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BEF from Norway,DIY Uncompromising Theater - Page 6

post #151 of 169
Excellent Home Theater! I especially like the hinged screen to get to the speakers.
post #152 of 169
Merry Christmas, BEF! A white Christmas, I presume? There's not a single snowflake in sight here in Belgium.

I am more determined than ever to build the inConcert Miles myself for our HT. The implementation of the active crossover was frightening me, but I did some reading on the miniDSP website which makes me confident I can pull it of.

I am working on an external redesign as only the center will be behind the AT screen. The Left, Right and both Surrounds are in the room. I want the two Surrounds to be identical to the Fronts. I worked out an ellipse shape, with the same straight front baffle. It's a bit of a challenge to make, but possible.

The layout would be MTM (like atledreier's) and on stands. So, I will stick with a two-way not to make things more complicated. I'd need fifteen amp channels for five three-ways, now I "only" need ten! I will use the miniDSP 10x10 HD
http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-10x10-Hd for crossover duties.

Thanks again for all the inspiration.
post #153 of 169
Thread Starter 
There has been no snow in Norway this year, actually 7-8 degrees here these days, an benefit is that i do not have to shovel the snow smile.gif

A active speaker setup is not very scary, it givs you a lot of benefits and are very flexibel. But it requers som work when you are start it up. I have not woekt that much whit minidsp products, but i have heard yhat they shoud be very good for the price.
post #154 of 169
What is wrong with the climate, huh? Of course, let's not forget Oslo is nearer to where I live than to the northest part of Norway smile.gif

Anyway, I have been browsing the scandinavian forums which confirmed that there is agreement - even from mr Tangen who designed the Miles - that a threeway with a dedicated midrange is superior. You chose a Beyma 12" (12G40). Why didn't you go with the Beyma 10MI100 (10") which was what mr Tangen had in mind I believe or was it the 8G40 (8")? Gargoyle used the 10MI100 in his fantastic build:

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/mitt-hi-fi-anlegg/71117-ntligen-hemma.html

I stated only five days ago that I'd make two-ways as in the original Miles but alaas! That darn internet always tricks me in ever more complicated and expensive things!

BTW, I read that article which featured your HT. A great read, Bjorn-Eric!
Edited by erwinfrombelgium - 12/29/13 at 9:57am
post #155 of 169
Two-way and then cross to subs actively at 80 and you have a threeway. No need to make it more complicated than that.
post #156 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Two-way and then cross to subs actively at 80 and you have a threeway. No need to make it more complicated than that.

Define "need"biggrin.gif
It's more a matter of "want"...

Thing is, I have been reading several posts and I am sure you too since you are in Sweden, claiming that the Beyma TPL150H should be crossed higher than the 900 Hz in Tangen's inConcert Miles. Hence you need a midrange driver. Or two...

But maybe you are correct and I am seeing things. Have you heard the Miles? I can only hear it if I build one. Maybe I should build simply one two-way speaker (for center) and see how it sounds and measures.
post #157 of 169
The only Miles I've heard is the one from Marten Design, and I see they are up to 5th gen on it, I've only heard the original so that must be about 15 years ago now. It wasn't my cup of tea then. Too bright/overfocused on details for my taste. ( which is the same as I say about Wilson, for reference )
post #158 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

The only Miles I've heard is the one from Marten Design, and I see they are up to 5th gen on it, I've only heard the original so that must be about 15 years ago now. It wasn't my cup of tea then. Too bright/overfocused on details for my taste. ( which is the same as I say about Wilson, for reference )

You are referring to a totally different speaker:
http://www.marten.se/heritage/miles5.htm
post #159 of 169
Well, then the one you mean isn't something that's been discussed on the main hifi forum in Sweden, sorry.
post #160 of 169
BEF,

What is your opinion on this: replace the two Beyma 15P80Nd for two 12P80Nd, keeping it as a two-way? This should let me raise the crossover to about 1200 Hz. Keeps things simple and they play just as loud. I loose a bit of the lowest end, but that's where the subs are for.

12P80NdE.pdf 280k .pdf file

15P80NdE.pdf 168k .pdf file
post #161 of 169
WOW awesome:D
post #162 of 169
Thread Starter 
The challange whit a midrange to inMiles is to find one that can provide fullnes/bass down for making the transition in to the 15" as good as posible. Its also have to go up to about 1.8Khz so you are over the worst area for the TLP-150H. The 12G40 have all that and works very good. The decision to go for thet element is done in consultation with Mr.Tangen.

If you go for a solution with two 12P80Nd you will lose some of the fullness and the airy bass you have with 15P80Nd, the area of the element is very important.
post #163 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

WOW awesome:D
Thank you biggrin.gif
post #164 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEF-NO View Post

The challange whit a midrange to inMiles is to find one that can provide fullnes/bass down for making the transition in to the 15" as good as posible. Its also have to go up to about 1.8Khz so you are over the worst area for the TLP-150H. The 12G40 have all that and works very good. The decision to go for thet element is done in consultation with Mr.Tangen.

If you go for a solution with two 12P80Nd you will lose some of the fullness and the airy bass you have with 15P80Nd, the area of the element is very important.

More food for thought, then.rolleyes.gif

How are you handling the subwoofers? "Small" or "large"? Which crossover point? 80 Hz?

Is the 12G40 superior near 1800 Hz vs the 12P80Nd as a dedicated midrange?

Sorry for all those questions!

EDIT: I managed to get in touch with Stig Erik Tangen via diyAudio.com and ask him about which midrange to use. Here is his reply:

I recommended the 12G40 midrange for its very low distortion and clean sound.

I think that a 12" integrated better with the TPL, because the dispersion of the TPL is quite narrow around the XO (1.5 - 2 kHz), and the dispersion of a 12" matches well, much better than a smaller driver I think.


This makes sense (I guess). I will start with the center speaker then because it is placed behind the AT screen, where the other four (LR and Surround) will be floor-standers. Therefor, it will be shaped a bit different vs the rest. Hopefully the center will sound good enough to proceed!

After evaluation I will decide whether to go three-way for the two Surrounds. There's only one thing better than identical full range LCR and that is identical full range LCR+Surround...
And then there are the new formats such as Auro-3D which need more speakers! cool.gif
Edited by erwinfrombelgium - 12/31/13 at 9:34am
post #165 of 169
I just stumbled on your thread BEF-NO, absolutely AMAZING!!! Lots of attention to detail and a very high quality build. Thanks for sharing and enjoy!!!
post #166 of 169
BEF,


What is your experience regarding this quote from Stig Erik Tangen:

the dispersion of the TPL is quite narrow around the XO (1.5 - 2 kHz)

Shouldn't a HT speaker have very wide dispersion? I thought the horn was added to give the TPL a usable 80° dispersion?
post #167 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

BEF,


What is your experience regarding this quote from Stig Erik Tangen:

the dispersion of the TPL is quite narrow around the XO (1.5 - 2 kHz)

Shouldn't a HT speaker have very wide dispersion? I thought the horn was added to give the TPL a usable 80° dispersion?

The area under 1.7 Khz is a weak area for TLP-150H, can you avoid using it under the area it is possitive. It felt much more airy, dynamic and the sweet spot will be better then.
post #168 of 169
What a fantastic build. I am both delighted and impressed, very good craftsmanship.

I wish I could hear the finished product. It has been so much fun to look through the thread.

THANK YOU for POSTING ALL THE DETAILS smile.gif
post #169 of 169
wow I came across this build from another thread and it is simple gorgeous, well done, how has the theater fair since you finished it and have you done any other changes since then?
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