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3d from PC to passive display

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Ok, I just started playing Diablo 3 and thought that the game might look pretty good in 3d. I have seen posts about using iz3d or tridef drivers for passive displays. But what I want to know is if 2d to 3d conversion is just as good as these drivers/programs. I know nvidia has their 3dplay drivers for passive sets but they don't have a trial version. In the end aren't these drivers just doing a conversion within the pc just the same as the television is going to do?

FWIW I have an LG lw5600 passive set and an nvidia 8800 card (I know its on the low end for 3d, but since Diablo 3 isn't a resource hog, I figure I can try it out).
post #2 of 13
Just like movies, 2D conversion isn't as good as native 3D. Whenever you run one of the "native" programs, like 3D Vision, TriDef, or IZ3D, it's actually rendering the game in "true" 3D.

That said, there are ways of getting passive monitors to work with NVidia's 3D Vision. I'm doing it myself, but it does require a video card that can support 3D Vision, and that didn't start until the 460, I think.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "3D Play"... 3D Vision is built directly into the video drivers, and is completely free, so there's no such thing as a "trial" with that. I think what you're referring to is 3D TV Play, which is for video content, not games, so it wouldn't do you any good for Diablo anyway.

Bear in mind that Diablo isn't optimized for 3D yet. I know it's got some issues with 3D Vision, I have no idea about the other two packages, I see no reason to use them when my card has the functionality built right into it.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Just like movies, 2D conversion isn't as good as native 3D. Whenever you run one of the "native" programs, like 3D Vision, TriDef, or IZ3D, it's actually rendering the game in "true" 3D.
That said, there are ways of getting passive monitors to work with NVidia's 3D Vision. I'm doing it myself, but it does require a video card that can support 3D Vision, and that didn't start until the 460, I think.
I'm not sure what you're referring to as "3D Play"... 3D Vision is built directly into the video drivers, and is completely free, so there's no such thing as a "trial" with that. I think what you're referring to is 3D TV Play, which is for video content, not games, so it wouldn't do you any good for Diablo anyway.
Bear in mind that Diablo isn't optimized for 3D yet. I know it's got some issues with 3D Vision, I have no idea about the other two packages, I see no reason to use them when my card has the functionality built right into it.

Ok, I see.

I can't get 3d Vision to work with my LG passive display. I read that I have to tweak or fake the edid inf file or something but I don't know how to do it. I tried Tridef for awhile but I can't get it dialed in. No biggie honestly since my PC probably can't handle too much of it, I just wanted to try it out! I have this fancy-pants 3d tv and I don't have much content to throw at it (damned Directv) so anything I can do is a plus.

Here's a question: What, then, are 3d blu ray discs if a pc can take regular content and make 'true' 3d content from them?
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsantsa View Post

Here's a question: What, then, are 3d blu ray discs if a pc can take regular content and make 'true' 3d content from them?
I think you're misunderstanding. Games in 3D is something completely different from video in 3D.

With video, you're talking something that's already been created in 2D, or 3D. If it's 3D, then it can display "true" 3D. If it's 2D, then either the software or the monitor has to convert it. Usually poorly.. there's a reason Hollywood shells out millions for 3D conversions instead of just feeding it through a computer program.

With games, you're creating the images from scratch right on your PC, so they can be rendered directly.. there's no conversion required, that's not what the software is doing.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsantsa View Post

Ok, I see.
I can't get 3d Vision to work with my LG passive display. I read that I have to tweak or fake the edid inf file or something but I don't know how to do it. I tried Tridef for awhile but I can't get it dialed in. No biggie honestly since my PC probably can't handle too much of it, I just wanted to try it out! I have this fancy-pants 3d tv and I don't have much content to throw at it (damned Directv) so anything I can do is a plus.
Here's a question: What, then, are 3d blu ray discs if a pc can take regular content and make 'true' 3d content from them?
=======
Here are the directions to make your LG passive display work with Nivida.
http://3dvision-blog.com/7163-make-your-passive-3d-monitor-or-3d-hdtv-work-with-3d-vision/
Passive display uses "Optimized for Nividia Geforce" for 3D and not "3D Vision" software. This is built into the drivers and doesn't require any additional software.
Once you follow the directions, you will need to choose "interlaced" 3D mode from the LG menu and also swap the 3d effect from left to right or right to left to get the proper effect. (Also found in the LG 3D menu.)
The interlaced mode will allow for 60hz 3D gaming but you will lose visual quality in the games you play.
Nvidia does have a "try before you buy" for their 3D software called Nvidia 3dTV Play, it is the same thing as in 3D Vision software but works without the Nvidia emitter and glasses. The trial is for 14 days. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
I hope this helps. smile.gif
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

I think what you're referring to is 3D TV Play, which is for video content, not games, so it wouldn't do you any good for Diablo anyway.

Actually, 3D TV Play is just 3D Vision output through HDMI for HDMI 1.4 displays (aka, 3D TVs). 720p frame packed at 60fps or 1080p frame packed at 24fps. It can in fact be used for games including Diablo.

Checking 3D TV Play's supported TVs, Tsantsa's LG lw5600 appears to be supported. Perhaps the method CyberScott linked to would also work, but I'd second his suggestion to just try the 14 day trial of 3DTV Play. It should work and it should be simple, ideal if you're just curious and want to try it out.

EDIT: On second look, your Nvidia 8800 card doesn't appear to support 3D TV Play. It probably doesn't have the requirements for HDMI 1.4.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airion View Post

Actually, 3D TV Play is just 3D Vision output through HDMI for HDMI 1.4 displays (aka, 3D TVs). 720p frame packed at 60fps or 1080p frame packed at 24fps. It can in fact be used for games including Diablo.
Checking 3D TV Play's supported TVs, Tsantsa's LG lw5600 appears to be supported. Perhaps the method CyberScott linked to would also work, but I'd second his suggestion to just try the 14 day trial of 3DTV Play. It should work and it should be simple, ideal if you're just curious and want to try it out.
EDIT: On second look, your Nvidia 8800 card doesn't appear to support 3D TV Play. It probably doesn't have the requirements for HDMI 1.4.

It doesn't seem that it's supported (the 8800gt).

Also, what I meant about the on the fly 3d, was for movies as well. Doesn't the 3dtv Play convert video to 3d as well or does it need a 3d source to do that? I understand that graphics is a different beast.


OH, I tried that guide for the .inf file, but I don't know where to put it...either I can't read, or the guide is a little vague...
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberScott View Post

=======
Here are the directions to make your LG passive display work with Nivida.
http://3dvision-blog.com/7163-make-your-passive-3d-monitor-or-3d-hdtv-work-with-3d-vision/
Passive display uses "Optimized for Nividia Geforce" for 3D and not "3D Vision" software. This is built into the drivers and doesn't require any additional software.
Once you follow the directions, you will need to choose "interlaced" 3D mode from the LG menu and also swap the 3d effect from left to right or right to left to get the proper effect. (Also found in the LG 3D menu.)
The interlaced mode will allow for 60hz 3D gaming but you will lose visual quality in the games you play.
Nvidia does have a "try before you buy" for their 3D software called Nvidia 3dTV Play, it is the same thing as in 3D Vision software but works without the Nvidia emitter and glasses. The trial is for 14 days. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
I hope this helps. smile.gif

Hey, since I've now learned to read properly (see my above post!), I have gotten the inf file to take. When I go to diablo 3 it looks like it's in that interleaved mode, but the option for that in the 3d menu is grayed out. none of the other options do a damned thing... I'm missing a step here...Or I still haven't learned to properly read.


EDIT: Ok, I finally figured it out. The Nvidia driver wants you to run the game at desktop res, and I had the game at 1268x720 (or similar). Once I switched it to 1080 it was fine, looked good etc...BUT, once I got there, I started noticing artifacts and blips throughout my system. I think my gpu was overheating. I played for quite some time so this is possible. I am turning it off now and will see in about an hour.
Edited by Tsantsa - 6/18/12 at 9:10pm
post #9 of 13
iZ3D and Tridef support scaling when in interlaced 3D mode (rendering your game at 1280x720, upscale the picture to 1080p and perform interlacing at 1080p to match your 3D display's interlacing)
I am using DDD, a friend came over to test Diablo 3 in 3D on my system and it works great with the latest DDD driver.

I haven't tried Diablo 3 on iZ3D, so I do not know how it renders there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsantsa View Post

Also, what I meant about the on the fly 3d, was for movies as well. Doesn't the 3dtv Play convert video to 3d as well or does it need a 3d source to do that? I understand that graphics is a different beast.
OH, I tried that guide for the .inf file, but I don't know where to put it...either I can't read, or the guide is a little vague...
Video only contain 2D data, it is very difficult to make a computer program guess depth information out of a 2D picture. All the attempts at automatic conversion I've seen were terrible at best. You have to understand that when your brain guesses depth information from a 2D photograph, you are performing a very advanced mental process of identifying shapes, recognizing known objects (people, buildings, trees etc...) and guessing depth according to your own knowledge of these objects you have recognized. Things that are way beyond the scope of real time conversion algorithms.

3DTV play is meant for games only : all it does is grant access to the 3D vision game logic and hdmi 1.4 frame packing output when using a white-listed hdmi 1.4 3DTV.
Most 3D movie player developers have an agreement with Nvidia to access the Hdmi output from 3DTV play for free even if the user hasn't paid Nvidia for a license.
Edited by BlackShark - 6/20/12 at 10:28am
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

iZ3D and Tridef support scaling when in interlaced 3D mode (rendering your game at 1280x720, upscale the picture to 1080p and perform interlacing at 1080p to match your 3D display's interlacing)
I am using DDD, a friend came over to test Diablo 3 in 3D on my system and it works great with the latest DDD driver.
I haven't tried Diablo 3 on iZ3D, so I do not know how it renders there.
Video only contain 2D data, it is very difficult to make a computer program guess depth information out of a 2D picture. All the attempts at automatic conversion I've seen were terrible at best. You have to understand that when your brain guesses depth information from a 2D photograph, you are performing a very advanced mental process of identifying shapes, recognizing known objects (people, buildings, trees etc...) and guessing depth according to your own knowledge of these objects you have recognized. Things that are way beyond the scope of real time conversion algorithms.
3DTV play is meant for games only : all it does is grant access to the 3D vision game logic and hdmi 1.4 frame packing output when using a white-listed hdmi 1.4 3DTV.
Most 3D movie player developers have an agreement with Nvidia to access the Hdmi output from 3DTV play for free even if the user hasn't paid Nvidia for a license.


Well, I got it to work finally. The only problem is that i MUST run the game in 1920x1080 to get it to work otherwise it formats incorrectly. In 1080 i get significant framerate issues. AFAIK there aren't any more adjustments to get 720 to work. I know about using the convergence and all that, but it only seems to have an effect when in 1080... When I try to run the game in 1280x720, it LOOKS interleaved, but it seems to just pull everything apart and THEN does the 3d processing on top of that. It's hard to explain since I'm not terribly familiar with it. Maybe I'll post a pic.
I tried changing my desktop res to 720 to match the game but it doesn't work.

Now my thought is whether it's even worth it for me to purchase 3dtv play.
post #11 of 13
It sounds like you'll want something like Blackshark was talking about.. something that can scale the rendered image (at 720p or whatever) up to 1080p for the split to 3D. The issue is that the retarder filter is built directly onto the physical pixels of the screen. It must be interlaced at 1080 resolution, there is no way physically for the monitor to display anything else.

Also bear in mind that 3D itself is a bit of a hit on performance. It varies from game to game, but a general rule of thumb would be to expect a 50% framerate hit, simply because it's having to render everything twice. You might want to look at a more powerful video card.. I had an 8800 for years before it died, and it was outdated when I bought it.
post #12 of 13
Does PC allow 2 HDMI connections out, one for each eye, to connect to a passive projector double stack?
post #13 of 13
Yes,
That's what I use.

Dual projectors is not a standard consumer way of doing this so there is no support from Nvidia 3D Vision or AMD HD3D. In order to get it working, you'll need to use specialized 3D application that support this type of output for pictures and movies and third party drivers from DDD or iZ3D for games.
There are also some specificities on the graphics card support since Dual projectors is traditionally a professional type of 3D display, and is only officially supported on professional graphics cards (Nvidia quadro or AMD Firepro). If you have a consumer graphics card, you can still kind of make it work, but in order to get perfect results, you'll have to use some tricks that currently only work with specific graphics cards. Check the link in my signature for more info (it's a bit outdated, I need to rewrite it, but you"ll get the idea).
You can also check the "Ultimate 3D projection" thread in the >3000$ projector section.
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