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You could choose to actually ENJOY movies again - Page 2

post #31 of 111
Thread Starter 
You couldn't be more wrong about that one, Robert, as I delight in going against the prevailing currents around here. I definately don't need any mindless agreement from anyone. After all, I'm right and all of them are wrong.
post #32 of 111
I like Pizza.






biggrin.gif

Edit: I think the more important question should be has anyone truly had a bad pizza? Some pizza I have had has been much better than others, but I have never truly had bad pizza. Same goes for sex...........who is with me?
Edited by Toe - 6/12/12 at 7:15am
post #33 of 111
Thread Starter 
I like Chicago Deep-dish with extra cheese.
post #34 of 111
A new Seinfeld series: Arguing about arguing.
post #35 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

You claim you're not "taking sides", then you proceed to demand that anyone with an opinion contrary to yours not express that opinion. Sounds like anything but "open mindedness" on your part.

Demand??? Wow. Perhaps you're mistaking me for someone else. Its not the contrary opinions that bother me, per say. I do realize that we all have different opinions. Its when people are rude about the way they go about it. I guess the more that I think about it, I can kind of see what you mean because I think we may be coming from different angles. In my mind, I'm referring to threads that are created to talk about the "love" of a certain movie or genre and then people chiming in with negativity simpy to stir the pot. I think you're referring to threads on the discussion of a movie in general. In that case, all opinions are certainly welcome as it is a "discussion". Hopefully, I'm describing my thoughts here correctly and you get what I mean. For comparison's sake, take 2 threads. One titled, "Prometheus-Alien sequel" and one titled "Name your favorite Science Fiction Movie". To me, all opinions (positive or negative) are certainly welcome in the first thread while in the 2nd one, all opinions may not necessarily be appropriate simply because that thread is based on positive experiences and there is really no need for "debate". Unfortunately though, people still post comments like "That movie sucked" in the 2nd example even though it contributes nothing to the thread.

Whatever though. I'll leave you guys to hash this thing out. I normally only participate in one thread in this particular sub-category of AVS anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Strong opinions, even negative ones at times, are encouraging to me. It means people care about what they're discussing. People may not like the movies that are being discussed, but that means they do like movies in general. Otherwise they wouldn't waste their time.
And yes, I know there are people who argue for the sake of it, but again, I don't think that's the majority here.
Welcome to the Internet, dude. This isn't anything new; it's how it's been since the BBS days (and I know because I was there.) You're going to get negative Nancys no matter the discussion if the member base is big enough. I've been on car forums, music forums, travel forums, etc. This isn't unique to AVS forums, nor should it really be a concern if you learn to ignore them. It's that simple. And I don't think we get anywhere near an overload of Mr. Negativity types (which is the nickname a particularly downer poster got on one of my car forums. Didn't stop him.)
Your only other choice is to go offline permanently. You don't want to do that, do you? Of course not, so you just have to learn to put the overly negative stuff out of mind unless the subject at hand deserves it.

I can assure you, I'm not new to internet forums. I just took a little time out of my day to voice my thoughts on the matter. Looking back, I probably should have stayed out of it as now I feel like I'm in the middle of an ongoing "feud" that has nothing to do with me. Speaking of which, have you guys seen the Hatfields and McCoys? Good show. wink.gif
post #36 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Not at all. I've done this before. Whenever the "Critic's Disease" symptoms get too bad I remind everyone that a hobby is for having fun, and not for spreading and sharing misery.

Well, as asked, why get worked up? The only one coming across as miserable is you. And your "cure" for the disease only seems to crop up when it's a film you like.
post #37 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloCreed View Post

I can assure you, I'm not new to internet forums.

Your reaction to the negativity surprises me, then, because I don't see this forum being any more negative than any other. Or to the negativity in the 3D world (the outside, not the films.)

But then, people complain about the weather, so maybe this isn't anything new, either. tongue.gif
post #38 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I like Pizza.
biggrin.gif
Edit: I think the more important question should be has anyone truly had a bad pizza? Some pizza I have had has been much better than others, but I have never truly had bad pizza. Same goes for sex...........who is with me?

biggrin.gif Great post, Toe. I agree with its tone (perfect opening; well done, man!), content, and metaphorical meaning.
post #39 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Not at all. I've done this before. Whenever the "Critic's Disease" symptoms get too bad I remind everyone that a hobby is for having fun, and not for spreading and sharing misery. It does work, at least for a while, althouigh the number of hypercritical members is much larger than it used to be.
The people who make movies do so to pry your ticket money out of your hands (and for the other sources of revenues). You have fullfilled your purpose if you have seen the film. As for me, I'll be going again this coming weekend. I'm still thinking this will be the best straight SF movie this year, a rating I would never allow for a movie based on a graphic novel.

That last sentence is telling. Not only do you belittle a whole subgenre of films, you also seem to think you have to rate films, just like a critic. How are you different than everyone you're bashing?
post #40 of 111
Thread Starter 
I really really wish that critical thinking was still being taught sometimes. I also wish that people did not immerse themselves so deeply in a virtual world, because they lose a balanced perspective.

1) If you read the review threads here and certain other parts of AVS, you understand that the vast majority of opinions about any particular movie are negative. People talk about gouging their eyes out or never seeing a movie again. Yes, I understand hyperbole, but that's not what is happening, it's only part of it. (The AVS Blu-Ray review forum is a shining exception to this, it brings a more balanced and well organized perspective to the review of BD's. I often wish that the movie reviews were so well managed, but I also appreciate the fact that we are allowed to deviate from a fixed formula here - and are free to have discussions such as this one. In fact, there is no place for theatrical movie reviews in the AVS Forum, but they have long been tolerated here in this section - please don't abuse this toleration.)

2) I guarantee you that if you think a moment about it, you will realize that every other movie is above average. In fact, it's a mathematical certainty. YOU could choose to see only the top 10% of movies, and consider the remaining 90% as beneath your notice. But that is not the same as saying that 90% are bad. For example at 60 years of age, I seldom bother with classic Disney animated features. But when my kid was small, I saw my share. Disney makes great family movies, most of which no longer interest me - but they are not bad movies.

3) Your opinion is actually worth just as much as anybody else's opinion. That would be the cost of a movie ticket. Believe it or not, as a movie viewer, your function in life is to be a mark for those who make and distribute and display movies. As an AVS forum member, your function is to assist the others of us in deciding how much money we allocate to theater attendance, and which movies we see.

4) I don't try to see all the best films myself. I probably see 50% or less of the Oscar winners in any given year. I regularly attend movies with a group of friends, and we have been doing so for 15+ years. If nothing in the theaters interests us, we usually wind up in my home theater watching BD's or DVD's on my projector and surround sound. (I've had a HT of some type since I got my first CRT front projector in 1984.) Point of fact, I don't give a damn about the best rom-com of the year, my movie buddies are all male, and the only time I see a rom-com is with the wife, maybe 4 times a year. She sees almost all of them with her girlfriends.

5) My preferred genre is SF. Hard SF has been a passion of mine for 50 years. I started reading Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, PKD, and Bradbury at age 10. I can tolerate good fantasy such as the LOTR, and I like Westerns, Police Dramas, and Action-Adventure films, and sometimes I see animated films or documentaries. But if it's SF, I see probably 90% of them eventually. If you care to look through the archives, I have contributed something in excess of 350 movie reviews to this section of AVS since I joined in 1999. Those are about half theatrical films and half disk-based movies.

6) I myself am not immune to the critic's disease. If you look in The Avengers review thread at post #696, you will understand WHY I have not bothered to see that movie yet. I do not have any patience with "reboots". I read "Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD" in the late 1960's. and before that I was a devoted reader of "Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos" in the early 1960's. In case you are counting, Nick Fury is today 104 years old, he is of Italian-American extraction, and he doesn't look anything like Samuel L. Jackson. I will see the film eventually, but I really doubt if the quality will be good enough to overcome my dislike at the thought of the "reboot" that happened in 2002, about 40 years after I stopped reading comics (we didn't have "graphic novels", and I don't care for them anyway).

So I'm not saying anything about The Avengers, because what I have to say about that movie is not going to help my fellow AVS members make a decision about seeing it or not. I really really wish that my fellow AVS members would be thoughtfull enough to cease using this Forum as a bitch session, and instead try to help other members with their posts. Because as a founding member of AVS, I can tell you that is the real purpose of this Forum - to help your fellow members pursue and enjoy our common hobby.
post #41 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

2) I guarantee you that if you think a moment about it, you will realize that every other movie is above average. In fact, it's a mathematical certainty. YOU could choose to see only the top 10% of movies, and consider the remaining 90% as beneath your notice. But that is not the same as saying that 90% are bad. For example at 60 years of age, I seldom bother with classic Disney animated features. But when my kid was small, I saw my share. Disney makes great family movies, most of which no longer interest me - but they are not bad movies.

The problem is you're trying to apply a mathematical axiom to something that depends on subjective emotions and differing opinions on what is considered "average." You classify movies as if they lie on a spectrum from good to bad and that there is a definite center, when given most people's interpretations it's really closer to a bell curve, complete with outliers (and even that isn't completely accurate, as we'll all have different interpretations of that curve.) Trying to say every other movie is above average really doesn't jive with how most people (not just here) describe movies, IMO.
post #42 of 111
Thread Starter 
Even in 2012 I don't think there are enough movies to have the datapoints to plot any form of curve, and I'm not sure exactly why you think a bell curve is involved. But I AM certain that a simple mathematical average would have half the movies below average, and half the movies above average. The long term average over any number of years you care to consider is distorted by other factors such as the technology and affordability of special effects and video effects, or the digital revolution, or the influence of television and the presence of hundreds of cable channels as alternative distribution for movies. So I'm defending my opinion about this. But it's an interesting discussion of itself if you want to keep going.
post #43 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Even in 2012 I don't think there are enough movies to have the datapoints to plot any form of curve, and I'm not sure exactly why you think a bell curve is involved.

Because it's closer to how people assign their ratings to movies than your "spectrum" analysis is, and even then I said it isn't perfect. I don't know anyone who establishes a point on a spectrum and then assigns movie quality as being above or below it. And even if we did, we'd have differing opinions on where that center point is. The bell curve works better (but not perfectly) because people in my experience have a big glob of movies they consider "average" or at least "business as usual for the movie industry", a few that are "epically bad" and a few that are "OMG THE GREATEST THING SINCE CITIZEN KANE." Finding a center point in that mess from the average person would be nigh on impossible.

If you'd rather rate movies on a spectrum, that's fine, and you'd be correct in your own mind, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with that interpretation. I've not seen ANYONE ELSE on this forum who rates movies that way, or anywhere else (and keep in mind I live in Los Angeles, and talk to people in the industry and outside all the time about movies. Even the pros don't see it on a spectrum.)

We're not robots or computers.
Edited by Tulpa - 6/12/12 at 2:07pm
post #44 of 111
Gary referenced the Prometheus thread and claimed that what people wrote in that thread required that he needed to enlighten them that "You could, for example, wait until you have seen a movie and THEN form an opinion."

But how many people formed their opinion before seeing the movie? I looked over the thread again and found NONE. Everyone was hopeful and looking forward to it. The thread overwhelmingly carried the opinion that "I hope it's good; but of course I need to actually see it first to form an opinion." I repeatedly asked Gary for actual evidence for his assertions, but got none.

Gary has been harping on a straw man - the facts of the very thread he references proves him wrong. In fact, they prove him utterly hypocritical, given he comes on here and bemoans that people here lack a sense of proportion and inflate the negative to overwhelm the positive. That is exactly what Gary has done in assessing other people's viewpoints here! He says "The people commenting on movies in this forum are like a bunch of cranky old people. Nothing pleases them. Nothing is enough." Which is sheer unsubstantiated assertion. What I see, and I can point to any thread including the Prometheus thread, is a lot of people quite passionate about movies.
post #45 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I really really wish that critical thinking was still being taught sometimes.

Flagged for irony. Gary, I don't know about the quality of your previous thousands of posts, but your posts here show very little critical thinking, consistency or validity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

1) If you read the review threads here and certain other parts of AVS, you understand that the vast majority of opinions about any particular movie are negative.

So there you go with unsupported assertions again. Is it "critical thinking" to make unsupported assertions?

I'm going to do what you have refused to do: actually go through threads to see if they support
your assertions. Let's take the Prometheus movie thread that you continually have referenced for your grumbling.

Before the movie came out it was filled with people talking about how excited they were to see the movie. Yes SOME voiced concerns, hoping Ridley would come on his A-game, given his record since his last sci-fi films has been more spotty. But that is hardly "negative" - it's just trying to keep expectations realistic, while remaining hopeful. There simply was no prevailing tendency among us in that thread to pre-judge the movie before we saw it. Even when some early negative reviews were disheartening, we all were quite ready to judge it for ourselves. I flagged some early negative reviews, but held out for my own opinion, and reported after seeing it that, despite some flaws, I was happy to find I really enjoyed the experience of seeing Prometheus.

Now, does the Prometheus thread, the very thread that you reference, support your claim that "If you read the review threads here and certain other parts of AVS, you understand that the vast majority of opinions about any particular movie are negative."

I did the work you were unwilling to do. I looked at the comments in the Prometheus thread, from members who saw the movie, and counted them up.
Results:

Forum Member Comments after seeing PROMETHEUS:



MIXED TO GOOD:



Shaded Dogfood - hard to say, says it is beautiful and should be seen at least once in theatre
Mr.G: Eye and ear candy - 10/10. Script 6/10.
JMCecil - had it's problems but was enjoyable
Megalith - flawed but enjoyable
raaj mixed 3/5


POSITIVE TO RAVE:


MovieSwede positive
Fredrik positive
thedeskE positive "much to enjoy"
Scott Simonian positive "Move of the year* ... totally"
jcmccorm positive "I liked it a lot."
Dbuudo07 positive - not as good as alien, but still very good
Morpheo positive
buddahead: positive
DaveFi postiive
Djoel postive
Dozer42 postive
BornSlippyZ positive
neveser positive
Waboman positive
zoey67 positive rave
Rutgar positive
MSchu18 positive
Mark the Red positive
Sonisame postive
gosugadget positive
Gamereviewgod positive
Gary McCoy positive
dragonbud0 positive
bcruiser postivie
Daman S positive
tighr - appears positive



NEGATIVE:

swifty7 "piece of garbage"
Auditor55 negative "not very good"
Josh Z negative
obscuro negative
maintman negative
sage11x doesn't say but seems negative
JMCecil - didn't give full review but criticized characterization
TCW1 negative


So, out of 39 AVS member reviews of Prometheus - and keep in mind this is a movie with mixed reviews in the "outside world" - only 8 out of 39 reviews were distinctly negative. Everyone else found positives to recommend seeing Prometheus, with 26 reviews being flat out positive to rave reviews.

So the very thread you referenced in your OP refutes your claim. See what happens when people can actually check the facts? This must be why you refused to support
your assertions with facts when asked previously. It's easier to stay on the preaching box instead of supporting your criticisms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post


2) I guarantee you that if you think a moment about it, you will realize that every other movie is above average. In fact, it's a mathematical certainty. YOU could choose to see only the top 10% of movies, and consider the remaining 90% as beneath your notice. But that is not the same as saying that 90% are bad.

Someone employing critical thinking should notice what you just wrote is meaningless, given what you have left out of the equation. You can't go declaring something "average" and talk of mathematical certainty in regards to any particular subject without first having the criteria for what constitutes "good/bad/" and hence "average." Someone may have a criteria of what they think is "good" (e.g. artistic, foreign movies in the vein if Bergman and Antonioni) in which case the vast majority of movies coming out of Hollywood would rate as "below average/bad." Of course, someone else may have another subjective criteria. But insofar as you allow for the subjectivity of the viewer, this means your appeal to "mathematical averages" are MEANINGLESS across the span of viewers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

3) Your opinion is actually worth just as much as anybody else's opinion.

Only if you throw reason to the wind and drop your critical faculties. Insofar as someone merely reports they "like" a movie or not, sure everyone gets that type of opinion. But if we are talking about opinion as assessments of a film, which tend to include CLAIMS about that film, then you are quite wrong. Knowledge and expertise do count for something. If someone with little knowledge of film history praises X film for it's amazing originality, when it is clearly a complete rip-off of a previous film, someone more knowledgeable about film is better positioned to point this out, and to make a more realistic assessment of it's originality, etc. If someone with little scientific knowledge praises a manifestly unscientific film as being cogent and scientifically compelling (which has happened all too often), their view is not "worth" as much as someone more scientifically literate. Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

That would be the cost of a movie ticket. Believe it or not, as a movie viewer, your function in life is to be a mark for those who make and distribute and display movies.

First, no one with even a passing acquaintance with critical thinking and logic would make such sloppy assertions. Second, you are wrong. You call movie viewers "marks." But that is a term for the victims of confidence tricks, scams, attempts to defraud by gaining confidence.
I've been in the film business since 1984 and that does not describe ANY of the people I've worked with or for. I think people would be amazed at how much care and thought and handwringing we who make films (and even lots of TV) go through trying to make quality
work. We actually care about the results, and care to provide the viewer with as quality an experience as we can muster. Very, very few people think their movies are crap. We aren't trying to "trick" viewers and we don't think of them as "marks," nor do we think their "function in life" is to be the viewer of our work.

I do not think you are in any position to enlighten us on these matters or declare anyone's "function" in so sloppily a manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

As an AVS forum member, your function is to assist the others of us in deciding how much money we allocate to theater attendance, and which movies we see.

First…that's not my function, thank you very much. It might be one choice I make of MANY on AVSforum, but it's not my function. (You are seriously misusing terms here). I may wish to simply express my opinion on a movie. Or not.

But let's say we do have this "function" you say. Well then…when people in movie threads voice an opinion that is negative about a movie YOU get all upset about people expressing negative opinions on movies! But how is anyone to be a guide as to which movie to see if they have no criteria between good and bad, and can't talk about what movies are "bad" and why? You can't have it both ways. And you keep calling others here "hypocritical?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I will see the film eventually, but I really doubt if the quality will be good enough to overcome my dislike at the thought of the "reboot" that happened in 2002,

Wait…so you've prejudged the movie before seeing it? Exactly what you are complaining about others do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

So I'm not saying anything about The Avengers, because what I have to say about that movie is not going to help my fellow AVS members make a decision about seeing it or not.

You don't have to "help" anyone see it or not. People have their own brains. You can simply voice your opinion if you like. But it seems you have so pre-judged (ironically) your reaction to the movie you've decided your opinion will be worthless…without even seeing the movie!
But…keep harping on us about our being hypocritical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I really really wish that my fellow AVS members would be thoughtfull enough to cease using this Forum as a bitch session, and instead try to help other members with their posts. Because as a founding member of AVS, I can tell you that is the real purpose of this Forum - to help your fellow members pursue and enjoy our common hobby.

Which you say in a thread that has been your personal bitch session, and which has involved casting general aspersions on the members here, and thereby engendering bad feelings.

Well done.

Rich
Edited by R Harkness - 6/12/12 at 4:22pm
post #46 of 111
Thread Starter 
R Harkness, I have been extremely carefull in this thread to remain impersonal and not to criticise anyone in particular. If you found offense in anything I said, I would suggest that you found the entirely impersonal criticism applicable to yourself.

I have been following the Prometheus thread since it started. I don't happen to believe that you read all 1130-odd comments in the 37 pages of opinions posted BEFORE the movie was released in the short period before your reply. I observe from what you did post that you read the portion created AFTER the movie was released, to which my remarks do not apply. Thus you didn't really take the time to understand any of what I was saying before firing your response.

I have made my point and almost everyone has understood. You and one other member have taken exception to what I said. I'm sorry to have to point that out. I like it here, it's one of my favorite web hangouts. I certainly don't want it to degenerate into one of those places where members attack each other. In fact AVS rules forbid it and you have certainly crossed the line. Therefore I'm not continuing this discussion.
post #47 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

R Harkness, I have been extremely carefull in this thread to remain impersonal and not to criticise anyone in particular.

That is no excuse if what you are doing is casting aspersions, spraying insults indiscriminately, which is what you are doing. Without backing it up. This is what I've been trying to point out to you, at first as diplomatically as possible, but then you only got worse instead of realizing how you were coming off.

You seem baffled as to why anyone should take offense at your comments here. I'm trying to explain to you why your approach simply isn't as benign and "helpful" as you think it is. To see how, try looking at it this way: "Fred" walks into a party and says "I just want to give some advice here. There's just a lot of hypocrisy and lying going on here with a lot of you. I'm just saying that I think this party would be a lot better if people could stop the lying and hypocrisy.

Someone speaks up and says: What do you mean? Who are you talking about? I know I don't fit that description. So who here does?

Fred: Look, I'm not going to make this personal and name names. But the place is rife with it.

Others: Actually, we don't know who fits that description?

Fred: I don't need to name names: you know who you are!


Well, given that NO ONE thinks they fit Fred's description, the conclusion is Fred is making a false accusation about the crowd. Which leaves any number of people wondering "Is he lobbing this false accusation at me? Or at Jim, who doesn't fit that description either? Or at Sue who doesn't?" See, the result isn't Fred being a nice, diplomatic guy in not giving particulars: the result is actually the opposite: by not being specific and not backing up his claims, MANY MORE people are offended than they otherwise would have been.

Then when someone starts pointing to actual facts that support that the party is NOT comprised of many hypocrites and liars, Fred just keeps making the accusation anyway "But...nothing personal...I'm still not going to name anyone or support
my accusation."


What kind of words would we have to describe Fred's actions? I don't think any of them would be good words.

This is how you have gone about "enlightening" us here. Your posts have accused this forum as being significantly filled with hypocrites etc. Casting general aspersions that you do not back up. You've said people here "wallow in misery page after page." That it seems " many, many of you who (judging solely by your complaining comments in this Forum) have not enjoyed any movie made by anyone since your teen years," (again, another totally unsupported insult), that YOU KNOW who is "always critical" and "who has never admitted to actually enjoying any of the films they have commented on." Again, an insult with no support. You said look at the first 1000 posts of the Prometheus thread and that the word "hypercritical" comes to mind. What an insulting accusation, again, with no particulars. You say "The people commenting on movies in this forum are like a bunch of cranky old people. Nothing pleases them. Nothing is enough." Again, insult without support. You toss another insult indiscriminately: "I really really wish that my fellow AVS members would be thoughtful enough to cease using this Forum as a bitch session." Then you imply that the responses to your unsupported accusations here display a lack of critical thinking. No insult there, huh? And when I actually show you are wrong with actual facts - pointing out how the positive reactions in the Prometheus thread contradict your accusations - instead of manning up and admitting it contradicted your claims, you resort to a childish "Well, if you are offended my criticisms must pertain to you." That's like walking into the party and saying "Some of you here are idiots" and anyone speaking up to say that claim is false, the response is "Gee, if you are offended by my accusation, it can only be because you are one of the idiots. It can't be that my claim is offensive and false."

So, you just toss off this insult into the crowd, not naming names and pretending that is being a good guy about it. No. You are being "Fred" which is what I'm trying to get through to you. You may have had something to offer, but you did it in a very self-righteous, poorly handled manner that got in the way of making people want to hear what you have to say. Even the title of your thread implies people here do not "enjoy" movies and that we need YOU to enlighten us on how to enjoy them "again." But no one fits the description of the strange person you seem to have in mind, and you refuse to point to any posts that fit that description...so it just comes off as a self-righteous, indiscriminately insulting thread. You may not mean it to be: but your approach makes it appear so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I have been following the Prometheus thread since it started. I don't happen to believe that you read all 1130-odd comments in the 37 pages of opinions posted BEFORE the movie was released

Actually, I did. I followed that entire thread in real time as it happened. I am quite aware of how your accusation does not fit what people wrote. (I also re-skimmed many pages before I posted, finding your accusations are unsupported).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

in the short period before your reply. I observe from what you did post that you read the portion created AFTER the movie was released, to which my remarks do not apply. Thus you didn't really take the time to understand any of what I was saying before firing your response.

That is false. You have made claims both about people making up their minds about a movie before it comes out - which I have addressed, AND you included disparaging claims about people's reviews of movies they have seen. Have you forgotten your own posts? The following are insults aimed directly at people who have commented on movies they have seen:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I've been around this Forum long enough to know who is always critical and who has never admitted to actually enjoying any of the films they have commented on.

The people commenting on movies in this forum are like a bunch of cranky old people. Nothing pleases them. Nothing is enough. Even those 50% of movies that are above average (note that phrase, it's a mathematical certainty) don't ever get a break, everything is just SO BAD that they can't be bothered to see it more than a few times and crank out 10+ pages of discussion.

And the response you evaded also the same:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

"1) If you read the review threads here and certain other parts of AVS, you understand that the vast majority of opinions about any particular movie are negative. People talk about gouging their eyes out or never seeing a movie again."

Clearly that pertains to movie reviews here, and much of what followed pertained to movie reviews, not simply anticipatory comments.

Your posts have been needlessly insulting and self-righteous in tone, they have been shown to also bear false claims. It's a shame you refuse to acknowledge this, or acknowledge any criticism as legitimate. So long.
Edited by R Harkness - 6/12/12 at 8:56pm
post #48 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I like Chicago Deep-dish with extra cheese.

Good for you, because the people here in Chicago rarely eat it themselves. Thanks for supporting us, though. wink.gif

post #49 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

6) I myself am not immune to the critic's disease. If you look in The Avengers review thread at post #696, you will understand WHY I have not bothered to see that movie yet. I do not have any patience with "reboots". I read "Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD" in the late 1960's. and before that I was a devoted reader of "Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos" in the early 1960's. In case you are counting, Nick Fury is today 104 years old, he is of Italian-American extraction, and he doesn't look anything like Samuel L. Jackson. I will see the film eventually, but I really doubt if the quality will be good enough to overcome my dislike at the thought of the "reboot" that happened in 2002, about 40 years after I stopped reading comics (we didn't have "graphic novels", and I don't care for them anyway).
So I'm not saying anything about The Avengers, because what I have to say about that movie is not going to help my fellow AVS members make a decision about seeing it or not. I really really wish that my fellow AVS members would be thoughtfull enough to cease using this Forum as a bitch session, and instead try to help other members with their posts. Because as a founding member of AVS, I can tell you that is the real purpose of this Forum - to help your fellow members pursue and enjoy our common hobby.

Gary: I know you know I wasn't asking your opinion of The Avengers. To make it clearer: If your premise is that the majority of posters on this forum are negative, how do you explain the overwhelming positive response to the film in the thread? But since you brought it up...if you are so bitter over a reboot in the source material long before the film was even made that you KNOW you won't like the film aren't you guilty of what you're complaining about?
post #50 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloCreed View Post

I, for one, tend to enjoy movies, bad or not.
This statement....I can't rationalize.eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

It's not that I dislike movies, it's that I disliked THAT movie. And I think most of us here are the same. If we disliked movies in general, we wouldn't be on this site or watching them.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Not at all. I've done this before. Whenever the "Critic's Disease" symptoms get too bad I remind everyone that a hobby is for having fun, and not for spreading and sharing misery.
Gary, you do realize that definitions for what a "hobby" is or is not can be many different things, right?
And not everyone considers their posts to be "spreading and sharing misery," right?

Quote:
The people who make movies do so to pry your ticket money out of your hands (and for the other sources of revenues). You have fullfilled your purpose if you have seen the film.
"purpose?"
I don't understand why you wish to describe members posting in terms of absolutes....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

You failed to take your own advice regarding this forum. It seems you can't have fun unless others agree with you.
Well, there is THAT.
post #51 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

Gary: I know you know I wasn't asking your opinion of The Avengers. To make it clearer: If your premise is that the majority of posters on this forum are negative, how do you explain the overwhelming positive response to the film in the thread? But since you brought it up...if you are so bitter over a reboot in the source material long before the film was even made that you KNOW you won't like the film aren't you guilty of what you're complaining about?

One. More. Time.

I have not seen The Avengers. I probably will see it but I will probably wait for the BD version. It's not anything I care a great deal about and I have a conceptual problem with the reboot.

That has been my whole point all along. See the movie before forming an opinion. Don't express a negative opinion in AVS or anywhere else before you have seen it.

I don't know a whole lot about the thread for the Avengers, either, because I simply quit reading after I found out it was the 2002 reboot and not the Avengers I remembered. I continued to read the Prometheus thread and THAT was the one where I found overwhelming negative posts before the movie premiered.
post #52 of 111
Lol. Just realized I left out the 'i' in 'movie'. Yeesh... redface.gif

In the context of this thread... I don't let other peoples opinions steer away any personal interest I have in a movie. Unless I am feeling adventurous and looking for something I had not heard of, I may see if a particular movie is getting good word of mouth here but nowhere else. Cuz...well, I trust most of the opinions around here. However, if I like a movie, I like a movie. If someone doesn't and writes a well articulated comment about why said movie sucks, I'll take it in but that's all. I usually know if I am going to like a movie just by the trailer. I have been duped that way many times but usually I am not disappointed.

As for Prometheus. Sure, it isn't perfect but I think it was a great Sci-Fi movie and I don't get to see these as much anymore. I'm not going to nitpick and get my panties in a bunch like so many Alien fanboys seem to be wrt Prometheus. I don't get it. What were you expecting? Anyway, I'd like to know but that won't stop me from liking this new movie. I've seen it twice and it's a new release that I will for sure pick up on Blu-ray unlike so many movies I see these days.
post #53 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post


Gary, you do realize that definitions for what a "hobby" is or is not can be many different things, right?
And not everyone considers their posts to be "spreading and sharing misery," right?
I don't think Gary agrees with either of those. I think what defines his purpose for starting this thread is what he said here:
Quote:
I'm right and all of them are wrong.
Even though Rich proved it's Gary who is wrong.
post #54 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I have not seen The Avengers It's not anything I care a great deal about and I have a conceptual problem with the reboot.

I don't know a whole lot about the thread for the Avengers, either, because I simply quit reading after I found out it was the 2002 reboot and not the Avengers I remembered.

You're still prejudging the Avengers movie and in your own bloodly words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Everybody expounding over what THEY want the film to be, and making it clear how disappointed they will be if it's NOT what THEY want.

My main point was that many dozens of posters in the first 1000 posts had already decided - before anybody anywhere had seen any version of the movie - that they did or did not care for the plot elements, or the casting, or the concept of a prequel, or something else.

You CANNOT order a custom movie, constructed to your personal taste. If you express the wish for such, especially in an online Forum read only by AVS members, you understand that you will be disappointed.
The essence of my suggestion was, you can in fact choose NOT to be disappointed, by not expressing a wish for a custom movie to your tastes. You are NOT, after all at a pizzaria or anywhere else that you have any degree of choice about movie plot elements. In this case, you can choose When you see the movie, Where you see the movie, Who you see it with, and Whether you see the 2D or the 3D version of the movie. But you can't pick anything about the plot. In fact, if you predetermine your like or dislike of the movie based on your personal set of desired plot elements, you will be disappointed in virtually every case.

You're doing the exact same thing for the Avengers that you accuse people of doing in Prometheus.

And don't give me any lame excuses. "Oh, but Sgt. Fury is an established property!" So was Alien. "Oh, but I'll see it, on BLU-RAY!" So will most of the "critics" of Prometheus. "Oh, but it's nothing like the Sgt. Fury I KNEW!" And I bet Prometheus has some equally significant changes. "Oh, but it isn't my personal taste, but a travesty of comic books!" All of it is personal, as it's based on our emotions or feelings, whether it be expectations in the Avengers or in Prometheus.


Come on, Gary. It's proof positive that the Prometheus film is one of your "chosen" films, one that you deemed being the "best SF film of 2012", which given the somewhat dearth of SF films so far, is like being the thinnest kid at fat camp. So any criticism towards the film, which you seem unable to address in a clear and rational manner, is instead made the target in a childish "YOU GUYS HATE MOVIES" attack that is insulting and unbecoming.
post #55 of 111
Thread Starter 
Look, I don't have a problem with anyone expressing an informed opinion AFTER they have actually seen a movie. Some of you have your taste stored in a difficult to access part of your anatomy but as long as you bother to actually watch a movie before expressing an opinion, I don't care. I refer you to my original post where I talked about over 1100 posts and numerous comments on the quality of Prometheus before the movie premiere.

My original comment and the one I keep repeating is DON'T make up your mind before anybody has seen the movie and DON'T pre-judge it, because you yourself will enjoy it more than you would if the only reason you are watching is to confirm how bad you think it is. Nor will I get annoyed with you because you are blowing unfounded BS about a movie I happen to enjoy. Life is too short to drink bad wine or to watch bad movies.
post #56 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

People talk about gouging their eyes out or never seeing a movie again. Yes, I understand hyperbole, but that's not what is happening, it's only part of it. (The AVS Blu-Ray review forum is a shining exception to this, it brings a more balanced and well organized perspective to the review of BD's. I often wish that the movie reviews were so well managed,

That's pretty hilarious, because when I visit the Blu-ray Software forum, I see dozens of threads filled with lunatics screaming, "OH MY GOD, THE DNR IS EVERYWHERE!!! THE HORROR, THE HORROR!!! BURN EVERY COPY! GRAB YOUR PITCHFORKS, WE'RE GOING TO MURDER THE STUDIO HEADS FOR THIS!!!!"
post #57 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

That's pretty hilarious, because when I visit the Blu-ray Software forum, I see dozens of threads filled with lunatics screaming, "OH MY GOD, THE DNR IS EVERYWHERE!!! THE HORROR, THE HORROR!!! BURN EVERY COPY! GRAB YOUR PITCHFORKS, WE'RE GOING TO MURDER THE STUDIO HEADS FOR THIS!!!!"

LOL!biggrin.gif "I'm not buying a [insert studio name] disc ever again" is a recurring theme as well tongue.gif
post #58 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

This statement....I can't rationalize.eek.gif

Read further my friend. I followed that comment up with a little more detail in a later response. I enjoy the movie-watching experience (home theater, drinks, relaxing, etc) and even if the movie itself ends up being disappointing, I still tend to enjoy myself. Watching movies is one of my favorite hobbies. It's not necessarily conditional on the movie. I also enjoy watching sports (specifically the Braves and Cowboys). Things don't always turn out the way I want them to, but I understand that going in. That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy myself regardless of the outcome.
post #59 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

That's pretty hilarious, because when I visit the Blu-ray Software forum, I see dozens of threads filled with lunatics screaming, "OH MY GOD, THE DNR IS EVERYWHERE!!! THE HORROR, THE HORROR!!! BURN EVERY COPY! GRAB YOUR PITCHFORKS, WE'RE GOING TO MURDER THE STUDIO HEADS FOR THIS!!!!"

Good point. This is the kind of thing I ignore completely. I don't let those kinds of things stop me from enjoying the damn movie. I still stand by that my copy of Dark City on BD is much better than my old-ass dvd. Wow, DNR? Omfg run!!! rolleyes.gif Lol, yeah...I'll keep watching my BD, thank you.
post #60 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

One. More. Time.
I have not seen The Avengers. I probably will see it but I will probably wait for the BD version. It's not anything I care a great deal about and I have a conceptual problem with the reboot.
That has been my whole point all along. See the movie before forming an opinion. Don't express a negative opinion in AVS or anywhere else before you have seen it.
I don't know a whole lot about the thread for the Avengers, either, because I simply quit reading after I found out it was the 2002 reboot and not the Avengers I remembered. I continued to read the Prometheus thread and THAT was the one where I found overwhelming negative posts before the movie premiered.

One. More. Time. You ignore whatever doesn't fit your thinking. You said threads of films on avs are full of negative bitch comments, I offerred one that isn't , you disregard it. This is getting pretty silly...
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