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DQ77KB Thin Mini-ITX - Page 2

post #31 of 121

It's actually cheaper here http://www.shopblt.com/item/intel-i7-3770t-tray-processor-3.70ghz/intel_cm8063701212200s.html

That's where I ordered mine, it's supposed to ship to me in the next week or so. Out of curiosity I checked out that sabrepc.com link, and their checkout page was insecure (chrome told me), they charged tax to ship to NY, even though they are located in CA, and their shipping was pretty expensive. For ground to NY it would have costed me $345
post #32 of 121
ilovejedd: did that PSU that you linked actually work with the board, or have you received it yet?
post #33 of 121
Thread Starter 
Haven't built it yet. There was a sale on the Samsung 830 256GB so bought one and will be using it in lieu of the Crucial m4 512GB (which I'll probably use on the laptop). Will probably build the rig Thursday.
post #34 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristleconer View Post

Final note, the PCI-e 3.0 socket is only four lanes. I wanted to pipe this to an ExpressCard socket on the back panel, but ExpressCard is only one lane. So stick with Intel graphics onboard and abandon the PCI-e 3.0 or find a compatible card that will fit in the case you have to use.

Mini-Box also has an mPCIe to ExressCard adapter that is designed to work with the DN2800MT; it looks like the I/O shields for the DQ77KB and DH61AG also have the punchout for this adapter over the HDMI and DP ports: http://www.mini-box.com/ExpressCardAdapter Of course, this requires the full-height ATX I/O shield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

I also have the DH61AG. One drawback is that it only has 4 USB ports in the back. DQ77KB seems to be the same. My case does have two more ports out the front but 6 ports is not enough for modern desktops. Here is what I have connected to my DH61AG:
KB
Mouse
Scanner
Backup HDD
Camera cradle
WiFi dongle
Bluetooth
iPhone cable
So I have to go for an external hub. While the board is neat but cables are unsightly.

You could use an Intel INT-6230 mPCIe WiFi+BT card, wireless mouse+kb combo, and eSATA external drive if preferred. Probably not worth the cost, just sayin'.
post #35 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandersjds View Post

ilovejedd: did that PSU that you linked actually work with the board, or have you received it yet?

It'll work, assuming Intel didn't do something really weird and use a different connector than the DH61AG; they should both need a 7.4 x 5.1 x0.6 x 12mm barrel connector
post #36 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post

It'll work, assuming Intel didn't do something really weird and use a different connector than the DH61AG; they should both need a 7.4 x 5.1 x0.6 x 12mm barrel connector

Given Intel is trying to push slim Mini-ITX as a standard, I don't think they'll do anything funky in terms of compatibility.
post #37 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post

Mini-Box also has an mPCIe to ExressCard adapter that is designed to work with the DN2800MT; it looks like the I/O shields for the DQ77KB and DH61AG also have the punchout for this adapter over the HDMI and DP ports: http://www.mini-box.com/ExpressCardAdapter Of course, this requires the full-height ATX I/O shield.
You could use an Intel INT-6230 mPCIe WiFi+BT card, wireless mouse+kb combo, and eSATA external drive if preferred. Probably not worth the cost, just sayin'.

Sure, I like those Apple looking KB and have a nice Microsoft laser mouse. Of course the external USB HDD for backup is a few years old. That PCIe adapter is a nice find. I was wondering what that cut out is for.
post #38 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

... That PCIe adapter is a nice find. I was wondering what that cut out is for.

I was wondering what the cutouts were for too. From the looks of the http://www.mini-box.com/ExpressCardAdapter linked above, it wouldn't work on the DQ77KB. The mini-PCIe connector is the wrong orientation (it runs parallel to the PCIe connector on the DQ77KB).
post #39 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Given Intel is trying to push slim Mini-ITX as a standard, I don't think they'll do anything funky in terms of compatibility.

I want you to be right about this, but this is why I asked:

http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dq77kb/sb/CS-033495.htm
DQ77KB_TechProdSpec01.pdf (page 63)
2.2.3.3 Power Supply Connectors
The board supports wide-range voltage input by either of the following power supply types:
• External Power Supply – the board can be powered with an 8 - 19 VDC external power supply though the DC jack on the back panel. This connector accepts dual-barrel plugs with an inner diameter (ID) of 2.5 mm and an outer diameter (OD) of 5.5 mm, where the inner contact is +8 (±10%) through +19 (±10%) VDC and the shell is GND. The maximum current rating for this connector is 8 A.
• Internal Power Supply – the board can alternatively be powered via the internal 1 x 2 power connector, where pin 1 is GND and pin 2 is +8 (±10%) through +19 (±10%) VDC. The maximum current rating for this connector is 10 A.


http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dh61ag/sb/CS-032443.htm
DH61AG_TechProdSpec05.pdf (page 60)
2.2.3.3 Power Supply Connectors
The board has the following power supply connectors:
• External Power Supply – the board can be powered through a 19 V DC connector on the backpanel. The backpanel DC connector is compatible with a 7.4 mm/OD (outer diameter) and 5.1 mm/ID (inner diameter) plug, where the inner contact is +19 (±10%) V DC and the shell is GND. The maximum current rating is 12 A.
• Internal Power Supply – the board can alternatively be powered via the internal 19 V DC 1 x 2 power connector, where pin 1 is GND and pin 2 is +19 (±10%) VDC.


I actually tried to ask Intel about this, but the guy I spoke with was worse than useless and sent me to a HQL for ATX power supplies.
post #40 of 121
So for those of you who are actually running a DQ77KB today, what power supply/adapter are you using with it?
post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post

It'll work, assuming Intel didn't do something really weird and use a different connector than the DH61AG; they should both need a 7.4 x 5.1 x0.6 x 12mm barrel connector

I bought a STD-19084 160W 19V adapter from mitxpc. This web store is actually located in the Bay Area and I just drove to their office. They carry many items for ITX setups such as special I/O plate for DN2800MT.

I also tried it with a Kensington 120W Model 33197 travel charger with a N19 tip for Dell laptop. This setup runs at 20V which should be ok for +5%. But this adapter consumes about 6W with the DH61AG computer on S3 standby, which is poor. Should be around 1.5W. A real Dell adapter should be better.

There is an internal 2 pin power jack on the MB and I got a Lenovo fanless 19V switching power supply FRU: 71Y8204 to try. Just need to attach the correct 2 pin output connector.
Edited by dksc318 - 7/3/12 at 10:50am
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So for those of you who are actually running a DQ77KB today, what power supply/adapter are you using with it?

I have a few different ones for Dell and HP laptops, stuff I came across at work. Some lower power ones, and a huge 200w one.
post #43 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I have a few different ones for Dell and HP laptops, stuff I came across at work. Some lower power ones, and a huge 200w one.

Got any part numbers?
post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandersjds View Post

Got any part numbers?

Dell (Delta) DA210PE1 210W

Dell (Delta) J211H 230W came w/ my Alienware M17R3

Dell J62H3 90W This powers up my DQ77KB w/ an i3-2120T, mSATA SSD, 16GB ram, 140MM fan, and 3 x 3.5" sata HD's (4th one causes it to power down at boot when HD's spool up).edit: I just realized the ancient seagate ST3250823A 250GB drives I was using to test use like 2x the power of my samsung 2TB F4's... so I should be fine with this adapter when I swap out the drives. These seagates use like 34 watts each at startup http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/cuda_72008_pm.pdf

HP HSTNN-LA25 120W came w/ my HP Envy 15 3rd gen
Edited by Diverge - 7/11/12 at 7:18am
post #45 of 121
Are the Dell PSUs 19V or 20V?f
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

Dell J62H3 90W This powers up my DQ77KB w/ an i3-2120T, mSATA SSD, 16GB ram, 140MM fan, and 3 x 3.5" sata HD's (4th one causes it to power down at boot when HD's spool up).

According to that Amazon seller, that PSU has a plug that would fit the DH61AG, but not the DQ77KB (7.4mm outer/5.0mm inner). Assuming Intel's documentation is accurate and the seller is accurate, of course. It looks like other generic PSU replacements for this are 19.5V.

300

Yeesh. Thanks for the part numbers, tho. It's a good start.
post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

Are the Dell PSUs 19V or 20V?f

All the ones I listed above are 19.5V
post #48 of 121
Those also look like they've got 7.4mm/5.0mm plugs. Does this mean that the Intel doc is wrong?
post #49 of 121
There are two power connectors used:
DH61AG, 7.4mm/5.1mm, 19V
DQ77KB/DN2800MT, 5.5mm/2.5mm, 8V-19V
post #50 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

There are two power connectors used:
DH61AG, 7.4mm/5.1mm, 19V
DQ77KB/DN2800MT, 5.5mm/2.5mm, 8V-19V

I think Intel just copy pasted the wrong info on the DQ77KB specifications.
post #51 of 121
I'm not sure about the Intel specs. But I have both those boards, and all the power bricks I listed above, and they all work with one another.
post #52 of 121
About the external power supply, I think the DC external connector is the same as for the DH61AG because this is the next-in-line upgrade for Intel's only thin mini-ITX. The 2.5 ID/ 5.5 OD specs for the plug might be a misprint/mistake by Intel; I have the same specs in some notes I got from pre-introduction gossip but the best source for accurate information from Intel is any document that does not have pictures of people in it (i.e, technical documents). I have not called Intel Help on this because when I called to notice that some of the spec sheets they had online listed the DQ77KB as using 240-pin DDR3 when it is obvious the board uses 204-pin SODIMM, I spent 30 minutes gettings nods and thank you's but none of the incorrect documents have been changed. For the right plug, check with Mini-box.com or atechfrabrication.com.

I noticed some problems I had with what I thought was a dream thin-mini-ITX, the DQ77KB in an earlier message in this thread. Here are some more notes:

1. The audio codec is ALC-892. The signal to noise for this codec is about 90dB for output. That's not great, and wouldn't replace very many soundcard options. So if you want great sound quality and want to use a DQ77KB, think about using a soundcard, and there goes the PCI-e 3.0 slot (remember, it is just four lanes of 3.0). The DH77DF board from Intel has the 898 codec and bring the signal to noise up to 110dB--that's a real challenge to most available sound cards. The DH77DF is a mini-ITX but stands about an inch higher than the DQ77KB.

2. The only third-generation i7 processor you can use with the DQ77KB, according to Intel, is the 3770s. You can't use the k (unlocked) or the t (low-power) versions. This means you can't change the CPU or memory clock with a DQ77KB (except possibly reducing the native speed of the processor in the BIOS to control temperature).

3. The paradox is: why have 3rd generation processors that are supposed to save energy but can't use low-voltage memory? The solution is: use low voltage-rated memory (DDR3U- DDR3 L1.25- 1.35V) but use the higher (1.5) voltage required for the 3rd generation processors for over-clocking the memory. The problem is, you can't change the clocks on the XXXXs processors that are required for the DQ77KB.

My question to the readers is: can you use the 3770K in the DQ77KB, not at 77W TDP but 65W TDP by underclocking it? Maybe Intel does not list the 3770K as compatible with the DQ77KB because if you let it fly at 77W it would destroy the board, but in more careful hands... Let me know if anyone has tried it and thanks.
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristleconer View Post

1. The audio codec is ALC-892. The signal to noise for this codec is about 90dB for output. That's not great, and wouldn't replace very many soundcard options. So if you want great sound quality and want to use a DQ77KB, think about using a soundcard, and there goes the PCI-e 3.0 slot (remember, it is just four lanes of 3.0). The DH77DF board from Intel has the 898 codec and bring the signal to noise up to 110dB--that's a real challenge to most available sound cards. The DH77DF is a mini-ITX but stands about an inch higher than the DQ77KB.

That only maters if you're using the analog outputs, which being only stereo, are not going to be much use to people here. I'd suspect most here would be using HDMI for audio.
Quote:
2. The only third-generation i7 processor you can use with the DQ77KB, according to Intel, is the 3770s. You can't use the k (unlocked) or the t (low-power) versions. This means you can't change the CPU or memory clock with a DQ77KB (except possibly reducing the native speed of the processor in the BIOS to control temperature).

Not sure why that matters, who's going to overclock a 3770S in one of these? I mean the 3770S is way overkill for this sort of system to begin with (speaking as someone who just built one of these with a 3770S).
post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Given Intel is trying to push slim Mini-ITX as a standard, I don't think they'll do anything funky in terms of compatibility.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I was wondering what the cutouts were for too. From the looks of the http://www.mini-box.com/ExpressCardAdapter linked above, it wouldn't work on the DQ77KB. The mini-PCIe connector is the wrong orientation (it runs parallel to the PCIe connector on the DQ77KB).
There's a second mPCIe slot above the HDMI and DP ports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

I think Intel just copy pasted the wrong info on the DQ77KB specifications.
I think you're right. There's no way that size power connector would handle enough juice for the 65/77w CPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristleconer View Post

2. The only third-generation i7 processor you can use with the DQ77KB, according to Intel, is the 3770s. You can't use the k (unlocked) or the t (low-power) versions. This means you can't change the CPU or memory clock with a DQ77KB (except possibly reducing the native speed of the processor in the BIOS to control temperature).
Not sure why that matters, who's going to overclock a 3770S in one of these? I mean the 3770S is way overkill for this sort of system to begin with (speaking as someone who just built one of these with a 3770S).

That doesn't make much sense, especially when you consider that Intel is pushing Thin Mini-ITX for AIO systems, where thermal management is a big concern. They should definitely be able to use the T-series CPUs. We're waiting on an ETA for the i5-3470T from the distributor. As soon as we get one in, I'll get this tested.
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post


There's a second mPCIe slot above the HDMI and DP ports.

True, but that's also the mSATA slot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post

I think you're right. There's no way that size power connector would handle enough juice for the 65/77w CPUs.
That doesn't make much sense, especially when you consider that Intel is pushing Thin Mini-ITX for AIO systems, where thermal management is a big concern. They should definitely be able to use the T-series CPUs. We're waiting on an ETA for the i5-3470T from the distributor. As soon as we get one in, I'll get this tested.

I'll be trying the i7-3770T on this board, as soon as my order ships. I see no reason why it shouldn't work - even if it hasn't been officially tested/listed in Intel's specs. It's just a lower clocked, lower voltage binned 3770/s. If it doesn't work, then I'll replace the 2500K in my desktop.
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneloc427 View Post

...
I think you're right. There's no way that size power connector would handle enough juice for the 65/77w CPUs.
....
I think they added the 65W CPU support late. Then the 8V-19V @ 8A power connector would not support 65W CPU option. So they changed to the 19V only connector but the smaller connector got left in technical literature.
post #57 of 121
which cases have you used successfully? The antec 110 Vesa fits the board but also includes a power supply (which is redundant if you get the compatible power brick)
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by karos View Post

which cases have you used successfully? The antec 110 Vesa fits the board but also includes a power supply (which is redundant if you get the compatible power brick)

I used 2 different Lian Li case in my little projects to take advantage of the thin-itx form factor:

My Lian Li PCQ16
My Lian Li PCQ05

edit: Also, my i7-3770T shipped today. So I'll know shortly if it works in this board or not.
Edited by Diverge - 7/30/12 at 1:04pm
post #59 of 121
i7-3700T plus DQ77KB is a lot of power for a media server. This is also your desktop machine?
post #60 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

I think they added the 65W CPU support late. Then the 8V-19V @ 8A power connector would not support 65W CPU option. So they changed to the 19V only connector but the smaller connector got left in technical literature.

Nah. I think support for 65W CPU was planned from the outset. Not supporting 65W TDP processors means only dual-core/quad-core T SKU's or the single-core Celeron G440 would be officially supported. Way too limited when even the DH61AG supported 65W TDP processors. In this case, I think it was a genuine copy-paste error (I'm guessing from DN2800MT literature).

Just finished putting mine together and the DH61AG-compatible 19V/8.A AC/DC adapter from Mini-Box also works with the DQ77KB. Currently in the process of installing Windows.
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