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The Terminator New Release - Page 20

post #571 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-21 View Post

Also note that both eyes through the glasses are most visible in the Image Entertainment DVD & the new remastered Blu-Ray which is yet another similarity they both have in common compared to the other darkened versions.

Yes, I was quite surprised to be able to partly see the eyes through the sunglasses and something swinging between Arnolds legs as he walks towards the punks at the beginning in the remastered Bluray: both things I have never seen before in the Terminator video releases and I don't think we were ever meant to see. That suggests that the grading hasn't been faithful to the original cinema intent, where I'm sure they wanted them obscured.
post #572 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Yes, I was quite surprised to be able to partly see the eyes through the sunglasses and something swinging between Arnolds legs as he walks towards the punks at the beginning in the remastered Bluray: both things I have never seen before in the Terminator video releases and I don't think we were ever meant to see. That suggests that the grading hasn't been faithful to the original cinema intent, where I'm sure they wanted them obscured.
Arnold has always been partially exposed in that scene. It was evident even on VHS and old HBO showings back in the day.
post #573 of 640
Yeah Arnold's dick was visible in theaters and even on TV. I know a few gay friends who freeze framed that moment and pushed up the luminosity on their sets LOL
post #574 of 640
Done w/the caps on this thread!
Got both releases now...
and the 1st release was never as "pink" as shown here (detail was all so better/esp hair) & the 2nd [remastered] is no were near as Blu (teal).
On the detail issue, the thing that really jumps out, too me, on these caps is now more of a contrast issue between the two releases.
[the new release may indeed have a bit more detail/however when you lOOk at the detail of Arnie's face in the 1st closeup the fact that the new transfer is darker stands out more than additional wrinkles or deeper pores]
Colors on the 2013 aren't CZY & the clean-up done is admirable.
Still miss the OST...
yet can now enjoy, as well as recommend, the "new"* release.
i'll still watch both tho!

Appreciate the caps here; just IMO these caps greatly exaggerated the diff between the two releases.
i'm not completely off caps now, butt i'm GREATLY even MORE skeptical!

* not the 2012 which is the same as the previous release (some as getting confused by the newer cover/just lOOk for DTS)
post #575 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

500
600

Confirmed by the guy who designed the steelbook to have the new transfer, could contain the new extras finished years ago by Van Ling:

Extras from Columbia house listing
Missing is the already recorded commentary track. The Uk version of the film is now a 15 rating, so the new extras look to be what has bumped it back up to 18.



This is the first UK HD release of the first movie, the US get a new set:
http://www.columbiahouse.com/pages/nm/product/productDetail.jsp?skuId=1076275435&ds=8
Details to be updated

Just picked this up now from a local JB and the front cover is....not either of these above, rather a rip off of the cover art used on the T2 Skynet Edition. It is the same exposed endo with one red eye brighter than the other WTF?

Anyway, here is hoping this transfer is as special as I have read about.
post #576 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

500
600

Confirmed by the guy who designed the steelbook to have the new transfer, could contain the new extras finished years ago by Van Ling:

Extras from Columbia house listing
Missing is the already recorded commentary track. The Uk version of the film is now a 15 rating, so the new extras look to be what has bumped it back up to 18.



This is the first UK HD release of the first movie, the US get a new set:
http://www.columbiahouse.com/pages/nm/product/productDetail.jsp?skuId=1076275435&ds=8
Details to be updated

Just picked this up now from a local JB and the front cover is....not either of these above, rather a rip off of the cover art used on the T2 Skynet Edition. It is the same exposed endo with one red eye brighter than the other WTF?

Anyway, here is hoping this transfer is as special as I have read about.
post #577 of 640
Strange, they had T1 at Target with that second cover for $7.50, so I picked it up.

When I got it home, I checked to be sure it was the remaster and it is the older crappy original release (LPCM soundtrack). It will be returned unopened I guess.

Mind what you pick up at the store lesson for me.
post #578 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Strange, they had T1 at Target with that second cover for $7.50, so I picked it up.

When I got it home, I checked to be sure it was the remaster and it is the older crappy original release (LPCM soundtrack). It will be returned unopened I guess.

Mind what you pick up at the store lesson for me.
Did they get a hold of some old stock. My copy that I from got Amazon awhile back has a cover that looks like the black steelbook in the photo above but in a blue case. There is a sticker on the front that says it is newly remastered and the back cover shows DTS Master Audio. I paid about nine dollars for it. Can you return the disc to Target, you should at least get store credit for it.
post #579 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Did they get a hold of some old stock. My copy that I from got Amazon awhile back has a cover that looks like the black steelbook in the photo above but in a blue case. There is a sticker on the front that says it is newly remastered and the back cover shows DTS Master Audio. I paid about nine dollars for it. Can you return the disc to Target, you should at least get store credit for it.

I think Target made some deal to buy up the old stock with a new cover.
I say that because I haven't seen any other store, what few there are, to have an old master Terminator with the new cover.
They pulled a Warner!

Anyway, I almost got caught by this also. Now, I know to check, if it says PCM audio, stay away (unless you want the last remaster).
post #580 of 640
Got to watch my copy tonight. Fox/MGM UA with DTS Master Audio, so hopefully that is the right transfer. The Transfer is OK, but not as good as ALIENS. it is certainly the best I've seen THE TERMINATOR on any video format. There was some odd stuff going on with bright lights like the police lights and even a few flashes of lasers from the future sequences where the image around the lights seems to solarize like you might see on an older plasma. I own a BenQ W6000 and it is fully calibrated. Over all the image was nice and at times a touch grainy in places. HD brings out some good detail and also shows the limits of makeup and SPF from 1984.

The soundtrack is the same GR mix we got on DVD. Well worth the price paid for this BD.
post #581 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Did they get a hold of some old stock. My copy that I from got Amazon awhile back has a cover that looks like the black steelbook in the photo above but in a blue case. There is a sticker on the front that says it is newly remastered and the back cover shows DTS Master Audio. I paid about nine dollars for it. Can you return the disc to Target, you should at least get store credit for it.

Doug has probably assessed it accurately. Target will take theirs back, it is unopened. I ordered the legitimate one from Amazon and now have the same version as you.
post #582 of 640
Blu-ray just came in today and I have to say screenshots don't do this Blu-ray justice. I was so impressed with this remaster. I did not find the new color timing distracting at all and I never once thought the movie looked off in any way. Overall detail surpassed my expectations for a film shot on a humble budget in the 1980's. Now, if only Terminator 2 was shown the same kind of love.
post #583 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

Blu-ray just came in today and I have to say screenshots don't do this Blu-ray justice. I was so impressed with this remaster. I did not find the new color timing distracting at all and I never once thought the movie looked off in any way. Overall detail surpassed my expectations for a film shot on a humble budget in the 1980's. Now, if only Terminator 2 was shown the same kind of love.

Many of us also feel this way. It is a stunning remaster and the color timing fits the tone of the film perfectly imo.
post #584 of 640
Terminator-- check

Total Recall-- check

Robocop-- any news on this? This is another from the same era that needs a remaster.
post #585 of 640
I kinda like the super grainy and gritty look of the current BD. I would happily take a whole new transfer though.
post #586 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by khronikos View Post

Many of us also feel this way. It is a stunning remaster and the color timing fits the tone of the film perfectly imo.

If they dick around with T2's color timing and add the modern teal and amber push, they'll screw up the lovely steel blue color palette that DP Adam Greenberg created... with physical lighting rigs and film stock choices, not digital DI's. Cameron has stated in audio commentaries that he loved the look of T2 and gushed about Adam's cinematography, especially the night shots.

Adam Greenberg MUST be a direct supervisor for any new work done on T2!!!!!!
post #587 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

If they dick around with T2's color timing and add the modern teal and amber push, they'll screw up the lovely steel blue color palette that DP Adam Greenberg created... with physical lighting rigs and film stock choices, not digital DI's.

Greenberg MUST be a direct supervisor for any new work done on T2!!!!!!

Agreed.
post #588 of 640
I know some people don't want to hear it but T2, like many pre-DI films, has quite a bit of teal here and there in the original theatrical prints (which no one was paying any attention to before this ridiculous witch hunt, of course) and I certainly hope any remaster reflects that.
Edited by 42041 - 7/22/13 at 4:33pm
post #589 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Terminator-- check

Total Recall-- check

Robocop-- any news on this? This is another from the same era that needs a remaster.

Hopefully something will be announced soon since the remake is coming out in February.
post #590 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I know some people don't want to hear it but T2, like many pre-DI films, has quite a bit of teal here and there in the original theatrical prints (which no one was paying any attention to before this ridiculous witch hunt, of course) and I certainly hope any remaster reflects that.

Teal is a different shade than electric/steel blue. The latter, along with the dusty browns of the desert, is the color timing for T2, the former is the more modern digital color timing look.
post #591 of 640
Well, that's what I'm saying: steely blue is not the whole story. I saw a good-quality original 35mm print of T2 last year and was actively on the lookout for the kind of things I knew the would-be internet color experts would nitpick. Now all the day exterior stuff is very warm-toned, but the night stuff varies. In some scenes, like the chase sequences in the second half of the film, it's a consistent steely blue. In other scenes, mostly in the first half of the film, the color timing varies from blue to a very distinct teal color. In particular, the scenes at the Cyberdyne offices are loaded with teal. Not steely blue, not green, teal. The day interiors at the mental hospital also tend to have a subtle greenish tinge. Nothing new for Adam Greenberg as a DP, Near Dark is another film I've seen on an original release print recently that's chock full of the color to a greater extent than either T2 or this Terminator remaster, created by nothing but lights and chemistry. It's too bad that older films are becoming harder to see in their analog form, and fighting the internet "films were never teal before digital grading" bunk is a losing battle, and I can only hope studios ignore the sad kangaroo court that these HT forums have become.
post #592 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Well, that's what I'm saying: steely blue is not the whole story. I saw a good-quality original 35mm print of T2 last year and was actively on the lookout for the kind of things I knew the would-be internet color experts would nitpick. Now all the day exterior stuff is very warm-toned, but the night stuff varies. In some scenes, like the chase sequences in the second half of the film, it's a consistent steely blue. In other scenes, mostly in the first half of the film, the color timing varies from blue to a very distinct teal color. In particular, the scenes at the Cyberdyne offices are loaded with teal. Not steely blue, not green, teal. The day interiors at the mental hospital also tend to have a subtle greenish tinge. Nothing new for Adam Greenberg as a DP, Near Dark is another film I've seen on an original release print recently that's chock full of the color to a greater extent than either T2 or this Terminator remaster, created by nothing but lights and chemistry. It's too bad that older films are becoming harder to see in their analog form, and fighting the internet "films were never teal before digital grading" bunk is a losing battle, and I can only hope studios ignore the sad kangaroo court that these HT forums have become.

Even if there was teal... it's not teal to the extent that they use now. It's HEAVILY used and OVER used. To me, it looks kinda fugly and quite artificial and digital.
post #593 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Well, that's what I'm saying: steely blue is not the whole story. I saw a good-quality original 35mm print of T2 last year and was actively on the lookout for the kind of things I knew the would-be internet color experts would nitpick. Now all the day exterior stuff is very warm-toned, but the night stuff varies. In some scenes, like the chase sequences in the second half of the film, it's a consistent steely blue. In other scenes, mostly in the first half of the film, the color timing varies from blue to a very distinct teal color. In particular, the scenes at the Cyberdyne offices are loaded with teal. Not steely blue, not green, teal. The day interiors at the mental hospital also tend to have a subtle greenish tinge. Nothing new for Adam Greenberg as a DP, Near Dark is another film I've seen on an original release print recently that's chock full of the color to a greater extent than either T2 or this Terminator remaster, created by nothing but lights and chemistry. It's too bad that older films are becoming harder to see in their analog form, and fighting the internet "films were never teal before digital grading" bunk is a losing battle, and I can only hope studios ignore the sad kangaroo court that these HT forums have become.

It's the other way around, the internet is full of 'that was how the original film looked' with only a tiny few correctly calling it bunk. Just because somebody slapped it on a BD does not make it the original color grading for catalog titles. If that were true then both Terminator BDs would have the exact same color grading as would Titanic as would LOTR as would Gladiator as would French Connection as would Spiderman 2 as would Ghost Busters (need I mention more?) instead of being wildly different.
Digital color grading is far more an art then a science as it is practiced now.
post #594 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Just because somebody slapped it on a BD does not make it the original color grading for catalog titles.
Who said it was? That's the problem: most catalog blu's have crap colors. So do most DVDs. When I see some new movie on a digital projector, it usually looks exactly the same on my home display, yet when I see some older print of a photochemical color film, it's a rare treat indeed when it actually looks like whatever home video products are out there. But some folks will hold some crummy old transfers as the holy grail of color accuracy, like botched color (either revisionism or any number of reasons) is a recent development. If someone's claiming the color timing on some movie is inaccurate, I hope it's not unreasonable to expect them to have actually seen the film (with a similarly discerning eye) as it was originally exhibited within the timespan of human visual memory...
post #595 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Who said it was? That's the problem: most catalog blu's have crap colors. So do most DVDs. When I see some new movie on a digital projector, it usually looks exactly the same on my home display, yet when I see some older print of a photochemical color film, it's a rare treat indeed when it actually looks like whatever home video products are out there. But some folks will hold some crummy old transfers as the holy grail of color accuracy, like botched color (either revisionism or any number of reasons) is a recent development. If someone's claiming the color timing on some movie is inaccurate, I hope it's not unreasonable to expect them to have actually seen the film (with a similarly discerning eye) as it was originally exhibited within the timespan of human visual memory...
For years directors have made films with unrealistic color pallets even going back into technicolor era. Whose is to say what color accuracy is in those cases. Basically my experience is the same as yours and I agree with you.
post #596 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Well, that's what I'm saying: steely blue is not the whole story. I saw a good-quality original 35mm print of T2 last year and was actively on the lookout for the kind of things I knew the would-be internet color experts would nitpick. Now all the day exterior stuff is very warm-toned, but the night stuff varies. In some scenes, like the chase sequences in the second half of the film, it's a consistent steely blue. In other scenes, mostly in the first half of the film, the color timing varies from blue to a very distinct teal color. In particular, the scenes at the Cyberdyne offices are loaded with teal. Not steely blue, not green, teal. The day interiors at the mental hospital also tend to have a subtle greenish tinge. Nothing new for Adam Greenberg as a DP, Near Dark is another film I've seen on an original release print recently that's chock full of the color to a greater extent than either T2 or this Terminator remaster, created by nothing but lights and chemistry. It's too bad that older films are becoming harder to see in their analog form, and fighting the internet "films were never teal before digital grading" bunk is a losing battle, and I can only hope studios ignore the sad kangaroo court that these HT forums have become.
I do remember the look of the film changing depending if it was outdoors during the day, indoors during the day and the night time where ever they were.
I put it to limits of film technology and some cases the inclusion of the special effects at the time. You can also see this on the Blu ray which comes to looking a lot more like the film then some people would care to admit.
post #597 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

It's too bad that older films are becoming harder to see in their analog form, and fighting the internet "films were never teal before digital grading" bunk is a losing battle,

Harder to see in their original analog form. Impossible to see in their original analog form projected through a lamp that the vintage prints were actually timed for, rather than a modern Xenon lamp which has a completely different color temperature and will result in an image that is not representative of what the print looked like during original release.
post #598 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

It's been the same since the DVD. When I reviewed that disc back in the day, I specifically noted that a lot of the musical score was shifted to the surround speakers for no reason.

Had to re-setup my system this weekend and gave both of these a spin. Looks like you may be right, the DVD also has the 'half here, half there' sound design. Guess i did not notice it before but it seems so much more pronounced on the blu ray.

It is kind of interesting though...you realize first hand that no matter how many discrete channels are created and what kind of AVR/speakers you have, if the sound design sucks, then nothing will help.

I dunno, starting to feel irritated about this. This may be the first blu ray purchase that I am genuinely disappointed in - to the point I may prefer using just my TV speakers eek.gif Now im curious to see if Predator and Spartacus are really as bad as everyone says they were !! biggrin.gif

Maybe Terminator is not Jaws as far as Movie History, but it sure would have been great if this release was modeled after that one.
post #599 of 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by huskie2000 View Post

Had to re-setup my system this weekend and gave both of these a spin. Looks like you may be right, the DVD also has the 'half here, half there' sound design. Guess i did not notice it before but it seems so much more pronounced on the blu ray.

It is kind of interesting though...you realize first hand that no matter how many discrete channels are created and what kind of AVR/speakers you have, if the sound design sucks, then nothing will help.

I dunno, starting to feel irritated about this. This may be the first blu ray purchase that I am genuinely disappointed in - to the point I may prefer using just my TV speakers eek.gif Now im curious to see if Predator and Spartacus are really as bad as everyone says they were !! biggrin.gif

Maybe Terminator is not Jaws as far as Movie History, but it sure would have been great if this release was modeled after that one.

Trouble is, Gary Rydstrom did The Terminator's 5.1 EX (5.1 plus matrixed mono back surround fill) remix at the behest of Cameron years ago. He wanted T2 and T1 to have a similar sound design (Rydstrom also mixed T2 for its theatrical run and for the extended director's cut first shown on Laserdisc in the 90's). Rydstrom was again tapped to remix T2 into 5.1 EX so that home theater viewers could experience more closely the Cinema Digital Sound track, a precursor to theatrical Dolby Digital and DTS, created for T2's initial run (but few theaters ever installed the system because it had no optical track backup). This time, Rydstrom took advantage of the discrete, split surround channels now available in the theater and the home by Dolby Digital and DTS encoding. If you listen carefully, all the future battle flash-forwards in The Terminator remix were from T2's sound library.

The main beef I have with the remix is that Arnold's gun sounds like an electronic squeak toy. If Rydstrom had found a library effect that matched the gun used (or made a new recording) and fixed just this one irritant, I could have lived with it.

In fact, I would rather they both received brand new, object-oriented mixes that REALLY took advantage of today's technology. They can always leave the original mono and stereo tracks for film connoisseurs.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 7/28/13 at 2:22pm
post #600 of 640
I just got done watching this on hi-fi headphones with a nice Denon and I did not hear any squeak toy noises. I honestly could barely tell the difference between any other random 80s action flick much less an early one. The hyperbole that keeps going in this thread is purely amazing and entertaining though. I won't say the multichannel is that great when I listened to that but then again I didn't expect it to be either. This is a low budget film. It now looks gorgeous and sounds pretty decent too.

Also, the differences between 24/48 and 24/96 are almost imperceptible to the human ear. I'm not even sure my golden ears after serious back to back sessions can tell the difference even when I convince myself I'm not in denial. I still love me some 24/96.

Anyway, it seems people are just way too hung up on this. The sound is the best I have ever heard it on this release. I just don't expect that much from an early 80s release with some addons throughout the years.

I mean what you are saying about a new mix is akin to them spending another million dollars on a film they quite honestly don't even care about from a financial perspective. We were lucky to get this new bluray imo. I would simply love if all blurays got this much attention. Not happening though.
Edited by khronikos - 7/30/13 at 6:52am
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