought to returning it. Actually just had to look to see what day I got it to even know it has passed 30 days.

I really couldn’t be happier with it. I bought more Blu-ray discs in the last month than I may have of DVD’s and Blu-ray discs combined over the last 15 years (that’s not very many LOL, but still). I’ve taken up renting from Red Box too now. I’ve been super impressed with just how pretty the picture is. I have a new appreciation for Blu-ray btw. I vacillated between getting this and a lcd and while I’m sure the lcd would have been pretty awesome – this set is beautiful!

I’ve really not noticed any issues with image retention. I have a timer set to shut off at 1:30am in the event I fall asleep watching it. It actually has multiple timers. It’s got a lot more ‘smart’ features generally than what I expected out of it.

Seriously, highly recommend going plasma to anyone considering it.
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post #668 of 730
3/6/13 at 8:36am
A quick question about using the D-Nice slides for 100 hours. I have the slides downloaded, I made sure Picture mode is custom, my question is this: D-nice mentions “Slideshow settings” and this list 7 categories settings, are these setting in the ST50? If so how do I get to these setting, I’m sure I’m missing something simple but I don’t want to start slideshow until I am sure I have everything setup correct.

Thanks
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post #669 of 730
3/6/13 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

Mine has well over 2000 hours on it and IR and burn in is as bad as before. If I watch a channel with bright logo for two hours I can see that logo for several weeks. Also subtitles have left dark bars that show on solid color background. Picture quality is amazing...

I was afraid that would be the case. Seems like Panasonic cut some corners somewhere to get the fairly impressive black and brightness performance from these TVs (something to do with over-volting to produce higher peak brightness maybe? I just made that up of course). I'm happy enough with my purchase, considering the image quality and the price (half what I paid for my non-Elite Pioneer back when they were a thing), but the IR is annoying enough that I'm already planning to replace it (not the 5080 that still sits in my living room) if the 2014 models can sort out the IR issues. Not expecting a lot from 2013, but I could be wrong.

Well, the ZT60 seems to be an entirely new panel so I'd like to know what its IR performance is like. I imagine it could be a preview of what the 2014 mid-tier plasmas will be like.
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post #670 of 730
3/6/13 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereklsj View Post

I've got an ST that I bought in October 2011. I'm disabled due to a car accident, so I watch a LOT of TV, typically 12-14 hours per day eek.gif I was a little leary of burn in, either mid to long term with this high amount of usage. As it turned out, I can say I have zero! smile.gif I didn't really break it in any particular way, just started watching it 12-14 hours per day. Sometimes watching the same channel for 4-5 hours. The color is deep and rich and the blacks are well super black. I couldn't be more happy with this set! It has been one of the best buys a guy can get on a low-mid level plasma, IMO. I feel I'm fairly qualified to chime in about burn-in due to the extent that I watch TV daily. I can't imagine that this isn't typical of this model/set. I hope this helps some folks on the fence about purchasing. I'd have paid twice what I bought this set for, now that I know the picture quality and the resistance to burn-in. cool.gif


sorry, but im about to burst your bubble on your set not having any i/r. seeing how you watched tv "right out of the box" and "the same channel for 4-5 hrs at a time", 99% chance you have some sort of i/r. watch a hockey game and look in the upper and lower corners for a light grey ghostnig image.bam, thts i/r. i still get i/r after 210 continous hrs of color slides right out the the box and regular tv watching. just cause "you" cant see it, im sure its there. sorry to rain on your parade, just keeping it real. and im on my 2nd set. granted i LOVE the PQ, and bluray movies are awesome. but as soon asi notice i/r, its very hard to not notice it during tv watching. maby its me, but i hav excellent eye sight, and do paint inspections (for flaws) on show cars for one of the big 3 auto companies before they hit the shows, events, and concept vehicles.
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post #671 of 730
3/6/13 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonRR View Post

sorry, but im about to burst your bubble on your set not having any i/r. seeing how you watched tv "right out of the box" and "the same channel for 4-5 hrs at a time", 99% chance you have some sort of i/r. watch a hockey game and look in the upper and lower corners for a light grey ghostnig image.bam, thts i/r. i still get i/r after 210 continous hrs of color slides right out the the box and regular tv watching. just cause "you" cant see it, im sure its there. sorry to rain on your parade, just keeping it real. and im on my 2nd set. granted i LOVE the PQ, and bluray movies are awesome. but as soon asi notice i/r, its very hard to not notice it during tv watching. maby its me, but i hav excellent eye sight, and do paint inspections (for flaws) on show cars for one of the big 3 auto companies before they hit the shows, events, and concept vehicles.

So your experience is everyone's ? Nope
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post #672 of 730
3/7/13 at 9:07am
If the guy's not noticed IR and is happy with the set, don't start looking for it! as that is the path to obsession and annoyance when you find what you are looking for!

I am trying to just enjoy my set - so far so good, no issues to report (*touches wood*...) and I am trying not to look too carefully at it! smile.gif
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post #673 of 730
3/7/13 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

i still think this burn-in test wasn't controlled enough to draw any meaningful conclusions at all.

what were the settings on the sets? how new were they? were they "broken in" at all? was pixel orbiter enabled on all sets? etc etc. too many unknowns to really conclude anything.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/
As a "test" it's valid enough: each plasma was brand-new as far as we know (the manufacturers could have surreptitiously aged them before sending them to us, but we doubt it), each was set to the default "Movie" or "THX Cinema" mode with no other changes made to the default settings, and each ran for the same amount of time with the same material.

If burn-in is not common problem, it´s pretty strange that c|net got two bad units, just a bad luck?

btw, I hope c|net update their Long-term plasma TV test also at this 2013 year.
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post #674 of 730
3/7/13 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

If the guy's not noticed IR and is happy with the set, don't start looking for it! as that is the path to obsession and annoyance when you find what you are looking for!

I am trying to just enjoy my set - so far so good, no issues to report (*touches wood*...) and I am trying not to look too carefully at it! smile.gif

I agree. If you don’t notice IR there is no need to go looking for it. I’ve found this site to be a great resource, good and bad, for obsessive types like myself. As Bond 007 said, If it weren’t for the slides I would not have noticed what little IR I have seen on my set. On my set, there are only 2 grey slides where the IR has even been visible. Any IR I have seen has quickly vanished after watching 5-10 minutes of full screen content. I know this b/c I’m guilty of quickly switching back and forth to the USB, that holds my slides, to check. My 60st50 is nearly a month old and performing well. I regularly game, watch sports and movies, so far so good (knock wood). I am due to have my set calibrated next week and am looking forward to see how much the pq is improved.
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post #675 of 730
3/7/13 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonRR View Post

sorry, but im about to burst your bubble on your set not having any i/r. seeing how you watched tv "right out of the box" and "the same channel for 4-5 hrs at a time", 99% chance you have some sort of i/r. watch a hockey game and look in the upper and lower corners for a light grey ghostnig image.bam, thts i/r. i still get i/r after 210 continous hrs of color slides right out the the box and regular tv watching. just cause "you" cant see it, im sure its there. sorry to rain on your parade, just keeping it real. and im on my 2nd set. granted i LOVE the PQ, and bluray movies are awesome. but as soon asi notice i/r, its very hard to not notice it during tv watching. maby its me, but i hav excellent eye sight, and do paint inspections (for flaws) on show cars for one of the big 3 auto companies before they hit the shows, events, and concept vehicles.

Why would you tell him to explicitly LOOK for problems - he's had the set for over 5 months and is completely happy with it. You said it yourself, as soon as you notice IR thats all you look at. Every panel is different and maybe his is slightly more resilient than yours or mine. You must be fun at parties. I'm sure if/when IR shows on regular programming during his normal viewing conditions - he'll come back looking for IR advise. No point it telling him its there so he can go nit pick his set. I doubt he'll be able to do any kind of return and Panasonic wont cover IR....
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post #676 of 730
3/7/13 at 1:59pm
I agree. Looking for IR is not very smart. cause if u find it, it might drive u crazy. Same goes for the people listening for a buzz with the tv on mute lol
Edited by hotskins - 3/7/13 at 2:10pm
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post #677 of 730
3/7/13 at 2:35pm
No bubble burst. I know what I can see and I'm happy with it, perfect 20/20 vision, no glasses. I've got no reason to make anything up. Sorry you're not happy with it. Good luck in finding something you like.
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post #678 of 730
3/7/13 at 2:38pm
Oh and using the "pixel orbiter" setting can't hurt either...
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post #679 of 730
3/7/13 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereklsj View Post

Oh and using the "pixel orbiter" setting can't hurt either...

Yes it can, that can even spread the burn-in if you have faulty unit which is sensible to IR.
If overscan is off then also pixel orbiter is off.
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post #680 of 730
3/7/13 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Yes it can, that can even spread the burn-in if you have faulty unit which is sensible to IR.
If overscan is off then also pixel orbiter is off.
False
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post #681 of 730
3/8/13 at 4:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

False

Really eek.gif

Operation of Pixel Orbiter is quiet different between US and European models but I believe that with both versions it´s disabled when 16:9 overscan is set to off.

Here is opinion about Pixel Orbiter by David Mackenzie who is calibrator/reviewer of HDTVtest.co.uk website:
http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7051.msg24458#msg24458
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post #682 of 730
3/8/13 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereklsj View Post

No bubble burst. I know what I can see and I'm happy with it, perfect 20/20 vision, no glasses. I've got no reason to make anything up. Sorry you're not happy with it. Good luck in finding something you like.

Just so you know, you're one of many. There are a lot of us that are perfectly happy, we just get tired of posting in this and some other threads because of the attacks/insults from frustrated (ex-)owners. But, it's good to have happy owners like yourself post every once in a while for potential buyers that might be passing through. It is impressive though, when people can tell you what your TV is experiencing based on their own statistically signficant sample size of 2-3 TVs.rolleyes.gif lol
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post #683 of 730
3/8/13 at 6:21am
This was originally posted as it's own thread, but it was recommended that I post it here:

Hi all,
So I noticed yesterday that my Panny is starting to show some image retention problems (and I do hope this is an issue of retention rather than burn). This TV is just over 3 months old, and has just over 720 hours on it. The burn-in period was respected for the first 200 hours or so with watching normal full screen programming (I was having trouble with D-Nice's slides).

I see no reason for this IR to be happening right now. I have been watching the news a lot lately, and so tickers are present rather often at the bottom of the screen, but still:
1. Those are images that are constantly moving.
2. Those images are not present during commercial breaks.
3. I have used my TV for watching Blu ray/Netflix and the like during this time period as well.

Point being, It's not like I've tried to make this happen by leaving a static image up on the screen for days at a time. I have no clue what is going on. I have attached pictures of the IR. Most notably is the little box at the lower left at the screen, and a couple of darker bars running along the bottom. They are definitely present. My hope is that a day of two of watching normal non-news programming will allow the TV to correct itself, as I have passed up Amazon's return window

Any thoughts/fixes? Am I just jumping to conclusions?

All advice is appreciated.


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post #684 of 730
3/8/13 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post



Really eek.gif

Operation of Pixel Orbiter is quiet different between US and European models but I believe that with both versions it´s disabled when 16:9 overscan is set to off.

Here is opinion about Pixel Orbiter by David Mackenzie who is calibrator/reviewer of HDTVtest.co.uk website:
http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7051.msg24458#msg24458[/quote

False at least in North America
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post #685 of 730
3/8/13 at 7:57am
i had 2 55st50's that I returned for other reasons, but both had Bad IR issues. The second one I had for approx 2 month. If you stop watching the news, the IR will go away in a few weeks( or more) with normal full screen content.

I agree, you should not have IR issues.
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post #686 of 730
3/8/13 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

False at least in North America

Okay, so when 16:9 overscan is set to off and pixel orbiter on then you can see empty/black on the edge because of moving pixels?
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post #687 of 730
3/8/13 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardofozz47 View Post

This was originally posted as it's own thread, but it was recommended that I post it here:

Hi all,
So I noticed yesterday that my Panny is starting to show some image retention problems (and I do hope this is an issue of retention rather than burn). This TV is just over 3 months old, and has just over 720 hours on it. The burn-in period was respected for the first 200 hours or so with watching normal full screen programming (I was having trouble with D-Nice's slides).

I see no reason for this IR to be happening right now. I have been watching the news a lot lately, and so tickers are present rather often at the bottom of the screen, but still:
1. Those are images that are constantly moving.
2. Those images are not present during commercial breaks.
3. I have used my TV for watching Blu ray/Netflix and the like during this time period as well.

Point being, It's not like I've tried to make this happen by leaving a static image up on the screen for days at a time. I have no clue what is going on. I have attached pictures of the IR. Most notably is the little box at the lower left at the screen, and a couple of darker bars running along the bottom. They are definitely present. My hope is that a day of two of watching normal non-news programming will allow the TV to correct itself, as I have passed up Amazon's return window

Any thoughts/fixes? Am I just jumping to conclusions?

All advice is appreciated.

Huh, maybe I'm as blind as some people here are saying. tongue.gif

I should probably wait to see if others chime in, but I honestly can't see anything clearly enough to feel confident I'm seeing what I'm supposed to look at versus camera anomolies. That said, I'm assuming that you can't see any of it during normal content - even if you are looking for it? Also, as you mentioned, seeing what's there after a couple days of non-news programming should tell you more about it.
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post #688 of 730
3/8/13 at 9:33am
Yeah the pictures don't really do it justice (you are not blind). It is very hard to see while watching normal programming, however I noticed this problem in the first place because of watching a hockey game last night. The entire game is on a white background (that being the ice, of course), and the IR was very noticeable then. It is also easier to see it if that area of the picture is moving over a solid color of any kind (such as a solid green football field, white ice rink, or flat-colored wall). It will appear as static discoloration in the shape of whatever the artifact was.

I guess what I am asking is whether I should be worried about a permanent problem, or if a little patience and different viewing will allow the picture to correct itself. I hope, as one poster suggested, that a few weeks of normal viewing will make it go away.

Part of me thinks that I should let the picture fix itself and then find someone who wants to buy it at a wicked discount, as I may just be too abusive of a TV user to own a plasma (ie, occasionally fall asleep with the thing still on). It's a shame because the PQ is outstanding on this thing. I can't imagine that an LED can compete, but I could be wrong. I'm sure there are some out there who have been in the same boat.
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post #689 of 730
3/8/13 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardofozz47 View Post

Yeah the pictures don't really do it justice (you are not blind). It is very hard to see while watching normal programming, however I noticed this problem in the first place because of watching a hockey game last night. The entire game is on a white background (that being the ice, of course), and the IR was very noticeable then. It is also easier to see it if that area of the picture is moving over a solid color of any kind (such as a solid green football field, white ice rink, or flat-colored wall). It will appear as static discoloration in the shape of whatever the artifact was.

I guess what I am asking is whether I should be worried about a permanent problem, or if a little patience and different viewing will allow the picture to correct itself. I hope, as one poster suggested, that a few weeks of normal viewing will make it go away.

Part of me thinks that I should let the picture fix itself and then find someone who wants to buy it at a wicked discount, as I may just be too abusive of a TV user to own a plasma (ie, occasionally fall asleep with the thing still on). It's a shame because the PQ is outstanding on this thing. I can't imagine that an LED can compete, but I could be wrong. I'm sure there are some out there who have been in the same boat.

Hah, that's good to know! Well, you have over 700 hours on it and this is all the issue you've had so far. I'd avoid the stuff (news and whatever) that caused it for a few days and then see how it looks. If it's making improvement then you have a good idea of how much "abuse" your set can take and what it takes to "fix" it. Then it will be up to you to decide if you want to just clear it up and then sell it or if you want to live with it. I don't even know that you need to give too "wicked" of a discount, seems like demand is pretty decent right now as people are trying to grab the 50 series before inventory dries up.
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post #690 of 730
3/8/13 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post



Really eek.gif

Operation of Pixel Orbiter is quiet different between US and European models but I believe that with both versions it´s disabled when 16:9 overscan is set to off.

Here is opinion about Pixel Orbiter by David Mackenzie who is calibrator/reviewer of HDTVtest.co.uk website:
http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7051.msg24458#msg24458


Thank you, I have reiterated several times in this thread, that the pixel orbiter is FAR more effective when the TV is set to "size 1" overscan. Give it a try, people.
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