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2 Dayton Titanic MK III 15s or 1 TC Sounds LMS-R 15

post #1 of 112
6/15/12 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
So I was looking at purchasing 2 Dayton Titanic MK III 15s from PE, but after reading a little about the specs, I'm wondering if it might be better to get one LMS-R for roughly the same cost as the two Titancs?

The Dayton specs list its FR from 19-500 while the TC Sounds is 15-150. My goal is to get usable output sub 20 Hz. Am I even going to get close using either of these drivers? Are there other drivers out there I should consider?

Room size is yet to be determined, but it will likely be 14 X 10 X 7.5. Thanks.
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post #2 of 112
6/15/12 at 6:50am
The pair of Titanics will have the ability to have more output across the board. It depends on if you want two subs or one.
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post #3 of 112
6/15/12 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
I'm not so much worried about 1 vs 2, I just want to be able to feel some sub 20 Hz content. Coming from a setup with 3 BICs, I'm about 19 dB down at 20 Hz and like 25 or more at 15 Hz. I'd like to not be more than 6 dB down at 15, if not only 3 dB down...is that doable with these drivers, or does that pretty much require something more expensive?
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post #4 of 112
6/15/12 at 7:27am
Have you thought about looking at the Obsidian GD? I have zero experience with them, but for less money you could seriously increase you piston area and move up to a pair of 18"s for less money and similar power requirements. I have WinISD but have yet to spend time with it to model them for you. I bet someone here is willing to throw them in and give you some specific feedback. If I didn't already have something in the works, I would be considering the Obsidian 18" route.
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post #5 of 112
6/15/12 at 7:46am
It looks like they have already modeled them for IB use:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415588/any-one-her-of-obsadian-car-audio

I will keep looking for other examples.From memory I think the Titanic 15"s did best in ~5cf and someone did a sealed build with an Obsidian 18" in ~6cf with excellent results.
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post #6 of 112
6/15/12 at 7:55am
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1414173/obsidian-audio-18-subwoofer-build

Post 28 has them modeled in 8cf sealed. A pair in your size room would have amazing output capabilities for the $.
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post #7 of 112
6/15/12 at 7:59am
Thread Starter 
The graph looks to be about 24 dB down at 15 Hz...It sounds like I'd need to use my house as a ported box for 2 of these to get the results I am wanting?
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post #8 of 112
6/15/12 at 8:02am
Can you post you measurements thus far? More information about the room would be helpful as well.
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post #9 of 112
6/15/12 at 8:09am
Thread Starter 
What measurements do you want? The room is unfinished, I'm slowly in the process of finishing it. Currently the HT stuff is in my living room which is like 20' x 16' and opens to the kitchen and a hallway. I can post the winISD graphs I did from the daytons if thats what you're wanting? but I have no measurements from my HT room as its still in process of being built.
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post #10 of 112
6/15/12 at 8:21am
Sorry about that. I wasn't clear. I was referring to the measurements you described in post #3. Measuring is the only real way to identify how/where your system can be improved. For instance, if there was a pronounced null in the range you are trying to improve on, you could experiment with relocating your current subs to try and fill that range. That being said, chasing 15Hz can be a big challenge. The solution would depend on how your room responds/interacts with the addition of those frequencies. I will never get there in my home without an extreme solution due to the amount of space I would have to pressurize. A model is just a model. It can get you very close, but can not account for room gain, nulls, or modes.
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post #11 of 112
6/15/12 at 8:26am
With what you want to do, maximize subsonic output, the 18's would be a good option. However, you will also need to EQ to get the results that you want.

Additionally, the models don't account for room gain at very low frequencies. Given your budget two of the 18's matched with EQ would be the best way to get what you want, as there is no replacement for displacement.
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post #12 of 112
6/15/12 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
I'm down for the 18s, if they'll get me close to what I am chasing... here is a question for you, I notice in a lot of graphs the 10-15 Hz is down 10 dB or more from where the 20+ stuff is. I also understand you can't really "hear" ultra low frequencies, only feel them? so how much does it matter if its flat to 10 vs being 10 dB lower?

in other words, if you're hitting 126 dB at 20 Hz (hypothetical), would being at 115 dB at 14 Hz be noticable? I'm assuming yes it will still shake the crap out of stuff?
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post #13 of 112
6/15/12 at 9:31am
How large of an enclosure (possibly multiplied by 2) can you deal with in your room?
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post #14 of 112
6/15/12 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Well, I'm still building the room, so theoretically, any size. I can keep the room at 20 x 9.5 and then it wouldn't matter, I'm not sure at 14 x 9.5 what sizes I can do. 11 ft^3 would be what, 30 x 25.5 x 25 ish. X 2 would be pretty massive for 9.5 feet wide, one on either side would bring it down to 5 feet for TV...I'd have to place them elsewhere,behind the seating position? or I could pull the TV forward and put them behind it somwhere (if I stayed at 20' length)
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post #15 of 112
6/15/12 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

I'm down for the 18s, if they'll get me close to what I am chasing... here is a question for you, I notice in a lot of graphs the 10-15 Hz is down 10 dB or more from where the 20+ stuff is. I also understand you can't really "hear" ultra low frequencies, only feel them? so how much does it matter if its flat to 10 vs being 10 dB lower?
in other words, if you're hitting 126 dB at 20 Hz (hypothetical), would being at 115 dB at 14 Hz be noticable? I'm assuming yes it will still shake the crap out of stuff?

Those graphs don't show room gain, and the gain isn't linear as you go down in frequency. My single 18" obsidian energizes my room pretty darn good with a 10 hz sine wave.

Dan
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post #16 of 112
6/15/12 at 10:04am
Is there a budget for this whole build? Is simplicity a concern?
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post #17 of 112
6/15/12 at 10:23am
Another way to approach this is to cheat a little. An amp like the O Audio 500 watt has boosted HPF's, which would allow you to get really flat to very low frequencies, at the expense of extreme outputs at those frequencies.

328


That's with the Titanic 15, and the O Audio's 16hz HPF setting, showing your max output below 20hz.. Above 20hz you would have about 7 db more head room.
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post #18 of 112
6/15/12 at 10:38am
Thread Starter 
Budget is a moving target, but I'd like to not spend more than $500 on drivers. The 18" obsidians would help there obviously coming in at $340 for 2 of them. I figure another $150-$200 for cabinet making and $300 for an inuke 3000DSP. will put me somewhere under $1000.

I've thought about bumping up the low frequencies with EQ, being such a small room, I don't think I need the driver to be able to hit 126 dB in a field....so that is a viable option. Thanks.
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post #19 of 112
6/15/12 at 11:10am
How soon did you want the project done? Cuz, the Obsidian 18's won't be around for about 4 months, minimum. Could be longer. Not everyone likes to play the waiting game and I'm not saying they won't deliver the next batch but who knows? Anything could happen. You may not get your drivers for some time. So you might want to consider this project with drivers that are actually available. Just sayin'.

A couple of vented Dayton DVC's or Titanic 15's fits the bill. Go sealed if you want <15hz extension.
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post #20 of 112
6/15/12 at 11:25am
Crud, sorry, I had no idea there was an availability issue.

What about the Fi SSD? The 15" is $20 more and the 18" is $50 more per driver when compared to the Titanic 15" and I have heard great reviews here on those. Just throwing some ideas your way.

Oh and for the record, I own and have been very happy with my Titanic 15". It is a great driver for ~$200. I would recommend staying away from the PE enclosure in this case as I had major panel vibration issues with mine. It seems even sealed they will do very well in a sealed ~5cf enclosure.

If you have the budget, I will always try and maximize piston area and go with an 18" that fits your install criteria.
Edited by filtor1 - 6/15/12 at 11:33am
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post #21 of 112
6/15/12 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
I think I like the Titanic over the FI for the simple fact that 2 Titanics would cost $160 less than 2 SSD 18s with shipping costs. PE offers free shipping.
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post #22 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:05pm
Sounds good! i think you will be very happy going that route. If you have the room, It appears that 8cf tuned VERY low 12Hz will get you closer to your goal. I look forward to seeing what you choose to do.
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post #23 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
I saw that 8 ft^3 tuned to 12, it requires a ridiculous set of ports. I like the size of the Captivator pros Archaea has, but I think those are smaller than 8 ft^3
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post #24 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:22pm
If you did a slot port, 2" x 12" x 52" shouldn't be so bad wrapped around the inside of the cabinet. You would just need to account for the 1930 in3 volume displacement of the port
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post #25 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:26pm
Yeah it does require massive ports. Anything tuned that low to get solid 15Hz reproduction will have a huge enclosure and huge ports. You always have the option of building slot ports into the enclosure.That will significantly reduce the build cost. What you are trying to accomplish will take some sacrifice. With a budget approach, larger enclosures are the answer.
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post #26 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:45pm
The titanics are great drivers. You can't go wrong. Throw them in 6 CF sealed boxes, a ep4000 or similar and you have a winner!
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post #27 of 112
6/15/12 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 
I'm sure as I go through this I'll have a bajillion questions. I'll have to look at examples of how slot ports are done, the idea seems straightforward, but methods for jointing at the corners I'll have to figure out.

As for accounting for the volume of the port, you simply tack on a few cubic inches to the internal volume of the box correct?
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post #28 of 112
6/15/12 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
Also,

Does the Titanic go on sale often?
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post #29 of 112
6/15/12 at 1:50pm
You would basically be building the "Easy Button MAX"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1093893/easy-button-end-table-max-26-5-x-24-x-37-5-hwd

Except the port doesnt need to be anywhere near that serious, as a 500 watt 15" doesnt require it. The easiest way to calculate all the volume used by ports/braces/etc

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/

I dont recall the last time the Titanic was on sale, so no it isnt very often.
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post #30 of 112
6/15/12 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the links Jay. I read that build the other day, its what got me thinking about doing a coffee table with a sonotube style base, problem ended up being, to get the correct volume....the table would have to be like 60 inches long lol, thats a darn long coffee table!

I might still think about end tables though...but 9.5 feet wide doesn't give much room for seating, my couch would fit, but would have like 1 inch on either side lol. Will have to look for alternative seating, love seat/theater seating or something similar once its done. Thanks.
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