Originally Posted by Louis Bartay
Is everyone from The Outback so RUDE? It's Ok to have a different opinion but you sir have poor manners. On another thread you TOLD me You don't care what Paul Kipsch had to say... like you were schooling me and you were smarter then him and Me. Most of us here are grown Men and act like it. Do try to express your self in a more polite manner and some of your comments will be taken better. You come as a KNOW IT ALL on about every post I have seen from you.
I call it as it see it; if you don't like that, I don't care. I was not intentionally rude, I just expect that 'grown men' who have been on the internet for more than a day to understand that most communication that would be expressed in person is not conveyed via keyboard and I don't see the need to spoon feed 'grown men' as such in case their feelings get hurt. The impression we seem to be fed about people from the Lone Star State is that they are not little preciouses - seems that was wrong.
It is ironic that you use the term Outback, I assume as some sort of snide pejorative, but the two guys who deloped what became an extremely accurate method for modelling and defining speaker parameters are fellow Outbackians - Thiele and Small
, in the 70's. Early this century, another Outbackian made one of the greatest ongoing advantages to horn design with his software Hornresp
As for your original claim of 102dB1W/1m for the Cornwalls, you "bought new in 1979", seems the Klipsch site
disagrees with you too. Sensitivty 98.5dB.
T/S derived sensitivity: 96.6dB/W/m
The later Cornwall II
uses a different bass driver, the K43E (typo in the Klipsch page) and claims sensitivity of 101dB/W/m +/- 5dB.
T/S derived sensitivity: 96.3dB.
Physics overrules advertising. If Paul Klipsch was discussing it here, I would ask how he had achieved what physics (known since the early 70's) says it cannot. And I would ask that bluntly. This is fairly basic well understood EE theory, and without a cogent answer he would be in line to get one of his own buttons. Having actually measured some of the drivers, and the ones in my Heresys and the T/S not backing up the claims, it's a fair enough question to ask an engineer
, and get a straight answer on.
What they claim is not possible with the specs of the driver, but it is not the first time
they have done it.Klipsch RB81Klipsch RB81 -II
Note in the specs tab: SENSITIVITY: 97dB @ 2.83V / 1m
I included both as I was unsure which version was tested.RB81 Independently measured.
Note: All passive loudspeakers were measured with grilles at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input and scaled for display purposes.
The difference is 5-6dB, as much as a 4x
difference in power required for a given SPL between what is advertised, and what is measured. As Klipsch speakers are often promoted (at least colloquially) as being suitable for the user of small tube amps because of their high sensitivity, and when they are actually not anywhere near as sensitive as advertised, the (no technical) buyer is not going to get what they thought. That deserves comment, and as Bill F mentioned in the other thread, I'm sure he would have put it to right. but as he's gone, he's not actually running it any more.
I'm snipping this out for further comment.
Originally Posted by Louis Bartay
You don't care what Paul Kipsch had to say... like you were schooling me and you were smarter then him and Me
First of all, it is the Klipsch company now, not PWK who is posting this information and when your model was released, it was difficult to measure sensitivity well, and hard to define from driver specs as it was pre T/S. In some regards I probably do know more than him, because a lot has happened in the decade since he has died, and in the years before then when he was less involved in engineering. The physics and engineering aspects were well developed back then, but far less easily available than today, and now we have massively more powerful modelling, development and measurement tools than even when PWK died, let alone when he began. I always viewed PWK as an engineer whom I respected, not someone to be idolised as many 'philes do (and to others as well). I have all of the Dope From Hope (at least I think I do) and have owned Khorn, LaScala, Hersey and KPT250, listened to, measured and modified them, so I have a far greater depth of knowledge of the units than someone who has just used them and as such I have the right to comment when I see an anomaly.
In the end, I think you just got your knickers in a knot because I dared sully the claims made about your
speaker, with evidence, and by connection someone you look up to, when the latter is certainly not correct.