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The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

No, I have the 103, but if HDMI 2 on the Oppo works I will just use this as I use Source Direct to a Lumagen prosessor and go around the problem. But I will report this to Oppo as well so they can fix the problem, as this is clearly a Oppo problem.

HDMI2 works fine, but then you don't have the dedicated video processor. Not sure what we would be missing using HDMI2 as opposed to 1. I am no expert, but maybe the Yamaha can do the stuff HDMI1 would.
Edited by SleepyKat - 1/28/13 at 5:25pm
post #302 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I got an answer from Oppo and I will post it here. And it is not a Oppo issue.

I asked:

HI!

I have a 103EU and aI have a problem with this in the combination with a Yamaha RX-A3020. When I use HDMI 1 on the Oppo the Yamaha starts in analog in every HDMI input. If I use HDMI 2 on the Oppo the problem is gone, do you have a solution to this?

Regards
Andreas


This is what Oppo answered:

This is an issue that was introduced in the Yamaha 1.64 firmware. We have a Yamaha RX-A820 which worked perfectly with the initial 1.22 firmware, but the subsequent firmware release has rendered the HDMI 1 output of the player useless on this receiver. We are hopping to compensate for Yamaha's failures through a future firmware release, but we do not know when this may occur.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

Lol at the reply. Cocky folks down there in mountain view.
post #303 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyKat View Post

HDMI2 works fine, but then you don't have the dedicated video processor. Not sure what we would be missing using HDMI2 as opposed to 1. I am no expert, but maybe the Yamaha can do the stuff HDMI1 would.

I know, but I have a Lumagen XS prosessor so I don´t use the prosessor in the Oppo so for me it is not a problem. But Yamaha and Oppo have to solve this problem together.
post #304 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I know, but I have a Lumagen XS prosessor so I don´t use the prosessor in the Oppo so for me it is not a problem. But Yamaha and Oppo have to solve this problem together.

+1
post #305 of 1657
Sounds like you need to keep pushing both Yamaha and Oppo for a fix. The fact that a Yamaha firmware update broke something does make it sound like a Yamaha issue, but then Yamaha will say they have no problem with other players and blame Oppo!

That's the problem with HDMI, a handshake involves all the devices in the chain, and if any of them does something a bit non-standard it can fail. But Oppo's HDMI 1 output with the extra video processor in the path is more likely to cause problems, so they may not be blameless.
post #306 of 1657
I could not reproduce what OPPO did since their setup is with an A820 and the 3020 doesn't share the same firmwares. However I did try two different FWs on the 3020 (1.10 and 1.41) and none would work. OPPO is honest enough to acknowledge the problem whereas Yamaha says "we haven't heard of the problem and I don't see a bulletin".
post #307 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by docdar View Post

Just went to Best Buy. They have a A3020 open box. They are willing to sell it to me for $1,050. Problem is I don't really need this much of a receiver. Too good to pass up??? He's holding it for me.
If it's still there, for that price, JUMP! Doubt it's still there, though.
post #308 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by theabs View Post

If it's still there, for that price, JUMP! Doubt it's still there, though.

If it is at BB in Pembroke Pines, JUMP JUMP! It was mine and has only 2 weeks on it. Not a single scratch, has all docs and accessories. It could be sold as brand new. It was an exchange due to the OPPO/YAMAHA issue (had to try everything).
post #309 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyKat View Post

If it is at BB in Pembroke Pines, JUMP JUMP! It was mine and has only 2 weeks on it. Not a single scratch, has all docs and accessories. It could be sold as brand new. It was an exchange due to the OPPO/YAMAHA issue (had to try everything).

It was the one in Pembroke Pines and I bought it that day. Thanks for the info on the units history. I don't have an Oppo, so not an issue for me (yet). I'm unfortunately stuck in the upgrade cycle as my speakers aren't holding up there end. Maybe you could open a couple more boxes for me.
post #310 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by docdar View Post

It was the one in Pembroke Pines and I bought it that day. Thanks for the info on the units history. I don't have an Oppo, so not an issue for me (yet). I'm unfortunately stuck in the upgrade cycle as my speakers aren't holding up there end. Maybe you could open a couple more boxes for me.

Lucky you. Let me know if there is anything missing. I might have some of the things here just in case I forgot to put in the box.
Damn! I should have bought it. smile.gif
post #311 of 1657
Hi,

Does anyone know how to correct the volume on the 3020 when watching tv? I get spikes in volume that occur when going from 5.1 to prologic 2 and I cannot seem to fix this no matter what I try. Am I missing something? Some kind of volume leveler?

Thanks,
post #312 of 1657
There's no volume levelling feature. You can limit the dynamic range (see ADAPTIVE DRC), which might help, but it's not the same thing.

General variability of volume from channel to channel is a big problem with TV. Dolby Volume would probably be the solution, but Yamaha have chosen not to license the latest Dolby technologies. In fact they are now missing several new things from Dolby and DTS that other brands have.
post #313 of 1657
Ya I see that, I am starting to regret my purchase here. I should have maybe went elsewhere. I am not happy with the missing features that should be expected from a receiver this expensive.
post #314 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUDAH77 View Post

Ya I see that, I am starting to regret my purchase here. I should have maybe went elsewhere. I am not happy with the missing features that should be expected from a receiver this expensive.

Have you tried Adaptive DRC? I find it to be very effective for balancing program material and commercials. I even prefer it over Audyssey Dynamic Volume which was too boomy for me on 2 pre-pros I used to own, and I could still perceive a volume spike whith ADV when transitioning to commercials, but not so much with ADRC
post #315 of 1657
If your interested in selling your 3020 please let me know. Currently have a onkyo tx-nr3007 which will be for sale when it gets back from warranty repairs.
post #316 of 1657
Yes,

I use DRC but its still terrible at the volume balancing, at least in my eyes. I am not very happy with it right now. Thats my only real big issue. I will not be selling it yet,lol. Thanks
post #317 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidabi View Post

Hi all!

I just received my new rx-a1020 amplifier and I have a few questions.

1. If you have acoustic panels for room dampening, do I need to run YPAO? Does it really make any difference?
2. If I should run the YPAO, in which order should I do that? First YPAO, then sound level for each speaker and last subwoofer frequency response with behringer DCX2496?
3. Can someone who owns 2020/3020 amp, take a picture from the YPAO microphone? The microphone which came with the package looks so weak that made me wonder, is it better to hook better mic to make the YPAO adjustment instead the one that came with the package?
4. I read that this has ECO mode which reduces power consumption 20%, but does it affect music listening when trying to crank it up... or other functions?
Not a single answer? Nobody knows?

Yet I have one more for you.

How do you disable the way too bright pure direct blue led in the front panel?
post #318 of 1657
If the pure direct blue LED is too bright you'll have to stick something over it (black electrical tape works well). For the other questions:

1. There's less for YPAO to do in a treated room, but you might as well run it anyway. It will set speaker levels and distances which has to be done. After that you can compare the results for the different YPAO EQ modes (Flat, Natural, Front) to EQ off (Through), and use the one you prefer. Then you can adjust the EQ manually from that starting point if you need to.

2. YPAO sets the speaker levels, so adjusting the levels before YPAO will have no effect. If you need to adjust the levels manually you do it after running YPAO. The 1020 doesn't apply any sub EQ, but I would use the Behringer last anyway. (Even on the 2020/3020 which can EQ the sub, they are not very precise and may only make things worse if you've already done a good manual job with the Behringer, so use the Behringer last.)

3. The YPAO mic might not be very good (e.g. not very linear), but the YPAO software knows its expected frequency response and corrects for it. So do not use a different mic.

4. I don't know what ECO mode does, but I would not use it personally.
post #319 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidabi View Post

How do you disable the way too bright pure direct blue led in the front panel?

LIGHTDIMS (link) claims to be the answer to that problem...?! cool.gif
_
post #320 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Sounds like you need to keep pushing both Yamaha and Oppo for a fix. The fact that a Yamaha firmware update broke something does make it sound like a Yamaha issue, but then Yamaha will say they have no problem with other players and blame Oppo!

That's the problem with HDMI, a handshake involves all the devices in the chain, and if any of them does something a bit non-standard it can fail. But Oppo's HDMI 1 output with the extra video processor in the path is more likely to cause problems, so they may not be blameless.

I am experiencing a problem between my BDP-103 and my Yamaha RX-A820 receiver and I don't know if it is the same poroblem as described here. (??)

When starting to play a movie, the Yamaha has no problem in detecting the video format so the picture is always displayed just fine, however sometimes the Yamaha does not detect the audio format, and therefore the audio is muted. In order to work around this, I have to switch the Yamaha over to another HDMI input, and then back to the HDMI where the Oppo is connected to.

I suppose that the problem is either a) that the Oppo is not properly sending the information about the audio format, and/or b) the Yamaha is not able to understand the information; and in the absence of knowing what the audio format is, the receiver mutes its audio entirely.

This sounds like the kind of thing that could be an interworking bug between the two devices. Is it something I should report to Oppo's R&D department? Or to Yamaha's R&D department? Or alternatively are there some settiongs that I could change on one or other device to eliminate the problem?
post #321 of 1657
I reported to Yamaha and Oppo. I think you should do the same. The more people complain about this, the better chances we have to have a fix.
post #322 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If the pure direct blue LED is too bright you'll have to stick something over it (black electrical tape works well). For the other questions:

1. There's less for YPAO to do in a treated room, but you might as well run it anyway. It will set speaker levels and distances which has to be done. After that you can compare the results for the different YPAO EQ modes (Flat, Natural, Front) to EQ off (Through), and use the one you prefer. Then you can adjust the EQ manually from that starting point if you need to.

2. YPAO sets the speaker levels, so adjusting the levels before YPAO will have no effect. If you need to adjust the levels manually you do it after running YPAO. The 1020 doesn't apply any sub EQ, but I would use the Behringer last anyway. (Even on the 2020/3020 which can EQ the sub, they are not very precise and may only make things worse if you've already done a good manual job with the Behringer, so use the Behringer last.)

3. The YPAO mic might not be very good (e.g. not very linear), but the YPAO software knows its expected frequency response and corrects for it. So do not use a different mic.

4. I don't know what ECO mode does, but I would not use it personally.

Very informative, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

LIGHTDIMS (link) claims to be the answer to that problem...?! cool.gif
_
Yes it does. smile.gif
post #323 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUDAH77 View Post

Yes,

I use DRC but its still terrible at the volume balancing, at least in my eyes. I am not very happy with it right now. Thats my only real big issue. I will not be selling it yet,lol. Thanks

Are you sure you're using Adaptive DRC and not the DRC option in Setup > Sound? There's a difference. ADRC is Yamaha's DRC, and the other one is Dolby.
post #324 of 1657
Newegg has the RX-A2020 back in stock with the promotional gift card this weekend. Just purchased mine a few minutes ago.
post #325 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyKat View Post

I reported to Yamaha and Oppo. I think you should do the same. The more people complain about this, the better chances we have to have a fix.

I reported it to Opp, and this is what they said:
Quote:
Based on our own testing with a Yamaha RX-A820 these errors are related to the firmware in the Yamaha. We had bought one of these receivers for compatibility testing and initially had no issues with the player and the receiver with the 1.22 Firmware. Once we upgraded the firmware to the 1.64 release we experience similar errors.

You will want to connect HDMI 1 direct to the television for video and HDMI 2 direct to the receiver for audio. This will resolve your errors.

In the future these issues may be resolved through Yamaha firmware, though it may be possible that we resolve it in our own firmware by compensating for the error introduced in Yamaha's firmware.

My problem is that until 2 weeks ago, I had a Sony DA2400ES receiver which did not have pass-through of 3D signals on its HDMI ports; so I had already tried using the configuration that Oppo proposes above (HDMI 1 to the TV, HDMI 2 to the receiver). But then there was a triangle of HDMI connections Oppo => receiver / Oppo => Tv / receiver <=> Tv, and the HDMI CEC signals were fighting each other, so when I turned on the Oppo, the Tv would select the signal on the Oppo's HDMI 1, and then the receiver would select the signal on the Oppo's HDMI 2, which told the Tv to select the receiver's HDMI output, and thus the less good video signal on the Oppo's HDMI 2 was being routed to the Tv. Every time I stopped and restarted playing, the Tv & receiver were selecting all the wrong inputs. I tried disabling HDMI CEC on the Oppo's HDMI 2 which meant I could control the Oppo from the Tv's remote, but then receiver had to have its channel selected manually, which then told the Tv to select its HDMI output, etc. I also tried setting the Oppo's HDMI CEC to "limited", but that did not give me the control that I expect. For me, the only solution was to totally disable HDMI CEC on everything, and then I had to manually mess around with all three device's remote controls (in a certain exact sequence) to set things up. This was a total PITA, and my partner could not understand it at all! - I need to have one button control from one remote.

So I decided to replace the Sony receiver, and I bought the Yamaha in the expectation that it would solve the 3D pass-through issue, and the HDMI CEC issue. - Which it does. But now there is this new issue with negotiating the audio format. And so again I have to manually mess around with the three remote controls (in a certain exact sequence) to set things up, and it is still not one button control from one remote. So buying the new Yamaha does NOT solve anything for me at all. Not even in the configuration that Oppo proposes...

This means that for me the Yamaha is not fit for purpose, and I shall have to return it to the dealer; and I expect he will be highly resistant to taking it back; particularly since the unit is not physically broken, and Yamaha are not saying (nor Oppo) whether the firmware issue is likely to be resolved, or when.

What do you think? Has Yamaha acknowledged in any way that they are aware of the issue, do they have a track record of taking such issues seriously, and are the likely to fix this one, and how soon, etc. Otherwise, I would appreciate any arguments to help me convince the Yamaha dealer to take the unit back.

Furthermore when I do take the Yamaha back, I want to be absolutely sure that whatever other receiver that I buy instead, shall not have the same, or other, interworking issues with the Oppo. Therefore I would appreciate any recommendations on which receiver, one that has been actually tested, you suggest I should buy: one that a) supports 3D pass-through with the Oppo, b) supports full HDMI one button CEC with the Oppo, c) supports proper audio and video format negotiation with the Oppo, d) sounds as good as (or better than) the Yamaha, and e) is not vastly more expensive than the Yamaha.
post #326 of 1657
Yamaha are pretty good about fixing bugs, but first they have to be convinced it really is a bug on their side. That's the hard part, so at this point I wouldn't count on a fix.

In most cases you're better off disabling HDMI CEC in all devices, because it causes a lot of problems. Then buy a programmable remote that will give you a single button to turn on all devices.
post #327 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yamaha are pretty good about fixing bugs, but first they have to be convinced it really is a bug on their side. That's the hard part, so at this point I wouldn't count on a fix.

Do you have any suggestions about who to contact at Yamaha (e-mail address) and how to get the message across? Their web site routes you first through their FAQ, and then through their dealers, and obviously neither of these is going to help in any way with such an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

In most cases you're better off disabling HDMI CEC in all devices, because it causes a lot of problems. Then buy a programmable remote that will give you a single button to turn on all devices.

So, if it does not work, then please tell me why did these guys invent the HDMI CEC Interworking Standard (so called) and implement it in, and advertise it as a great feature of, all their products? (Ok, this is a rhetorical question: I don't really expect to get a meaningful answer...)
post #328 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

So, if it does not work, then please tell me why did these guys invent the HDMI CEC Interworking Standard (so called) and implement it in, and advertise it as a great feature of, all their products? (Ok, this is a rhetorical question: I don't really expect to get a meaningful answer...)

HDMI CEC was actually based on SCART's AV.Link and by and large companies don't do much to promote this feature in their products. They often make up their own trademarked names for CEC, suggesting that it only works with their own devices.
post #329 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsamples View Post

Newegg has the RX-A2020 back in stock with the promotional gift card this weekend. Just purchased mine a few minutes ago.

How does one get that promotional gift card?
post #330 of 1657
Just purchase the receiver before midnight tonight and you will get the gift card in e-mail. They have run that special the past three weekends.
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