or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › PANASONIC PT-RZ470 FULL HD LED LASER
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PANASONIC PT-RZ470 FULL HD LED LASER - Page 9

post #241 of 286
Cinema Contour is really the name of the frame and fixed screen model. Not the fabric, which is what will make the difference.

I would give Mike at AVS here a call and start from scratch discussing your needs. You should completely disregard the "up to 300". Half of that size, maybe a little more depending on real world useable calibrated lumens, is more reasonable as a max size for this unit, as well as most projectors in the under $30k price range.
post #242 of 286
I already bought the projector and its on its way, so the decision on whether or not to go with this projector is made. One of the big selling points for me was the low heat production and low maintenance. I work from home so I plan on using this to do remote presentations as well although screen purchases etc will be 100% focused on movie watching since I don't want to spend my hard earned cash to support my employer smile.gif

I'm pulling 23AWG CAT6A cable throughout the house and I'm thinking I'll pull at least 3 runs to the projector mounting position from the equipment closet. Using "whatever"-over-Ethernet tech I can then hook up to the HDMI, DVI-D and RJ45 port. What I don't get is why you can buy a HDBaseT set for +- 200$ while Panasonic's PJLink box which also simply uses HDBaseT costs a fortune in comparison at over 1k. That doesn't add up for me. Does anyone know why that box is so expensive?

"Each new model will feature a Digital Link connection. Based on Valens HDBaseT™ technology, Panasonic’s Digital Link is embedded in the PT-RZ470 and PT-RZ370 Series"

The Panasonic box "ET-YFB100":
http://svconline.com/cables/features/inside_the_hdbaset_standard_part_2//index1.html

They mention that compatibility is the biggest issue not the hardware. So I'm assuming that with software updates the built-in HDBaseT of the projector should become more compatible negating the need for Panasonic's overpriced box, or am I overlooking something? At over a thousand bucks its way more expensive then other HDBaseT solutions you can buy on for example Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-HDBaseT-Ethernet-Extender/dp/B005H4Y6TA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375222123&sr=8-1&keywords=hdbase-t

Thoughts?
post #243 of 286
Does it say the HDbase-T wont work with others units?

I would still use HDMI in the short term and plan for that... as its the most widespread.

For screen size, I would still give Mike a call and discuss your needs. There are a lot of variables having to do with your room size, ambient light, seating distance, where you want the speakers placed, where you will need to place the projector, etc..... Mike can help a lot and AVS sells many brands of screens, including DaLite that you looked at on youtube.
post #244 of 286
I would like to see a good review.
post #245 of 286
post #246 of 286

Thanks.

Is a very nice project! I hope they release a HT/HC-mind release soon!
post #247 of 286
Hi Kraine thanks for that. All this time I didnt know there was a review other than the one in this thread out there. Of course one says 1500 calibrated lumens and yours says 755 frown.gif. I would imagine the lower is more accurate. Still, a very nice unit from the sound of it.

Am I correct that you did not use any kind of outboard processor like a Radiance for calibration? I assume that when using that there is no reason the colors / grayscal / gamma could not be spot on?

Did you notice any rainbow effects at all?
post #248 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Hi Kraine thanks for that. All this time I didnt know there was a review other than the one in this thread out there. Of course one says 1500 calibrated lumens and yours says 755 frown.gif. I would imagine the lower is more accurate. Still, a very nice unit from the sound of it.

Am I correct that you did not use any kind of outboard processor like a Radiance for calibration? I assume that when using that there is no reason the colors / grayscal / gamma could not be spot on?

Did you notice any rainbow effects at all?

Yeah, the 755 lumens, puts it in line with some of the current higher end HT LED projectors. Nice amount of output for an LED, but not going to light up a huge screen unless you have a lot of gain.
Reply
Reply
post #249 of 286
Kraine, any semi useable settings/mode in the 1100-1500 lumen range on this thing?
post #250 of 286
I'm not rainbow effect sensitive so I'm not able to answer and I had wrote a dedicated topic regarding this review here :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1469444/panasonic-rz470-full-hd-dlp-laser-led-hybrid-official-owner-thread



And yes I didn't use a scaler to work on the colors, I had only use the internal tools from the RZ470.
post #251 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Kraine, any semi useable settings/mode in the 1100-1500 lumen range on this thing?

Not with my unit,. To get more lumens you will get in the same time too much green. frown.gif
post #252 of 286
Is it possible that the modes you had to put it in to get reasonably accurate colors actually cut brightness too much, and that leaving it in a wide gamut torch mode and then dialing it down with a Radiance would result in better brightness numbers?
post #253 of 286
I'm just reading this and now I'm thinking your review shows its a good PJ but I do need a high gain screen to make the most of it.
post #254 of 286
When mentioning "radiance" is this what you were talking about?
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radianceMini_details

Does it allow color adjustment of an HDMI signal thus allowing you to compensate for the strong green in high brightness?
post #255 of 286
Yep thats it. They have quite a few versions now, including ones with a Darbee enhancer built in, and a 4k output one.

Yes, it allows full control of grayscale, gamma, and color, including a color "cube" adjustment when used along with Calman and Chromapure that measures and corrects at many points and saturation levels.

So if you pair that with a projector that offers only a few controls, you can still dial it in almost perfectly in most cases. A must have.
post #256 of 286
I'm considering buying a 133" screen for this projector. 120" also seemed fine except that for content that is not 16:9 I'd like to have a little more height. I want to use curtains anyway around the screen so if the extra screen space bothers me I'll just make motorized rails for the curtains to go in front of the screen. Mike recommended a 1.3 gain screen for this projector and my room type (no windows etc).

Now for my question,.. From what I'm reading it seems placing the projector closer to the screen decreases any brightness issues. Thus if I leave it zoomed out and just mount the projector closer I'll get an additional boost from that plus don't have to worry about losing any brightness due to the zoom tunneling as I've read for some projectors. Is this correct? If so would the angle of projection cause any issues? It seems to me that projecting closer means the angle for the projection has to be adjusted steeper so would the distortion caused by this not be greater?

Closer / Further? What would you do for this projector?
post #257 of 286
Yep normally projectors in this price range lose brightness as you zoom them more. So the closer you put it for a given screen size, the brighter it is. I think you will be fine at 133" and 1.3 gain, unless you are expecting a super bright image. Are you going to have dark walls, ceiling, and floor in your room? Kill the reflections as best you can.
post #258 of 286
I just ordered a 120" screen with Mike. After re-measuring the room I decided more is not always better since if I have to sit further from the screen it will eat up more seating area in the room. Measured at the front row 133" for 16:9 seemed a bit too much as I'd be too close.

I'm going to have to make holes in the walls here and there to install all the cables I want for my 7.1 setup with 4C cable anyway to I figured I might as well also paint.
The walls right now are a shade of beige I would say, its not white but certainly could be darker. I was thinking burgundy red or brown for the walls. Looking at pictures I do like the wall panels some people have so I wonder if I should make something like that myself using fabric. I did read of some people using acoustic panels on the walls but I have no idea whether that would be worth it. I'll get it setup first and then just see what works best.

I do like the effect of the wood pillars on the walls as well but wonder if that's purely aesthetic or if it has a purpose sound wise.

For audio I'm considering making a 7.1 setup using Polk's RTi's such as:
- RTiA9 High Performance Floorstanding Speakers - Pair (Cherry)
- RTiA3 High Performance Bookshelf Loudspeakers with 6 1/2" Driver - Pair (Cherry)
- CSiA6 High Performance Center Channel Speaker - Each (Cherry)

The RTiA3 are a little deep for my taste though as surround speakers.
post #259 of 286
You should start a thread in the dedicated theater design area, too, so your room can be discussed, but I would certainly give Bryan at Gik Acoustics a call to talk about your room. Bass trapping is quite possibly the #1 best bang for the buck in all of audio-land. That and multiple subwoofers. But give them a call. They will take your room design and give you pointers and suggest products for you . They are also very, very reasonably priced.

If you want a step up from there you can hire Nyal at Acoustic Frontiers to give you more of a full hands on design approach, or the room layout and design from Dennis Erskine (which is the route I went, with a few "add ons"). Both of these gentlemen do great work, but not much for "free" like Gik will do (of course you should end up buying products from Gik if you take their advice).

Have fun!
post #260 of 286
Excellent advice re Gik and multiple subs.
David
post #261 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

You should start a thread in the dedicated theater design area, too, so your room can be discussed, -snip-

Done:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484764/libs-home-theater
post #262 of 286
Well I got this projector in today and put it through around 5 hours of testing. I am sorry to say it wasn't for me.

Another forum member was over helping me critique it and see if it could be a decent interim projector for me as I have sold my Sony 1000. I set up a split screen with half of the lens from both projectors covered so I could make direct comparisons. Everything was fed from an Oppo 93 outputting HDMI from HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 direct to the projectors. Here are our observations:

Noise in the image. Must be DLP dithering I guess? (my first DLP so I can only assume this) Looked like crawlies in solid colors and backgrounds. Clouds, a solid color desk, night scenes, etc. This was a deal killer.

Too dim...as reported, I also measured around 800 lumens calibrated (by calibrated I mean the 100 IRE and 30 IRE points were calibrated to dead on with Calman and my Colormunki spectro), even at minimum throw. This could be OK for some, though. I got about 6 ftL on my .77 gain 160" wide scope screen. Also, the colors, while off, looked very flat as well. That is why my friend also described. Perhaps just a result of too little brightness, but it was a very flat image.

I did still see rainbows. Not horrible, and not as bad as the last color wheel DLP I saw at a dealer... years ago... but still there. I am ultra sensitive to them. If this had been an otherwise great projector for me, I could have forgiven the amount of rainbows I saw.

Noisy... but again, not so bad that I would have sent it back for this issue alone. Would certainly be drowned out by pretty much anything going on in a movie, but would draw attention to itself in a very quiet scene.

I do now know that I can see screen door from my seating distance with DLP... just barely in video material though. Pretty easily in text on menus, etc. I think I could get over this.

Grayish blacks.

Color is noticeably out of whack in all modes. Greens and yellows didn't look at all right. A Lumagen is a definite must have with this projector.

It also clipped blacker than black and whiter than white. Actually it clipped 16 and 234, so it dint make it all the way to BTB or WTW.

Near the end of my review period it simply quit working with 3D movies. The movie would start, and then the unit would try to tell me it expects to receive a 1080p60 signal (instead of the correct 1080p24) and just displays a white screen. It had worked earlier in the night, but now nothing I did would allow the 3d movie (and I tried multiple movies) to work. I didn't bother to keep troubleshooting.

The pros:

Quite sharp, and no noticeable bright corners or uniformity issues. Very little to no color fringing of any kind.

While there are no calibration controls beyond high and low adjustments for RGB, the gamma and grayscale was extremely linear from 30 to 100 ire after only adjusting those two spots. Very good in this regard.

No motorized lens controls, but the manual ones are very quick and easy to use. Smooth with good fine control.



So overall, not a winner for my HT. Too bad, as I was quite excited to check this PJ out.
Edited by hifiaudio2 - 8/7/13 at 8:45am
post #263 of 286
Interesting. Thanks for the review.

I plan on placing this thing close to the screen with a max of 120" diag projection with 1.3 gain. I'm guessing I'd have less of an issue with brightness then you reported?

I'm not sure what to make of the noise you report, I guess I'll have to wait for the unit to come in. They have a delay in shipping since the units they got from Panasonic arrived damaged so they are waiting for new units to come in which should be in the next few days.

When you say the colors are off would you consider it horrible even for less critical viewers? or just annoying to someone who is more of purist?
If absolutely needed I guess I could get a Lumagen for it but from what I read its not exactly plug and play so for me it might not help me since I would not know how to use it.
post #264 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Well I got this projector in today and put it through around 5 hours of testing. I am sorry to say it wasn't for me.

Another forum member was over helping me critique it and see if it could be a decent interim projector for me as I have sold my Sony 1000. I set up a split screen with half of the lens from both projectors covered so I could make direct comparisons. Everything was fed from an Oppo 93 outputting HDMI from HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 direct to the projectors. Here are our observations:

Noise in the image. Must be DLP dithering I guess? (my first DLP so I can only assume this) Looked like crawlies in solid colors and backgrounds. Clouds, a solid color desk, night scenes, etc. This was a deal killer.

Too dim...as reported, I also measured around 800 lumens calibrated (by calibrated I mean the 100 IRE and 30 IRE points were calibrated to dead on with Calman and my Colormunki spectro), even at minimum throw. This could be OK for some, though. I got about 6 ftL on my .77 gain 160" wide scope screen. Also, the colors, while off, looked very flat as well. That is why my friend also described. Perhaps just a result of too little brightness, but it was a very flat image.

I did still see rainbows. Not horrible, and not as bad as the last color wheel DLP I saw at a dealer... years ago... but still there. I am ultra sensitive to them. If this had been an otherwise great projector for me, I could have forgiven the amount of rainbows I saw.

Noisy... but again, not so bad that I would have sent it back for this issue alone. Would certainly be drowned out by pretty much anything going on in a movie, but would draw attention to itself in a very quiet scene.

I do now know that I can see screen door from my seating distance with DLP... just barely in video material though. Pretty easily in text on menus, etc. I think I could get over this.

Grayish blacks.

Color is noticeably out of whack in all modes. Greens and yellows didn't look at all right. A Lumagen is a definite must have with this projector.

Near the end of my review period it simply quit working with 3D movies. The movie would start, and then the unit would try to tell me it expects to receive a 1080p60 signal (instead of the correct 1080p24) and just displays a white screen. It had worked earlier in the night, but now nothing I did would allow the 3d movie (and I tried multiple movies) to work. I didn't bother to keep troubleshooting.

The pros:

Quite sharp, and no noticeable bright corners or uniformity issues. Very little to no color fringing of any kind.

While there are no calibration controls beyond high and low adjustments for RGB, the gamma and grayscale was extremely linear from 30 to 100 ire after only adjusting those two spots. Very good in this regard.

No motorized lens controls, but the manual ones are very quick and easy to use. Smooth with good fine control.



So overall, not a winner for my HT. Too bad, as I was quite excited to check this PJ out.

Doesn't sound like it's very good for HT at all..

Thx for sharing!
post #265 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator View Post

Interesting. Thanks for the review.

I plan on placing this thing close to the screen with a max of 120" diag projection with 1.3 gain. I'm guessing I'd have less of an issue with brightness then you reported?

I'm not sure what to make of the noise you report, I guess I'll have to wait for the unit to come in. They have a delay in shipping since the units they got from Panasonic arrived damaged so they are waiting for new units to come in which should be in the next few days.

When you say the colors are off would you consider it horrible even for less critical viewers? or just annoying to someone who is more of purist?
If absolutely needed I guess I could get a Lumagen for it but from what I read its not exactly plug and play so for me it might not help me since I would not know how to use it.

You'd be looking at close to 24 ftl's. That's plenty bright and maybe even too much depending how how bright you like you images.
post #266 of 286
Well in theory I can still back out of the projector purchase due to their shipping issue, they offered me a refund. The thing is,.. there are no alternatives as far as I know. In this price range with 3D and 1080P and no old fashioned lamp.
post #267 of 286
If it weren't for the image noise issue, and I had a smaller screen and wasn't bothered by rainbows, this would still be in the running. Sounds like you would be OK with your screen size.

Maybe I got a bad sample on the image noise and another one wouldn't do it. I guess I should have also swapped HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the Oppo just to make sure that wasn't causing it. It shouldn't, but one of those outputs does have their scaler chip in the mix while the other doesn't. Its an extremely popular Blu Ray player, though, so I think if that were an issue we would know.

Regarding the color... my opinion is that anyone would see the errors and want it corrected. Greens and yellows were very noticeably off to me. I would strongly suggest a Lumagen. You can get a Lumagen mini, especially used, for around $1k I think.
post #268 of 286
There was no mention of noise in any of the previous reviews so maybe there was some incompatibility in your specific setup.
Anyone else hear of a noise issue with this projector?

I wont be buying an Oppo since I have no idea why that thing is so expensive. I run servers in my home and I'm just going to run the projector off my media storage server. I'm a software engineer so I like to keep things in the software realm.

Well if anyone knows of a used Lumagen let me know please!
I read it can compensate for over-saturated colors but it cant increase them so I guess you'd have to tune down those colors you mention? I hope I can figure out how to use that thing.
post #269 of 286
If you have an HTPC you can calibrate your projector by using ArgyllCMS + madVR for free (you only need a meter). No need to buy a Lumagen in that case. If HTPC is no go for you, an eeColor box might be cheaper than a Lumagen. Not totally sure about prices, though. At least the eeColor box can do 65x65x65 calibration while the Lumagen only does 5x5x5 (plus separate gamma adjustments).
post #270 of 286
I don't really have any plans to connect the projector to anything else then a PC running 24/7 so if I can get away with just running software that would be great.
I was hoping to just be able to pop a Blu ray into it though and for the first time ever be able to actually play one without DRM issues. I have all sorts of hardware that is supposedly compatible but still has DRM issues with Blueray. Its a nightmare.

I'll look into those applications, tnx for the tip!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › PANASONIC PT-RZ470 FULL HD LED LASER