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Samsung 60ES8000 or Panasonic 65VT50? - Page 3

post #61 of 103
*sigh*

Ok, you win.

Your opinions are all facts. Everything coming out of your brain and it's opinion are a fact.

Do you feel better that your opinion is now a fact?

Good, move on.

PS, I have not argued one bit about your opinion. Because as I have stated over and over and over you are completely welcome to it. As I am mine.

PPS, go back and look at your vaunted Shootout video and tell me the brightest TV in the room was not the LED/LED. I dare you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

"but you guys have taken this thread way off course" Yeah we're the culprits biggrin.gif screw the facts, how dare we correct your dungload of misinformation. You've been argueing with us for the last 2 pages and when you lose one argument you somehow link it to a different argument if only to spew more misinformation rolleyes.gif Ir on plasmas is no worse than it has ever been, samsung has just as many issues as panasonic and the new generation of plasmas are anything but dim. <<<- biggrin.gif These are called facts David you can not argue against facts.
post #62 of 103
Yeah that's a nice obvious fact you have their, Hey guess what... The sun is brighter than the moon eek.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif
Of course the Led is brighter, no one has been disputing that, we've been disputing your outrageous claims that Panasonic is the Devil, That the vt50 is a dim display, that modern Plasmas have horrible image retention and that lcds have better motion performance.
post #63 of 103
+ 1 david
post #64 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Yeah that's a nice obvious fact you have their, Hey guess what... The sun is brighter than the moon eek.gifwink.gif .

And the sun is better (at least more important). Ergo, brightness is the most important thing, right? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
post #65 of 103
Well yeah of course biggrin.gif That was actually a terrible comparison on my part tongue.gif Lcds are definetly not as important or useful as the Sun.
post #66 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

And the sun is better (at least more important). Ergo, brightness is the most important thing, right? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
Hey, hey now... Without the moon our oceans would run rampant. The ying and the yang,,, can't have one without the other.biggrin.gif
post #67 of 103
Pfft biggrin.gif No way man, just check out the galaxy shootout and tell me the sun isn't the brightest in the room tongue.gif
post #68 of 103
I'm looking for a 65VT50 or any other 60"+ screen for the living room and wanting a great home theatre experience...

I'm glad that I found this, it's like striking oil!! I love the back and forth educational sharing but I'm so lost, as I'm seriously a newbie, hence 1st post...

Will definitely stay tuned for more constructive feedback smile.gif
post #69 of 103
Anyone who's considering to buy the es800 led might want to check out the new review on cnet. Panasonic vt50 advantages: Better black level, shadow detail, contrast, picture uniformity, viewing angle, color accuracy, and according to David Katzmier it handles reflections better because of Samsungs clear coat screen. Samsung es8000 advantages: it is brighter.......ummmmmm.......oh! It has voice and gesture control that don't work for ****! and........oh yeah a slim bezel. Its quite the compelling comparison. In all seriousness i sell tv's and these two tv's sit right next to each other on my sales floor. In most cases ,especially because the lighting is dimmed down a little, the vt50 makes the es8000 look broken. If i put a blu ray demo on with dark high contrast scenes even Stevie Wonder could see the vt50 looks better.
post #70 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby1015 View Post

. If i put a blu ray demo on with dark high contrast scenes even Stevie Wonder could see the vt50 looks better.

You can feel it all oh-oh-over.... smile.gif
post #71 of 103
Unless you watch most of your TV during the day in an extremely bright sun-dreanched room and/or you are a HARDCORE gamer, the VT50 (along with the ST/GT50) will blow away the ES8000. Even then I would still buy the ST/GT/VT!

Build quality and reliability are no doubt in favor of Panasonic over Samsung as well.

THATS IT! ...IMO there really is no arguement.

*edit* If you want a little more fair fight then at least compare the Samsung PN-6500/7000/8000 plasma's to the Panasonic ST/GT/VT plasma's.
Edited by wattheF - 7/14/12 at 7:16pm
post #72 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby1015 View Post

Anyone who's considering to buy the es800 led might want to check out the new review on cnet. Panasonic vt50 advantages: Better black level, shadow detail, contrast, picture uniformity, viewing angle, color accuracy, and according to David Katzmier it handles reflections better because of Samsungs clear coat screen. Samsung es8000 advantages: it is brighter.......ummmmmm.......oh! It has voice and gesture control that don't work for ****! and........oh yeah a slim bezel. Its quite the compelling comparison. In all seriousness i sell tv's and these two tv's sit right next to each other on my sales floor. In most cases ,especially because the lighting is dimmed down a little, the vt50 makes the es8000 look broken. If i put a blu ray demo on with dark high contrast scenes even Stevie Wonder could see the vt50 looks better.

Ha! ''The vt50 makes the es8000 look broken". That made me laugh, but its so true. I looked at the ES8000 at the store the other day and I thought it looked kinda bad. And that was with all those bright store lights on. It must look downright aweful with the lights out!
post #73 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ha! ''The vt50 makes the es8000 look broken". That made me laugh, but its so true. I looked at the ES8000 at the store the other day and I thought it looked kinda bad. And that was with all those bright store lights on. It must look downright aweful with the lights out!

I a way it WAS broken.
The Cell Light HAS to be set to the maxium of 20.
I doubt it was since the default is at a lower number to save energy.
With the E450 the Cell Light default setting out of the box is a paltry 6 out of 20 and
the picture Mode is set to 'Standard' resulting is a badly washed out
looking picture and yes it does look like the set is broken.
The Cell Light must be set to max and then you use the contrast AND brightness
to control how bright or dim you want it for day-night or dark room viewing.

I Keep the Cell Light at 20 and simply adjust the Brightness and Contrast.

This works for me.

Brightness
In daytime = 50
In evening = 40
In the dark = 30 to 35
Contrast no lower than 90 even in the dark.

Mode - Movie
Cell Light 20
Contrast 97
Brightness 50 (average
Sharpness 0
Color 55
R/G Tint 50/50
Color Space - Native
Gamma -1
Dynamic Contrast - off
Black Tone - Darkest
Flesh Tone - 0
Color Tone - Warm1
Size - Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter - Off
HDMI Black Level - Low
Film Mode - Off
post #74 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Plasmas actually refresh faster than lcds David. Just for kicks i will bring up hockey, explain your reasoning please smile.gif

For some reason, hockey is a nightmare on Plasma's. Not looked at hockey on my new Sammy PN60E7000 yet. Not a real hockey nut though and hockey is now in the off season.

Guess I will find out if hockey really is the "Hockey Horror Picture Show". biggrin.gif
post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Do I really really have to go over this entire thread? Or do you just want to pick out 4 words of mine and missreprsent them every couple of posts?
ALMOST all people will "pick" a brighter more vivid picture.
ALMOST all people will choose a 120hz/240hz LCD/LED showing a bright picture with live sports over a dimmer 60hz Plasma showing sports.
These are just the facts.
You might like black levels, and the more "film like" display 24/48/96fps of Plasma can provide, but without the lower prices of Plasma, they would have been dead in the consumer market years ago because ALMOST ALL people like the brighter picture of an LCD/LED.
If you read the thread also, you will see I prefer plasmas, I have plasmas, and I wouldn't even buy the elite if it where the same price as a plasma.
You can stick your head in the sand and ignore the real facts that most people prefer LCD all you want, it won't change facts.
For ever person you think you can "convert" to Plasma, there will be 10 that think your love for plasma is crazy.
You can love whatever you like, but most people wouldn't agree with you or any other plasma lover that plasma's look better. We are a minority.
People that play video games on a Plasma will ALWAYS regret buying a plasma after they start to see the HUDS of games burned into their $2000 to $4000 plasma.
I will never be one to tell someone that likes Sports, with the ever present scrolling tickertapes at the bottom, logos all over the bottom of the screen, and that play hours of Video games with HUDS that will burn in after a few years to get a Plasma.
Plasma's are for mostly Film and light Gaming/Sports.
If you love Sports and Gaming, get an LCD.
Good luck to the OP. I hope he got one of the VT's that don't get horrible IR like many people are starting to see as the VT30/50s are ageing.

If an oversaturated picture is of ones liking, get a back lit LED panel.

I know at least a few people that run their LCD TV's in basically "Torch" mode. THey say they like their picture real bright. You are correct their sir.

Sort of hard to believe you like plasma.
post #76 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1389009/gt30-massive-image-retention
He probably got it from this thread which has people comparing their panels to 4 year old panasonics. Of course the older panels will have less ir, it's what happens when a panel ages. Just because Samsungs plasma did better in a cnet accident for ir doesn't mean the panasonics are horrible at it, they weren't even calibrated and they use a brighter panel than the Samsung.
People buy lcds for 4 reasons and none have anything to do with picture quality in the average living room:
1: Power: Modern plasmas may draw less power than older ones but edge lit lcds draw less power than older lcds and around half the average plasma.
2: Form factor: Thin is in! tongue.gif The average joe wants the thinnest panel they can get because it's just sexier.
3. Percieved Brightness: How they look in the local best buy's with lighting thats brighter than the sun! (I don't live on the sun biggrin.gif )
4. Fear of BURN IN 0o : People still think that if they leave a static image on the screen for a few minutes it'll jump out of the screen and attack them in an inferno cool.gif
I only see one rational pro for lcds on that list and the amount of power that these displays draw is pretty negligable compared to my 400 watt gaming rig or my 800 watt (rms 2 channel) amplifier.

My opinion on LCD vs Plasma is that people know LCD. Heck, your phone, computer screen, tablet, MP3 player, phone, etc have LCD screen. You could walk up to the most tech illeterate person and they will have at least heard of LCD. Good chance they have not heard of plasma screen tech. When most go to the store looking for a new TV, they probably say they just want a LCD flat screejust stock LCD as far as I know.n TV. Places like Walmart and Target just stock LCD as far as I know.

The consumer awareness is just not quite there with Plasma.
post #77 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby1015 View Post

Anyone who's considering to buy the es800 led might want to check out the new review on cnet. Panasonic vt50 advantages: Better black level, shadow detail, contrast, picture uniformity, viewing angle, color accuracy, and according to David Katzmier it handles reflections better because of Samsungs clear coat screen. Samsung es8000 advantages: it is brighter.......ummmmmm.......oh! It has voice and gesture control that don't work for ****! and........oh yeah a slim bezel. Its quite the compelling comparison. In all seriousness i sell tv's and these two tv's sit right next to each other on my sales floor. In most cases ,especially because the lighting is dimmed down a little, the vt50 makes the es8000 look broken. If i put a blu ray demo on with dark high contrast scenes even Stevie Wonder could see the vt50 looks better.

Don't try to hide the bias eh? wink.gif
post #78 of 103
Just keepin it real! Lol
post #79 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

If an oversaturated picture is of ones liking, get a back lit LED panel.
I know at least a few people that run their LCD TV's in basically "Torch" mode. THey say they like their picture real bright. You are correct their sir.
Sort of hard to believe you like plasma.

Also people who like torch mode NEVER watch their LCD TV in a darkroom.
For those of us who like a dimly lit or dark room plasma is a must.
post #80 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

My opinion on LCD vs Plasma is that people know LCD. Heck, your phone, computer screen, tablet, MP3 player, phone, etc have LCD screen. You could walk up to the most tech illeterate person and they will have at least heard of LCD. Good chance they have not heard of plasma screen tech. When most go to the store looking for a new TV, they probably say they just want a LCD flat screejust stock LCD as far as I know.n TV. Places like Walmart and Target just stock LCD as far as I know.
The consumer awareness is just not quite there with Plasma.
Could've sworn I saw at least a couple of Plasmas on display on the last visit to Walmart.
post #81 of 103
What i think he is saying is most people don't realize how much better plasma is than LCD. I didn't either until i owned one. Most people buy TV's based on what they see at the store. And under the bright lights on the sales floor, LCD will always be prefered by the average consumer (who doesn't really know anything about good PQ or even really care in most cases). Most people set up their TV plug it in and say wow it looks great, w/o even realizing how much better it could look. OTB they are usually set to "torch" mode which then leads people to believe thats what they are supposed to look like...moths to a flame.

I can't believe people are willing to pay more money for LCD/LED's over plasma's and yet in most cases get inferior performance. Plasma's makes up only about 10% of total TV sales. If all stores had their TV's set up in more controlled light environments (closer to most peoples actual veiwing conditions), sales figures would be the other way around. But I am really not complaining because that would also drive up the price of plasma's. I like the fact that i can have the best TV available and yet i spent the same or less than my neighbor did on his average LED.wink.gif
post #82 of 103
Of course. I was only taking umbrage with the comment about Walmart not even stocking Plasma. I don't think that statement is accurate. If it is, I imagine it's a relatively recent development.
post #83 of 103
I actually go to WalMart every once in a while (they usually have the best prices on BDs) and always check out their tv selection out of curiousity. Can't remember a single time they didn't have at least 2 or 3 low-end plasmas on display.

I sell tvs (not at WalMart) and while most customers are anti-plasma because their cousin's hairdresser's mechanic bought one of those Haiers 7 years ago and it was crap, those who have actually owned one themselves purchased in the last 4 or 5 years are very happy with them.

We've got a couple of UNxxES8000s on display and they do what samsung leds have always done very well--scorch your eyeballs, look futuristic, and have lots of new features that don't really work very well. They can be tamed to put out a very nice picture, but no nicer than a comparably sized Sharp led that costs a thousand or more less (but lacks Dance/Dance controls).
post #84 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Of course. I was only taking umbrage with the comment about Walmart not even stocking Plasma. I don't think that statement is accurate. If it is, I imagine it's a relatively recent development.

A year or two ago my local Walmart had a low end Panasonic Plasma and an RCA Plasma on display (i seem to remember they were both under $500). A few months ago they had a 42" Panasonic X5 model on display.
post #85 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

For some reason, hockey is a nightmare on Plasma's. Not looked at hockey on my new Sammy PN60E7000 yet. Not a real hockey nut though and hockey is now in the off season.
Guess I will find out if hockey really is the "Hockey Horror Picture Show". biggrin.gif

Hockey looks great on my GT50 plasma. Great motion. Nice bright whites with NO fluctuating brightness. Although I will say I returned a E8000 plasma because of fluctuating brightness during hockey.
post #86 of 103
Ditto on my ST30, motion is superb on all the plasmas I've owned. That is why it is considered an inherant strength. Curious tho whether the OP pulled the trigger on the VT50 and what does he think ? smile.gif
post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Ditto on my ST30, motion is superb on all the plasmas I've owned. That is why it is considered an inherant strength. Curious tho whether the OP pulled the trigger on the VT50 and what does he think ? smile.gif

he did, and his initial reaction was mixed. he never posted back about what he ultimately thought/decided...?
post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

he did, and his initial reaction was mixed. he never posted back about what he ultimately thought/decided...?

Must have missed that post, of well the side conversation has been interesting to say the least.
post #89 of 103
WOW .... just had to read through this thread that was ruined by SO much pathetic nonsense!

I feel sorry for the OP ... he wanted to get some feedback on which to go with, not a my johnson is bigger then your johnson fight.

I myself am down to these 2 TV's to buy and when I saw this thread I thought "Yes" I will get great answers here.

Guess I will move on after wasting my time reading all of this. LOL

Though I did get some good info in between all the idiotic madness.

Thanks to those who really contributed some good info here ... my hunt for more info in this subject continues ............
post #90 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

WOW .... just had to read through this thread that was ruined by SO much pathetic nonsense!
I feel sorry for the OP ... he wanted to get some feedback on which to go with, not a my johnson is bigger then your johnson fight.
I myself am down to these 2 TV's to buy and when I saw this thread I thought "Yes" I will get great answers here.
Guess I will move on after wasting my time reading all of this. LOL
Though I did get some good info in between all the idiotic madness.
Thanks to those who really contributed some good info here ... my hunt for more info in this subject continues ............

Your post really added to the thread also.

Great job!cool.gif
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