You could choose to actually ENJOY movies again - Page 3

Enjoying watching a movie is not conditional on the content of the movie. Fascinating, if rather nonsensical.

When I go into a movie, I expect a certain competence of craft, and when I don't see it, I get a bit miffed. Same with any sporting event.

No one is questioning that you can enjoy the experience, but in the case of sports and movies, there are still bad performances/issues that you can criticize. You can still be critical of the team's performance, just as you can be critical of how the movie came across.

When Leon Lett did that boneheaded move against Miami during the field goal that cost Dallas a win in '93, do you think that deserved no criticism whatsoever? True, they went on to win the SB, but in that moment, do you think it was reasonable to not say anything about it, as a fan of the C-Boys?

It doesn't diminish from the experience to be critical, and criticism can be cathartic.

Remember, this whole mess started when Gary accused EVERYONE in this forum of "not enjoying movies" because of some apparent critical comments of a movie he really liked, and I think his argument is absolutely silly. It's also not the first time I saw him do this. We had a thread about overrated movies, and someone mentioned Avatar. They didn't say Avatar was terrible, but that it was "overrated." He took that as an affront to what he felt was one of the greatest movies of all time, and that people should shut off their home theaters and that the critics had a certain part of their anatomy up another part. So the backlash he's getting here is not surprising to me.
Edited by Tulpa - 6/13/12 at 10:38am

Actually you do. You have been very desparaging of "many" (unnamed by you) members here who you say are extremely negative in their views of movies they have seen. You've made this accusation numerous times, including:

Which I showed to be false by actually showing you the numbers from the very thread you referenced.

Start off with another general insult. Well done. It's ironic you keep accusing others in this forum of negativity: I for one have never expressed the level of negativity you have toward the members here. And, of course, you still refuse to back up your claim about people making up their minds about Prometheus before seeing it. You say look at the thread. I did. It doesn't support your claim. I also showed you that it doesn't.


To others: Gary has complained that "many people here" find a negative in a movie and blow it all out of proportion, that people pre-judge movies before they see them, and that many people are hypocrites here.
Yet in this very thread has been based upon negativity - Gary's distorted, negative view of this forum. He has been put off by some member's views of movies, and has gone on to depict the forum as therefore being populated by hypocrites, people who don't really like movies, and people who are never satisfied with movies etc. This, in face of the facts that show he is wrong and exaggerating the negativity. Not to mention he has pre-judged The Avengers in just the way he decries...and then goes on to
claim many of us here are the hypocrites.

While this may be yet another example of internet-syndrome - someone who has backed himself into a corner but who will refuse to engage with facts that show he is wrong or admit someone else has a good point against his position - my main issue
is trying to give another view to provide balance. What I see when I visit the movie threads here is TONS of enthusiasm from people who love movies. Lots of hope for movies coming out, and lots of passionate talk about movies once they have been viewed. Negative reviews of movies don't mean for a second someone isn't a movie lover, or can't enjoy movies. I have little doubt that Gary means to include me in the negative file, meanwhile I have a collection of over 600 movies, can't stop buying them, can't stop going to them, and have devoted my whole life to the industry. And I see similar passion from others here. I enjoy seeing someone passionately de-construct a movie that disappointed him, as much as a good review. It can be quite entertaining and even enlightening, and I don't stake MY enjoyment simply on their view. This is why I find it very galling for people like Gary to come on here preaching to us about how negative we are, making false claims about how we are hypocritical, negative and can't enjoy movies, and that we need his advice on how to start enjoying movies again.

But...as has been pointed out, this is what it's like when someone's attitude is stuck on "I'm right and all of them are wrong."

Actually, based on my decade plus of participation in AVS, it seems to me that most big-budget sci-fi movies that come down the pike are preceded by a lot of positive, hopeful comments, some more than others as "Prometheus" was. Everybody is initially rooting for a winner; that's what we all want to see. That was certainly the case with this movie as other members (not Gary) have pointed out.

The exception is when a red flag is raised because of the involvement in the process of someone who's made a fair share of clunkers in the past. Michael Bay and George Lucas may immediately come to mind. Then, the negative comments are based on the "one bad apple" concept. I must admit that seeing Damon Lindelof's name atop the writing/producing credits gave me pause after how he bailed out on any kind of coherent ending to LOST, which had the potential to be one of the two or three greatest TV series of all time. It was like he was late for summer recess, tired of the weekly grind, and just wanted to get out of town fast.

The old "3 some" movie quote from Stephen Baldwin, and yes there are some horrible pizzas out there especially in the freezer section.

So true, I quit visiting that subsection a long time ago......

Exactly, [On Lindelof] I think that was my only negative impression posted in that thread. Plan to see the movie today or tomorrow, and yes like many I have high hopes for it. I didn't bother with any reviews out there, which is my normal practice anyway.

Actually you can, in a rudimentary level. For example, on disc, some releases give you options between theatrical vs director's cut or #-rated version vs unrated. So it's there but not well developed. BTW, thanks for the idea though... I'm going to get rich!

Didn't see any notes on copy rights so I figured I can copy your idea...

So every time you watch a movie that fails to live up to your standards you're night is ruined? It must be an absolute blast at your house on movie night. My point is that they all can't be classics and when I come across one that is bad, its really not that big of a deal to me.

Why are you conflating watching a movie with "ruination" of one's evening? I'm talking about movie watching qua movie watching. Whether you enjoyed the popcorn you ate during the movie, or you thought the subwoofers were well calibrated, or you enjoyed the hamburgers you ate after the movie (part of one's "evening") is irrelevant. But the content of the movie IS relevant to enjoying the movie. For you to contend otherwise is absurd, as is your implication that the capacity to like something has no connection with the capacity to dislike something.
Edited by RobertR - 6/13/12 at 12:52pm

Gary, you have decidedly painted yourself into a corner, and it's time to let this argument go. At best, your complaints come across like a petulant child whose feelings got hurt because somebody else didn't like the same movie he did. You're a big boy. Grow a thicker skin.

We argue about movies because we care about movies. We want every new movie to be good. When they fail to be good (like Prometheus utterly fails to be good), that may hit us as a crushing disappointment. This isn't because we're a bunch of sourpuss jerks who hate everything. It's because we genuinely feel that the movie failed to live up to its potential and has let us down. We complain about movies like this now, because we want the people who makes these movies to take notice and try harder next time.

If we turn off all critical thinking and just give every p.o.s. movie a pass, soon we will be living in the Idiocracy. Maybe that's fine by you, but it's not fine by me.

I may be wrong but I think one of Gary's arguments is when people get judgemental towards others as well. I really don't mind when people express their opinion about a movie, on the contrary, but when said people imply that those who like a supposedly p.o.s are clueless or simply not smart enough to see the flaws (or even when it's the other way around for that matter, it goes both ways), then no. We're all grown-ups indeed so we're supposed to handle a heated discussion, but disguised insults are not welcome. I'm not saying it's what's happening in the Prometheus thread, not at all, but it has happened in the past, and it's not quite inviting. I think the subject of movies is really too subjective and it's easy to get carried away, either when we like a film or when we hate it. Both camps just need to be careful how they voice their opinion that's all, and that's all I have to say about that.

Then it's time to update your understanding of the movie industry and the influence of the internet. For instance, if you even followed many of the interviews of the writers and actors of say, Prometheus, or for that matter most of the Superhero movies, you would know just how attuned they are to the desires of fans of those series, and how they influence choices made in writing and producing movies. Movie goers in general, and fans of genres in particular, use the internet to express their opinions, hence it certainly does matter what kind of prevailing sentiments movie makers find on the internet.


Then you have a poor understanding of human nature, and in particular, of your fellow AVS forum members. In fact, a very negative and insulting one. You keep criticizing others for being negative while being negative yourself, depicting AVS members in an insulting, dismissive manner. It's amazing how your desire to tell everyone to be more positive about movies depends on your own proclivity to take a "glass half empty" view of AVS members.

Time to reflect: As Dr. Phil would say: So how's that working for you?

It's been awhile since we have had a thread this stimulating.
Excellent analysis, interesting opinions, and good old-fashioned common sense.
Well done, everyone.

Now, let's head down to the brewpub....I'm buying.

I'm somewhat surprised to see the following sentence come from someone who wrote the above sentence. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that Prometheus utterly fails to be good to you?

I can honestly say I have NEVER had a BAD pizza. If I was not health conscious, I would probably eat it nearly every day. Some MUCH better than others, but truly bad pizza? I have yet to experience a truly bad pizza. I respect that you have though, I just hope I never know what that is like. This has nothing to do with movies by the way..........I have seen some truly bad movies, although they happen much less often when I view at home since I can usually find some redeeming quality even if the plot and/or acting is bad. I have learned to enjoy movies from multiple angles like many here. If the plot sucks, maybe the acting is still good. If the plot and acting suck, maybe the audio and or video is entertaining. If the A/V stink, hopefully the movie/acting is good enough to where it does not matter much. Of course it is great when a movie hits on all cylinders

What is the "3 some" movie quote you speak of? Not familiar with it.

How did your poll turn out on Prometheus? Where is this poll located? Just curious, I have not seen the film yet myself.
Edited by Toe - 6/13/12 at 4:03pm

Threesome, starring Stephen Baldwin. The quote in question was "Sex is kinda like pizza. When it's bad, it's still pretty good."

Damn, that movie's nearly twenty years old now.

Interesting, thanks! Never seen the movie, but I have to agree and that was my point.



Thanks man! Just a little humor attempt more than anything.....glad someone liked it.

I'm with you there! Pizza, pizza, pizza. Never bad.

With one exception actually. When my wife and I were traveling Thailand years ago we needed a break from Thai food. A local restaurant advertised Pizza on their menu so we rolled the dice and tried it. Funny thing: the ingredients
for Pizza are so basic: dough, sauce, cheese, you'd think it was almost fool-proof. But in the hands of people who didn't really "know" pizza it just came out bizzarre tasting. Sort of like Pizza from the twilight zone, where "something is not right...something has been lost in transmission here." Not like any pizza I ever had, or ever want to try again.

I eat pizza probably between 1 to 3 times a week and it never fails. (Wait...I thought of another bad one actually: In Canada by far the most ubiquitous pizza chain is Pizza Pizza. It's bland-for-the-masses lowest common denominator pizza. I liked it growing up, but as a Parent it's all you encounter wherever you go: every kid's party, Pizza pizza, every event, Pizza Pizza. I'm so sick of it it barely passes the "is it food?" test. But, I guess if I were hungry enough...)

Oh yeah: and I enjoyed Prometheus.

Great stories Rich. The closest I have come to bad Pizza was also in another country ironically in Italy. Similar to your story, it barely passed as Pizza (at least what I perceive to be pizza). Not quite bad, but definitely different then what I am used to over here!

We have a local place called Woodys only 2 blocks from our house that has a fantastic pizza buffet that we hit more then any other. I have absolutely NO control in these situations and always eat myself into oblivion!

Curious to see Prometheus. The few local people/friends I have talked to who have seen it all enjoyed it overall.
Edited by Toe - 6/13/12 at 7:03pm

Uh... that's real pizza you know. I've been to various cities in Italy and I will say that I've had some of the best pizze ever. Yes, that's how plural of pizza is spelled in Italian. My worst pizza experience? Pizza served in my high school cafeteria. My second worst pizza experience? Pizza served in my college cafeteria.

Yes, I know. Real or not, it was still some of the worst pizza I have had and it was still not bad.

You summed up EXACTLY what I have really been trying to say this entire time. I am very good at finding something redeeming about a movie (mostly the A/V experience) even if I know the movie is not really that good. There aren't many that excel on every level. In fact, most are deficient on several levels. I have calmly been trying to make the point that I don't get that fired up when a movie disappoints me. For example, I bought Underworld-ROTL, The Wolfman and Clash of the Titans.....all 3 sight unseen. IMO, they were very disappointing movies (especially Clash) but its not like I completely regret ever watching them. We still had fun.

Threesome certainly does bring back some memories. Haven't seen it in like 15 years. Good movie. You should check it out Toe.

I agree. That is one of the great things about HT IMO which is giving you more angles to enjoy a movie from which gives movies more entertainment potential in general. I have enjoyed countless movies in my HT that I otherwise would not have enjoyed if I had simply watched them on my 20" tube television with no sound system in my bedroom.

Just tried to add Threesome to my Netflix que but unfortunately it just has a "save" option right now .......... I will track it down somewhere else though.

Yes, you've done little else but send insults and negative depictions out generally towards the board. Do you think "speaking generally" makes that any better or more true, or absolves you of any responsibility to support your claims?
(Hint: it doesn't)

No, I've simply taken apart claims you have refused to support. And of course I have named YOU. YOU started the thread! It is YOUR posts that are full of the claims I wish to dispute. So of course my replies are directed TO YOU.
What in the world are you expecting? To pretend we don't know who is writing your posts????

No I haven't. What I've done is simply dispute your claims. You came on here with a negative depiction of forum members here, and I have simply been arguing that your depiction is false and unsupported; I argue for a more positive characterisation
of the forum, and I backed it up where you did not (e.g. showing your claim that most people here give negative reviews to movies - the facts don't support your assertions). If you paid attention you'd see that I'm actually at least doing you the honour of taking your post seriously enough to respond to it. Seriously even enough to actually go through threads and enumerate positive and negative comments. Instead of responding with any substance, you just act hurt and continue on your unsupported negative opinions - and insults as well (calling people here purposely obtuse etc). I haven't hurled anything like the insults you have toward the forum members here.

You did specifically aim at me at one point. And you've just done it again:


There you go again. Since I have been VERY EXPLICIT in arguing your insults and negative depictions don't apply to me you can not pretend for a second that I'd think they do. Hence the above is simply an utterly transparent swipe - an attempt to
say your criticisms actually apply to me, but pretending you aren't really saying it..so you also don't have to back it up. I've directly addressed the substance of your posts; you've simply replied with evasion or veiled (and direct) insults. I don't think
a report to moderators would actually be in your favor.

Look, I'm sure you make lots of really excellent posts here. I bet your movie reviews are quite fun to read and maybe helpful to others. But for whatever reason you took a certain stance for your OP. When it was simply challenged, when we simply asked to see the assumptions backed up or justified, you refused and simply became more and more negative and insulting to AVS members. I hope your future posts go better. In fact I'm sure I will enjoy some of your posts and agree with them.

ETA: I think this has run it's course, so I won't respond to Gary here, and look to better-natured exchanges for the future. I will however respond to posts about movies and pizza!
Edited by R Harkness - 6/13/12 at 7:41pm